Buyers beware:

http://cgi.ebay.com/AUTHENTIC-handcuffs-w-key-Civil-War-1864-Anderson_W0QQitemZ320183793746QQihZ011QQcategoryZ103994QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And it just frustrates me that ebay makes it damn near impossible to report these people now with that new system of theirs. And we all know damn well that is not from the civil war era. Hell it was iron ore in the ground somewhere in the India or Pakistan when the the civil war was being fought.

Okay, great.

You don't have to play with their game.

As someone once noted here, the've got a hell of a deal on an authentic piece of ice from the iceberg that sunk the Titanic back in 1912.

It comes with a Certificate Of Authenticity and everything.

And Harry Houdini's next door neighbor signed it.

So, it must me true.

Drum roll please... the answer from the seller is....

I am selling these for a friend. His father collected military and early American pieces. They are authentic. I will be posting better photos.

- yeste

Hi Guys
I strongly agree that these Cuffs are most definately Bogus. I have performed Escapes at Andersonville on 2 occasions and am very familiar with the Civil War Museum there. There happens to be One pair of Tower Leg Irons in the entire Museum and part of a chain, that's it for restarints. They did'nt use a lot of restraints there as prisoners were basically thrown into the pit of the 4 walls. Anyone crossing the deadline was shot on sight. They did have stocks and a Pillory for punishment purposes. Not much call for handcuffs since anyone that ran met certain death in transport or otherwise. Sentry Dogs were in force as well.
If anyone is considering bidding on these particular cuffs I would contact the Andersonville Guild and start asking questions.
Salute!
Cindini
www.geocities.com/cindini_2000/escape.htm

I sent the seller the following email:

These cuffs are modern made in India or Pakistan. Many of these can be found on eBay with the same tag. All are modern made. I would be surprised if you get any bids, but if you do the buyer is getting cheated. These fakes sell around $20-30 and that is too much for their quality.

You should tell your friend and pull this item.


His reply was:

Thanks, I will check out handcuffs.org and then take them off ebay.

Hmmm.

Just do a little bit of basic history, boys and girls.

The name of the place was Camp Sumter, in Sumter County, Georgia. The adjoining prisoner of war place, horrible as it was, never had an official name. However, the closest railroad siding was in a little hamlet called "Andersonville." Hence, those sent to that awful place were said to be "sent to Andersonville." It was just a ways past Americus, Georgia, where former United States President Jimmy Carter came from.

And, keep your dates right. The American Civil War started, pretty much, about April 12, 1861, and rather much ended on April 9 of 1865 with Robert E. Lee's surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia to General Grant. To those in Texas, the War Between The States didn't reach its conclusion until June 19 of 1865, just shortly after the last recorded battle between Federal and Confederate forces (which ended in a Confederate victory) at the Battle of Palmetto Ranch.

With respect to Camp Sumter, it opened in 1863 and closed in 1864.

Accordingly, a Tower product in the "Andersonville" museum? I don't think so. Just like in an earlier thread here about Elias/Elijah Richards, and some museum that has an authentic Union Tower handcuff used to lock up John Brown in 1859. Anyone want to buy a rare photograph of George Washington, personally autographed by him with a ball point pen?

As for this eBay seller; well, I trust that seller is an honest person, and he/she seems to be relying on this Forum for an answer.

The item is a fake. The simple fact you have a tag that claims "Andersonville" means it's bulls**t. At the time, and in that place, the Confederacy did not even have enough funding to feed Federal prisoners, let alone lock them up in handcuffs or leg irons, nor waste the time making up little brass tags to put on the things. And if you want to go into details about how those prisoners were indeed treated and handled, go read the transcript of the trial of Henry Wirz, the commandant of Camp Sumter. What you will find in that is that the only mention of a restraint is that Wirz did order, from time to time, that escaped prisoners who were recaptured be "sent to the blacksmith to be put in a ball and chain."

Yet, all the facts aside, I am certainly not one to let the truth stand in the way of a good story. If someone wishes and wants enough, then no amount of hard facts will convince them otherwise.

Franklin
If you re-read my message you will not find where I said the Tower Leg Irons were actually "used" during Andersonville existence. These Irons were in the collection of a private collector that sold the collection "to" Andersonville village and is now called the "Drummer Boy Muesum".
I stated what the "only" restraint Items were inside the Museum. As for the History of the facility , Thanks for sharing that too. I have also written an article on it.

Saliute
Cindini

"The seller ended this listing early because of an error in the listing"

Looks like this seller is trying to do the correct thing. Too bad others have to make up stories (with a lot of thought) to sell their items. Too bad most of these creations are not true.

We all get taken now and again, but if you're going to collect you have to gain knowledge in the areas of interest. It is interesting how the collecting of cuffs can get you into history, metal working, etc.

Joe has done the community a great service by providing this Forum as a means to get and share information.

OK I get it, thanks for all of the information! I took it off ebay!

I'm wondering why someone singled out this one honest seller out of hundreds of dishonest ones? I think it is appropriate to mention an item on the forum to let others who read the forum know it is not what it is being sold as. I don't know that we can take it on ourselves to contact every seller and let him know he is selling junk, or that his story about a handcuff coming from Houdini is bogus, etc. It is also possible that you are opening yourself up to libel by what you say, even if you think it is the truth. I will email buyers I know if I see them bidding on something that I suspect is not as advertised, but it has to be their decision to bid or not to bid. When I first started on ebay I would email sellers and tell them their description was not accurate. I soon learned that all it did was get me a bunch of flack and wasted a lot of my time. Maybe you shouldn't be buying a "Civil war" handcuff if you don't know enough about what you are looking at. I've learned with ebay it is "buyer beware", and i've been stuck a few times myself.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Stan

Stan I agree with you, however most of the "junk" posted is at a much lower price and even if it is junk, the buyer is not getting badly burned. If this item was in the $20-30 price range, we would just laugh about it, but at $175 it would be a serious loss to the buyer. I doubt if this item would even sell, but at least the seller was honest about it.

I've also seen a lot of the reproduction cuffs sold as " autehntic civil war" in other very respected, high priced, legit auctions and by dealers at shows and at antique stores.

[IMG][/IMG]

> I'm wondering why someone singled out this one honest seller out of
> hundreds of dishonest ones?

In this case, it turned out all right, and we have been able to acknowledge the seller as having done the right thing. Attaboy, Mr. Oritz! So now, I guess it's newsworthy under the "Man bites dog" criterion.

Without a doubt, Mr./Mrs./Miss Ortiz is a good egg.

Beware of This Auction Folks. http://cgi.ebay.com/EARLY-CIVIL-WAR-SCREW-TYPE-HANDCUFFS_W0QQitemZ170173924331QQihZ007QQcategoryZ136QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem