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431 Squadron

March 6 2007 at 7:58 PM
  (no login)
from IP address 81.110.3.254

 
My Uncle Pilot Officer John Morton was KIA along with the rest of his crew on 25/26 November 1943 They left Tholthorpe N Yorkshire in a Halifax V. LK973 code SE-E on an op to Frankfurt and failed to return. According to the Bomber Losses the cause and crash site were not established. My Uncle and the crew are buried in Durnbach war cemetary. I understand there is no night fighter claim so presumably the were caught by flak, Can anyone out there tell me how I may go about at least establishing the crash site and would there have been a report on the loss. My Uncles log books are not with any family members would the RAf have kept them after his death? Also if any has any 431 squadron photos I could see I would be most grateful Thanking you all in advance.

 
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Dean K
(Login Dean_K)
160.62.4.10

Re: 431 Squadron

March 7 2007, 4:37 PM 

Hi Kathryn,

If nobody in the family has your Uncle’s log book, it will have been retained by the RAF. The vast majority of these were tragically destroyed in the late 60’s, as they were taking up too much space! – more information here: - http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/collections/archive/aircrew_logbooks.cfm

It might be worth sending an enquiry to DoRIS (Dept. of Research & Information Services) at the RAF museum, Hendon, on the off-chance that your Uncle’s logbook was one of the few saved. I contacted them through the website, asking the same question about my Uncle’s logbook, and I also enquired about obtaining a copy of the Form 78 for his aircraft. A few weeks later, I received a lovely letter from them saying, unfortunately, my Uncle’s logbook was not amongst those saved, but they included a photocopy of the Form 78 and wished me good luck in my research; which I thought was nice. The on-line contact form is here: - http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/research/contact.cfm

This page on the RAF website gives some details of the losses in November 1943:- http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/nov43.html

I don’t know how you’d go about finding the crash site, but 431 Sqdn’s ORB (Operations Record Book) may give you more details. This can be viewed at the National Archives (formerly the Public Records Office) in Kew. You can also obtain these documents, or parts of them, on-line. Go to http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ for more info.

Go to ‘Search the archives’, then ‘the Catalogue’ and put the piece references below, in the box, in the top left hand corner – then click on ‘Go to reference’

431 ORB piece reference: AIR 27/1857
431 Combat Reports piece ref: AIR 50/259

For each one, click on the ‘Request this’ button on the right hand side, and follow the instructions to request an estimate of cost.


Hope that helps,

Dean.

 
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(no login)
195.93.21.99

Re: 431 Squadron

March 8 2007, 8:58 AM 

Kathryn

See

http://www.rcaf.com/6group/

This site has lots of useful information

Cheers

Eddie

 
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(no login)
81.77.113.208

Halifax LK973.

March 9 2007, 8:51 PM 

Hi Kathryn,
I have just come across your message by chance as i don't usually visit this forum.
My grandfather F/O D.F.Rands was the navigator on this aircraft & i have also been trying to find out the details of the aircraft's loss,but without too much success.
I visited Durnbach cemetery last summer with my father & brothers & found it very moving,we also visited the village of Seckbach which is where the aircraft crashed,though we didn't know the exact spot,just to visit the area was something.
I don't have a picture of your uncle,only of my grandfather with 2 members of the crew:Sgt J.G.E.Laflamme(Flight engineer) & F/Sgt R.Holmes(Bombaimer),however,when i was at Durnbach i did photograph your uncle's headstone which i would be more than happy to send you a copy of.
Hope this is of some help,

Regards,Ian Rands.

 
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(Login MZ589-Matt)
216.221.93.11

Halifax LK973.

March 13 2007, 9:49 PM 

Hi Ian,

I also lost a family member with 431 squadron (July 29, 1944) and run a website in tribute to bomber command aircrews. I have been trying to amass photos of all the airmen of 431 squadron as our National Archives seem to be light on them.

At any rate I was wondering if you would consider having the photo you spoke of posted in the 431 Squadron photo gallery that is on my website? I also have some other info on 431 there as well.

You can view the gallery here..

http://www.bombercrew.com/WGSorel/431gallery.htm

If you are interested please drop me an email.

Cheers!
Matt


 
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