I would stop guessing at who will make the team because too many political factors affect the selection process and the selection committee are influenced too much by the OHL Clubs and Agents. Hope you have a good one on your side in both cases if you want to make the team.
The list at the top is about right with a couple of exceptions. Take Werek out and insert Fine,he deserves it for the year he is having. Also remove Corrente as he has seen little playing time with Oshawa this year.
Insert Hermenegildo. Recently he has been performing like one of the best rookie defencemen in the OHL. Missed the first half dozen games with a shoulder injury and is playing like a veteran on the PP. The rest of his game playing with poise. Had his first fight and passed.
Your obviously the mother or father of Peter but the fact remains that Sudbury sucks this year. Its one thing to QB the PP but another to play in your own end. If Peter works on his D game he will be fine.
thsi team is always filled with guys who play ohl so expect those guys to make it most guys playin ncaa the oha or ohf or who ever usually fills them in with the last spots
This process is a juggling act between trying to pick the best players, trying to make sure you include at least one player from every OHL team, trying to stick to your list of 35 published in July, trying to keep a decent representation from all the minor hockey leagues in the province, trying to keep agents happy, etc., etc. I think most would agree the process is flawed. Lets do away with the ridiculous camps and lists and save eveyone alot of agrevation by just picking the team as they see fit in November. Too many kids/parents are lead down the garden path attending these camps and paying the money and wasting their time when this process has zero to do with the final selections. Good luck to all and congratulations to those that will represent Ontario this year.
It will be announced tomorrow but all kids picked were called last night. Interesting how they will do. For the kids that made it, congrats. For the kids that did not make it, is a very political process, just keep working hard and don't get discouraged.
84.16.235.78...you seem a bit nervous about the picks? Don't worry, it's only a list of potential players. I personally feel it is a big achievement for Hermenegildo to get an invite after not being on the original list. Bit of a "come from behind" story.
Team Ontario Roster
2008 World Under-17 Hockey Challenge
PLAYER NAME
POSITION
HOMETOWN
2007-08 TEAM
Andrew Agozzino
F
Kleinburg
Niagara Icedogs (OHL)
Casey Cizikas
F
Mississauga
Mississauga St. Mike’s Majors (OHL)
Brett Cook
D
Washago
Huntsville Otters (OPJHL)
David Corrente
D
Mississauga
Oshawa Generals (OHL)
Taylor Doherty
D
Cambridge
Kingston Frontenacs (OHL
Matthew Duchene
F
Haliburton
Brampton Battalion (OHL)
Ryan Ellis
D
Hamilton
Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
Brett Flemming
D
Burlington
Mississauga St. Mike’s Majors (OHL)
Taylor Hall
F
Kingston
Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
Peter Hermengildo
D
Thornhill
Sudbury Wolves (OHL)
Joey Hishon
F
Stratford
Owen Sound Attack (OHL)
Peter Holland
F
Caledon
Guelph Storm (OHL)
Zach Kassian
F
Lasalle
Peterborough Petes (OHL)
Colt Kennedy
F
Ajax
Sarnia Sting (OHL)
Michael Latta
F
St. Clements
Ottawa 67’s (OHL)
Daniel Maggio
D
Lasalle
Sudbury Wolves (OHL
Ryan Martindale
F
Brooklin
Ottawa 67’s (OHL)
Bryce O’Hagen
G
Burlington
Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds (OHL)
Ryan O’Reilly
F
Varna
Erie Otters (OHL)
Tyler Randell
F
Brampton
Belleville Bulls (OHL)
Ethan Werek
F
Goodwood
Stouffville Spirirt (OPJHL)
Michael Zador
G
Toronto
London Knights (OHL)
2007-08 TEAM ONTARIO PERSONNEL
Director of Operations
Robert Kitamura
Hamilton
OHL Central Scouting
Head Coach
Jason Brooks
Listowel
Guelph Storm (OHL)
Assistant Coach
Jake Grimes
Belleville
Belleville Bulls (OHL
Assistant Coach
Mario Cichillo
St. Catharines
Niagara Icedogs (OHL)
Head Trainer
Shane Mabey
Guelph
Guelph Storm (OHL)
Equipment Manager
Doug Robertson
Guelph
Guelph Storm (OHL)
Assistant to the Director
Victor Carneiro
Toronto
London Knights(OHL)
The selectors did a nice job making sure most OHL teams had representation. Of 22 players picked, 2 were Tier 2 but both have OHL affiliation (Werek Kingston and Cook Erie). The only OHL teams not to have representation are Barrie, Kitchener, Plymouth and Saginaw. The other 16 teams all have representation and the following teams have 2, Ottawa, Kingston (if you include Werek), St. Mikes, Sudbury, Erie (if you include Cook) and Windsor. Four OHL teams had no representation. Kitchener and Plymouths 1st rounders were both American, so they really don't count so that leaves Lebar for Barrie and Pachis for Saginaw as first rounders that could have made it to give representation to those teams (I guess someone had to be left out so their agenda would not be too obvious). Other first rounders that didn't make it were Shug from Oshawa (I guess his holding-out at the beginning of the year cost him, but obviously secured Corrente's spot even though he may have made it regardless. Also Mayer who hasn't reported to the OHL. I guess they chose to crucify him instead of Werek and that pretty much opened the door for O'Hagon to make the team so there was someone from the Sault (I guess Perugini got the shaft there since Ottawa allready had 2 guys on the team). So the moral of this story ladies and gentleman is that the entire process of all those ridiculous camps and lists is a complete and utter farce and has been every year. The OHL teams dictate the picks, not independent evaluators. But year after year kids will attend these camps with the false hope they actually have a chance at making the team if they have good camps. I have some suggestions. Either pick the team before the OHL draft, don't have camps and just pick the team, or let each OHL team nominate one player from their team and let the coaching staff fill the rest of the holes after that.
