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420 Snowy Owl Squadron Pics

January 1 2005 at 1:22 AM
  (Login Rodusek)
from IP address 67.68.138.237

 
Does anyone have pictures of crews or individuals from the 420 Snowy Owl Squadron. In 1943 I beleive it was they were stationed at Tholthrope Yorkshire. I'm looking for pics of Norman Binnie, Normy Cooper, Ted Vigor,and Bill Brayley. I'm not sure if all were posted to the 420 Squadron.

Chris

 
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AuthorReply

(no login)
195.93.33.11

Brayley

January 1 2005, 1:03 PM 

Hi Chris

There was a William Etienne Joseph Brayley who was with 158 Sqn and was shot down on 10/4/44, succesfully evading capture. He came from Monreal West. Don't know if this is your man and unfortunately I don't have a photo either

Cheers

Eddie

 
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(no login)
67.68.138.237

Re: Brayley

January 1 2005, 6:00 PM 

I can't say if that is the man but if you have a picture I might be able to confirm that he is thone because my great grandfather took alot of pictures.

Chris

 
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(Login Rodusek)
67.68.138.237

This is the man I was looking for

January 3 2005, 10:32 PM 

This is the man I was looking for. He was shot down and ended up evading capture in the Fretval Forest along with my great grandfather.

Chris

 
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Ian F
(no login)
82.41.238.237

Re: 420 Snowy Owl Squadron Pics

January 1 2005, 7:07 PM 

Hi Chris,

Here's all the 420 Squadron Halifaxes listed in the database here. All are of Halifax aircraft & no crew details given, but the list may be of use...

Best wishes for the New Year.
Ian
57 R

LV953...00/00/00...BSqRAF p241...'Fangs of Fire' nose art...F
LW380...00/06/44...Halifax p138...'B' basking in summer sunshine...B
LW380...Planes A83 p10...PT-B in foreground on ground PT-Y at rear...B
LW676...00/06/44...Halifax p138 'Y' In background with LW217...Y
LW676...Planes A83 p10...PT-Y in background, PT-B in foreground...Y
LW676...00/08/44...THPH p146...PT-Y basking on a sunny grassy dispersal...Y
MZ420...00/07/44...HIA p34...Two a/c on ground being serviced
MZ423...00/00/45...BSqRAF p241...Tail section of this a/c lined up at Rawcliffe...B
MZ620...06/01/45...A/St4 p182...a/c taxies past
NR230...57#90419...PT-H at dispersal engines running...H
NR230...57/90420...PT-H at dispersal, taxies out 3/4 front view...H
NR230...57/90421...PT-H at dispersal, close up engines running...H
NR230...57/90421...H front 3/4 view of engines running up...H
........57#90411...PT-S crew pose with nose art...S
........57#90412...PT-O (possibly) at dispersal, crew door open...O
........57#90413...PT-V (possibly) "Viva Viva Viva" taxies in...V
........57#90415...Unidentified a/c nice side on with nose art
........57#90420...Unidentified a/c taxies away from the camera
........57/90411...Crew pose under nose of 'Sweet Sue' (?) PT-S...S
........57/90412...unidentified Halifax sits at dispersal (from rear)
........57/90413...PT-V 'viva viva viva' taxies in at Tholthorpe...V
........57/90420...evocative photo of Halifax taxying away
...00/00/44...BC36-68 p100...“Diane Cupid" nose art
...00/00/45...BSqRAF p241...‘Lets Get Crackin - City of London' artwork

Additionally we have the following pics:-
Squadron blazer badge
Marshalling group of Halifaxes with PT-C prominent
One of 420's Halifaxes being serviced at dispersal
Nose art "The Dusty Duke"
420 Sqn Halifax undergoing engine maintenance
Halifax PT-H showing mid-under gun clearly

 
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(no login)
67.68.138.237

Halifax E-Easy

January 1 2005, 9:13 PM 

I beleive in one of the stories my great grandfather wrote he said his bomber E-Easy. The crew was

P/O Luke Holoway RCAF
Sgt. Norman Binnie RCAF
F/O John Lancaster RCAF
P/O R. Irwin RCAF
F/Sgt Bert Brakes RAF
P/O W. Chudzik RCAF
F/Sgt Harry Waller RCAF
P/O F. Harrop RCAF

On the 10/11 June 1944 when their Halifax was shot down. Binnie and Brakes jumped to safety, the rest of the crew were killed. They were bombing the railyards in France that night.

