דן זה F16I

מה שלמחה נ"ב הארנים בפרום

פוחדים מי התקוף

ישראל או USA זה מבדר

ביי בנתיים

http://frontpagemag.com/media/slideshowimages/slide1.html

Welcome to the forum 8200.

What the barbaric palestinians want is irrelevant, in the end of the day
we will have to throw them to Jordan.
Only full separation will bring an end to the current situation in the ME.

Look who's talking. Israel was a lot more ethical power when they were weak. Now that they are strong, they're looking more and more facist.

E Tan, E Epi Tas!

The reason for this is simply because the palestinians do not want peace,
they live in illusions that they will defeat us in the future.
This is the reason why only full separation of the two people will work.

Fascist?
from where are U Landi?

Dan, unfortunately for you I have to agree with Landos' assertion that your proposal to throw the Palestinians into Jordan and isolate yourselves from the Arab world, sounds pretty fascist.  It was Adolf Hitler that told Neville Chamberlain (British PM) that Germany and Britain both had a "Jewish problem," and that Germany had to annexe buffer states (i.e. Czechoslovakia and Poland) because Germany "needed breathing space."

But let me ask you this: why can't Israel survive as a multi-cultural state?  Jerusalem is the holy city for three major religions, and Israel has Arab Moslems, Arab Christians, Arab Jews and European Jews among its citizens.  In fact, I recently heard that there is a controversy between secular Israelis and the rest, because secular Israelis want supermarkets that sell pork.

I posted this in Mideast/Persian Defence Forum never got a reply.


Will seeing that they didn't give a rats ass for Isreal for 2000 years and now they want it back. It's like leaving your car on someones property for 10 year's and coming back to take it back.


P.S. To Jews why all the sudden you want the holy land back?
And don't say because of anti-semitism or hitler why all this time to wait to get it back? I mean there were prominet rich Jews throughout history they could of help fund a takeover. Why wait 2000 year's? The Jews had a good relation with the Ottoman Turks why not then did the Jewish people lobby for there land. Instead the Ottomans sold large tracks of land to the Greek Orthodox Church. The Greek Orthodox Church is the largest land owner in Isreal right now but the Jewish government is tring to get those lands back Illeagally. The Knesset sets on Church land leased to the Isrealis.

I would like to get your feedback.

"Fascist?" Will the way you think Dan your not differnt from the nazi ideaolgy.
Plus it seems if the world was looking the other way you would deffinitly would of killed all the Palestinians....That's what I sense from you.

"Plus it seems if the world was looking the other way you would deffinitly would of killed all the Palestinians....That's what I sense from you."

Thats what everyone feels the Israelis would do if they thought they could get away with it. Thats what happens when you have an endless string of right wingers running your government-you end up getting more and more extreme, not more tolerant. Sharon, Netanyahoo, Barak and on and on and on. Now we have young Israelis saying they want to push the Palestinians (ethnic cleanse) into Jordan. Incredible.

You Israelis are going to have to realize that the Holocaust doesn't exempt you from behaving by the same standards every other civilized nation behaves by. If anything, it should make you abide by a HIGHER standard, not a lower one. Think about it. And stop talking about ethnic cleansing/genocide. The similarity with another extreme regime we've all read about is frightening!


E Tan, E Epi Tas!

Well, after looking at how the Israelis treat the people they stole the land from, are you really surprised that they don't want you around? Remember this, you took their land, you oppress them, slaughter them, starve them, lie about them. They are the natives, you are not, it was their land, not yours, you are the immigrant. In my opinion, the UN had no right to give you that land. OK, now tell me I'm anti-semetic, boo hoo.

I think the UN Should take control of Jerusalm, that would simplify the whole thin, but since the UN isn't going to do anything, maybe pass another resolution, Jerusalm will be a battle ground. I still don't understand why there can't be a country with a multi-cultural population... I geuss thats the Canadian in me.

I go to school with ever religion there is on earth, and there averages about 1-4 fights per school year.(school of about 1500)

Now if we can get along, I mean there is dislike, but no one would ever start something over another person's religion. It doesn't make sence.

---------------------------------------------
Canada's Future Maritime Helocopter

"deeds, not words"

Well as far as i know, the most fascist between those two is Israel,,,,,

calling fascist the stone throwers....while you run over their houses and their corpses with the tanks....You guys are just opening your own graves in middle east.Unfortunately, because i dont see you guys survive this time...u are making a whole in the water......Good luck fellas.

Teaching The Holocaust To Teachers
15:52 Jul 25, '04 / 7 Av 5764


The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous (JFR) recently held its fifth annual Holocaust teacher-training program at Columbia University in New York City. JTA reports that though six states - California, New Jersey, Florida, New York, Illinois and Massachusetts - mandate that the Holocaust be taught in their public schools, and another 11 states "recommend" it, they are not providing their teachers with training to do so. It is this void that the Jewish Foundation is filling, with a four-day seminar for 40 middle school and high school teachers.

JTA reports that the teachers said they used to receive their Holocaust education from the internet, museums and readings. The seminar, however, featured lectures by top scholars such as Nechama Tec, Henry Feingold, Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan van Pelt, followed by discussion groups to learn how to apply the lessons to their classrooms. For more information, see JFR's website at Teaching The Holocaust To Teachers
The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous (JFR) recently held its fifth annual Holocaust teacher-training program at Columbia University in New York City. JTA reports that though six states - California, New Jersey, Florida, New York, Illinois and Massachusetts - mandate that the Holocaust be taught in their public schools, and another 11 states "recommend" it, they are not providing their teachers with training to do so. It is this void that the Jewish Foundation is filling, with a four-day seminar for 40 middle school and high school teachers.