Team Ontario Roster
2008 World Under-17 Hockey Challenge
PLAYER NAME POSITION HOMETOWN 2007-08 TEAM
Michael Zador G Toronto London Knights (OHL)
Bryce O’Hagen G Burlington Sault Ste. Marie Ghounds (OHL
Brett Cook D Washago Huntsville Otters (OPJHL)
David Corrente D Mississauga Oshawa Generals (OHL)
Taylor Doherty D Cambridge Kingston Frontenacs (OHL
Ryan Ellis D Hamilton Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
Brett Flemming D Burlington Miss St. Mike’s Majors (OHL)
Peter Hermengildo D Thornhill Sudbury Wolves (OHL)
Daniel Maggio D Lasalle Sudbury Wolves (OHL
Andrew Agozzino F Kleinburg Niagara Icedogs (OHL)
Casey Cizikas F Mississauga Miss St. Mike’s Majors (OHL)
Matthew Duchene F Haliburton Brampton Battalion (OHL)
Taylor Hall F Kingston Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
Joey Hishon F Stratford Owen Sound Attack (OHL)
Peter Holland F Caledon Guelph Storm (OHL)
Zach Kassian F Lasalle Peterborough Petes (OHL)
Colt Kennedy F Ajax Sarnia Sting (OHL)
Michael Latta F St. Clements Ottawa 67’s (OHL)
Ryan Martindale F Brooklin Ottawa 67’s (OHL))
Ryan O’Reilly F Varna Erie Otters (OHL)
Tyler Randell F Brampton Belleville Bulls (OHL)
Ethan Werek F Goodwood Stouffville Spirirt (OPJHL)
I agree with the post above that this whole process is a farce...very political...making sure that everybody is happy on as many OHL teams as possible...the evaluators are there as a facade...don't have much say and even the coaches don't have much say on who they like...money also talks which is why Mayer was crucified over the other one! that's my opinion for what it counts.
All the players selected are talented. No matter who is picked team Ontario will allways be well represented. What I don't like is when a kid goes through all the camps, makes the final list, plays well in the current season and then someone who never made the final list comes out of no where doing nothing special and bumps this kid off the team for political reasons. That is the problem I have with this system. Also, after all the regional camps were done and players were selected to go to final camp the OHL draft takes place. Then all of a sudden there are players at the final camp that never made it through their regional camp and these same players are fast tracked right onto the team. I know there is alot of BS at the regional camps as well and good players get overlooked, but if you have a process then stick by it or if you are admitting the process doesn't work then do away with it. Name one player on this year's team that was some unknown quantity that impressed so much at camp that he earned his spot. I thought so, case closed.
the problem really is ther are more then 22 players who could play on this team so to say others should make it. its hard to pick someone to get rid of
I certainly agree that Ontario could probably field 2 very good teams. But the point I was trying to make is the process is flawed, in fact corrupt is probably a better term. If you read my long winded post earlier I think that says it all. And this year is no different than past years, in fact it probably got worse because the head guy is a puppet to the OHL GM's and to the league that pays him as head of central scouting.
Keep in mind that this is a "Team" they are selecting and not an All-Star squad.
You cannot have a team of all engineers - you need some plumbers and electricians as well.
The Regional Camps are NOT intended to pick the team - it is an evaluation process to see ALL kids - the Team is just the end result.
Lots of NHL'ers never even made it to regional camps in this process and half the U-17 team will never see an NHL contract (thats the average for Team Ontario since this program started in 1986!)
This same discussion takes place each year - players and the parents who make it are quietly happy - and those who don't say the system is flawed.
Welcome to the world of hockey folks! For every player like your son - there are 100 others equal or better than your child.
Wait till the NHL draft comes in '09 with an even stronger pot of coffee for everyone!
I am talking about pretty obvious corruption in this program. They put out the kool-aide and parents eat it up. Anyone with half a brain knows the realities of making it to pro hockey. That is not what this is about. It is about outright lying to kids that these camps and what they do in them means alot towards the selection process. I guess it does until an OHL GM exercises their power to get "their player" on the team at the expense of another who went through the entire program successfully and drank the kool-aide along the way. It happens every year. My vote would be to abandon this entire U17 program and U18 program and just pick the world junior team when the time comes. These programs have no bearing on who makes the world juniors and we all know it.
"My vote would be to abandon this entire U17 program and U18 program and just pick the world junior team when the time comes. These programs have no bearing on who makes the world juniors and we all know it."
Yea, bang on!!! How much did it cost for someone to get the privelage of doing all the U17 camps? How much does the OMHA make from all the camps & lower level players participating?
It's a scam. If it really were to be used to work toward the world Jr. Program it should not even cost the players 1 penny.
