Ok I have done a search of old forums and have only gotten mad and confused. When someone asked a question like what is the difference between Model 300, and model 500 on a website that is suppose to be devoted to collecting handcuffs (.org not .com) they should not get a smart A** answer like ( I believe it's 200 )
And the confusing part is... no one really seams to know, even Peter Gill, at Peerless. In my first letter to him about the subject I get an answer of:
The major difference between the 300 series and the 500 series is:
500 series has a more square shaped swivel. The Model 300 is more rounded.
500 series has the text laser etched. The Model 300 has the text stamped into the metal.
Peter B. Gill
Peerless Handcuff Company
Ok, my problem with that is, I have 5 pairs of what I believe to be model 500 cuffs, not one of them is laser etched. And all have a very round swivel.
Some guy on this site said that some model 300 cuffs don't have the Pin for the Ratchet paw showing, but he didn't say all. In fact he said that some model 300's do have the pin showing.
Then in my second letter to Peter Gill I get this response:
In actuality a small percentage of Model 500 were stamped most were laser etched. If the cuff is marked with Model 500 then it is a Model 500. If the cuff is marked Model 300 then it is a Model 300.
None of my model 500 or what ever the heck they are, are marked with model # not one. I have only seen one model 500 marked model 500; my neighbor bought it off Ebay. And not all of my supposed model 500's look the same.
On one, it has the Registered Trade mark on them that you usually only see on the old model 1915's the round circle with what seems like three rotating tails inside. It had the peerless name and city stamped on the bow of both cuffs, and state is marked MASS.
Two others I have lack the registered trade mark, and have the name, city and state only on one bow of one cuff, the other cuff has no markings at all that would let you know it was peerless. It dose have a SN# but no other markings, like the first. State marked MA. One nickel one Black
The next pair has the Name city and state marked on the bow of both cuffs, once again no trade mark, and is Mass for the state.
But keep in mind all of these have exposed pins for the Ratchet Paw, So What do I have, in my Mind they have always been model 500's, But since (most model 500's were laser etched, then these all must be rare) and here I thought they were all pretty common.
Then I saw a pair on ebay, being sold as model 300's but has a pin showing for the ratchet paw, so since it was a poor picture I asked the guy, how do you know these are model 300's, he replies because thats what they are stamped, it says 300 on them! So is anyone out there got the FULL SCOOP on this whole deal, or is the next answer I'm going to get the difference is 200, how childish is that.
I really would like to be able to get the correct answer, or correct answers, I know that there were some changes within models, that might make it hard for there to be just on correct answer, but I want to complete my collecting. I need to know how many different styles of 300s were there, how to tell the difference between them, and how to tell the difference between model 300, and model 500. Since I dont think I have ever seen a pair of 300s.
Part of the problem is what you are seeking may not exist. For especially older cuffs there are some records,but for newer cuffs there are fewer and some of the experts might know a few of the design features there's not to my knowledge a comprehensive list of modern cuffs.There literally are a ton of variations even within model lines some of which many people here might be able to tell you about, but if you're looking for a checklist so you can play got it got it got it need it there isnt one I know of that is anywhere near complete. Some folks have put together cdroms with images and journals, but such would be limited to their knowledge, and there will always be variations they may not know about.
Peerless 300 vs. 500
March 23 2006, 12:15 AM
Edri is quite correct. Each different model of handcuffs, such as Peerless, can have a number of "variations" within that same model, for whatever the reason. There is no detailed guide book for the modern Peerless and S&W handcuffs models and their variations...so it is no wonder you are confused and frustrated.
Based on the Peerless #300 & #500 models that I have in front of me, these are the characteristics that I see:
PEERLESS #300: stamped "Model 300" on the front cheek-plate of right cuff; Has round dimples; Serial number on left cuff -between keyhole and chain--starting with a "#" symbol. No other markings on the left cuff, aside from the serial number. The front and back of the right cheek-plate also has the name of company and patent numbers.