Chris

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
82.41.238.237

Re: Halifax E-Easy

January 2 2005, 12:04 AM 

Here's the info we have on this aircraft...
Hope it helps?
Ian
57 R

SERIAL No: LW674
MANUFACTURER: English Electric Co Ltd, Preston
CONTRACT No: ACFT/1808/C4/C
REQUISITION No: HA1/E11/42
ORDER QTY & TYPE: 260 B/A Mk III's
DELIVERY DETAILS: Batch LW671 to LW696 delivered between 29/02/44 & 03/03/44

1st UNIT: 420 sqn
SQUADRON: 420 sqn
UNIT CODES: PT-E
BASE: Tholthorpe

DATE: 11/06/44
TARGET: Versailles
TIME UP: 22:03hrs

DETAILS:
Left base to bomb railway yards. A/C crashed at Theuville (Eure-et-Loir) which is situated some 15km
SSE of Chartres, to the W of the main Chartres / Orleans highway.
P/O Holowaychuk who served as P/O Holoway RCAF and the remaining crew members who died are
buried in the Theuville Communal Cemetery. Sgt Chudzik RCAF was the mid under gunner.

CREW:
P/O L. Hollowaychuk RCAF K
Sgt N. Binnie RCAF evd
F/O J. D. Lancaster RCAF K
F/Sgt R. M. Irwin RCAF K
F/Sgt B. E. Brakes evd
Sgt W. J. Chudzik RCAF K
F/Sgt H. Waller K
Sgt F. G. Harrop RCAF K

N.B: Also reported as having operated with No 76 Sqn as "MP-W".

PHOTOGRAPHS: Nearest comparison: LW671 or LW676



 
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(no login)
67.68.138.237

This is it

January 2 2005, 4:37 AM 

This is defintley the bomber and crew I'm looking for but I want photo's of the crew preferably individuals. Also if any one has anything about Ted Vigor-shotdown in 1943 or 44 and Normy Cooper I'd love to hear from you.

Chris

 
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(Login Rodusek)
67.68.138.237

Deaths of the bomber crew

January 2 2005, 4:51 AM 

Pardon me but Holoway died. My great grandfather Norman Binnie survived as did Bert Brakes. In a rough draft of a letter he was writing it to Bert Brakes about that night. Only Binnie and Brakes survived.

John Douglas Lancaster was the navigator


 
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(Login Rodusek)
67.68.138.237

406 squadron

January 2 2005, 5:20 AM 

Ian I think you must review your information as Norman Binnie seved with 406 Sqn a night fighter sqn. He served with it till 1943.

Chris

 
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(Login LancMan)
57 Rescue Moderators
62.253.128.7

Re: 406 squadron

January 2 2005, 4:17 PM 

Chris,

What does your information say about Binnie's trade with 406 Squadron? As i am sure you are aware (having done your homework), they were a NF Squadron and employed the services of Gunners (and Navigators / Observers) as well as Pilots. Is it possible that Binnie remustered from the trade of Gunner / Observer / Navigator etc., to the grade of Flight Engineer? Certainly not unknown in my own field of research (No.1 Bomber Group) and indeed relatively common throughout the RAF in WW2.

Perhaps you can check your sources and see what his trade was prior to his service with 420, and i suspect that you will find that Ian has indeed given a correct crew listing. I have checked it already against the official Bomber Command Loss Card and found Ian's listing to be correct as far as tallying with the Loss Card is concerned. In my experience, the Loss Cards are rarely wrong.

L/O

Greg

"You can take the boy out of Wales,
But you cannot takes Wales out of the boy"

 
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(no login)
67.68.138.237

Re: 406 squadron

January 2 2005, 4:41 PM 

Well I'm not sure of my great grandfather's trade in 406 squadron but unfortunatley he passed away 10 years ago. I can check with his son. The loss card is damn wrong I tell you. Norman survived if you check Riochard Koval's page it also tells you Binnie and Brakes survived. I have Binnie's account of what happened from a rough draft of a letter he wrote to Bert Brakes about 10/11 June 1944.

Chris

 
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(Login LancMan)
57 Rescue Moderators
62.253.128.7

Re: 406 squadron

January 2 2005, 6:10 PM 

Chris,

You might want to read my message again a little more thoroughly old chap - it doesn't suggest, nor did i, and nor does the Loss Card, that Binnie didn't survive. It states that he escaped - a fact that i (nor indeed Ian i think?) have not argued with.