99.224.207 made one interesting remark. Those whose kids make the team are "quietly happy". Well I would be too if I was one of the boys that never made the final list and then suddenly find myself on the team. Or if I was a second rounder making the team because the 1st rounder on my OHL club didn't show up in the OHL or is in somebody's bad books for past behaviour. If there is to be any honor in this process at the very least the team should come from the final list of 35. After the OHL draft the U17 brass added players to the final camp to correct the suppossed errors made at the regional camps. Alot of people had a problem with that, but I didn't because those regional camps are an even bigger joke and some good players were overlooked. But at least by the time the final list is made no one of significance should have been overlooked. So, to put a kid on the team who was never on the final list, IMO, that kid better have done something pretty special before bumping a kid who was on the final list. And I also believe for the program to have credibility all the players on the final list who did not make the team are owed some sort of a constructive evaluation by the U17 brass. I mean, there are only maybe 15 kids on the final list that didn't make it so it shouldn't be too big of a task.
I really hate being the one to constantly point things out but again "It happens every year".
People always harp about "corruption" and "collusion" in the selection process. I'll agree that selection to the regional camps is somewhat tainted with political favouritism however the final selections are based entirely on the performance of the players from September until now. In fact a player who didn't make it past the regional camp can still be selected to the final team.
We can argue about certain players left off or certain players selected but we don't make the selections, others do. The success of the program in Ontario speaks for itself plain and simple.
It is too bad if our own kids aren't selected or if our friend's kids are omitted but that's life. It is not all about keeping the OHL teams "happy" these teams loose their promising players for a time while the U-17 tournament is underway so you could argue that the OHL teams are encumbered by the program.
This year's Team Ontario U-17 looks pretty good and should have a great deal of success.
I agree with the above post. It's mostly about your performance from Sept to date. In fact, one of the kids on the team didn't make the list from the evaluation camp process and was very disappointed (politics). I told him that he would make it because he was going adapt well to the OHL. And he did, and the rest is history.
Having said that, I also agree with the person who said "for every player who makes it there are 100 players who are just as good." For the kids who made it, it's a great experience and experience breeds confidence and confidence makes you a better performer. OHL teams know this and that is why they want their kid to play on the team. For the players who didn't, use this as a motivational tool. Prove them wrong.
TO 74.12.122 you are bang on. It is not an evaluation of September to now, the September to now stuff was supposed to only augment what they saw all of last season and at the regional and final camp, otherwise why have the camps. With respect to your comment about the goalies, that is pretty cut and dry. Once Zador was drafted by London it was a guarantee he would be the #1 goalie on the team. He wasn't even selected out of the GTHL camp, but that was probably more due to the fact that there were at least 3 top end goalies in the GTHL and only one could make it through (being Zador, Stajcer and Perugini and Perugini made it through I believe). Having said all that if I was picking the team I would have had Zador as one of my goalies (but he has just come back from a long injury so who knows how ready he will be to play). So wouldn't then I want to pick the next best goalie from my list (Dupuis, Foote or Perugini) since at least those 3 made it through all the camps and you had ample time to assess all their abilities. Instead they go off the chart to select a goalie from the Sault who has only played 3 games this year and has been on the losing end of 2 of them playing for one of the best teams in Canada. This is not a knock on the kid, but what could he have possibly shown in those 3 games (of which how many of them did the U17 guys even see) that vaulted him onto the team ahead of the other 3 guys who went through the whole process? I think my theories about this have been previously posted. Same thing with the defenceman from Sudbury, did he perform so much better in the games he played this season to justify bumping a kid who was on the final list. I guess that is up for debate too.
"I wish them well also but how can you pick a goalie who has not dressed one game for his OHL team over one who has dress and won games in the OHL?"
Zador actually dressed as backup for one game with London but did not play. He is currently playing Jr B in Petrolia and has started 2 games. his numbers are pretty bad but he has been injured. Record 0-2-0
O'hagen has started 3 games for the OHL Soo. His numbers are below average as well. Record 1-1-1
Perugini has started 5 games in Ottawa. Numbers are also bad. Record 2-3-0
This could be an opportunity for U17 brass to take a 3rd goalie from another league who has played more and played well.
Tier II - Foote, Hogan, Stacjer, Dupuis, Ginn (these boys have played a bit more than the OHL goalies)
Midget - Cooper, Rylett, Lapera (these boys have played a lot)
Cook never played an exhibition game with Erie and never signed an OHL contract, so his NCAA eligiblity is fully intact.
He went back to Huntsville to ensure himself a lot more playing time, as Erie had 7 returning defenseman. Looks like his plan worked as far as the U-17 team goes.
As for pointing out the goalies records or stats, you cannot compare the level of Tier 2 or midget hockey to OHL and neither the stats. Also, when you are looking at stats for OHL goalies look at the team they are on and the teams they played against and that might paint a clearer picture for you. If you are evaluating the goalies fairly, Zador was on the final list (as an add-on) and has not played a game in the OHL this year. O'Hagon has played 3 games in the OHL and was not on the final list. Perugini was on the final list and has played 5 games in the OHL. Dupuis and Foote have not played in the OHL but were on the final list. If the competition is supposed to be Major Junior calibre players then wouldn't you want a goalie with the most major junior experience possible. Don't forget, by the time the tournament starts Perugini may have played another 3 or 4 games, O'Hagon at his current pace maybe 1 or 2, Zador maybe 1 or 2 if London rests Mason and Foote and Dupuis likely won't. So if I am picking the team Zador is in solely on the fact that he was a first round pick and if healthy will play well. You can debate the other spot for ever but all logic seems to point to Perugini based on games played in the OHL and track record as a big game goalie. If not, then I guess you have to go to O'Hagon only based on the fact he has played in the OHL. No slight to Dupuis or Foote, maybe had Zador not been hurt and played a few games in the OHL it would have opened the door for a goalie from Tier 2. But I think they wanted someone with OHL experience and since Zador didn't have it yet, O'Hagon was the politically correct choice since the Sault didn't have a guy on the team and Perugini's team allready had 2 guys on the team. I assume they have an alternate goalie in case of injury and I assume that would be Perugini. Anyone know.