JTA reports that the teachers said they used to receive their Holocaust education from the internet, museums and readings. The seminar, however, featured lectures by top scholars such as Nechama Tec, Henry Feingold, Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan van Pelt, followed by discussion groups to learn how to apply the lessons to their classrooms. For more information, see JFR's website.
Teaching The Holocaust To Teachers
The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous (JFR) recently held its fifth annual Holocaust teacher-training program at Columbia University in New York City. JTA reports that though six states - California, New Jersey, Florida, New York, Illinois and Massachusetts - mandate that the Holocaust be taught in their public schools, and another 11 states "recommend" it, they are not providing their teachers with training to do so. It is this void that the Jewish Foundation is filling, with a four-day seminar for 40 middle school and high school teachers.

JTA reports that the teachers said they used to receive their Holocaust education from the internet, museums and readings. The seminar, however, featured lectures by top scholars such as Nechama Tec, Henry Feingold, Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan van Pelt, followed by discussion groups to learn how to apply the lessons to their classrooms. For more information, see JFR's website at "http://www.jfr.org/".

Believe me, that genocide is the most well publicized IN HISTORY. We in the US are INUNDATED with movies, specials, documentaries, books, magazines and journals about the Holocaust. The total emphasis on the Holocaust, to the exclusion of coverage of any other incidents of genocide, is really something. The way it's used as a political weapon to justify Israeli policy against the Palestinians is disgusting.

The American people are WELL aware of the suffering of Jews during WW2. We just don't think it gives you carte blanche to oppress the Palestinians in the occupied territories. Sorry, but there it is. And you should stop running it out everytime Israel takes some heat for it's policies. One really has NOTHING to do with the other.

E Tan, E Epi Tas!

to all
look in the mirror before opening your mouth

@ Diunei
Dan, unfortunately for you I have to agree with Landos' assertion that your proposal
to throw the Palestinians into Jordan and isolate yourselves from the Arab world,
sounds pretty fascist.

Disagree with U, expelling and punishing the people who want to kill me and
expell me from my home is not only not fascist its even moral thing to do.

"It was Adolf Hitler that told Neville Chamberlain (British PM) that
Germany and Britain both had a "Jewish problem," and that Germany had to annexe buffer states (i.e. Czechoslovakia and Poland) because ermany "needed
breathing space.""

This comparison is not in the place ( i had signature deeling with such
comparison in the past) i will ignore this remark, it show only ignorance.

But let me ask you this: why can't Israel survive as a multi-cultural
state?

This is the palestinians wet dream.
1. Israel is already multi-cultural state.
2. giving the palestinians Israeli citizenship will make Israel in few years
not to multi-cultural state but to palestinias state.

This is the main reason why the palestinians dont like the fence.

In fact, I recently heard that there is a controversy between secular
Israelis and the rest, because secular Israelis want supermarkets that sell
pork.

True, unfortunately most Russians immigrants are seculars and eating pork.
The pork symbolize impurity in Judaism and therefore religious and
conservative jewish dont like to see it.

@Llakos
Will seeing that they didn't give a rats ass for Isreal for 2000 years and
now they want it back. It's like leaving your car on someones property for
10 year's and coming back to take it back.

Man such ignorance i did not sew for a long time.
1. jewish always live in the Land Of Israel before and after the creation of
the modern Israel.
2. The day we ask for the recognition of other countries R left.

P.S. To Jews why all the sudden you want the holy land back?
And don't say because of anti-semitism or hitler why all this time to wait to
get it back?

Ignorance Ignorance and Ignorance.
1. Open jewish prayer book, Jewish are praying 2000 for the returning for the
promise land.
2. There is conflict among the Jewish themselves ( i mean to the religious
jewish) about the timing of the establish of the state.
(some groups in USA and Britannia saying that we have to waite for the assiah)
The father of the seculars zionism, Benjamin Zeev Herzel (die exactly 100
years ago) cover the Dreyfus case in French, this case was the main motive
for him to establishe the zionism.

The secular zionism was establish before the Germans decided to murder Jewish.

The Greek Orthodox Church is the largest land owner in Isreal right now
but the Jewish government is tring to get those lands back Illeagally. The
Knesset sets on Church land leased to the Isrealis.

I dont know if they have most of the land but i know thay have lots of the land.
The Land Of Israel is Jewish Profit, it belong to the Jewish People


""Fascist?" Will the way you think Dan your not differnt from the nazi ideaolgy."

Well i answer Diunei about this comparison, not going to response to such stupid remarks.


Plus it seems if the world was looking the other way you would deffinitly would of
killed all the Palestinians....That's what I sense from you."

The world is irrelevant for us we will do everything we think is necessary to
protect ourselves. U have to understand we are not in a place where we are
looking for legitimate from the "world", We really dont care what other
people think especially while we see who are the one who criticize us.

Read what i have post, in the end of the day we will have to "send" those Barbaric to Jordan.

fool
I still don't understand why there can't be a country with a multi-cultural
population... I geuss thats the Canadian in me.

I answer this question to Diunei, read my post.

Landi
The American people are WELL aware of the suffering of Jews during WW2.
We just don't think it gives you carte blanche to oppress the Palestinians
in the occupied territories. Sorry, but there it is. And you should stop running it out everytime Israel takes some heat for it's policies. One really
has NOTHING to do with the other.

Haha,
So now U represent the Americans .

Dan you said to Landos. "Haha,
So now U represent the Americans ."

