Like many of these items, we will never know when they were made but looking at the hinge, it's an old method of making a hinge. No one making new replicas would do it this way. The key, a piece of square tube, has a split down the opposite corners. One would think that the cuff, if new(ish) would have been made with a key. The square headed bolt made to suit the square tube at the same time. Howvever, the square bolt is not a standard size to suit modern tubing, hence the mod.

What did the seller say, when YOU told them ?
( or should someone else do it?)

Ian

That's some of the nicest Civil War arc welding I've seen.

Hi Dennis, which part or photo do you see arc welding?

Ian

This is a nice looking piece-my problem is with the locking tube, it is flat on the top and where the tube joins the body the welding looks sloppy. The two that I have and all that I have seen, have rounded edges on the tube and very smooth tube attachment to the body.

The "key" is split either to make it fit the bolt or someone really used a lot of torque. I don't think it is original.

Ron

I did not tell them.

Can't be bothered.

It is obviously a replica due to the lask of the lead pulg that is the treaded part for the bolt.

As you are doubt aware, the bottom of this lead fill should be visible out a hole in the bottom of the lower lock tube.

It is not.

As well, the walls of the locking tube on the top part where the square bolt is are too thick, the height of both parts of the locking tubes are too high, etc, etc, etc.

Kind of obvious.

Steve Santini

The hinge is made of tubes welded onto the cuff arcs.

Sure, the welds are not obvious and have been well ground down and polished but if it were in fact the old way of forging a Lilly hinge where the material is folded over onto itself and then forge welded there would be a hairline seam visible from the area of the hinge pin to where it would vanish as the manacle part joins the pin area.

The material where the cuff part joins the hinge would be thicker and would taper down to the eventual thickness of the cuff area ala a minor type of "tear drop" shape.

Such things are not visible on these cuffs.

Steve Santini

Did anyone mention that the lock tubes should also be tapered on the outside ?

I cannot see any where which has arc welding and I can say they are not authentic lilly (brand?) irons but they are old lilly style cuffs. I don't think they were made in the last 30 years. Although the bolt appears to have been replaced.

You want stop sellers do what sellers do, but keep yourself knowledgable to their practices.
To me it's like pirated DVD, people are going to do it but it's up to each individual to do what one should know is right or wrong.

Ian

These are rare Lilly style irons that were made by Walden in the early 1900's. LOL!

....and used by the Kennedy assasin conspirtators!

I have asked the seller some questions about markings (a number is usually on the inside of the arms) and some reproductions may have a makers mark. I also sent him the link to this series of posts. He said the link was dead. He probably just clicked on the link in the eBay message which will not work and told him to copy and past it into his browser. NO REPLY.

I do think these are early reproductions definitely not original.

Ron

Ian, I can't prove they are arc welded from the photos. The photos are either of insufficient quality or are carefully arranged to conceal what I am looking for.

But the bows are suspicious. They are of thinner material than the bars, and meet with a particularly square corner. Neither of those proves anything, but they make me suspicious. The bows are slightly wider then the bars, again not surprising, but there is a square corner at the join. That indicates to me that they are two pieces joined together.

It is a sum of little suspicions.

Just received the reply from the seller:

"Saw comments, quite interesting. BUT, send us pictures of what
you consider "authentic" ones, All we see is speculation and
some stupid comments along the way. So, unless you can show
me the "authentic" one we are sticking to the authenticity of
these.BTW we are very computer literate and the link didn't work
before, now it did. I was not what you claim in your thread."

Just received another reply:

"one more thing, WE DO NOT CONCEAL anything as some of the
comments implied. WE have photographed them fromn every angle
possible, to show how authentic they are, NOIT to hide anything. It is an absurd comment"

ron

The starting bid was reduced to $9.99 and the titled updated as well: "LILLY IRONS HANDCUFFS C 1920's REISSUE EXCELLENT"

Currently at $100 (with some higher reserve).


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http://restraintsblog.blogspot.com/

It's about time some reason came to bear on one of the ebay auctions.

Steve

It doesn't matter, this guy probably has a $600.00 reserve, the same as his old opener. Nothing changes with ebay sellers like this. Did anyone see his other auctions? His prices are way high!!! Another case of, "your stuff is sh*t, and my sh*t is gold!" Just like a couple of our eBay sellers here, I won't mention their names.

eBb