In the big picture you are right, true talent will ultimately prevail. It still doesn't ease the pain for those kids who were left off the team so a bigger agenda could be achieved.
congratulations to all the kids that made the team. I hope you all have a great tournament and show everyone that Ontario still produces good quality players. I look forward to watching you all and hope everyone else supports you like I will.
It's too bad you people really don't get it. My kid didn't make the team, yet you don't see me complaining. It's only made him more resolved. In fact, he plans to keep training hard until he's 22. He's given me his own evaluation of the players on that team and believes that he will get there too. Just a different way.
that's what's bothering my son ...he has been woking /training with high performance athletes, has more pts and playing ice time than some of the guys chosen and still did not get picked because of politics...wont' say which politics because it would reveal his name!!! All I can say is believe me there is a lot of **** happening at the selection level!
Nobody out there that deserve a spot more than any of these 22 kids selected. Some might deserve it just as much but it's all about numbers. This will be a relatively slow, but tough rowdy team.
Some of you people just don't get it. This is not about who should have made it and who shouldn't have, that could be debated forever no matter what the selection process. The point is because of obvious agenda's that need to be filled (i.e. trying to cover every OHL team, making sure there are a couple of Tier 2 guys, making sure that every minor league is well represented, etc., etc.,) that it really makes the whole "evaluation process" a farce. So, if you happen to be the only 16 yr old on a particular OHL team you have a great chance of being selected because your OHL team needs representation. If you are one of 3 or 4 really good 16 yr olds on an OHL team your chances decrease because they rarely pick more than 2 guys from one OHL team (i.e. look at this years list). All the players selected are good players, but many would not have made it if the ONLY criteria was picking the best 22 without achieving the above noted agendas.
finally some common sense...I like your take on the whole process...other better players could have made the team but due to the 'keep everybody happy attitude' that's the best team they could come up with...the world is not perfect!
"finally some common sense...I like your take on the whole process...other better players could have made the team but due to the 'keep everybody happy attitude' that's the best team they could come up with...the world is not perfect!"
I took the time to test your gripe. I went to the ohl site and noted every ontario 1991 player not listed on the u17 squad. I have also noted 6 of the top tier II 1991 scorers that I could find. scoring pts are also noted.
also. 4 ohl teams not represented are barrie, kitchener, plymouth, saginaw
no players from the north of the 5 OHF leagues.
Regards the selected team, i just cant see which players should not be on the team. if i had to add players imho it would be from the tier II list. they all represent speed and skill.
regards selection agendas, if it were ohl vs ncaa then the one glaring choice would have been werek, who has completely shunned the ohl and cook who has not officially committed the ohl or ncaa.
sorry boys, cant see you side at all.
my take on this team is as i have seen already posted. they will indeed be big and tough. will also likely have the overall slowest team in defense and one of the fastest on offense. goaltending will be a push.
To 70.52 your anlaysis is accurate and we could debate the relative merits of players on the team vs players not on the team. That is not my point. My point is that the evaluation process is tainted due to the multiple agendas that need to be fullfilled. The OHL draft pretty much guaranteed some kids would be on the team no matter how they did at camps or if they even made it through camps and it also guaranteed that others would not due to the numbers game. As for Werek, the U17 wanted to make a point for kids that snub the O but also don't want to make it too obvious. So Werek is in since he was drafted higher and Mayer from the Sault was out (he also snubbed the OHL and became the scapegoat). Many have said Mayer is lighting it up in Tier 2 in Kingston. This team is picked much like an allstar game, make sure everyone is represented. Do you think if the U17 had a disproportionate number of players from one minor hockey assoc. that the other associations would continue to support their program by holding camps and fundraising for the ultimate team? Absolutely not, so everyone gets their proportionate representation. Do you think the A and AA kids attending some of those camps had any hope in hell of making the team (never has happened to my recolection). Look at past years teams and there are only 2 Tier 2 guys every year and the same sort of spreading out of the talent between OHL clubs and minor hockey associations. Changes need to be made and my first suggestion would be the team should be finalized before the OHL draft and just leave a few alternate spots available that they can announce in November. That would eliminate alot of the agendas.
The way it's being done now is not perfect, but it still beats picking a team based on what they do in tryouts and exhibition games prior to the OHL draft. In my opinion, the way you perform in the OHL is the final evaluation because the adjustment from minor midget to OHL is huge step.
With regards to the Tier II picks, Werek is deserving and would be one of their top 6 forwards. Brett Cook does raise an eyebrow, he's a great player, however Jordan Mayer is putting up #'s in Tier II while Cook has 3 points.
Cook is a D. Mayer is a forward. Can't compare them.
In my opinion there is no point in trying to justify a D pick based on points. FYI the '91 Tier II D with the most points hasn't even been mentioned in this thread. I take that to mean that most of you would agree.
Sure you want a player like Ellis because he can generate offense. However, he can also defend pretty well. While Corrente hasn't put up great offensive numbers, you want him on the team because he defends well, is tough, is smart and has a hell of a shot (regardless of whether or not that translates into points).
Lowry got hurt and missed the first several weeks of the season, so that puts him behind the 8 ball in terms of trying to impress at either the OHL or Tier II level.
Not sure what's up with the Flemming pick. He hasn't had much impact at either St Mikes (OHL) or Burlington (Tier II) in the games I've seen.