Unlike you we dont milk host countries unlike the Jewish community is known for.
That's why Jews have a bad rap. If you Jews took a page out of Greek culture and knew how to treat "xeni" you wouldn't have this problem. People around the world love Greeks but I can't say the same for Jew's. Greeks have been living abroad for thousands of years and they don't leech off of other culture's.
So Dan keep the racism up cause it can't last to long.

By the way what will your country do when the U.S. citizens finnally put a stop to the economic aid "10 billion dollars a year" Isreal get's

I think your country will colapse on itself so time is knocking at your door. U.S. DOLLARS IS WHATS KEEPING ISREAL AFLOAT WHEN DOLLARS END ISREAL BECOMES A 3rd WORLD NATION "BUSTED BROKE PENNYLESS"!!!!!!!!!

So DAN get ready to work in the fields cause thats the only work you'll get when the Dollars STOP.

Llakos

I Know the Greek are Idiots but apparently i did not now how much.
Learning from the Greek? dont think so.
Y U R talking about Jewish and not about Israelis U moron?

10 billion dollars???? Hello , stop smoking my little junkie friend.

No Israel will not colapse if the american will stop thier $2.6 billons military aid.
Israel got $3 billions each year sicne 1980 while our economic was third from what it is now.
Today we our GDP is more then $110 billions, we have one of the sophisticate hi-tech industry in
the world (certainly better then Greek)
So shut up and try to end the construction of the stadium for the Olympic Game U idiot.

PS I am working in the software industry and believe me nothing is wrong in working in fields

Llakos

I Know the Greek are Idiots but apparently i did not now how much.
Learning from the Greek? dont think so.

(You should only hope that if Israel lasts a thousand years, they can contribute even half as much to the world as the Greeks have done. No other civilization even comes close. Deal with it.)


Y U R talking about Jewish and not about Israelis U moron?

(You're the ones who always refer to Israel as "The Jewish State". The two have become synonymous)


10 billion dollars???? Hello , stop smoking my little junkie friend.

(Estimates of Israel's monetary support from the US vary, but even conservative estimates put it at WAY over the offical $ 3 Billion a year. $ 10 Billion is entirely plausible)

No Israel will not colapse if the american will stop thier $2.6 billons military aid.
Israel got $3 billions each year sicne 1980 while our economic was third from what it is now.
Today we our GDP is more then $110 billions, we have one of the sophisticate hi-tech industry in
the world-certainly better than Greece

(It's mostly weapons technology. Israel makes much of her income selling weapons around the world.)


So shut up and try to end the construction of the stadium for the Olympic Game U idiot.

(The Athens Olympics are going to be great. All certain nations have to do is stop whining about security and start enjoying themselves. You know, enjoyment??)

PS I am working in the software industry and believe me nothing is wrong in working in fields

(Fine, I've got a Masters Degree in Electrical Engineering/Computers and my dad owned a major crop farm. I've done both. Software pays better. LOL)



E Tan, E Epi Tas!

""Teaching The Holocaust To Teachers""


Take your holocaust and shove it up your ass
It doesn't work on me you moron!

"Llakos

I Know the Greek are Idiots but apparently i did not now how much.
Learning from the Greek? dont think so.
Y U R talking about Jewish and not about Israelis U moron?

10 billion dollars???? Hello , stop smoking my little junkie friend.

No Israel will not colapse if the american will stop thier $2.6 billons military aid.
Israel got $3 billions each year sicne 1980 while our economic was third from what it is now.
Today we our GDP is more then $110 billions, we have one of the sophisticate hi-tech industry in
the world (certainly better then Greek)
So shut up and try to end the construction of the stadium for the Olympic Game U idiot.

PS I am working in the software industry and believe me nothing is wrong in working in fields"



Tell me if I'm not wrong Dan didn't your illeagal state not copy our flags color's and have a state religion like us Greeks. Will if were idiots you sure walk our foot steps......

Ohhh sorry Dan I forgot to tell you about the excess amount of money I'm talking about is the FORGIVE ME LOANS ISREAL TAKE OUT EVER YEAR. Your 2.6 billion $$$$ figure is almost accurite. But see Isreal also take's out regular loans which are not paid back thats why we call your illeagal state a wel fare state. Its not the aid you recive it's also the loans on top the AID. Your wel fare nation takes out these loans in order to survive.


To bad Dan sounds like your upset because Isreal will never host the OLYMPIC'S what a shame. Ohh by the way dan your figures on GDP

ISREAL $120.6 billion HELLAS $212.2 billion


WoW Dan Greece's GDP is almost TWICE AS MUCH AN OVER HALF OF GREECE WORKS IN THE GOVERNMENT........

I guess you better work over time PAL because them Greeks are just chillin drinking there frapee and Greek coffee laughing at your asses running around in your tanks playing cowboy and indians. Oh
Dan keep looking for more money around the world to leech so you can make up the differnce up. BRING UP YOUR GDP YOU BUM!!!!

wowoowow

Dan is getting stoned by the palestinians on this thread

lololololol

After the rovers 'Spirit' and 'Opportunity' landed on Mars in January 2004, international excitement was so great that NASA received over 6.5 billion hits on its website in less than two months. Helping the wildly popular Mars program get off the ground, so to speak, were some calculations of an Israeli scientist, Prof. Joseph Appelbaum of Tel Aviv University, along with colleagues at NASA.

Appelbaum, a specialist in solar energy at TAU's Fleischman Faculty of Engineering, determined the feasibility of using solar power for landers and rovers on the Martian surface. He also developed the solar radiation model that was used for the design of the photovoltaic arrays for the first Mars lander 'Pathfinder' in 1997, and for Spirit and Opportunity, and for possible future missions to Mars.


