Hi,

I'll point this question towards Joe L but anyone with info please feel free to pitch it in.

Joe I have a habit of rediscovering your original discoveries but I would just like to confirm some details regarding T&A Longmore.

I have 1 pair of Longmore cuffs and was doing a little research to see if anything new had turned up about this manufacturer.



Are you aware of their move from 62A Digbeth Street to 12A Lower Street sometime around 1865? They do seem to vanish after 1879 but a reference to felon’s irons is shown at that address. Is this old news ?







It may seem a trivial point but any new info all adds to the picture.

Thanks,

RMP(Mark)

Mark

I believe that they had the Lower Tower Street address even before the took over the handcuff business from Nichols. I think it is likely that they combined the two parts of the business everything back to one location. This is pure speculation.

What is clear is that even though the company seems to have been in the business for quite a few years, their cuffs are pretty rare. I think I have only heard of three including yours. Does anyone else have one?

My theory (also totally speculation) is that they only made a few cuffs under their own name. Instead they went back to using the Nichols trade name. I have a couple examples and have seen a couple more of Nichols cuffs that look rather different than most. They have a big large font Nichols name. And they don't look as ancient as other Nichols cuffs, which have the logo in a small font.

Joe

while your on this subject i have a pair i just got that have only a large N on each cuff & a 1 with a smaller plus sign with a tail on the bottom of it,that is also on both cuffsthat mark is about half way between screw lock keyway and swivel, the large "N" is about 1/4 of the way after the swivel to the end, also has a Y stamped on one end cap, do you think thay could be nichols?

I no knowledge of Nichols using just an "N" as a trademark.

Your other mark sounds like it might be a "broad arrow". Can you post a picture?

Joe

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT YET, but ebay still has the pic's
Item number: 220170790346

both have the same marking's as are in the two middle pic's,but only one has the "Y" on end cap like in bottom right pic if it were his 1st. pair i thought he might have just put an "N" , BUT i would think he would have put a J on end cap for james??

Hi LK,

Looking at the pictures of your cuffs on the ebay link you gave, the only thing I can offer you is that the 1 and the + sign is more than likely a number 14 with only a partical stamping of the number 4. It's a safe bet to assume that originally the key would have been stamped with the number 14 also.

Sorry I can't offer more help.

RMP(Mark)

1ST.thanks for responding, yes looking at them close up that could be a miss hit on the stamping, but both are the same and if it were a four he put them both real close to the 1. witch i can't see why because their is a lot of room left over to the right of the little symbil on both stampings! do your longmore's have any assembler's mark on the end caps? what about any other markings,also is the t.&a longmore stamped on both? i am curious as to your thought's on how & when stampings aquired, it's my feeling that the assembiler heated the area in a forge then stamped it while hot, pryer to assemling the swilvel anchor which was already assembled pryor to that with the swivel and both rings and the other anchor,a three piece opperation so to speak, your thought's?

LK,

T&A Longmore is stamped on only one cuff and apart from a series on //// marks stamped in a circular pattern around the base of the plug there are no other marking.

As for number stamping I'm certainly no expert. I've had another look at the ebay images of your cuffs and still feel that it's most likely to be a number 4. If both cuffs have the same miss stamping then more than likely the number punch itself was probably the cause.

I don't know at what stage of production the numbers would have been struck but I don't thing that the metal would need to be heated in order for the stamping to be done. I've always imagined that this would be the final stage so as not to waste time if something went wrong further down the manufacturing process.
As for spacing, the stamps could have been held together in some form of clamp to ensure even spacing but I think that wouldn't work as well on curved surface as it would on a flat one. More than likely who ever made the cuffs was just so used to doing it that it was second nature and if the number did strike very well it probably wasn't a big issue to him.
I think the theroy that the mark in the centre of the plug indicated which worker had actually made the cuffs is correct. Most likely they were paid on the quanity they produced and each worker would have his own stamp. Also any sub standard pairs could be traced back to an individual.

Joe L has writtern a wonderful book on British Handcuffs (Get a copy from Cannons) as it is THE guide for darby cuffs.
I can understand why some people think that one pair of darby cuffs is the same as another but with so many different companies manufacturing them and for such a long period, you could spend a life time just collecting them and no other cuffs.

RMP(Mark)

As for spacing, the stamps could have been held together in some form of clamp to ensure even spacing but I think that wouldn't work as well on curved surface as it would on a flat one. More than likely who ever made the cuffs was just so used to doing it that it was second nature and if the number did strike very well it probably wasn't a big issue to him.

Just look at Towers, with their notoriously faint and often partial stamps. It's apparently a challenge to get it right.

yes i plan on getting J. L.s book if i could just beat this cuff buying addiction,isn't their a supprt group for it,or would anyone like to start one, HELP ----- HELP,HELP, PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME,LOL

I'm licensed in the UK to train dogs in drug and explosive detection and as a result of this I have a reasonable understanding of the problems associated with addiction. Unfortunately cuff collecting is a hopeless addiction and nothing can be done to help any of us.

I’ve even tried to teach a dog to sniff out handcuffs on eBay but he just kept chasing my PC's mouse.

Joe's book is full of pictures which may help the cravings you'll undoubtedly suffer from so I recommend you get a copy to help combat those late night urges.

RMP(Mark)

Joes books are great and every serious collector should have them. The problem is they contributes to the addiction. I see something I did not know existed and add that to the list of must have cuffs. We are all sick...but it is fun.
Stan