Some of the players on this team did not make it based on their performance at regional or final camps or even what they are doing this season (hell some of the players on the team didn't even make it to final camp). They made it based on the numbers working in their favour in terms of balancing out representation from the OHL teams, Tier 2 and minor hockey associations. That is where you may find your answers to the questions as to why certain players made it and certain players didn't. This is an OHL run affair and therefore there are many biases. The U18 final roster should be a little less political because it is supposed to be all of Canada (allthough I am sure they want to make sure the numbers work between OHL, WHL, QMJHL and just a "pinch" of Tier 2 guys). The sad part is, that any of the players that didn't make the U17 team (and should have) will never have a crack at the U18 camps because that is just the way this process works. Their last hope is the U20 World Juniors 2 or 3 yrs down the road.
At least I can spell and provide some facts. Maybe while I am getting over myself you can pull out that grade 1 english book that is also substituting as the coffee table in your mobile home and read it. If you can't, walk outside into the trailer park and see if you can find someone who can help you.
I question why Werek got the nod over Jordan Mayer.
Both very good players who are currently in Tier II. Werek was injured at the start of the season and therefore doesn't have as many games played or points as Mayer. Mayer was injured for 5 games in late September/early October.
Mayer is 22-11-23-34 (Games-Goals-Assists-Points) Werek is 14-8-15-23. Points per game slightly favour Werek 1.64 to 1.55. However, 12 of Werek's points (52%) are on the PP, none on the PK and he hasn't scored a game winning goal. Mayer has 15 points on the PP (44%), 2 on the PK and 2 game winners.
To me this points to Mayer being the better scorer under more difficult circumstances (even strength and short handed). He has also scored goals that were the difference in the outcome for his team, while Werek has not.
One final point, albeit a minor one, Mayer has 10 minutes in penalties Werek has 38 minutes. The more intense the competition the more important discipline becomes.
If I could pick any Tier II forward for the U-17 team I would chose Mayer over Werek.
Werek dominated the game in Aurora last night. Werek plays in a much better division the north, while Mayer plays in probably the worst division in JR. Werek is better.
Ok, since you ask the question of who should be and who shouldn't be on the team here is my opinion. If you are going to go through a process of regional camps and a final camp then you should respect the process you set-up. Never mind then inviting to the final camp players that didn't make it through their regional camp because you were pressured or made a blatant mistake. It is not fair to those kids that busted their butts to impress at regional camps and final camps and then lose their spot to a kid who just gets a free pass to the team. So, you can debate who should have made the team, but based on the above criteria the following players would not be on the team (Zador, Ohagon, Corrente, Werek, and maybe a few others I may have missed). Please feel free to fill in the missing names.
If you were privy to the meetings held with the coaches, staff and players at ALL camps (now I know why they don't include the parents), the purpose of the U-17 Camps is not to pick a team.
Its made clear to every participant at the meetings before the camp starts.
The U-17 program in ALL PROVINCES is an evaluation process and an introduction to the Hockey Canada program of excellence whereby the weekend's activities are built towards having the kids being exposed to good competition, team building, nutrition, fitness, exposure to all higher levels like OHL, OHA, NCAA, CIS teams etc.
For some reason, people seem to believe that the process is all about "picking" a team. It may be the end result of the process, but the camps are part of a Hockey Canada program to expose kids to a higher level of hockey.
Somewhere there is a disconnect for parents who are only through the U-17 process once (unless you have more than one kid), but its never been intended solely as a process to pick a team.
If you believed otherwise its only if you've been in minor hockey as a parent - not a player, coach, referee, volunteer etc since the program began in 1985.
You obviously know alot about the program and some of your points are well taken. I think then we agree on one thing and that is that the camps are not the ultimate determining factor in selecting the team. But have I not convinced you via earlier posts that there are multiple agenda's that must be achieved when selecting the team and every OHL GM has some say in achieving these agenda's (especially when the tournament is held on OHL turf)? And it is these agenda's that allow kids to get "free passes" to the team and other kids to have no hope of getting on the team no matter what they are doing on the ice now or what they did at the camps!
99.248.79.93 it's obvious there are politics in the selection of the U17 team, but there are politics at every level of hockey. It seems to me that this may be the first time YOUR boy has been bit by it. Whether or not it's right or wrong is arbitrary, but for you to come on here and take away from the fact that the boys on the team are less deserving than yours, shows you truly have very little character and I feel sorry for your kid and this crybaby lesson you are teaching him.
You need to accept the fact that perhaps your boy just isn't good enough, or that you didn't do enough ass kissing, or that sometimes, life sucks and doesn't go your way.
Stop blaming the system and the admistration for your fantasies of hypothetical untruths. This team is going to rock with or without your kid, and if has the same attitude and values that you express here, the system and the administration did and excellent job of weedng him/ and you out.
This discussion is not about "my boy". You obviously haven't paid very close attention to the posts. Of course the team will be good, we could probably fill 2 or 3 good team Ontario's. As far as "cry baby" attitude goes you don't even know who I am or what my motivation for these posts is. If it was just about "my boy" I honestly wouldn't give a damn because you are correct politics is part of hockey and things don't allways go your way but the cream will eventually rise to the top. This discussion is about poor kids lead down the garden path by a corrupt system that takes their money and leads them to believe that everyone is on an even playing field when the realties are very different. If you don't see the corruption in this program, then I pitty you. Keep drinking the Kool-Aide friend. Enjoy the tournament with "your boy".
corrupt????Perugini stopped Tavares in a shoot today 4 out of 5 times...won the game against Oshawa, a first place team but he is not good enough for the under17 team?????? What a pile of c r a p!