Back in the late 1980s, when NASA started planning its Mars program, the agency was looking for a long-lasting power source for possible landers and rovers.

Solar power was initially dismissed because no one believed there was enough solar radiation on Mars, and even if there were, it was feared that photovoltaic cells would get clogged by dust during one of Mars' infamous dust storms, rendering the solar panels useless.

Instead, NASA was thinking of using a radioisotope thermal generator - essentially a small, nuclear-powered device. Such a generator already existed but was not powerful enough for a mission on Mars. It would take time and a sizable budget to bring designs for a more powerful device to the implementation stage.

This is where Appelbaum came in. Based on his calculations of solar radiation on Mars, together with data on dust particles and atmospheric gases in the Martian atmosphere, Appelbaum concluded that there was enough solar energy to overcome harsh conditions and power the landers and rovers.

While it was true that the sun's direct beam would be attenuated by dust storms, Appelbaum calculated that the diffused solar radiation existing on Mars would be sufficient to keep the solar panels functioning - even during dust storms.

Appelbaum developed a complete mathematical model for solar energy on Mars at any given time, day and site. "It took some time to convince people at NASA that my model would work," he said, "but eventually they adopted it."

A team at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) of NASA used the model to design the solar panels for Pathfinder, which landed on Mars in 1997. Planned to work for 30 days, the power source ended up functioning for almost 80.

Designs for the Spirit and Opportunity solar panels were based on the same solar radiation model, which has proved a boon for space research by harnessing a ready source of energy with available and inexpensive technology.



Teaching The Holocaust To Teachers no to POLIZEI fk

look in the mirror before opening your mouth

""Teaching The Holocaust To Teachers no to POLIZEI fk

look in the mirror before opening your mouth""


I am looking into the mirror, and I'm certenly cleaner than you are.

Israel will collapse if USA withdrawa aid? Do you use Pentium & ICQ?
Visit:
http://www.thinkquest.org/library/site_sum.html?tname=20916&url=20916/gather/nf/conv/1990.htm
Israel - A Light Unto the Nations

The nation of Israel has made many fundamental advances in the world of technology. Did you know an Israeli company developed the popular Internet chat software, ICQ? Other contributions include research in the treatment of HIV, solar energy uses, agricultural technology that turns deserts into farmland, and more. This web site proudly describes these technological marvels and demonstrates why they've been so important world wide.

"Well, after looking at how the Israelis treat the people they stole the land from, are you really surprised that they don't want you around?"

Yes, I agree that the way in which the Palestinians were treated is unfortunate... but at the same time, the Jews had a right to that land as well. There was a significant Jewish population living there far before 1947...

"Remember this, you took their land, you oppress them, slaughter them, starve them, lie about them."

That is a little one-sided in my oppinion. The way the Jews have acted towards the palestinians is reprehensible... but the way the palestinians have acted is equally reprehensible. It is time to accept that there are no good guys in this situation. Both sides have legitimate claims to the land, and both sides have commited attrocities.

"They are the natives, you are not, it was their land, not yours, you are the immigrant. In my opinion, the UN had no right to give you that land. OK, now tell me I'm anti-semetic, boo hoo."

But Polizei, I think your attitude is slightly anti semetic. The jews have had a rougher time historically than anyone else... times 5. After the holocaust, all they wanted was their own state, where they could live together as a people, and isolate themselves from the opression they had experienced in Europe and Russia and elsewhere. Is that REALLY so much to ask? There was a significant jewish population already in Palestine, and they had a historic connection to this place as a homeland... and had as much right to it as anyone else.

Does that make it right to kick some of the Palestinians of their land? Of course not... but it certaintly makes it understandable.

But you know what ISN'T understandable? Strapping a bomb to your chest and getting on a school bus, or running into a marketplace.

United We Stand.



"Now, while still pursuing the method of realising our overall strategic concept, I come to the crux of what I have travelled here to say. Neither the sure prevention of war, nor the continuous rise of world organisation will be gained without what I have called the fraternal association of the English-speaking peoples. This means a special relationship between the British Commonwealth and Empire and the United States. Thus, whatever happens, and thus only, shall we be secure ourselves and able to work together for the high and simple causes that are dear to us and bode no ill to any. Eventually there may come—I feel eventually there will come—the principle of common citizenship, but that we may be content to leave to destiny, whose outstretched arm many of us can already clearly see.

Winston Churchill

@Carl Zimmerman Israel - A Light Unto the Nations
I'm sorry to tell you Zimmerman the Greeks gave you the light not you gave the world the light use a differnt anology. As I told Dan you copy many things Greeks have done it's nothing new......


@8200 What the HELL are you talking about. Try and stay on subject instead of trying to change the truth. We are talking about Isreal and Palestine.


And anglo you said ""Yes, I agree that the way in which the Palestinians were treated is unfortunate... but at the same time, the Jews had a right to that land as well. There was a significant Jewish population living there far before 1947...""

First anglo let's get this right. The jewish people have been living there in the middle east for thousands of year's not arguing that....But what you forget anglo they were a minority there the Palestinians were the majority. If you believe in demmocracy then you shouldn't agree with the ZIONIST OCCUPATION FORCE.


""That is a little one-sided in my oppinion. The way the Jews have acted towards the palestinians is reprehensible... but the way the palestinians have acted is equally reprehensible. It is time to accept that there are no good guys in this situation. Both sides have legitimate claims to the land, and both sides have commited attrocities.""


Again anglo your missing the big picture if you remmember in 1948 they threw the Palestinaians out of there homes there bussinesses and there farms and took there livly hood away and made them in to poor refugees. Now was that right since the Zionist came themselves out of a tramatic experence from WW2. Does it give them the right to go and start there own holcaust on a people who themselves just was released from the Ottomans then the British. Anglo you need to be fair and balanced not loob sided as they make it out....