PEERLESS #500: "Made In U.S.A. Patented"...etched on the front cheek-plate of right cuff; "Model 500" on right cuff - between keyhole and chain; Serial number on left cuff - between keyhole and chain - with NO "#" symbol; Left cuff's front cheek-plates etched: "Peerless Handcuff Company Springfield, MA"; Has round dimples. No markings at all on the rear of either cuffs.
The model #300 is thinner than the #500, and has a definite lightness to them in comparison.
And just to confuse you more, I also have a modern Peerless with NO MODEL # ON IT - but it has markings/words/patents on both the Front AND Back of BOTH cheek-plates; serial number on left cuff by the chain.
Those are the facts, based on the cuffs in MY collection. I hope that it helps a little. What does it all mean?...I'll that for another collector;-)
March 23 2006, 2:01 AM
FOR DECADES, Peerless had been making their modern barrel-key handcuffs... WITHOUT any model # on the cuffs. Hence, the confusion that still exists today.
Their "Model 300 series" handcuffs
(introduced in the late 80's?? to mid-90's)
were the FIRST Peerless cuffs marked with a model number. Up until then, us collectors had to live with generic names such as "New Model"; "Latest Model"; "3rd model", etc.
March 23 2006, 2:08 AM
I can appreciate an honest answer. (Something other than a joke, after all this is a site about learning and collecting handcuffs right?)
It just seems like the difference between model 300 and 500 was so small, Even more small that the changes with-in the model line. There are some major changes in the 5 pairs of cuffs I have which I believe with no doubt are model 500 cuffs. Take for example one of the cuffs I told you about (the pair with the registered trade mark) which has larger, yet round swivels, and all the other pairs have very small round swivels.
It would be much easier if the changes were bigger like with the model 400, or the models 600 & 700. I can fully understand the difference between Model 1, version one (model 1912) and model 1 version 2, the two links of chain vs. one link. Both use the key turned backwards to double lock. Then in Model 2 (1915) they used the push pin design we see today. Ok, thats not hard to understand. It would be a lot easier if they stuck with the model 400, and not tried to cover there ass by bringing back the model 300 with a new name. Or simply made some actual changes, but thats just my opinion.
I started collecting the peerless when i got a pair of Model 1 version 1, and because of there history (being the first to produce the swing thru design). I also thought it would be much easyier than trying to tell the differnce between a real or fake Towers handcuffs, or the value of a Bean. You guys that get into thoughs kind of cuffs have to really know your stuff.
And for the most part collecting American swing thru cuffs has been very easy, there is a lot of information on them, I have yet to find a fake (but I know they are out there). And besides this whole 300 vs. 500 thing I got it all figured out.
I have to say though if it wasn't for this site I'd be lost I got a lot of information off this site, Although I would like to see some more models added the Handcuffs list with all the pictures, (how do we go about getting that done??) When it comes to American swing thru design I have kind of out grown this site. I have models that this site dont have pictures of. I think it would help future collectors if this was updated. (I know I know, most you guys can't stand Modern American cuffs, and by modern I mean less than 120 years old)
Anyway I want the thank all of you who took the time to try to help me over the years. Thanks James
Respond to Joseph Fox
March 23 2006, 2:22 AM
Ok Joseph Fox
So what your saying is the cuffs I have are not True model 500, or 300, Since these started in the 80's. What I have, which can date back to the 50's, are Just (barrel type) peerless cuffs. With design changes over the years. See I have yet to find a site, book, web page or person up untill now who could tell me this.
I just assumed that the first Barrel type handcuffs Peerless made was the model 300, and then it went on from there. So it's the area between the last Bit type cuff and the 1980's that I need to work on. I have alot of cuffs thru that time period but I need to do History checks on them thru Peter at Peerless and put the changes in design into a time frame, Then mabe I can answer my own question. Plus alot of others with the same confusion.