I think you'll agree that makes your statement that "the Loss Card is damned wrong" perhaps premature, inflammatory, and rather short-sighted?

As i mentioned in my previous post, which you'll note if you go back and re-read it *proprerly*, you may want to check his trade in 406 "Lynx" Squadron - it is my suspicion that he flew as one trade with 406 and then re-mustered to Flight Engineer sometime between then and joining 420. I believe (but am not sure) that relatives of RCAF airmen have relatively easy access to their service records, so this shouldn't be a mammoth task for you to undertake. Once you have, perhaps you'd like to post your findings back on this forum for us - i'm sure we'd all be very interested to read what you have discovered.

Finally Chris, i've only very rarely known a Loss Card to be wrong. They were mostly compiled post-war, using information from a great many sources, and cross referenced many times against each of these sources. Without the "hurried" nature of compilation that afflicted so many wartime records (including ORBs), their details are not only very often 100% correct, but rich in their content and revealing of the aircraft and airmen they concern. Whilst i would never be so crass as to say they are never wrong, i would suggest that the one appertaining to LW674 is correct in every detail (down to bomb load and route taken to and from the target) unless you can offer me pretty solid provenance that it isn't.

All the best,

Greg

"You can take the boy out of Wales,
But you cannot takes Wales out of the boy"

 
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(Login Rodusek)
67.68.138.237

Sorry Greg and Ian

January 2 2005, 6:17 PM 

Sorry Greg and Ian I apologize for my rather hasty replies, I thought that the loss report was trying to say that my great grandfather died but as my grandfather told me the loss report was correct at the time but is out dated if you know what I mean. Greg, I don't know how to pull up service records but if you could tell me how I would really appreciate it. Now to answer your question on what Norman did 406 Sqn I don't know. I found out through an article in an old Air Canada newspaper that my great grandmother must have saved that he was with 406 squadron then later trained to be a flight engineer with 420 squadron. I believe he did this in 1943. I know that 406 sqn was formed in 1941 as a night fighter sqn then in '44 swithced to something else I forget what it was.

Chris

 
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(Login LancMan)
57 Rescue Moderators
62.253.128.7

Re: Sorry Greg and Ian

January 2 2005, 8:45 PM 

Chris,

As far as i am aware, you apply to Veteran Affairs in Canada, but i am really no expert on obtaining RCAF airmen's service history.

Perhaps Ian, or Karl can jump in here and offer Chris a more detailed reply on how to go about obtaining a copy of his Great Grandfather's service history?

Regarding the Loss Cards Chris - they appertain to an *aircraft*, not an individual crewman. They detail the circumstances surrounding the loss of an aircraft, but they also list, man by man, the crew. On the card for LW674 the Flight Engineer (Binnie) and the Wireless Operator (Brakes) are shown as having evaded capture and escaped back to the UK. I can't see any way that the Loss Card can be wrong there, as those two chaps were indeed the only 2 survivors. An Escape and Evasion Report for each airman is filed and available for viewing at the Public Record Office in London, UK. I have copies of all the Escape and Evasion Reports that appertain to 1 Group airmen, but as your Great Grandfather was in 420 Squadron, part of 6 Group, i'm afraid my collection doesn't really help you very much!! However, if you can provide me with a postal address, i will gladly send you a copy ofthe Loss Card. If you would like a copy of it, please send me an email with your postal address to gregATgreg-harrison.co.uk (replacing the "AT" with an "@").

Best wishes as always,

Greg

"You can take the boy out of Wales,
But you cannot takes Wales out of the boy"

 
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(no login)
94.0.151.159

Pictures of the Holoway Crew "E" Easy LW674

July 17 2011, 8:28 PM 

Hello Chris,

Have just found your string of messages from a little while ago on halifax LW674 E-Easy - You were asking for any pictures of the Crew.

Just wondering whether you had any luck?

I am desparatly searching myself for a Picture of P/O Luke Holoway (The Pilot) or the whole crew.
It seems that my Grandmother was going to marry Luke after the War but unfortunately as you already know that sadly he did not make it.

Did you have any luck in locating any Pictures of the Crew/Single Crew or Photos of the Aircraft?
I do have a Photo of who I think is Luke so that we could perhaps double check if you have one also?