""But Polizei, I think your attitude is slightly anti semetic. The jews have had a rougher time historically than anyone else... times 5. After the holocaust, all they wanted was their own state, where they could live together as a people, and isolate themselves from the opression they had experienced in Europe and Russia and elsewhere. Is that REALLY so much to ask? There was a significant jewish population already in Palestine, and they had a historic connection to this place as a homeland... and had as much right to it as anyone else.""

First I think you should apologize to Polizei he is not in any way anti semetic he is just stating facts......It's a real shame when a group of zionist throw that word at you when you become critcal about them.....

First does anyone here know what the word means.
Main Entry: Se·mit·ic : of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic

So let's use the difinition properly not the ZIONIST DIFIINTION WHICH ONLY MEANS HEBREW.....So Zionist read the Difinition..


""But you know what ISN'T understandable? Strapping a bomb to your chest and getting on a school bus, or running into a marketplace.""


You can blame the Zionist on that one pal. They created this mess and made the people desperate.

Anglo if your home was taken buy some people and said that used to be there families home 2000 years ago would you give it to them I don't think so. Plus I think you would fight for it too. The only reason they get away with it because the world revolves around money and they got Palestinians don't....

Landi
You should only hope that if Israel lasts a thousand years, they can contribute even half as much to the world as the Greeks have done.
No other civilization even comes close. Deal with it.

1. Saying current Greeks are the ancient Greeks is the most funy thing i have heard today.
It is like saying current Italians are ancient Romans and current Egyptians are the ancient Pharaohs.

2. Still, I promise U i feel very good in comparing Jewish achievements to those of the ancients Greek.

You're the ones who always refer to Israel as "The Jewish State". The two have become synonymous
Israel is indeed Jewish state and the Land Of Israel is a profit of the Jewish people (with or without UN approval)
But Jewish are living elsewhere beside Israel.

Estimates of Israel's monetary support from the US vary, but even conservative estimates put it at WAY over the offical $ 3 Billion a year.
$ 10 Billion is entirely plausible
U also have to stope smoke, the only offical number is $2.6 billions , Israel getting more few hundred millions $ for the development of the Arrow,
Overall it is ~$3 billions , this is the only number unless U will prove what U R saying.

It's mostly weapons technology. Israel makes much of her income selling weapons around the world.
Again , combination of stupidity and ignorance,
Most of Israel hi-tech industry have no connection to weapons industry.
here is some examples:

Amadocs is the biggest company in the world for billing software (for Phone companies)
CheckPoint is the company which create and invent the firewall technology, it is the biggest company in this field.
Micosoft have lots of office around the world (dealing with translation) , the only place it have development center outside US is Israel.

The Athens Olympics are going to be great. All certain nations have to do is stop whining about
security and start enjoying themselves. You know, enjoyment??

I hope it will be great , the security is the one who allow U to enjoy.

Llakos
Tell me if I'm not wrong Dan didn't your illeagal state not copy our flags color's and have a state religion like us Greeks.
Will if were idiots you sure walk our foot steps......


Hahahahaha,
Illegal???
Well , personaly i do not care what UN said , but U R the one who care and as much as i remember the UN decided
about the creation of the state of Israel, so even U , if you try very hard, can see it is legitimate.
But again i dont care about UN.

Please stop make fool of yourself, i did say U are moron , i did not ask u to prove it.
The color in the Israeli flag represent lots of thing none of them have any connection to Greek.

Ohhh sorry Dan I forgot to tell you about the excess amount of money I'm talking about is the FORGIVE ME LOANS ISREAL TAKE OUT EVER YEAR.
Your 2.6 billion $$$$ figure is almost accurite. But see Isreal also take's out regular loans which are not paid back thats why we call your illeagal state a
wel fare state. Its not the aid you recive it's also the loans on top the AID. Your wel fare nation takes out these loans in order to survive.

Israel took twice Loans GUARANTEE, do U now what is GUARANTEE, it mean that if Israel will not pay the loans the americans will pay.
By haveing the guarantee Israel could loan mony with low interest.
Those loans did not cost one single cent to the americans.

To bad Dan sounds like your upset because Isreal will never host the OLYMPIC'S what a shame.
Upset? Me?
No i am not upset.
about the olympics, Maybe who now, certainly not with the current atmosphere in the region.
I am not big fan of sport really dont care.

ISREAL $120.6 billion HELLAS $212.2 billion
WoW Dan Greece's GDP is almost TWICE AS MUCH AN OVER HALF OF GREECE WORKS IN THE GOVERNMENT........

Haha ,
Greek GDP is higher then Israel.
Egypte GDP is olso higher then Israel U moron.
Per capital , without the US aid, Israel GDP (again per capital) is higher form the Greek one. (i dont remember the numbert).

"But Polizei, I think your attitude is slightly anti semetic. The jews have had a rougher time historically than anyone else... times 5. After the holocaust, all they wanted was their own state, where they could live together as a people, and isolate themselves from the opression they had experienced in Europe and Russia and elsewhere. Is that REALLY so much to ask? "


I think those are noble thoughts, Anglo. But lets make them even MORE noble! Instead of giving away the Palestinians homes with your benificent proposal, why don't you give away YOUR home? Thats right, donate your home and possessions to the state of Israel! I mean, if you're ready to give away someone elses property in this great act of generosity, you should be willing to give away YOUR PROPERTY? Dontcha think????

You get my drift, bucko???

E Tan, E Epi Tas!