Thanks Joseph, your a big help.
March 23 2006, 9:00 AM
I strongly urge you to get a hold of a copy of "Handcuff Notebook" - which was a compliation of articles on handcuffs, written in the late 1950's by Dick Norman, published in the Locksmith Ledger trade magazine. In there are DETAILED descriptions of the various barrel-key Peerless cuffs of the time ("3rd model"; "New model"-w/ 3 variations), along with many swing-through models of other brands.
E-mail me if you can not locate this book. firstname.lastname@example.org
As to the reason why the photos on this site are not 100% complete - is because, if I'm not mistaken, the photos are of the personal restraint collection of this website's owner Joe Lauher...and NOT meant to represent ALL models & variations of any particular brand.
Re: Peerless model 300 vs 500
March 23 2006, 10:03 AM
I will add that the barrel key Peerless first shows up in ads in 1932. I have about 10 barrel key Peerless cuffs with different markings, in addition to the model 500 and newer.
Let us start a Peerless directory
March 23 2006, 10:55 AM
A few weeks ago I mentioned the need for a directory of modern cuffs. I think it is time to start. Since there appears to be lots of interest in Peerless cuffs perhaps we should begin with them. I would like to assemble a Peerless directory for the Handcuffs.Org website.
I can not do this alone because I do not have the required knowledge. My collection is not that complete either when it comes to the modern stuff. So I need your help.
The early model numbers listed in my gallery are not official Peerless numbers. They are the designations given to the early cuffs by Dick Norman. I don't know if Peerless ever gave them an "official" model number.
To get started I need to assemble the following for each model or significant variation.
Official Model number or (a designator we can agree on. Like the Dick Norman model numbers.)
Date of manufacture. List of markings on the cuff. Serial number range. and most important a good picture. When there are variations of the same "official" model we will have to come up with some way to number or designate them.
If you can help, then email me your information and pictures to my email@example.com email address. As I put together the web site I will include the names of all contributors and give proper credit all pictures to its owner. I do need pictures that belong to you. Please don't just take pictures from someone else's or some company's web site. You may not wish to give the exact serial number of your cuff, in such cases you can just "X" out the last two digits. so serial number 54321 would be listed as 543XX.
For each model I will select the best submitted picture for each model, but I have no problem with duplicates if they furnish additional information.
This will be a pretty big job. I would guess we will have well over 100 models and major variations before we are done. I think there are about 20 different models commercially available now.
If anyone has old Peerless catalogs or advertisements that would help us establish model numbers and dates please send a copy. That would be a great help.
I will post everything here on the Forum as it comes in. This weekend I will check out my own collection and take some new photos of my own stuff.
Let us catalog Peerless first. If the project turns out to be successful then we can move on to other companies.
Model 300 Variations
March 23 2006, 10:57 AM
From what I've been able to determine over the years, there were 5 variations of the Peerless 300 (excluding the alloy and thin model cuffs). It seems the changes came over time to reduce manufacturing costs.
So as not confuse with "left," "right,", etc., with the cuffs on the table, double bows at top, keyways facing out:
The serial number is always on the front left cuff between keyway and swivel, perpendicular to the swivel. All have a visible ratchet pin.
1) Original Version: Both front bows marked Peerless, with Mass. Both back bows marked with patent info. Logo on back right cuff. The original version is thicker and heavier (10.5 oz.) than all later versions (9.5 oz.) There is no ditch "dimple" on the exterior of the cuffs. In this version alone, the pawl dimple was oblong and set in place from the inside of the cuff body; on all later versions, they drilled a round hole through the cuff body and set the pin, leaving the appearance of a dimple on the cuff exterior. At the top of the ratchets, there was an anti-shim notch (an essential feature in the Wesson patent 1872857); this was discontinued on all later versions. The mechanism is also very stiff, having a heavy duty coil spring; you'll bruise a wrist if you try to "press" these in place.