If you can help in anyway at all please let us know.

Many thanks for your time - Best Regards - Keith.

 
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(no login)
184.148.11.69

420 Squadron Pictures

October 4 2012, 1:56 PM 

I am compiling historical information about the RCAF 420 Snowy Owl Squadron as the “City Of London” bomber squadron during the war, as an auxiliary fighter squadron from 1948 to 1956, as 2420 AC&W Squadron from 1957 to 1961 and an Air Reserve Squadron at Shearwater, N.S. and Summerside, P.E.I. from 1974 to 1994.

I am looking for any historical documents, military records, magazine or newspaper clippings, and particularly pictures of aircraft in 420 markings. If you or anyone else connected with this forum has such material, I would appreciate it very much if you could contact me.


Thank you very much for your assistance.

Jay Hunt
Ottawa Canada

 
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(Login JayPHunt)
184.148.11.69

420 Squadron Pictures

October 4 2012, 2:00 PM 

I am compiling historical information about the RCAF 420 Snowy Owl Squadron as the City Of London bomber squadron during the war, as an auxiliary fighter squadron from 1948 to 1956, as 2420 AC&W Squadron from 1957 to 1961 and an Air Reserve Squadron at Shearwater, N.S. and Summerside, P.E.I. from 1974 to 1994.

I am looking for any historical documents, military records, magazine or newspaper clippings, and particularly pictures of aircraft in 420 markings. If you or anyone else connected with this forum has such material, I would appreciate it very much if you could contact me.


Thank you very much for your assistance.

Jay Hunt
Ottawa Canada

 
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Karl Kj
(no login)
69.196.185.245

crewmember photos

January 2 2005, 4:29 PM 

If you check on Richard Koval's site www.rcaf.com/6group/left.html there is a photo of a J. Lancaster of 420 squadron under his photo section in the individual photos. Cheers, Karl

 
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(no login)
67.68.138.237

Re: crewmember photos

January 2 2005, 4:51 PM 

I'm aware of Richard Koval's site. I have seen the picture of JD Lancaster and also the daily operations page I've checked for the 10/11 June 1944 and found what I wanted.

Chris

 
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(Login Rodusek)
67.68.138.237

Thanks to everyone for there info

January 2 2005, 7:00 PM 

Thank you everyone for you're info, I appreciate it.

Chris

 
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(Login Rodusek)
67.68.138.237

Bomber E-Easy

January 3 2005, 10:30 PM 

This is nothing important but is humorus. My great grandfather and his crew accidentily got lost over Bremen during a mission and were dancing on top of flak. Both the outer fuel tanks were holed and they ended up landing at an American drome called Hethel or Ethel. When they tried to refuel he aircraft the gas poured on the ground and had to be sent bak to the factory.

Chris

 
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(no login)
67.68.138.237

Re: Bomber E-Easy

January 3 2005, 10:56 PM 

Forgot to add the ground crew counted 96 flak holes!!!

Chris

 
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My M-i-L Niece to WJ Chudzik / GJA
(no login)
209.211.185.66

Updated links - The No. 6 Bomber Group website is now home to Richard Koval's photos

March 12 2012, 1:18 AM 

Rodusek
(Login Rodusek)
67.68.138.237 Thanks to everyone for there info January 2 2005, 7:00 PM

Thank you everyone for you're info, I appreciate it.

Chris


*** Note/GJA/2012, see http://www.6grouprcaf.com/ since this “6group” refers to No. 6 Bomber Group. And this is the site now by Richard Koval.

(Also see: http://www.canadianwings.com/Squadrons/squadronList.php?type=Squadrons+Nos+400-450&page=2 and the Unit Information at http://www.canadianwings.com/Squadrons/squadronDetail.php?No.-420-Squadron-79 . The RCAF.com site is now www.Canadianwings.com . ***)

At the www.6grouprcaf.com site, under the “Our Photos” link, there are photos of the commanding officers, crews, and individuals. So then for the No. 420 Squadron, http://www.6grouprcaf.com/420Crews/index.htm and I believe this is the Halifax III aircraft “E-Easy” here:
http://www.6grouprcaf.com/420Crews/pages/420JTeasecrew.htm
so he would have to be in this photo.