"Per capital , without the US aid, Israel GDP (again per capital) is higher form the Greek one. (i dont remember the numbert)."

LOL. I think you'd have a pretty tough time trying to figure out just how much aid the US gives to Israel. Certainly it's way more than the official figure. Additionally, the US backs annual loans that Israel takes out-and almost never pays back, leaving Uncle Sugar to pick up the tab. Finally, the US provides funding for NUMEROUS Israeli defense projects including the recently posted Arrow Missle. We paid for a MAJOR part of the development of that system.

Take away US aid, grants, loan guarantees, project funding, US procurements from Israeli Defense Industry, etc, etc, etc, and Israel's economy would implode. No question in my mind.

Your nation has achieved a great deal, but you've received a great deal of help from America.

E Tan, E Epi Tas!

Intel launches Israel-developed Centrino chip series

As the latest series of the Intel's new series of mobile Centrino computer chips and products is unveiled in New York this week with great fanfare and an unprecedented $300 million advertising campaign, the team at the company's R&D facility in Haifa will be looking on with a particular sense of pride.

The Centrino officially being unveiled March 12, is completely the brainchild of those who work at the company's Haifa facility.

"Everything was done in Israel, from top to bottom," said Intel Israel spokesman Koby Bahar. "All of the Centrino mobile technology and all the products, not just the chip, were developed in Israel."

Bahar praised the Intel Israel team for its dedication to the project. "Several hundred engineers worked for three years to develop this," he said.

During the chips' development, utter secrecy was maintained. The code name for the project was "Banias" the name of a tributary to the Jordan River.

The new Centrino processors are being aggressively marketed around the world, including the U.S., UK, France, Germany, Australia and South Korea,and the global cost of advertising could surpass the budget Intel lavished on promoting its Pentium processors.

Intel, the world's largest chip maker, has been operating in Israel since 1974, and has 5,200 employees at its four main development centers in
Jerusalem, Haifa, Kiryat Gat and Petah Tikva.

David Perlmutter, Vice President and General Manager of Intel's Mobile Platform Group, told the financial daily Globes that one the most important advantages of the Centrino processor, compared with the performance of its
competitors in the mobile computer sector, was its low electricity consumption. Perlmutter added that the Centrino processor would enable the development of thinner, faster and lighter mobile computers.

The 3-gigahertz Centrino chips are expected to far outstrip rivals in speed with performance close to the latest Pentium 4, while using power sparingly. The new processor is Intel's response to criticism of the Pentium 4, installed in laptops and notebooks, which suffered high energy consumption rates and were considered
battery-wasters.

Recently, Intel also officially revealed its PXA800F processor, code named "Manitoba", which was partly developed in Israel, which is designed to grab a substantial share of the market for advanced cellular telephone
processors.



The Manitoba processor is intended for cellular telephones with multimedia capabilities similar to that of a PDA. Communications companies believe the customers' ultimate ambition is to own a cellular telephone with voice, data communications, multimedia and agenda capabilities; in short, a cellular telephone which is also a PDA device.


Intel has already shown Manitoba-based examples to potential customers, and the company expects the first products with the processor will be launched in mid-2003. The processor is designed for mid and high-end products, i.e. multimedia-capable cellular telephones. Six Intel developments centers across the world participated in Manitoba's development. Two of them have an Israeli connection: Petah Tikva, and Calgary, Alberta, in Canada, both of which were facilities of the Israeli DSPC company, acquired by Intel in 1999 for $1.6 billion.

According to Globes," Intel's Israeli development centers will also be setting the tone for future processors' dual band capability. The Petah Tikva development center is developing processors for cellular networks, while the Haifa R&D center is developing processors for wireless networks. Collaboration by the two centers will lead in future, possibly even by next year, to a processor combining both cellular and wireless capability.

Already, the Haifa facility is developing the processor which will succeed the Centrino, codenamed "Dothan".

@Llakos:

First of all, welcome to this forum.  I understand you are a passionate debater, but please try to refrain from overly insulting insinuations of "Jewish parasites."  The fact is that Jewish communities have also contributed greatly to the societies they have resided in, be it Canadian, American, Chinese, etc.  For example, many buildings at Montreal universities were paid for and given by Jewish persons, and they let everybody, including Palestinians, use them without any hassles.

Cheers!

Man I can't stop laughing. Dan I almost choked your to funny man now I see why you all are comidians LOL ahahaha LOL.


Dan go to CIA FACT BOOK....LoL you fool here are the stats from the CIA

Greece GDP purchasing power parity - $212.2 billion (2003 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 4% (2003 est.)
GDP - per capita:purchasing power parity - $19,900 (2003 est.)


Isreal Wel fare included GDP:purchasing power parity - $120.6 billion (2003 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:1% (2003 est.)
GDP - per capita:purchasing power parity - $19,700 (2003 est.)
Dam Dan all that high tech and us cafe coffee drinking Greeks make 200$ more on average how sad while you play cowboys and indians we sit back enjoy and watch your sily asses go boom boom.



""1. Saying current Greeks are the ancient Greeks is the most funy thing i have heard today.
It is like saying current Italians are ancient Romans and current Egyptians are the ancient Pharaohs.

2. Still, I promise U i feel very good in comparing Jewish achievements to those of the ancients Greek.""


For question # 1 LOL DAN YOU DUMB GYPSY we Greeks never left our land unlike your selves that left and came back 2000 years later to claim your state. Serious if anyone smoking is you pal and it ain't WEED either you need to lay off the MUSHROOMS....YOUR IN SPACE PAL LOLOLOL. I've heard this before from Jews that say Greeks of ancient Greece are no more but all I have to say is I'm from Tripoli Tegea we've been here longer than your Torah or Mosses. I truely feel bad for you Dan you are still looking for idenity as a Jewish people.