2) Second Version: Peerless began cost cutting. Left front bow marked with patent info, right front bow marked Peerless, with Mass.; left back bow marked Peerless, with Mass., right back bow marked with patent info. Logo disappears, round ditch dimple shows up and ratchet anti-shim notch disappears. The body of the cuffs is slimmed down to produce the "10 oz." cuff (actually, 9.5 oz.) and the spring is lightened up with a few changes to internal mechanism.
3) Third Version: Peerless cut costs a bit more by reducing the stamping, with the right front stamped Peerless, with MA, the right back stamped with patent info. You'll also see that the stampings are much lighter than before; I've got one set in which the Springfield, MA is not present due to such a light stamping.
4) Fourth Version: with a million handcuffs produced, not wanting to have 7 digit serial numbers, they began sticking the # symbol in front of the 6 digit serial number and started renumbering. If you write Peerless about a cuff, be sure and tell them whether the # symbol is or is not present, since this distinguishes the older from the later ones.
5) Fifth Version: Peerless did away with stamping and went to laser etching (front of cuffs only) on all there cuffs. For the first time, a model number appears, Model 300 on the chain link, Model 301 on the hinged version. Also, at this time, they started putting a small indentation on the double-locking pin (on both the 300 and 301) and changed to a straight-sided swivel.
With the Model 500, from what I've been able to determine, they will always be laser etched, be marked "Model 500" and have the straight-sided swivels (again, reducing cost) with the indentation on the double-locking pin. The Model 500 also did away with the coil springs in favor of leaf springs and have a stiffer mechanism than the 300.
It seems Peerless never called the thing a "300" until after they started laser etching. Until then, from how the boxes were stamped and advertising materials, they simply called it "handcuffs" and added "hinged", "lightweight" and "alloy" for those other types, along with "nickel" and "blued" to distinguish among finishes. Hence, before that time, you'll see it referred to as the third model, from whence was derived the number 300 to distinguish it from the 301 hinged (the thin model and alloy model having been discontinued).
Not wanting to confuse you, but just so you'll be on the lookout, there might be two other variations, but I've never seen them. First, an "early" Third Version (with reduced stamping) with Mass. instead of MA. Second, a Fifth Version (with laser etching) having the old rounded swivels.
Re: Peerless model 300 vs 500
March 23 2006, 12:47 PM
As for the progression of the variations on Peerless handcuffs, I have an idea of things going on in the background, but have never gotten a confirmation or denial.
In the beginning and for several decades, it seems Peerless and Smith & Wesson had a very close and cordial relationship. James Gill bought the original 1912 Carney patent (1,017,955) on the swing through design. Great idea, but the lock mechanism was lousy, and Gill had no money to manufacture the things. This was coupled with the October 1915 lock mechanism patent (1,157,135) granted to Joseph Wesson/Edward Pomeroy (Pomeroy was a S&W employee), assigned to S&W, and the first model began to be produced, clearly stamped as being made by S&W perhaps in an effort to add to the credibility of the new design.
In November 1915, another lock mechanism patent (1,161,562) was granted to Joseph Wesson/Edward Pomeroy, but it was assigned not to S&W but to James Gill. It seems that Mr. Gill was only using the Peerless name as an assumed name and had not yet gotten the entity incorporated. The November 1915 patent mechanism was incorporated into the cuff, which became the Model 1, Version 2, and the S&W name stopped being put on the cuffs.
Elmer Neel comes along, and starts coughing out lock mechanism patents, all of which were assigned to Peerless (now incorporated), in particular patent 1,531,451 (granted March 31, 1925, it had been held up in the patent office for three years). You then got the Second Model, with the push pin; early production had three patent dates and a pat. pend. stamping; later ones had four patent dates.
