Hi all,
Last year i asked for advice on tracing the crash site of LV827 which crashed on the night of 18th March 1944 in Germany as a distant relative of mine was on board.
UPDATE time
On the 18th March this year i visited RAF Leconfield and was near the end of the runway for the time that they took off (19:18), which was a errie feeling being in the dark and with the cold wind.
By April this year i had been in contact with a person in Germany who said he knew the location of where the plane had come down and i went to Germany to meet him so that he could take me to the crash site. On the way to the crash site we stopped and spoke to the forester who knew of a Gentleman who was 71 and had visited the crash site in the morning after the crash, all of us went to the site and the 71yr old chap was telling us what he saw all those years ago. Later that day we went up in a light aircraft flown by my contact over the crash site.
It was a very emotional day for us and one i will never forget.
Which brings me onto the main point and that is to try to get in contact with the families of the other crew members who were also on board that day, their names are:-
F/S Malcolm Watson 420314 age 30
F/S Edward Newell 410253 age 22
Sgt Cyril Roberts 1457708 age 20
F/O Leonard Gream 406618 age 23
Sgt Harold Price 1496337 age 20
If anyone knows of any of the above relatives who would like to know some more details and pictures then please send me a email.
Also many thanks to the people who helped me by giving me advice initially.
Congratulations on the progress you have made to date with researching the loss of this aircraft. You've done a great job.
Searching for relatives of crew members is a little like looking for a needle in a haystack, but it is not impossible - just takes a bit of time and luck.
If I was tackling this particular crew I would start with the Australians onboard. This is because you can order up copies of their service records via the National Archives of Australia. They may provide you with some additional information about not only the airman in question but possibly details about the loss of the aircraft too.
You can order copies to be made available online. It normally takes about 4 to 5 weeks for this to happen but it costs nothing. Or, if you prefer, you can order paper copies of the documents but there is a charge for this service.
Meanwhile, a little additional info may be available about the Australian airmen when you are searching for and ordering digitisation of the documents. For example it has the following about Watson:
WATSON MALCOLM DOUGLAS : Service Number - 420314 : Date of birth - 15 Mar 1914 : Place of birth - SUMMER HILL NSW : Place of enlistment - SYDNEY : Next of Kin - WATSON KATHLEEN
A letter to the local newspaper in the towns where the airmen came from may bear fruit while you are waiting for further info.
Here is a link to the National Archives of Australia website http://www.naa.gov.au/the_collection/recordsearch.html I use the "search now - as a guest" option. My top tip would be to use the service number for the search, I find if you give it too much info it is not so effective.
Also, put all you Australians through a search here http://www.awm.gov.au/database/roh.asp sometimes you will find a pdf file which gives a tiny bit of info (every little helps). The one for P/O Watson has some interesting details. It gives an address for NOK but it also gives the names of his two brothers, both of whom appear to have been in the Air Force.
Well, good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Well done everybody! I know how difficult researching can be.
(If I didn't already give you - I can let you have the production info for your aircraft)
I agree with Linzee when she suggests contacting the local newspapers and leaving a small ad or even writing a small column / story. The internet is a good place to find the address of 'local' newspapers.
DATE: 18/03/44
TARGET: Frankfurt
TIME UP: 19:18hrs
DETAILS:
Left base without incidnet. (Shot down?) A/C crashed at Wembach, Nr Darmstadt. All crew rest in
Durnbach War Cemetery. F/O Lees RAAF had married Olive Lees from Bournmouth.
CREW:
F/Sgt M. D. Watson RAAF K
Sgt H. G. Price K
F/Sgt E. S. Newell RAAF K
F/Sgt G. E. Doggett RAAF K
Sgt C. Roberts K
F/O W. H. Lees RAAF K
F/O L. A. Gream RAAF K
N.B: .
PHOTOGRAPHS:
LV792 or LV833 are the nearest comparisons on file
The only thing i should say is that F/O W. H. Lees RAAF K was on HX231 a 466 squadron Halifax which apparently crashed within 400 metres of where LV827 had crashed. My researcher in Germany was under the impression that the planes may have collided in the skies over Darmstadt. My next day witness said that he heard them (the German military in 1944) saying that the flak guns at Darmstadt had got them, i suppose that the propaganda machine may of claimed them for the flak guns though.
Something else for me to tidy up though i suppose.
Hi Linzee,
Many thanks for your advice - it is very much appreciated.
I had a look at the records that you suggested and for the 2 brothers of Malcolm Watson i noticed that his youngest brother was killed in a Wellington on a training exercise in March 1943 and his middle aged brother was killed on a raid to Hannover in Sept 1943, that must of been a very miserable 12 months for their families, as far as i can tell that only left a sister back in Australia.
Cyril Roberts had a sister who married the relative of mine and obviously lost a husband and a brother in that aircraft, she later married a Canadian who was serving here and after the war emigrated to Canada with him.
The only thing i didn't do because of time whilst in Germany this year was to visit the graves in Durnbach War Cemetery and so i am hoping to make another visit to Germany next year.
Once again many thanks for all the information that you posted.
Many thanks Karl,
Cyril Roberts had a sister who my relative on the flight married, after the crash she had lost a brother and a husband. She remarried to a Canadian and moved to Canada when he returned home.
