| One!life > Question: vincelifeFebruary 17 2009 at 11:51 PM | One!life (no login) | |
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And when we speak of spirit
February 17 2009 at 3:19 PM
Vince (Login MoxiFox)
Sufi
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Response to a different thought...
Haven't we all -at some time or other- experienced a strange feeling in the air?
Is that just imagination ......... or do we pick up some kind of "vibration" that can't be measured with electronic instruments?
I went into a yoga meditation center one night -middle of the night- many years ago. It was really strange. This guy had access to the center (had a key) and he wanted to show it to me. I was pretty young ....... maybe 22 or 23 ...... and a devout Christian at the time, so I was a bit trepidatious about going into such a heathen place without "protection".
I was very surprised to find exactly the opposite of what I'd expected. There was a peaceful warm feeling in the air. The trappings were nothing particularly unusual and so it wasn't the scenery or the ambiance of people or architecture responsible for that feeling. Just the two of us in a quiet empty room at 2:00 AM.
I talked to my pastor about the experience and he, of course, told me that it was a seducing spirit.
I had a kind of deja vu experience of that when I went into the Mormon visitor's center in Salt Lake City. I was expecting to feel some kind of "prickles" and instead, the feeling was very peaceful.
Well ............ I'm not saying that these feelings were good or bad spirits but rather, that they were precisely opposite to what I'd anticipated both times. So if it was all in my imagination ........ why was it opposite to my expectations?
To me, it seems pretty evident that spirit exists ......... and that it's something which science hasn't ever been able to finger as anything real.
-Vince
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http://www.network54.com/Forum/411478/message/1234909198/And+when+we+speak+of+spirit
Vince's perception of God
February 16 2009 at 9:02 PM
Mondo (Premier Login Oscar50)
Forum Owner
Found this post below, interesting stuff:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/411478/message/1234838673/That+may+be+YOUR+perception+of+God
but not mine .......
I believe "God" to be ..........
A HUGE number of entities.
If/when you talk about the "God" of computers and computer systems being "good" or "evil" ....
Where do you start? Are computers good or evil? Are the developers of hardware and software good or evil? Which is good; which is evil?
In the computer model you see many similarities to creation. There are parasites, worms, viruses etc. Who done it? Who did the good stuff and who did the bad and useless stuff?
I think it's rather simplistic to speak of one single "God" and then label that entity as being benevolent, benign or malicious.
-Vince
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Mondo (Premier Login Oscar50)
Forum Owner
Elohim?
February 16 2009, 9:03 PM
So Vince, just wondering about your beliefs. Are you saying there are many supernatural entities, "gods"? No one supreme God, but more like a council or something?
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Vince (Login MoxiFox)
Sufi
Yes
February 17 2009, 12:38 AM
I don't have any hard and fast concept
of exactly who
or what
but I do believe
there were many entities involved
with starting life forms.
Even in the annals of religion,
there were many entities.
The concept of a single God
is purely Hebrew
and even then .......... they merely chose ONE God
out of the many ...
to be THEIR God.
(They figured they picked the winner -the most powerful
of the gods).
Genesis,
in the OTestament,
was borrowed from the Babylonians
and Genesis speaks liberally of Elohim -the gods.
Only because of the masking nature of translation,
do Christians not realize
that the Bible DOESN'T speak of a single God
(except where it suits the Hebrews).
Historically,
there are many paintings
showing UFO's
and they're reportedly still being seen today.
So-o ......... putting all the available evidence together ........
If there are gods,
there are lots of them
(or were lots of them at some time, anyway).
We ARE on an evolutionary trip
but .......... evolution didn't start by itself;
it's just the nature of the beast.
Anything self determining is going to evolve somehow
or other.
*******************************************************************
vincelife share'd > Suppose you were able to develop
a self perpetuating computer program
that created its own rules
and developed.
Well ......... invariably,
you would find it branching,
splitting and branching and as it progressed,
it would leave earlier parts of itself
behind ......... obsolete.
Ha ..... which gives me a thought .....
One!life > What's the thought give'n U-on debug!
More Questions Later!
One!life
vincelife share'd > What about developing programs
that self-analyze,
debug ......
and develop into more sophisticated applications?
Wouldn't THAT be great?
Instead of Vista now,
we would have a really well developed
XP ........ leaving older parts behind
(from lack of use)
and spawning into ever more refined,
sensible and mature protocols!~
******************************************************************
Of course, maybe not either.
Maybe it would narrow
itself into military objectives.
-Vince
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Striver(no login)
Yes
February 17 2009, 6:53 AM
I tend to agree with Vince.
These Entities are called Builders in Eastern teaching.
One definition of the Elohim:
A sevenfold power of Godhead;
the male-female Hierarchies
of creative Intelligences
or Potencies through which
the Divine produces the manifested Universe;
the unity of the powers,
the attributes
and the creatice activities of the Word.