In 1932, Harold Wesson and Edward Pomeroy got a patent (1,872,857) on what became the Third Model (later, model 300), which was assigned to Peerless. Now here's where it gets fuzzy. It seems that S&W was still manufacturing the handcuffs. To what extent this was done in partnership with Peerless, we'll probably never know. Both companies were privately owned (Peerless still is), so there were never any public filings regarding their operations. Additionally, during the 1990's while S&W was being sold and resold, they donated many of their business records to some university. That's why S&W is of no help on their handcuff history since they don't have the records any more.
During World War II, S&W made a lot of money, selling over a million of their Military & Police revolvers. After the war, sales dropped, so presumably handcuff production became more important to the company's bottom line. Sometime around 1950, it seems the cordial cooperation between Peerless and S&W ended. By this time, Peerless their own, independent factory, and S&W came out with their first handcuff, the Model 90. It seems this split coincides with the change and reduction of the stampings on Peerless cuffs, as well as the change in finish to a brighter, shinier nickel finish than before, presumably when the cuffs were still produced in conjunction with S&W. Additionally, with all the operative patents on the Peerless cuffs having expired, other companies starting in the 1950's began producing Peerless style cuffs, such as Colt; many of these are virtually direct copies or clones. (It seems Darley did a similar thing when the old 1912 and 1915 patents expired).
One curious thing about Peerless serial numbers. As far as I can tell, until Peerless came out, serial numbers were virtually nonexistant on handcuffs. It seems that S&W, being a firearms manufacturer, naturally started putting serial numbers on the cuffs as one of their standard operating procedures. However, there are examples of the First Model, Second Version that have no serial numbers. To me, in conjunction with the dropping of the S&W name from the cuffs, this suggests something happened at that time (management change? separate manufacturing facility?).
PEERLESS HISTORY FACTS
March 23 2006, 2:07 PM
RICHARD B & whomever else..... you got most of the history correct, but here is THE REST OF THE STORY !!!!
PEERLESS COMPANY was founded in 1914 by GILL............
SMITH & WESSON began manufacturing PEERLESS cuffs in 1921....what you say !! that can't be right as THEIR cuffs were in existence before that....... your right, but the cuffs BEFORE 1921 were manufactured by the BARNEY & BERRY SKATE CO.....THUS like business's of today, made by one company for another & yet having different names put on the product....yes, the B & B co. stamped the cuffs PEERLESS & SMITH & WESSON .... also just PEERLESS etc...................................
SMITH & WESSON made their OWN cuffs from 1921 until 1940, but in 1940 S&W STOPPED making cuffs & assigned the making of THEIR cuffs to BEMIS & CALL of SPRINGFIELD.....THIS ENABLED S&W to devote more time to make wapons for the war effort.......
in 1950 PEERLESS set up their own manufacturing plant to make cuffs.............
in 1952 the SMITH & WESSON cuff was reintroduced.......
now you have the rest of REAL facts......joe
And they swarm
March 23 2006, 2:38 PM
Boy did I stir up the bee's nest.
Ok it sounds like Richard B knows about the different Model's which I have the first three of, (probably more if I start pulling out boxes) And if you put the history knowledge of the two or three of you who have it all together, we could write a book on this, LOL.
This question has been asked so many times in the past and no one every seemed to really care, it's good to see that with my original letter, that I got so many responses.
So what I have is not model 500, but Model 3 or (300) as they were later called. And it's funny all but one of them the guy selling them to me told me they were model 500. I think that maybe half the problem. Guys are buying cuffs off sellers on Ebay who don't know the first thing about cuffs. And they are being told that what they are buying is model 500, so that leaves them to ask what the hell dose model 300 look like.
I thank each and every one of you who responded, and I agree that this site could use a section dedicated to Peerless cuffs, and more companies later down the road. With this design reaching its 100th Birthday many people are starting to collect the swing-Thru design.
