Wondering if this is the same collection that keeps turning up from UK to NYC and now seems to be LA area.

Here's the link to the article:http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-torture-auction16-2009may16%2C3%2C3298731.story

From some of the pictures I saw, they were fakes for sure.

This news story is reporting on the collection for sale from a NYC auction house.

After looking at the pics, all of which I saw showed authentic items, I am convinced that this is part of the lost collection that was formerly on display in Nuremberg pre 1940.

Steve Santini

link to short video about the auction.

http://www.latimes.com/video/?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=3764745

By the way, The US government didn't TORTURE any of these terrorists that hate us and want to kill us.

My opinion..

so are you going to be one of the $3 million bidders

Come on Steve, clean your glasses, I saw several reproduction/fakes in the photo's. Look at the rust pattern, hinges, machine screw, etc. Some items might be real but most of what I saw was not antique, at least the 16th century.

Would you point out some of the discrepancies you saw?

The three-jaw tongs thingie has what appears to be a prominent machine screw for a hinge pivot. It could be a repair, although I can't see how the pin could be broken lo lost. A screw would be a very expensive pivot for something that does not need to be disassembled.

The maille gauntlet appears to be of butted maille, not the riveted maille I would expect to see. Period maille is rare, as it corrodes horribly. That gauntlet is pretty nice.

The bagnos are interesting. Is that a lock mechanism o the right side post?

The wood items can be radiocarbon dated, but iron is tough.

The photos appear to conceal as much as they show.

"The bagnos are interesting. Is that a lock mechanism o the right side post?"

Yes, I believe it is.....it looks like it locks on top of the piece standing up on the wing nut. It is VERY cool!!! I have never seen one like it.

Cheers, Mike D~C/

I believe that most of these items are original. Please keep in mind, that torture was abolished in Germany very late, e.g. in Coburg-Gotha not till 1828! The last execution of a witch in Germany was in the "Großherzogtum" Posen in 1793 (the French Revolution was 1789!). Public-executions with the executioner´s sword took place in some German states until the 1870´s!! So it could be possible to find such items, even made in the 19th. cent. and they are authentic.
But of course one has to see these things at least in real to find out if they are original or not.

There are existing original torture items from Germany even from the 20th. cent. The Gestapo used old items, but they did let produce some new torture equipment. I have seen a device which looked like a big rigid handcuff with one lock and spikes inside. As far as I can remember is one of these cuffs at the police museum in Prague (obviously a relict of Heydrich the slaughterer).

Does someone know more of these cuffs or related items?

I do have in my collection a metal slow strangulation collar, or garrote, that was pulled as a war trophy from the Gestapo headquarters in Paris after WW2.

It is a 1940's period hand made item that would tighten about the neck by means of a screw rod and hand turned wing nut.

Rather crude but no doubt effective.

Steve Santini

Therein lies the problem, people making assumptions because it is a torture device, then it must be 16th century. And it does not preclude the fact that someone in the 20th century had commissioned someone to reproduce these items for show, i.e., museum or show. Even BDSM since we know it was practiced in the early 20th century and earlier. One must look carefully and play detective these days because of the number of fakes that are turning up. Caviat emptor!

Indeed, caveat emptor. One of the best ways of distinguishing between period machines and modern repros, is the style and details of the manufacturing. Screw threads, for example, can be a give away.

For those that might be a bit confused about metals here is a link to Wikipedia that gives good explanation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrought_iron

And from almost 2 years ago basically mirrors Wikipedia.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/261154/message/1181089191/Re-+How+To+Safely+Remove+Rust+from+Handcuffs