"Elohim" is a plural name,
the singular form being Eloha...a god.
"Elohim" therefore, means "gods;"
personifications of the divine attributes
or the forces at work in nature.
The Elohim is considered a Unity
in the sense that they all work together as One,
expressing the Will,
Purpose,
or Harmony.
Thus their activities are regarded
as the manifestation of the Eternal One,
the Absolute.
"Elohim" might therefore be
explained as the"Unity of gods"
or the Activities of the Eternal One;
God revealing himself outwardly
as creative activity.
I copied this from Geoffrey Hodson's
"The Hidden Wisdom In The Noly Bible."
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Jackie(Login BlueJudah)
Bodhisattva
Vince,
I posted a link to this post at Esoterica
February 17 2009, 12:05 PM
I think it is very useful there.
But I will delete it
if you are not happy.
No problem.
Luv
Jackie
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Mondo (Premier Login Oscar50)
Forum Owner
Who are they?
February 17 2009, 3:02 PM
Where do they come from?
Self-existent beings perhaps?
I know in some of Sitchin's writings,
they are actual flesh & blood beings,
more advanced than we are.
Or, a hierarchy/network of spiritual beings
who just are ..
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Vince(Login MoxiFox)
Sufi
I couldn't begin to guess
February 17 2009, 3:45 PM
And did they always exist?
I don't know.
I think it's
as plausible to suggest that
somewhere, way, way back in time,
they came into existence via some kind of
cosmic accident
(the way evolution explains OUR existence).
What I contend mostly,
is that WE didn't come into existence by accident;
rather, that we came of design.
Maybe layers and layers back,
our "creators" came into existence
by accident
but our own existence
shows far too much structure
to have arrived in one
continual string of events.
I don't know if
I'm expressing myself quite clearly.
It's like looking at a computer motherboard
as an evolved entity.
On the surface, it just looks like a chunk of material.
Only with sophisticated equipment,
can one see the microscopically small cells
inside of the chips.
Then,
a scientist might try to determine
from the structure of the chips,
just how those chips
could have evolved .............. ASSUMING that ...... they came into being on their own
in some continuous sequence.
Well,
in fact, his assumptions would be extremely
off-base because modern motherboards are generations
removed from the first computers.
The first computers used NOTHING
that even resembles a chip.
They were humongous contraptions.
And even those earliest computers
were spawned from a myriad of other technologies,
such as glass making,
metalurgy,
machined parts,
electronic theory etc. etc.
that go W-A-Y back
to simpler and simpler technologies
until you get right down
to the stone age of making stone tools.
See, so ........... there's absolutely
no way to build a motherboard
with a stone tool.
In essence, there's no connection at all.
And yet there is
because ............ each layer of technology
fed into the next and next and next
until the motherboard could be built.
Yet, you'll not find a TRACE of stone tools
when you examine that motherboard.
-Vince
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I am having an identity crisis!(Login BlueJudah)
Bodhisattva
I responded below but will also add here
February 16 2009, 10:28 PM
It's not my conception of God.
I really don't have one.
I just like to hear
how others perceive a God,
a soruce,
or not,
to be...
I seem to have even
less of an idea these days
than I ever did before...
Indeed Vince,
where does one Start,
if we do Start anywhere
In The Beginning...
Jackie
This message has been edited by BlueJudah on Feb 16, 2009 11:09 PM
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Vince(Login MoxiFox)
Sufi
We don't have to start anywhere
February 17 2009, 12:40 AM
With anything.
Nothing HAS to be resolved.
We simply observe,
collect information
and process it.
-Vince
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Jackie(Login BlueJudah)
Bodhisattva
Agreed
February 17 2009, 12:53 AM
!
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Striver(no login)
I also agree
February 17 2009, 10:25 AM
Ingest, digest, assimilate, transmit.
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Jackie(Login BlueJudah)
Bodhisattva
Ingest, digest, assimilate, transmit.....
February 17 2009, 10:59 AM
Yeah. I like That!
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Kate (no login)
a different thought...
February 17 2009, 11:09 AM
And I'm still trying to work this out,
to make the puzzle pieces fit.
Maybe this post really belongs on the Esoterica board.
I believe God is Spirit.
God is not a man,
but humans -- male and female -- were created
in the image of God.
So we are in the image of God's spirit.
Christians talk about the Holy Spirit
dwelling in a believer,
or that Jesus can live in our hearts.
Jesus said, "Do you not believe that I am in the Father,
and the Father in me?
The words that I say to you
I do not speak on my own authority;
but the Father who dwells in me
does his works."
Hindus, Jains and Buddhists in India
and Nepal greet
and part with namasté -- "The light in me honors
the light in you"
or "I bow to that divinity inherent in you".