And there is a lot of confusion when it comes to these cuffs. Take Colt for example. I know that they only made cuffs for a very short time in the early 70's. But dose anyone know how many different variations in design they made. I own two different ones. There is a third variation listed on this website, then if you go to Yosie's site there are two more. Thats 5 so far. 5 different cuff designs, ok so that leaves the question (when youre paying $150 and up per set of cuffs) which ones were the rarest? I mean after all you don't want to pay the highest dollar amount for the most common one's now do you?
But like the Man said let's start with Peerless, and then add other great companies as we go.
Thanks everyone, James B.
One more thing
March 23 2006, 2:47 PM
Ok, one more thing then i'll let someone else talk.
All the Model 3's I have, you can see the pin for the Ratchet Paw on all of them. So, is it only the one's that are marked MODEL 300 that hide these pins. Because with what all you guys told me these are all model 3 (300) but I keep geting told that this model didn't show the pin?
Anyway, I'll leave you with that final note and wait for your ever so Vast knowlage.
write a book?
March 23 2006, 7:52 PM
Hi James B, I would be thrilled if you would write a book on the Peerless based on the great replies and your own knowledge as above. Even Peerless could sell it at there site.
It would be nice to include photos so the subtle differences could be seen and noted.
great thread, think up another one....
Peerless Production Dates
March 23 2006, 10:25 PM
I have an early pair of Model 1915 Peerless cuffs. This model has the two link chain, the push pin double lock, but still uses the flat, solid tipped key. My cufff has a serial number of 28560. I wrote to Peerless and received a reply from Peter Gill. He advised their records only go back to serial number 31000 which was produced on June 26, 1924. Since my pair has a serial number of 28560, they guessed it was produced in late 1923 or early 1924.
I also have any early "pre model 300" Peerless cuff with a serial number of 205361. This the "heavy" version with the Springfileld Mass" address, a trademark/logo on the cuff and patent dates on both bows, etc. Peerless advised this cuff was manufactured on February 27, 1948.
I hope this information helps.
March 24 2006, 12:32 AM
Thanks for jogging my memory, and I realize an error in what I previously posted that has to do with patent dates as opposed to patent numbers.
You're right, the magic serial number for Peerless is 31000. Before that, no one knows. My guess is that when they went from the Model 1 (no push pin) to the Model 2 (with push pin) they did not restart the serial numbers. I've got a Model 1, second version (no push pin, two links, no S&W or pat. pend. stamps) with a serial number of 14538 and Peerless cannot give me any idea of when it was made, let alone the same type of cuffs, identical in all respects, but with no serial numbers. Similarly, they have no information on any of the first version of the Model 1 (with all the S&W stamps, single link, pat. pend. and such).
What does seem to be consistent is that on the Model 1, they used patent DATES. On the Model 2, they started using patent NUMBERS. At least that's all I've been able to gather together.
If you would, go back and look at your cuffs. If you have a push pin (a Model 2) with patent DATES as opposed to patent NUMBERS, then you've got another something to throw into the pot here.
peerless 300 etc
March 24 2006, 12:43 AM
why don't you NEWBIES just buy the booklet HANDCUFF NOTEBOOK ????? then you would have some answers & not be trying to give each other bad info.... i have several booklets in mint condition at $10. each plus $2. shipping.....joe
Re: Peerless model 300 vs 500
March 24 2006, 1:09 AM
The Handcuff Notebook in an wonderful work, but it is the begining of a work in progress. Little oddities pop up from time to time, and that's what makes collecting fun. Or used to be.
Reply : YOU NEWBIES !
March 24 2006, 2:36 AM
Ok lets read all the articles before posting a commit like that, not only are you insulting me but look who else you are insulting JOE LAUHER, the owner and creator of this site. Joe Lauher himself said that there needs to be info like that added to this site.
And as for this book, one, a book is only as good as it's author, Two just because something is written dose not make it so, three it was written HOW LONG AGO??
