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Australian military being gouged

May 1 2004 at 2:09 PM
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Diunei Lingyen  (Login Diunei)

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http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/30/1083224585200.html

Crash and burn: $1bn spy plane disaster

By Gerard Ryle and Brian Robins
May 1, 2004

The Federal Government plans to spend up to $1 billion on robot spy planes that have a track record of mishaps and crashes.

More than half of the seven prototypes of the unmanned Global Hawk - a central plank of the new $50 billion defence spending plan - have been damaged or destroyed through technical failure or misadventure.

The dismal record emerged as a Herald investigation found that a number of current defence projects including jet fighters, destroyers, helicopters and missiles - worth billions of dollars - have been hit by cost blow-outs or are behind schedule.

The Global Hawk disasters include one lost after a bolt was installed backwards during servicing, a potential $80 million mistake if it were to be repeated in Australia.

A second plane was lost after accidentally picking up a self-destruct signal that was designed to bring down a nearby missile.

A third was lost through engine failure, and a fourth was damaged after crashing when its US military handler made a typing error on a computer control pad.

Stephen Gumley, the new head of the Defence Materiel Organisation, which buys military hardware, has admitted that up to 24 major projects are overtime and over budget.

Dr Gumley said most of the problem projects were quite old but the Herald has found that many are current, including:  The Bushranger light armoured vehicle project, which has almost doubled in price to $329 million, and the vehicles have yet to enter full service.  Higher costs and likely delays for the $12 billion new-generation joint strike fighter.  A $1.5 billion blowout in the cost of air-warfare destroyers.  Multi-million-dollar cost increases on helicopter projects such as the Seahawk upgrade and the planned trooplift helicopter.  A 10-year delay in the installation of new air-to-ground missiles on F-111s, meaning that they will be fitted only four years before the planes are phased out.

Dr Gumley said: "The projects that have been taken on since DMO was formed [in 2000], virtually all of them are on time and on budget. But we do have a few problem ones which we are working to fix.

"The vast majority is due to technological discord. You have got to understand that military technology keeps moving on and this is something that perhaps isn't apparent to many people in the public."

The purchase of up to 12 Global Hawks is considered a certainty after one was tested at taxpayer expense in Australia in 2001.

The successful maritime surveillance tests cost about $15 million but most of the benefits flowed to the US military and the manufacturer of the planes, Northrop Grumman, the company has confirmed.

When the Federal Government first proposed buying robot planes just three years ago it said they would cost about $150 million.

But the Defence Minister, Robert Hill, announcing his 10-year Defence Capability Plan in February, said the program could now cost between $750 million and $1 billion.

The US General Accounting Office says that when the Global Hawks were conceived in 1994 they were expected to have an average "flyaway price" of $US10 million each.

Although the original concept has been heavily modified over the years, no explanation has been given for the sudden huge cost increases.

Senator Hill has praised the success of the robot aircraft in operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But Northrop Grumman admits that two of the craft were lost during these operations - more than a quarter of the prototype fleet. Neither was shot down but were affected by technical failures or poor maintenance.

"The losses of Global Hawk must be discussed within the context of their employment," the company said in a statement. "The Global Hawks employed in combat were Advanced Concept Technology Demonstrators [ACTD].

"The decision by senior US Air Force officials to employ the non-combat ready 'test' ACTD Global Hawk system recognised the fact that there were many risks to the system including no routine spare parts, no operationally trained crew members or maintenance personnel, and no proven and tested employment guides."

But the company said that these risks were far outweighed by the benefits of adding Global Hawk's capabilities to help shorten conflicts and save military and civilian lives.

Pentagon data on the number of crashes per hours flown shows that the Global Hawk had a crash rate 50 times higher than the F-16 fighter, a plane that frequently flies more dangerous missions and at lower altitudes, says a report in the August edition of New Scientist magazine.

A spokesman for Northrop Grumman said that it was unfair to compare a mature fighter aircraft with a pre-production prototype.

Only two general production versions of the Global Hawk have so far been built. They are in service with the US Air Force.


 
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(Login Mao_Zedong)

Re: Australian military being gouged

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May 1 2004, 10:13 PM 

lol, im a bit australian. their armed forces are ok... not the best. SOF is one of the best in the world. they really need to concentrate on AF and NAVy, and spec ops. they need amritmme reconaissance planes and strike jets and some maritime bombers. they need subs and destryoyers. australia just need to defend and even that need is not too great...

The global hawks thing - Predator, will be far worth it. save your men to fight another day. their military is tiny thjo. their land forces alone are the size of the gargungtuan HK police force, 40 000 lol..

I condemn the Imperialist - Christian genocide of the Iraqis , NAtive Americans , Muslims , Chinese , Vietnamese , Somalians , Koreans , .... and others in the Double faced - Disgusting imperialist empire also known as the West .

If its against us Asians, it is treated as a small matter, if the same Incident happens against the west it is an _ASTROCITY*

 
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(Login Diunei)

Re: Australian military being gouged

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May 2 2004, 11:16 AM 

The Australian military is not going to improve if they are being gouged to this degree.  Money that could be used to upgrade skills and training is being wasted on cost overruns.