Lets get the facts straight. Zador is a very good goalie hampered by the injury bug and likely would have made the team on his own merits had he been playing. But, his spot was locked-up by being drafted by London in the first round. It certainly wasn't locked-up at the OHL Cup (I believe his team lost in the final) and I also believe the GTHL U17 camp was held after the OHL Cup and Zador was not selected to go on to final camp.
There is no process. At the end of the day is all about keeping Agents, Teams, GM's happy. Almost every team has to have some representation. Do some deserve to be there because they are outstanding kids and amazing players, probably not, but they are there because they were drafted in the first round and GM's are not going to be embarrased. Do other kids deserve to be there, absolutely, but there is only one Team Ontario. There is enough talent to fulfill 2 teams but only one goes to the tournament. It is what it is and it will continue to be the same. Some players have it easy (deserved or not deserved) and others have to work really hard to prove themselves - that is life - not always fair.
In 1988 the hockey structure was much different than today. I don't even know who you are talking about but I can guarantee you that situation will not happen again. And besides, what does that have to do with the politics of the U17 team. So they picked a diamond in the rough, everyone can get lucky occasionally. Really, all the players at this age are a crapshoot since we are talking about raw rookies and very young men. For sure there will be some player or players at this age group that are not even part of this discussion that will someday have us all shaking our heads saying where did this kid come from. But the point is that there were players identified through a lengthy evaluation process as being the "top" 35 candidates for this team and I believe the team should have come from these 35 to give credibility to this process. Honestly, I bet anyone who follows this age group in probably 5 minutes on the back of a match book cover could have picked the team and come out with a pretty good team. It is not rocket science to identify the top 5 or 6 guys that will make this team win. The rest probably could be interchangeable with other players and it wouldn't make much difference. So either respect your process or abandon it and just pick the team and save everyone alot of grief.
And the know-it-all award for 2007-2008 goes to...
99.248.79.93
This phucking mutt has a useless, generic opinion on everything and anything (have you noticed?). He obviously has enough time on his hands to make phucking coal!
In my humble opinion...I think this stuttering prick should go and phuck himself!
And you Angry Man obviously have alot of time on your hands to offer nothing but your limited vocabulary to this site. That is what these forums are for, to discuss, debate and make comments backed-up by facts. Not to trash people, players, and show what a drain on society you are. If I were your parents I would have you committed. If you are an adult, I hope to god you don't have kids. What a loser you are!
Limited vocabulary!!
****kin' eh!
Listen, Shakespeare, I realize that the boys on your loading dock are quite impressed with your book lernin' and such...but they are a touch fed-up with your hockey bull****. A little more broom pushin' and a little less chatter, OK Jethro. Now, about facts, debates, and discussions...Pal it's over!! Midget AAA is nothing but organized mayhem.
Absolute shiit hockey. That's a phukking fact, A-hole.
And what's with all this drain on society, have me commited, crap. Sheesh!
Did I spoil your fun?
"Mommy, Angry Man keeps wreckin' our hockey talk game, we're discussing and stuff...he, he ,he wah, wah "!!!!
And finally, I thank god you are not my parent because you are a complete dick.
I'm sure you are well loved on this forum, mr tough guy. Listen, if I helped you get it off your chest and you feel better then I don't want to deny you that pleasure since it appears with your attitude you are gonna face alot of dissappointments in your life. Have a nice day Mr. Angry Boy.
You know, Angry Man seems to have a sense of humour. If he would only keep it clean and constructive I think his posts might be interesting. So I throw out that challenge to you Angry Man to clean up your act. And please, give us your opinion on issues instead of shooting-down everyone else's opinion. Sounds like you play midget hockey, why are you so down on it. I think it is great hockey.
You know, Angry Man seems to have a sense of humour. If he would only keep it clean and constructive I think his posts might be interesting. So I throw out that challenge to you Angry Man to clean up your act. And please, give us your opinion on issues instead of shooting-down everyone else's opinion. Sounds like you play midget hockey, why are you so down on it. I think it is great hockey.
So many responses! Well ladies, I'm not up to any challenges, my opinion isn't worth
a clump of shiit, and my life is, truly, an ongoing disappointment. Boo, fukking, hoo. With respect to cleaning up my act??!!...it ain't an act, boss-man. I'm a bonified assshole.
Bottom line, fellas...the draft year is done for all you wannabe's and no matter how much crap, and bullshiit stats, you cut and paste into this forum from other sites, Midget AAA hockey is nothing but dregs and leftovers coupled with a whack of AA
replacements (look at me, dad, I'm playin' AAA).
Pal, ya gotta be new if you think this crap is good hockey.
I'm paying-off my mortgage faster than these dinks can skate. I'd rather watch you and your pals have a pillow fight.
Hey, not totally clean but getting alot better. So it sounds like you chose not to play midget hockey and instead pursue other things (like pay your mortgage). I hope that is going well and who knows, maybe you will get the itch to play again some day. Sounds like you have the gift of gab and your talents are being wasted posting on this site in such an "Angry" fashion. Got to go, a new shipment just came in.
It seems this word is the catch-all phrase used every single time a kid gets cut, and the parents need an excuse.
They don't even know what they are saying, but, they do know that when they say it was 'Politics', the rest of the parents will nod their heads in unison.
