Is anyone out there working on or considering working on a book about some of the "other" escape artists who were the rivals of Houdini including his brother Hardeen?

Yes.

And it shall remain hidden.

HI all,
If anyone does do a book, I've got a lot of pitchbooks, including 5 different editions of the Oudini,
Harry Kardoc, John Clempert, 7 editions of Selby,
two of the Pollock, both Hardeen's inscribed, etc.....

There are many many photos, ads, promo materials, all in
a few private collections. Someone should do a book.
Anyone up for it, contact me and I can put him/her in touch
with any necessary parties.
John

John,

If no one has been in contact with the two top collectors of these items, then there isn't a book in the pipeline. OR If there is, the book will be incomplete.

Kevin

Hello All

I realize that this Statement may ruffel a few fethers, But it is a known fact that during the period that Houdini supposidly 'discovered" the rudiments of performing the handcuff act ... Numerious other performers had also been doing the act for Many years previously.

Still I would be most interest in reading this accumulated info if it ever came out in a Book & im sure that it would be a welcome audition to any Library.


Michael Lee
www.michaelleemagic.com

"I realize that this Statement may ruffel a few fethers, But it is a known fact that during the period that Houdini supposidly 'discovered" the rudiments of performing the handcuff act ... Numerious other performers had also been doing the act for Many years previously."

Yes, and numerous people were doing contact juggling before Michael Moschen "discovered" the rudiments of performing his craft as well. LOL!!!!

Sure, there were escapes before Houdini (for entertainment), but the "art of escape" was not born until Houdini brought it to life around the turn of the 20th century. The problem is, some EA's hate the fact that they are forced to do what they do in the shadow of the Grand Master over 80 years after HIS death, and so they do everything they can to discredit him and try to diminish his legend. Nice try Michael.

Hello All

WHOooo T h e r e Amazing Michael ......Not sure exactly where you are trying to go with your statement that & I quote

"Sure, there were escapes before Houdini (for entertainment), but the "art of escape" was not born until Houdini brought it to life around the turn of the 20th century. The problem is, some EA's hate the fact that they are forced to do what they do in the shadow of the Grand Master over 80 years after HIS death, and so they do everything they can to discredit him and try to diminish his legend. Nice try Michael."

A. M - What I was simply stating was a FACT ! and that there were Infact other escapist around during Houdinis time & Before. so no one knows exactly where the 'art of escape" was created. Try not to view the statement as a 'Dig' at Houdini , but as information that is again common knowledge to be researched & learned from.

Please Michael tell us more about yourself.....


Michael Lee




 

Whooo There amazing michael


No one was taking any sort of "dig at Houdini, Simply stating facts ! .

as for your comment of living in the shadows .....Yes - possibly every escapist Today

is guility of it , still we forge forward.


Michael Lee

Michael, I believe that my statement: "Yes, and numerous people were doing contact juggling before Michael Moschen "discovered" the rudiments of performing his craft as well." sums it all up. Houdini did for the art of escape what Michael Moschen did for contact juggling. Did he totally invent it? No. Did he put it on the map? With out a doubt. Will HIS name be forever attched to the art? Damn skippy.

I don't mean to be so deffensive when it comes to Houdini, but sooooo many EA's today seem to have to publicly put HIM down in order to give themselves a boost.

"I have taken Houdini out of my escape show! Why should I share my spotlight with HIM?!!! I did the work, now I should have ALL of the applause!!!"

This is how some EA's justify their bashing of Houdini. And what is worse, they try and lay that crap on me, like I should join in on the bashing and the removal of HIS name or anything about HIM in MY show!

I have said it before and I will say it again....."If it were not for Houdini, NONE of us in escapes would be here".

Anybody that has excelled in escapology has done so by standing on the shoulders of genius and copying, to some degree, what Houdini has already done. No different than David Copperfield re-vamping tired old tricks by dressing them up with lights, smoke, hot women, fictisous back stories, and trendy music, giving the illusion of creating something brand new. Most of his illusions were created by the old masters, Blackstone, Thurston, Dante', Chung Ling Soo, The Davenport Brothers, etc. In our art, there was, is, and will always be one Master.....the Godfather of modern Escapology, the man that put it on the map.....HOUDINI.

Sure, other poeple did escapes before Houdini, but again, other people were doing contact juggling before Michael Moschen. Hopfully my point has been made.

The Amazing Michael~Escape Artist/Entertainer =)

Hello All

Amazing Michael This has turned out be be an interesting debate but we seen to have gotten off the topic In that it was about Other escape artist that lived before & during the time Houdini lived to be made into some form of a readable volume for collectors & historians

All the same Amacing Michael I Must disagree with you on one point & I quote where you stated

"I have said it before and I will say it again....."If it were not for Houdini, NONE of us in escapes would be here"


This I simply don't agree with AM as there were and are many brilliant & creative individuals that seem to think along the same 'wave lenght" wheather or not the art of escape would exist in my mind there is no doubt it would, with or without a Houdini. especially Now in this day & age where the "reality concept" is in Vogue it only seems to make sence that some one would try to get out of / Escape from cuffs or what ever the restraint may be.