For question # 2 Will dan what are you suppose to do you have to lie to yourself. Dan you think you invented everything. LOL
You need to lie to themself to feel like the supperior race I truly feel for you.
Serious Dan your Zionist friends are killing you with all the bull$hit they feed you....
Serious Dan your a funny guy keep collecting them wel fare checks I garrantee one day they will stop and Isreal will become like the West Bank or Gaza fighting the Palestinians on an equal footing I bet they'll work yaa...

P.S. We Greek's know who we are do you know who you are. Remember you slept with half of Europe todays Jew is way more mixed then a Greek. We still have our own homes for over 4000 years you can't say the same. LOL READ EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE IT'S TO LATE OPPS IT IS.....


P.S. @8200 are you a bot all you do is paste & copy articles don't you have any input you BOT.....

Dan said:

Disagree with U, expelling and punishing the people who want to kill me and expell me from my home is not only not fascist its even moral thing to do.

Well here in lies the problem, who expelled who?  Romans expelled Jews, and in 1948 the European Jews expelled native Arabs.  So what about the Arabs expelled by European Jews, is it not natural for the Arab refugees to expel the people that threw them out of their homes, i.e. the European Jews (or their decendants?)  And since the various Israeli governments have never seemed to want to fix the injustice of 1948, isn't it natural for Arabs to want to expel those that won't do them justice as well?

This comparison is not in the place ( i had signature deeling with such comparison in the past) i will ignore this remark, it show only ignorance.

If that is so then why did the Israeli military try to maintain a buffer zone by occupying Lebanon?  Why spend to many resources to maintain a few settlements in majority-Arab Gaza?  Sorry to say but IMHO "breathing space" is an accurate paraphrase for buffer zones.

This is the palestinians wet dream.
1. Israel is already multi-cultural state.
2. giving the palestinians Israeli citizenship will make Israel in few years not to multi-cultural state but to palestinias state.

This is the main reason why the palestinians dont like the fence.

It's nice we agree on the first point.  But I am forced to disagree on your second point.  Why couldn't an Israeli constitution protect religous freedoms, meaning that Judaism would never die?  Why couldn't this same constitution protect language rights, meaning that Hebrew would remain an official language?  And above all, why can't Jewish families continue to practise Jewish traditions and pass on their culture to their children?

@Diunei Lingyen stop sucking up.
Since you bring that up why is it that Jewish groups lobby to not include the Armanian and Greek holocaust of the 1900's in college curriculum.

Diunei Lingyen Plus I don't look at you as a fair man sense me and you have debated many times about your countries affairs....In Worlds Armed Forces Forum


ohh BTW Diunei don't put words in my mouth cause your not no moderators your the opposite..."Jewish parasites." I never said that in this thread you better keep it cool or MURPHY WILL FIND OUT TRUTH PAL.... Serious Diunei don't mess around like that man serious.......

@Llakos:

First of all, I am willing to bury the hatchet at any previous web forum, since you are new to this one and we have no history here.  As far as I am concerned you were given a clean slate and I have, so far, treated you fairly.

Secondly, you can say what you want to Mike Murphy but I can assure you that I have his backing.  I have no need to suck up to him, only to maintain my promise to enforce the rules that ALL the moderators/co-administrators agreed upon.

Third, you are also plenty to put words into my mouth and you are the one being far more provocative than me.  Just because I am a co-administrator/moderator it doesn't mean I have to tolerate any of your abusive language.  So take my advice and bury the hatchet

 

@Llakos:

BTW, I forgot to add that "Jewish parasites" was paraphrasing the meaning your posts, and it is very accurate at that.  Or is "welfare-added GDP" supposed to mean otherwise?

No, Diunei we are talking about which nation makes more money. If you read you will see what we are talking about. Plus I live here in California and I can say the truth about the extent of aid Isreal gets every year from the U.S. BECAUSE I PAY TAXES OVER 70,000$ of mine goes to taxes and yes I can VOICE MY OPINION WERE MY MONEY GOES SORRY YOU DONT FEEL THE SAME. I DONT LIKE MY MONEY BEING USED TO KILL PEOPLE SORRY YOU FEEL THE SAME END OF STORY....

P.S. It seems to me Diunei you are trying play both sides I hope I'm wrong. Have a nice day.

"BTW, I forgot to add that "Jewish parasites" was paraphrasing the meaning your posts, and it is very accurate at that. Or is "welfare-added GDP" supposed to mean otherwise?"



Like I thought you are still the same in sheeps clothing Diunei so leave me alone man go find someone else to bug...SHOOO

I'm not looking for any trouble but you are you are destorying this thread.....PLEASE ACT LIKE A MOD your abusing your powers..THE END

@Llakos:

If you want to voice your opinion, then I encourage that.  But you can do so in a more tactful way.  I have said it to Polezei and even to Mike.

As for your assertion of playing both sides, I don't entirely understand your meaning.  If you are referring to me playing Devil's Advocate, then as co-administrator that is my "job" here because it is meant to provoke lively debate.  If you are trying to accuse me of trying to stir up trouble between you and Mike, that is not necessary because I have Mike's full backing, and thus a moot point.

To Dan: Read and enjoy ..... U owe Hellinistic culture alot more and has offered much more to you and your hebrew heritage..... 

 

 

 

A message for Hanukkah. Does the struggle with the Hellenists still go on in our day?

GREEK OR HEBREW HERITAGE?