 
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My M-i-L Niece to WJ Chudzik / GJA
(no login)
209.211.185.66

Updated links - The No. 6 Bomber Group website is now home to Richard Koval's photos

March 12 2012, 1:41 AM 

Rodusek
(Login Rodusek)
67.68.138.237 Thanks to everyone for there info January 2 2005, 7:00 PM

Thank you everyone for you're info, I appreciate it.

Chris


*** Note/GJA/2012, see http://www.6grouprcaf.com/ since this “6group” refers to No. 6 Bomber Group. And this is the site now by Richard Koval.

(Also see: http://www.canadianwings.com/Squadrons/squadronList.php?type=Squadrons+Nos+400-450&page=2 and the Unit Information at http://www.canadianwings.com/Squadrons/squadronDetail.php?No.-420-Squadron-79 . The RCAF.com site is now www.Canadianwings.com . ***)

At the www.6grouprcaf.com site, under the “Our Photos” link, there are photos of the commanding officers, crews, and individuals. So then for the No. 420 Squadron, http://www.6grouprcaf.com/420Crews/index.htm and I believe this is the Halifax III aircraft “E-Easy” here:
http://www.6grouprcaf.com/420Crews/pages/420JTeasecrew.htm
so he would have to be in this photo.

Update: However, they were in aircraft LW674 when they perished, and this may not be that aircraft – as it is LW416.

 
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My M-iL- related to WJ Chudzik/GJA
(no login)
209.211.185.66

Other Photos

March 12 2012, 2:07 AM 

On Binnie:
http://cometeline.org/ficheD019.html with a picture of Binnie. Also, picture of aircraft, though not sure it is exactly LW-674. It does come from Handley's page here.
There are pictures of those who escaped and survived with Binnie in the other photo.
To Translate:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcometeline.org%2FficheD019.html

On Brakes:
same site: http://cometeline.org/ficheD318.html (no photo)
Translated: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcometeline.org%2FficheD019.html
==============================================================================

For more details and gravestones, see In French:
http://forcedlanding.pagesperso-orange.fr/Commonwealth2.htm
and run this URL through http://translate.google.com
Has individual headstones, and notes about the mission.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforcedlanding.pagesperso-orange.fr%2FCommonwealth2.htm%20
=========================================

Also most in English:
http://www.inmemories.com/Cemeteries/theuville.htm with much of the same information and picture of the 6 graves.



The Canadian Wings site reorganized, but here is the 420th squadron info:
http://www.canadianwings.com/Squadrons/squadronList.php?type=Squadrons+Nos+400-450&page=2
No. 420 Squadron

No. 420 Squadron formed in No. 5 Group, Bomber Command on 19 December 1941, as the RCAF's 18th - fourth Bomber - squadron formed overseas, at Waddington. It was equipped with Handley Page Hampen Mk Is and began operations in January 1942, flying...

And Unit Information: http://www.canadianwings.com/Squadrons/squadronDetail.php?No.-420-Squadron-79


 
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(Login ihategfws)
212.183.140.18

message for My M-i-L Niece to WJ Chudzik / GJA

March 15 2012, 9:25 AM 

Hi
please could you E-mail me regarding WJ Chudzik
howard.waller@talk21.com

 
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(no login)
38.116.192.102

Roski

July 17 2012, 1:18 PM 

Does anyone have any pictures or knowledge of Antonio Roski ? Uncle... can't find any pictures of "L"



MZ-687 "L" did not return. pilot F/O GF Pritchard, 2nd Dickey P/O RH Davies, ba F/O Block, nav F/O Moffit, gun WO1 Surles, wop WO2 DBH Lorenz, ag F/Sgt AG Roski, and gun Sgt KG Boucock.

Thanks

 
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(Login JayPHunt)
184.148.11.69

420 Snowy Owl Squadron Pictures

October 4 2012, 2:50 PM 

I am compiling historical information about the RCAF 420 Snowy Owl Squadron as the City Of London bomber squadron during the war, as an auxiliary fighter squadron from 1948 to 1956, as 2420 AC&W Squadron from 1957 to 1961 and an Air Reserve Squadron at Shearwater, N.S. and Summerside, P.E.I. from 1974 to 1994.

I am looking for any historical documents, military records, magazine or newspaper clippings, and particularly pictures of aircraft in 420 markings. If anyone connected with this forum has such material, I would appreciate it very much if you could contact me.


Thank you very much for your assistance.

Jay Hunt
Ottawa Canada

 
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