Ok, now don't get too upset. Now that I got that part out of the way, I will say that I should at least buy a copy and read it before I say anything more. After all this book good be the answer to all answers there ever was about handcuffs. However, this book only contains fact and knowledge, all of which could be added to this site, oh but what, then that would hurt your sales.
But, weather the book contains all this stuff and more, dose not make it any less necessary to have this information posted somewhere on this site. After all I will go back to my original posting that started it all, "This site is suppose to be a site about learning and collecting handcuffs, .ORG not .COM"
And no matter how good this guy was who wrote this book, there is still much, much more that he didn't write about that what he did.
But, like I said, I will buy the book and see for myself, but we still need to post all information with pictures of design changes on this site.
OH, dose this book contain High resolution color photos of all the different design changes made to all brands of swing thru cuffs up till, Oh lets say last year? And dose this book contain the average going rate paid for cuffs over the last year. Like a Blue Book for cuffs.
A Blue book for cuffs, now there is a subject thats bound to piss someone off. Many on this site say not only is there no such book, but that one can't be made. I beg to differ.
I bet everyone on this site can tell me what the make, model, and condition was for the last pair of cuffs they bought and how much they paid. And it isn't hard to watch all the cuffs that sell on places like ebay, and record how much they sell for. And it isn't hard to talk to people like Stan Willis and ask how much would you be able to get out of a pair of....?
Hell I just bought a pair of Peerless 400's off the guy; I paid between $170-$190 for the cuffs. And when I look for what this same model is being sold for on ebay and what others on this site are asking for this model, this seems like the right price for a really nice pair in good condition.
Now for all the simpletons, you take that price, put it at oh.... lets say 90% then come up with a price someone might pay for a pair that was in about 50% condition, that will be your bottom dollar price on some models. From there simple math could be used to price out a 100% including box price and you have a Blue Book that you can sell to millions of collectors around the world. I mean really, how do you think they come up with the Blue Books they have for guns. They start the year before and record the bottom dollar and top dollar paid, average it out, break it up into condition brackets and then publish a book and everyone thinks that book is GOD.
Anyway, my point is, there is a lot more that someone (I was going to say we, but since some people don't play nice) can print publish market or post on a site, this site, that would help collectors. This site is a great start, and Id love to help add to it, but I'm not going to buy every book there is out there for every type of handcuffs. This site will only work if we can all play nice and compile our knowledge and even your book Joe Tanner, onto this site and let this be the site of knowledge for all who seek it. I dare anyone who buys a book to share information contained in it with Mr. Lauher, so he can add that information about handcuffs to his site. This site is about sharing information, not about selling books. Thank you, Mr. Joe Lauher for your hard work and dedication to this site.
James David Brown
Tanner, are you nutz?
March 24 2006, 3:13 AM
Have you been drinking when you posted that BS info??? Where the hell did you get that load of crap is beyond us. You stated Smith was making their own cuffs from the 20's to the 40's. Ask Smith, they didn't make or offer any handcuffs after they ceased making them for Peerless. Yes, they did make them, for Gill and Peerless. Not some skate company exclusively or the Borden's soup can company nor the Fuller Brush company.
You have a lot of guts to tell the "newbies" to buy some ridiculous little book from you when you are slinging more bad info than anyone needs to read.
There are still people alive who worked and sold exclusively Smith & Wesson handcuffs and firearms. The info from them is a lot more dependable than some retired magicians leaflet.
BFW, you might also assist on this one about the Colt cuffs. To my knowledge, and Colt's information, they only made 2 versions of handcuffs. The center keyhole model, and the one with the keyway near the bottom of the cuff. Both were available in Nickle finish only.
But this is about Peerless, and they were never made by the Joe Namath Bananna Boat factory...... as others might suggest some things just as wrong.