German philosopher Karl Christian Friedrich Krause
coined the term "panentheism"
to describe the concept
that everything in the universe
is contained within God,
like fish within a sea.
I think of spirit
as an indescribable, undefinable, intangible substance,
but it is what God is made up of,
and God puts some of that spirit into every person -- that
is how we are created in God's image.
God's image is love, goodness, kindness, patience, peace, mercy -- the qualities
that Christians refer to
as the "Fruit of the Spirit".
We have other things within us
that are not of God -- violence,
greed, selfishness, cruelty,
and every kind
of evil humans are capable of.
God wants to be
reconciled to every one of us,
for the spark of spirit within us
to be freed from everything evil
and to be rejoined with God,
with the Holy Spirit.
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Jackie(Login BlueJudah)
Bodhisattva
Oh yes, this does belong at Esoterica, Kate!
February 17 2009, 11:58 AM
Different thoughts about Creation
and evolution are bang on there
at the moment!
But since there is
a viable thread on the go here
then it's great you posted here.
I am not sure at all
what I think anymore.
But have been hearing
some ideas along the lines
you mention about being in 'God's' Image
but in a bit of a different way.
God had little gods on 'his behalf'
to seed loads of places
so there are many similar physically styled bodies,
ie human looking bodies.....
So in 'His Image'
may well be
but with reservations!!
"I think of spirit as
an indescribable, undefinable, intangible substance,
but it is what God is made up of,
and God puts some of that spirit into every person -- "
Kate,
when you sat 'that spirit',
well spirit is also something
that is featured
in a thread at Esoterica.
The spirit, the seed,
the bijas from the Ancient VEdic texts,
subtle energies,
the infusion of divine soul into matter.
I would like to add your post
under the Are any Earth people are indigenous to this planet?
post and hope this can become
a useful thread for sharing such ideas.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/623267/message/1234855755/Are+any+Earth+people+are+indigenous+to+this+planet-
It would be great here
but loads getting lost amongst
the political posts unfortunately.
At a website brilliantly discovered by Mondo,
Biped, there are a diversity of theories appearing:
To quote:
Intelligent Design Theory, Gaia Hypothesis,
Theory of Formative Causation, Vitalism,
Astrogenesis, Panspermia, Ballistic Panspermia,
Information Theory,
Systems Theory,
Extraterrestrial Seeding,
Genetic Manipulation
and some crossing, blending or borrowing
between these theories.
I have tinkered with the idea
that all is within,
'I am the observer
and that is all there is....'
So 'everything is contained within God, well, could be...
"We have other things within us
that are not of God "
I don't really understand
that at all though,
Kate,
UNLESS there is more
than Just a One God......
And we have heard here
from at least two people
who see 'Multiple Gods'.....or /
and entities.
I think I actually feel closer
to that at the moment,
but way open...
Kate,
thank you, sister
A wonderful post
and much to think about
and I will........
Luv
Jackie
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Kate (Login kateothelamp)
Sufi
sure thing...
February 17 2009, 6:34 PM
...I don't mind
at all that you cross-posted there. =)
I have gone on record
that I don't like cross-posting
for the sake of arguing
or "tattling" from one board to another,
it's so childish,
but this is a totally different circumstance.
I specifically mentioned Esoterica,
and you are right,
it fits with the topic very well there.
Besides, that's another of Mondo's boards,
and I'm very comfortable discussing either
there or here.
But since you replied here,
I'll respond here...and you are more
than welcome to copy both your posts
and mine to Esoterica instead
if you'd rather discuss it there -- LOL!
As you say, political posts
do tend to keep this board moving
rapidly at times.
Spiritual (not necessarily religious)
discussions are often thoughtful
and s-l-o-w-e-r...
Now, where were we?
Oh yes...
Jackie: Kate,
when you say 'that spirit',
well spirit is also something
that is featured in a thread at Esoterica.
The spirit, the seed,
the bijas from the Ancient Vedic texts,
subtle energies,
the infusion of divine soul
into matter.
This is something
I've never really studied,
but I'm interested to learn more.
One of the reasons I consider myself
a Christopagan is that my faith
is in Christ
and in the One God,
but I see evidence of the One God
in many world religions
and cultures -- and in nature,
in the cycle of the seasons,
the wheel of the year.
To me, it seems that so many religions
understand at least part of God,
views from different places
at different times,
even though the people
got some things right
and some things wrong.
But truth is truth,
and the threads of truth
can all be drawn together
from all of those sources
and woven into one fabric.
Jackie:
At a website brilliantly discovered by Mondo,
Biped, there are a diversity of theories appearing:
To quote:
Intelligent Design Theory,
Gaia Hypothesis,
Theory of Formative Causation,
Vitalism, Astrogenesis, Panspermia,
Ballistic Panspermia,
Information Theory,
Systems Theory,
Extraterrestrial Seeding,
Genetic Manipulation
and some crossing,
blending or borrowing between
these theories.