 
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(Login NATO_Soldier)

NATO_Soldier

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May 2 2004, 8:44 PM 

Id Fight for the Aussies, They have extreme loyalty, Pride, and Morale with them, and besides they are a decent funded military with experience. Dont underestimate them....The Axis did, and same with New Zealand troops and Canadian troops. They thought Dominion troops were weak but they turned out to be more strong than their own troops.

Long Live the West

 
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(Login ParaKajat)

Re: Australian military being gouged

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May 2 2004, 9:44 PM 

Agree. Man for man, the average Aussie grunt is a whole lot better trained and far more experienced than the average PLA conscript.

Their current materiel should not be trifled with too. Its among the most modern and technologically-advanced in the world.












-----------------------
Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything.
-Frank Dane

 
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(Login Mao-Zedong)

Re: Australian military being gouged

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May 3 2004, 8:48 AM 

Agree. Man for man, the average Aussie grunt is a whole lot better trained and far more experienced than the average PLA conscript.

Their current materiel should not be trifled with too. Its among the most modern and technologically-advanced in the world.
=====

PLA are all heroic. don't care to throw away life. will die wiht pride for their country. BTW, My citys police force is ther same size as aussia army

Chinas army is a few hundred times larger...lol

 
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Hadi
(Login raghfarm)

Re: Australian military being gouged

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May 3 2004, 12:50 PM 

"Man for man, the average Aussie grunt is a whole lot better trained and far more experienced than the average PLA conscript."

That's a silly thing to say! Although the Australian Special Forces might
be better than the average Chinese Soldier, the Chinese Army doesn't depend on
the high quality of individual soldiers, it depends on the vast volume of men and material it posses! Also, I don't know where their Commandoes get such a high reputation from, I mean have they been fighting any real wars recently? And the British SAS is said to be the best in the world, but in their last operation in Iraq, they got ambushed by ordinary conscript Iraqis, and they had to run away! You see, the Special Forces, just like every other human being, will die if a bullet is shot into him!
I don't even think the Australians would be able to withstand the Chinese onslaught for more than a few days, never mind being worthy of being compared with the PLA!


THE WORLD IS A BRIDGE, CROSS IT, BUT BUILD NO HOUSE UPON IT!

“IS THERE LIFE AFTER DEATH? ... TRESSPASS HERE AND FIND OUT”






CIA agent Geoffrey Kemp talking about Saddam Hussein:

“WE KNEW HE WAS A SON OF A BITCH, BUT HE WAS OUR SON OF A BITCH”

 
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ParaKAJAT
(Login ParaKajat)

Re: Australian military being gouged

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May 3 2004, 9:55 PM 

Hadi, we're not talking about the British SAS, we're talking about the Australian Special Air Service Regiment (Australian SASR).

Where the hell have you gotten that story about British SAS running away from the Iraqis? Could you please enlighten us on this more?


--------------------
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
-Martin Luther King Jr.

 
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(Login NATO_Soldier)

NATO_Soldier

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May 4 2004, 2:18 AM 

Theres no way Western Powers would let China invade Australia.

Thats a big move.

That could start the big war.

Besides, this is not going to be a total victory, the Australians would put out a good fight, like said before their technology level is pretty high, just as high as many big powers, and the UK wouldnt let someone invade Australia, Thats a big Ally which is not expendable.

 
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(Login Mao-Zedong)

Re: Australian military being gouged

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May 4 2004, 4:06 AM 

lol... you westerners still think you control the world , don't you? you are once agian mistaken...

 
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(Login Diunei)

Re: Australian military being gouged

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May 4 2004, 9:50 AM 

For one thing, China has no ambitions to invade Australia; the only potential for hostilities would be if Australia goes to fight PLA.  For another, most of China's equipment far outclasses Australia's.  Australia still uses Leopard I while PLA uses Type 98, which is comparable (~80%) to latest Western tanks.  And RAN has nothing that compares to the Sovremenney DDGs or Type 052B/C DDGs deployed by China.  And China has more Su-27/Su-30s alone than RAAF has aircraft, so I don't know where anybody can claim Australia has superior tech.  As for SOF, does anybody honestly believe the SAS can hold off an entire motorised/mechanised division?

 
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(Login Diunei)

Re: Australian military being gouged

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May 4 2004, 9:59 AM 

BTW, this thread was NOT meant to bash Australia's military, but rather to discuss the implications of being ripped off.  I think we can all agree that even the best funded businesses will fail if their money is spent poorly.

 
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(Login NATO_Soldier)

NATO_Soldier

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May 4 2004, 4:11 PM 

Just because China has more numbers does not mean Australia would not hold them off until allied forces arrive. Anyone Remember the Battle of Britain.... For those of you who do not, the Germans got ripped apart by British Aircraft who outnumbered them by more than 3 times. So do not underestimate quality training combinbed with Morale and pride.

 
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