OK about Them Colt's
March 24 2006, 3:36 AM
I have two pairs, with center key hole, one pair has a square dimple for the swing arm of the cuff, the other has the round dimple. Now the second model they made, (key hole to the right) same thing: I have seen a pair on this site with square dimple, and a pair on Yosie's site with round. Now although there may be only two models, there are different variations within thoughts models. And then there is the cuffs which they supposable made for the Army. That pair of cuffs which I have seen the cuffs look just like center key hole model with round dimple put the horse is in a different placement on the cuff.
Anyway, yes we are talking about Peerless here, and not that Banana Boat Company!
Please tell me if there is a book for these?
March 24 2006, 5:53 AM
If Smith and Wesson made handcuffs all through the 1920's and 1930's, as you so confidently state, THEN WHERE IN THE WORLD ARE THEY?????
Do not insult the Gill family with the untruth of Peerless products being made by a skate company. Your garbage citation is exactly that: GARBAGE.
March 24 2006, 7:34 AM
Let us calm down people.
Joe Tanner (Hi Joe) is one of our true experts and an old friend to many of us. Sometimes Joe gets excited and uses too many capital letters. But he knows a lot more than most of us. He is quite correct when he talks about S&W farming out the actual manufacturing of the cuffs to yet a third company.
As Joe Fox mentioned earlier The Handcuff Notebook is a collection of reprints of a series of articles by the famous Dick Norman. It is a great series of articles and has lots of info about Peerless cuffs prior to the mid 1950s. But it is also incomplete. Norman was writing for locksmiths, not collectors and had little concern with variations and such. He does provide a listing of serial numbers, but it is not clear if they are all correct. And of course the book does not cover the last 50 years.
You might notice that lots of us are named Joe, if you don't believe me ask Yossie Silverman.
Re: Peerless model 300 vs 500
March 24 2006, 8:01 AM
The most dangerous thing in collecting, of anything, is when you gain the knowledge to say: "I don't know."
To me, that is when possible knowledge evaporates. Those around me know more than I do, and I will let them indulge that fantasy.
Re: Peerless model 300 vs 500
March 24 2006, 9:37 AM
Words backed up by proof are hard to dispute. Magazine ads, invoices, newspaper articles of the day would help make a point.
peerless 300 etc
March 24 2006, 11:10 AM
well, goes to show you that some of you people are not to bright.... if you don't have the BEGINNING KNOWLEDGE correct, then what follows is more then likely WRONG !!!! but you go right ahead & be WRONG as i could care less....you Anonymous writers are by far the worst....YOU hide & just want to stir up trouble.....as well as YOU just make up a new email address to post something so that people don't know who you are......i have forgotten more about handcuffs & their history then you will ever begin to know... this is something that i really don't know as i have not been collecting the GARBAGE cuffs of the past several years, but the standard 10oz peerless is the really what some of you are calling the model 300 is it not....again, i do not know & i will state that fact.... i guess SOME of you NEWBIES know alot more then me about the OLD cuffs.... oh well, i can accept that.... NO BIGGEY........joe
peerless model 300
March 24 2006, 12:02 PM
JAMES D. BROWN: there has been ALOT of different subjects posted to this site.....YES, this site is about cuffs etc. etc. but i hate to disillusion you, but apparently you somehow have always managed to log onto this site in the MIDDLE as you apparently have never noticed what is at the top of the forum site.....WOW !! by golly, it is a BOOK that is FOR SALE..... oh !! maybe YOU should tell JOE to take it off.... i didn't think so !!! i mean no disrepect to any & all good people who are open to learn things, but YOU can take it how you want to.... joe
Re: Peerless model 300 vs 500
March 24 2006, 12:55 PM
I can't think of a better demonstration of a self righteos nitwit. Thank you Joe for demonstrating to everyone how to so amicably win friends and influence people. Time to go back to the dotor for you I'm afraid, the antipsycotics he's giving you arent working.
March 24 2006, 6:16 PM
I am locking this thread. We don't need any more yelling. My head is starting to hurt.
If you would like to post some legitimate comments or information on Peerless cuffs please start a new thread.