Politics is a catch-all phrase (maybe not the most appropriate one). Call it what you like, favouratism, nepitism, racism, stupidy, bribes, whatever. The point is if a "suspect" canditate is selected for a team or and obvious candidate is not then there is a reason beyond purely talent level and performance on the ice. A politician will take a platform on an issue not necessariy because it is the best platform for the common good, but is the most popular platform so he can get elected. Same thing in the selection of a team, sometimes the selectors have a platform (or hidden agenda) to appease certain teams, GM's, agents, etc. and will make a decision based on that criteria and not the talent level or work ethic of a player(s). Consequently certain players get screwed and others catch a break. If it is not obvious to you that this is what goes on in the U17 team, World Juniors, All Star Teams, Real Life then you are living in a fantasy world. The real world is often corrupt and why should hockey be any different. So the point of this whole rant over the last little while was simply to "inform" people that have kids coming-up to this program to not get your hopes up to high if your kid is excelling on the ice because you may find yourself on the outside looking in when they choose a less deserving candidate because of "POLITICS"! Then you will know what we are talking about.
In a nutshell: politics stands for politician, which stands for dis-honest or liars and cheats. In other words there is plenty of liars and cheats in rep hockey.
It doesn't seem to me that Flemming belongs on the U-17 team.
He has only played 10 games in the OHL with St Mikes.
No goals, 4 assists. His +/- is decent at +5.
He has also played 14 games in the OPJHL with Burlington.
No goals, 1 assist. The OPJHL doesn't keep +/- stats.
While it is tough to tell from just this information, I would have expected a U-17
calibre player to be one that is dominant at the Tier II level. This doesn't seem to
be the case with Flemming. Having said that, there doesn't appear to be another '91 defenseman playing in the OHL that is better (in terms of games played, points and +/-) than Flemming.
Perhaps they should have selected another Tier II defenseman from among those that are playing significant minutes on their teams such as Robertson, Campbell, Zanetti, Nyberg or McEachen, or the de Haan kid who is playing Junior B in the Ottawa area league. de Haan was selected to represent the East in the CJAHL Prospects game in which Werek, Mayer and Corey Bureau are also playing.
The de Haan kid is playing for the Kemptville 73's Junior "A" hockey team. He was drafted # 1 overall to the Central Junior Hockey League in the Ottawa area.
21 points so far, Rookie of the Month!
Yes, he is on Team East.
Just goes to show how weak the crop of defensemen is with the 91's. Great group of forwards (I'd take the next 12 forwards with guys like Shugg, Szwarz, Mayer, Erlich etc. anyday to that tournament).
Last year with the 90's it was the other way around: An unbelievable group of defensemen and goaltenders to choose with a just above average number of quality forwards.
Its a matter of supply and demand each birth year.
Last year with the 90's it was the other way around: An unbelievable group of defensemen and goaltenders to choose with a just above average number of quality forwards.
One of the above average forwards is a possible #1 NHL pick, how many more do you need when he plays half the game and gets all the points?
Hard to judge since last year it was only Canadian teams because it was part of the Canada Winter Games. This year the competition should be much stiffer with the US and some teams from Europe.
Who would agree that Perugini will eventually be on the U17 with O’Hagan? I saw Zadors stats in Jr. B and they are horrible, not U17 calibre. Is the U17 selection this screwed up? So what if he was picked in the 1st round. Many 1st rounders haven't made it in the next level and Zador could be part of that long list. As someone who has OHL experience, Perugini should be there otherwise, hope that O'Hagan stays healthy.
Perugini is playing amazing in the OHL. He certainly has more experience than any 91 goalie. Let's hope the U17 goalies going to London do just as well.
Bye the way Ottawa just won against Owen Sound, faced 41 shoots and no goals agains..... Congrats Chris.
I was at the OHL Cup and Zador was the reason Marlies even reached the final. Zador has been injured and when push comes to shove, my money is on Zador. He covers more net.
The OHL Cup is yesterdays news. WHO CARES!!!! Also, stop discounting the play of a powehours team in front of him. You make it seem that it was a one man show which is far from the truth. What have you done for me lately? He's been back from injury (which was a minor sprained anckle), playing and practicing and the stats are not there. Over 6.5 GAA and the telling stat is a .830 save % in Jr. B hockey. 1 in 5 shots going in. At this time, based on CURRENT performance alone, he shouldn't even be dreaming of the U17.
The U17 team is picked and it won't change (unless there is an injury). In any event, if Zador or O'Hagon can't play I heard the alternate is Foote? For Perugini, it may be a blessing in disguise because it seems like he will be getting alot more icetime and experience in the OHL and that may give him an upper hand on the U17 goalies when it comes to U18 Team Canada camp.
Perugini best goalie at the 91 age group. this proves that U17 selection committee is a farce at more than the goalie level. Players on the Marlies use to cringe every time a shot was directed toward Zador last year and now he is the guy on the U17 team?????
I think you are being a little unfair to Zador, but for sure I was surprised that Perugini was not on this team. And it has nothing to do with what he is doing this year in the OHL (and good for him by the way). I just remember him as a big game goalie in minor hockey and isn't that what you want in a short tournament format? Zador was good also, but I just think Perugini was a little better under pressure. There will be lots of that with hopefully 9,000 people in the stands each game. As for the other goalie selected, I really don't know much about him and how he got on this team, but obviously someone liked him or he is there for some other reason none of us will ever figure out.
talking about it on here wont make a difference all are good goalies could have went either way if zador wasnt drafted to london would he be there we dont know but im sure they we'll play just fine maybe this will be better for perugini to play more ohl games while these guys may split or one wont play at all. If maxwell wouldnt have decided to be a yankee then we wouldnt be having this agrument on here remember that. good luck too all the goalies!!