Today in prisons all over the world there are movements ,groups,gangs what ever you choose to call then whose sole sence of being is to devise means of breaking out & finding a way to freedom. While the escape act may evolove in & around Houdini amoug others .
The Idea of Escape/Breaking Free is much deeper & one that is universal.


Michael Lee

Amazing Michael, you hit the nail on the head.

Michael Lee, even though I disagree with some of what you are saying, you do make a few valid points. Kudos.

Kevin, thanks, you are the man.....I have always said that! =)

Cheers, Mike

> "I have said it before and I will say it again....."If it were not for
> Houdini, NONE of us in escapes would be here"


> This I simply don't agree with AM as there were and are many
> brilliant & creative individuals that seem to think along the same
> 'wave lenght" wheather or not the art of escape would exist in my
> mind there is no doubt it would, with or without a Houdini. especially
> Now in this day & age where the "reality concept" is in Vogue it only
> seems to make sence that some one would try to get out of /
> Escape from cuffs or what ever the restraint may be.

This is an area where argument degenerates into speculation. There is a concept of an idea whose time is ripe, and that will emerge at that time. The time was ripe for Harry Houdini. If he had not been on the scene, could someone else have risen to the same level? Woulda coulda shoulda. We can never know.

The fact remains that Harry Houdini was there and did that, and the world will never be the same for his activities. And it has the shape it has because of his activities.

I resemble that remark! Nyuk nyuk

I believe that the planets were aligned in Houdini's time for escapology to be born and Houdini was the one showman (during that time) that was able to bring it to life. There were very few showmen in the world that stood out like Houdini, Elvis was one, can anyone name another? P. T. Barnum, Charlie Chaplin, David Copperfield, Gene Simmons??? Maybe. They were few and far between is my point. If there was such a showman that would have stepped up, had Houdini never done so, then who??? If he or she was the showman that Houdini was, they they would have made themself known in another media. After all, you can't stop greatness....they would have excelled at something else. The gears and wheels were lined up and waiting, dialed in by the Gods of entertainment.....Houdini was the key that rotated the cylinder, unlocking the art of escape and bringing it to the forefront of public entertainment. I don't think that the wrong person during the right time or the right person during the wrong time could have done it. And I really don't think that some reality TV celeb would have taken escapology and put it on the map like Houdini did. Just my thoughts.

Cheers, Mike

BTW, this has shaped up to be quite a thread! =)

You have to throw in Sinatra, no question. Marilyn Monroe is a candidate too. Take out Copperfield and Simmons. Add the Beatles.

Now, back to cuffs......

Kevin, yes we can add Sinatra (and the rest of the Rat Pack), Marilyn Monroe, and The Beatles but Copperfield and Simmons have to stay. =)

Cheers, Mike

Michael,

I thought we were talking icons. The ones you suggest were/are big names, but not icons.

You never see many other magicians or singers for that matter who are trying to make a name for themselves standing up in front of a microphone and droning on and on about how "this was first done by so and so" or "so and so did this song or trick so I am going to do it because so and so was so great, etc".

To do so diminishes the artist the audience is currently watching perform. I.E., "O.K., since so and so did it why should we be impressed that you are doing it? You are just a copy artist".

Escape artists seem to be the only ones who feel the need to do this almost as if they feel insecure and unsure the audience will appreciate thier own skills and talents and thusly they feel the need to link what they are doing to the exploits of a long dead once famous entertainer as if to give themselves credibility.

Believe what you want but the hard facts are no one in a modern audience ever saw Houdini perform live and very few lay people nowadays evn know what in fact he did do in his career.

The major cause of this ongoing and endless "tribute to Houdini" junk is that Houdini was the only major star in his time in escapes.

Unlike other forms of magic where there were plenty of other luminaries to draw on in various formats, like card magic, close up, illusion, etc, to the practitioners of escape therre is only one name to pull from the hat and only his exploits to copy or draw inspiration from.

The end result is clone act after clone act all blending into the same fold like a convention of Elvis impersonators. Sure, some Elvis guys may be better than average but in reality they are all still Elvis clones.

To live in the shadow of a dead man and his accomplishments limits your thinking and creativity and does the entire art for a great dis service by hindering it's growth.

If you ever want people to remember you as an escapist for what you do stop mentioning Houdini.

He got his own press. Go out and get your own without having to invoke his name to give yours credibility.

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

What Anonymous said ....

I respectfully disagree.

Cheers, Mike

I think those posts were for Silly Sam's windy post.