I'll look for a link to Biped...sounds fascinating...I'm
home sick with a horrible sore throat,
and will likely be home again tomorrow.
I just finished the novel
I've been reading,
so that will give me something new
and interesting to explore =)
Jackie:
"We have other things within us that are not of God "
I don't really understand that
at all though,
Kate, UNLESS there is more than Just a One God......
Well,
this comes from my belief
that God -- the Holy Spirit -- is all good.
There is nothing evil in God.
God is love,
truth, mercy, hope, peace, patience, kindness, joy, creativity.
So when God creates us in his image
(sorry, it's easier to just pick a pronoun,
and "his" comes easier to me,
because I don't think of God
as having gender,
but "it" sounds too impersonal to me,
too much like an object
instead of a being,
The Creator...)
Anyway, when we are created
in the image of God
(how's that, better? LOL)
then God puts that spirit into each of us,
the things that are of God.
For some people,
that spirit really shines,
and becomes the dominant force in their lives,
and you can really see God working within them.
But the other things within us
that are not of God
may be the result of our own internal struggles,
our own greed and selfishness and violence,
or maybe our personalities -- our hearts
and minds -- become warped by bad things
that happen to us.
And then we in turn, hurt others,
and introduce bad things into them as well -- like the child
who is abused, and then grows up
to be an abuser.
Spreading that spiritual damage
can be a vicious cycle.
When people try to describe God,
they tend to personify God
in a way that they can comprehend -- and they get
some of it right,
but with some of it,
they end up creating God in their image,
which is backwards
and wrong -- God does not have the human failings
we do.
That's how so many societies
had images of God
that were jealous, angry, vengeful, violent, unjust -- those
are not things of God,
who is completely without evil.
I can picture God,
the Spirit, like a vast,
endless, pool of crystal pure water.
Jesus used this imagery
when he told the Samaritan woman at the well,
"Everyone who drinks this water
will be thirsty again,
but whoever drinks the water
I give him will
never thirst.
Indeed, the water I give him
will become in him a spring
of water welling up to eternal life."
The spirit of God
within us gets muddied
and polluted by the bad things
in our lives:
our hatred, our jealousy, our anger, our hurts...like dirt
and sticks and mud and stones.
God wants our spirit
to be reconciled to him,
and when we are separated
from our mortal shell,
all of those bad things -- bad things we have done,
and bad things that have happened
to hurt us -- are filtered out,
and we can be poured back
into that pure spirit of God.
The Christian Bible uses different
imagery to describe this,
talking about all of our works -- whatever
we do in life,
how we interact
with our fellow man -- being tested
by fire. The things made of gems and precious metals
will be refined by the fire,
and the unworthy things made of wood, hay, and straw
will be burned away.
Wow, hope I didn't ramble too far off topic there...
Peace to you, dear Jackie =)
Kate
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Mondo (Premier Login Oscar50)
Forum Owner
It belongs at either forum
February 17 2009, 12:24 PM
To clarify, this forum, Co-Exist is an "any topic" forum.
Esoterica is more an anything-but-politics forum,
as politics can quickly overtake all topics at times.
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Vince (Login MoxiFox)
Sufi
And when we speak of spirit
February 17 2009, 3:19 PM
Haven't we all -at some time
or other- experienced a strange feeling
in the air?
Is that just imagination ......... or
do we pick up some kind
of "vibration" that can't be measured
with electronic instruments?
I went into a yoga meditation center
one night -middle of the night- many years ago.
It was really strange.
This guy had access to the center
(had a key) and he wanted to show it to me.
I was pretty young ....... maybe 22 or 23 ...... and
a devout Christian at the time,
so I was a bit trepidatious
about going into such a heathen place
without "protection".
I was very surprised
to find exactly the opposite
of what I'd expected.
There was a peaceful warm feeling in the air.
The trappings were nothing particularly
unusual and so it wasn't the scenery
or the ambiance of people
or architecture responsible for that feeling.
Just the two of us
in a quiet empty room at 2:00 AM.
I talked to my pastor
about the experience
and he, of course, told me
that it was a seducing spirit.
I had a kind of deja vu experience
of that when I went into the Mormon visitor's center
in Salt Lake City.
I was expecting to feel some kind
of "prickles" and instead,
the feeling was very peaceful.
Well ............ I'm not saying
that these feelings were good
or bad spirits
but rather, that they were precisely opposite
to what I'd anticipated
both times. So if it was all in
my imagination ........ why was it opposite
to my expectations?
To me,
it seems pretty evident
that spirit exists ......... and that
it's something which science
hasn't ever been able
to finger as anything real.
-Vince
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