Maxwell? Who the hell are we talking about? Is that the cocky kid from the Alliance (can't remember the team) who was coached by his dad. And isn't he from the same team Stajer played for but Stajer moved to the GTHL because he wasn't getting fair ice time? Isn't his dad also the coach of Guelph in the OHL? So why is he playing in the states?
Ah, so he is sort of like Brett Hull where he can choose which country to play for. Must be a nice luxury, especially for a goalie since there are only so many spots. I assume he will play for the US in the U17?
The team he played for was Cambridge. Maxwell is the best puck handler of all aforementioned goaltenders. Plays like Brodeur, not the best save percentage but can move the puck. Cocky.
Puck handling has now been limited for goalies with the new rules in Major Junior and Pro. Anyone know if that same restricted area applies to international hockey? If not is the U17 being played by international rules or Major Junior rules?
just a thought, but are the goalies that were picked still the best out there for the U17. I am not saying the ones that have been picked should not be there as I believe they should be, but have there been any goalies that have risen up over the past 6 months that might be of equal caliber or possibly surpassed? Just musing.......
Well, we know the final 4 on the U17 list were Zador, Perugini, Foote & Dupuis and we know O'hagon made it through the back door. So I think we have talked enough about what Zador, Perugini, O'hagon have done on this topic. Maybe someone can fill us in on how Foote & Dupuis are doing. I might add that Stajer has played a couple games for Owen Sound this year and looked pretty good and I believe is doing good in Junior B in Owen Sound as well. I think that covers most of the top goalies drafted, but perhaps some later draft picks have been excelling that we just haven't heard about.
CAMBRIDGE was the team...you seem to no everything but dont
remember the team?!!! there has been several posts regarding
this and as for the otaher goalie (stajer) if i do recall
he original started with the redwings (illegal player and
was suspended) after playing with cambridge for several years
and left (i always thought a little competion was good)stajer is
a good goalie but i hear his parents can be trouble as for maxwell he may be bettor off where he is (until erie gets there
act together)whats the matter did you get the political boot
exactly the team is picked get on to something else!!!
I don't think Maxwell is waiting for Erie to get their act together, I think he is waiting for a trade to Guelph so he can play for his dad again. Just a wild guess. As for Stajer, I don't even know the parents but you mentioned they could be trouble. Stories I heard was he was never going to get a fair shake in "Cambridge" cause obviously Maxwell's dad was going to give the quality ice time to his son. There really never was "healthy competition" as you put it, so please get off your high horse and if you are going to say things then tell it the way it really is.
just like you said STORIES and getting traded to guelph he would
be playing for barr not his dad and i never did say healthy
competition i said a little competition never hurt anyone you
seem to no more than you are willing to say (it never was healthy
competion??)hmmmm maybe you should get your facts straight or
just move onto another subject and leave the two of them alone!!
This topic is re U17, I didn't start the topic re Maxwell/Stajer if you read back carefully. Anyway, I agree on one thing, the topic is U17 and lets keep it at that. So back to the original question, what goalies are doing well that maybe were not on the U17 radar. I mentioned Stajer and asked if anyone know how Foote & Dupuis are doing. I know Foote plays in the OPJHL but does anyone know where Dupuis is playing and how he is doing?
Foote is not having a very good season, at least statistically, playing for Durham of the OPJHL. The team is in last place and pretty much out of playoff contention.
Brandon has 3 wins, 13 losses, 1 OT loss and 1 shutout. GAA is 5.10 and S% is .850
Matt Ginn, another '91 goalie, seems to be fairing better statistically, although he has only appeared in about half the number of games that Foote has. He is playing for Lindsay in the OPJHL. The team is 7th out of 8 teams and will be hard pressed to make the playoffs.
Matt has 4 wins, 4 losses with 1 shutout. GAA is 3.19 and S% is .887
Zador got the start last night vs. Saginaw and was pulled after one period. He let in 3 goals on 11 shots. Not sure whether the switch was due to his performance, an injury or just an attempt to "wake up" the team.
With the OHL's Christmas break starting today, Zador won't have an opportunity to play for the Knights again before suiting up for action at the U17.
Personally I think goaltending may be the weak link on the U17 team. Zador was injured and didn't start playing for the Petrolia Jets (Jr B) until November. He has appeared in 6 games going 0-5 with a 6.71 GAA and .833 S%. The team is weak 4 wins, 22 losses and 4 overtime losses but he certainly hasn't got stats that bode well for the U-17.
O'Hagan looks to be better statistically than Zador and he is playing at a higher level - albeit sparingly. He is 3-1-1 with a 2.70 GAA and .883 S%.
Personally I think that Perugini should be added to the team as he has performed quite well for Ottawa.
Re: Zador's debut in London & U17 goalie situation
December 16 2007, 2:25 PM
So far Zador hasn't made the Hunters look like the genius' that they are assumed to be. A poor showing at the U17's while being played in London will not bode well for the young man. The Hunters will not be made the fools.
Re: Zador's debut in London & U17 goalie situation
December 22 2007, 10:41 AM
check out the article in the kitchener record.
i thought he was one of the original cuts till his dad
started to cry! now he's getting ready for the 18s 20s
there are better on that team like ellis/maggio and maybe
others that should be there