     In the days of the Maccabees, God’s people were engaged in a life and death struggle with the Greeks and their ideas. Israel’s adversary in the second century B.C. was Antiochus Epiphanes, ruler of Syria, and one of the subsequent heirs of the Greek world-conqueror, Alexander the Great. The plan of Antiochus was to "Hellenize" the whole empire, including tiny and seemingly insignificant Israel. Hellenization meant complete conformity in Israel to Greek ideas, in all secular fields and especially in religion. Long before the Greeks came into prominence, the angel had warned Daniel that the "prince of Greece" would come (Dan. 10:20). The scripture was thus fulfilled.

     The scholar D.S. Russell in his work, From Early Judaism to Early Church, tells us just how far the Greeks went in accomplishing their purposes: "Jewish youths (young priests among them) enrolled and took part in the games. Many wore the distinctive cap of Hermes, the patron of Greek sports, and athletes tried to remove the mark of circumcision so as to avoid the derision of the crowds...Some of the influences were insidious; others were quite open as in the case of the games in the gymnasiums which were normally accompanied by sacrifices to heathen gods." It was against these influences that the Maccabees or Hasmoneans finally rose up in revolt.

     This clash with Greek culture did not only affect the ancient world. It mightily affects us today, in the early years of the twenty-first century. We see in Daniel that the Greeks are part of the four world empires, which would continue to dominate humanity from Daniel’s time until our own day. We also see from Daniel that these empires all fall at the same time (Dan. 2:35). From Revelation 18:1-24, we learn that this does not happen until the end days. Until these kingdoms fall, their spiritual and insidious influences will continue to affect our world, including Israel and the church. It may be that of these four world empires and their systems, we have been most affected by the Greeks.

     Let us look at a few things we have received from the Greeks.EMPHASIS UPON PHILOSOPHY, WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE

     Of all earth’s societies, the Greeks were the masters at philosophy, arguments, and the pursuit of wisdom and knowledge. The scripture summarizes it well in saying, "... Greeks look for wisdom..." (1 Cor. 1:22). It is sobering to realize that four hundred years before Christ’s coming, the Greeks were already discussing such things as the atomic theory. The Greeks left us this legacy of knowledge, and the undue emphasis upon it has permeated society and the church. This Greek influence is today often reflected in the idea that education is the cure for all earth’s ills. Although some of the campus riots in recent years have undermined this theory somewhat, it is still widely accepted.

     The Greeks also looked at knowledge and its acquisition much differently than the Hebrews. The great Jewish theologian, Abraham Joshua Heschel, says of this: "The Greeks learned in order to comprehend. The Hebrews learned in order to revere. The modern man learns in order to use. To Bacon we owe the formulation, ‘Knowledge is power.’ This is how people are urged to study: knowledge means success."*

     Unfortunately, the Greeks with all their wisdom and knowledge did not find the true God. He was "unknown" to them as we see in Acts 17:23. The knowledge of the true God only comes by revelation and not by the intellectual pursuit of man. When Simon Peter recognized Jesus as Messiah in Matthew 16:17, the Lord reminded him: "...Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."

     When the Apostle Paul visited Athens he provoked a clash of the Hebrew and Greek concepts. Sometime after his visit Paul remarked, "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified" (1 Cor. 2:2). In another place Paul speaks these words on God’s behalf: "...I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Paul knew that God had turned the wisdom of this world into total foolishness (1 Cor. 1:19-20). He knew that man could never find God by wisdom, and that God, by the foolishness of preaching the Gospel, has determined to save those who would believe (1 Cor. 1:21-24).

     Now, there is a biblical wisdom as is seen in Psalm 111:10 and many other places, but this wisdom is far different from that of the Greeks. It is a wisdom based upon respect for God and obedience to his commandments. This wisdom is centered in knowing Jesus, who is the source of all understanding. The Bible assures us that in Christ "...are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Col. 2:3).THE LEGACY OF HUMANISM

     We have only to look in our encyclopedias to realize that Humanism, which so saturates our modern thought, had its origin with the Greeks, particularly with Protagoras and Socrates. The humanistic idea claimed that man is the center of focus in the world. Protagoras, a fifth century BC teacher is noted for his famous dictum, "Man is the measure of all things..."

     Obviously, this doctrine neatly eliminates God. It also eliminates faith, miracles, and the whole realm of the spiritual and supernatural. It exalts man, his knowledge and his reason. The writer Lev Shestov in his book Athens and Jerusalem says, "Reason, I repeat, has ruined faith in our eyes...it has taken away from us the most precious of heaven’s gifts--the sovereign right to participate in the divine ‘let there be’- by flattening out our thought and reducing it to the plane of the petrified ‘it is.’"THE HERITAGE OF GREEK THEOLOGY

     Along with the Greek heritage has come the idea of an utterly transcendent god. The Greek idea of god was one detached from the world and from man. In diametrical opposition to this is the Hebrew idea of God, as one who is identified with the world and with man. Remnants of this Greek idea are seen today in many world religions, and even sometimes in Christianity, with the impersonal concept of "that man upstairs."

     Soon after Christianity was born, there was a centuries-long clash with this Greek idea of transcendence. It was reflected in the early Christian heresy of Gnosticism, and was later manifested in the church’s struggle to define the nature of Christ. The church creeds are evidence of this ancient struggle.

     The Greeks bequeathed us other things in the field of theology. The concept of "dogma" is basically a Greek one and has come from the philosophers. But perhaps one of the most damaging things the Greeks gave us was the allegorical method of interpreting scripture. This method of interpretation, although used sparingly in the Bible, was introduced wholesale into the Judeo-Christian heritage by the Jewish writer, Philo, and later by the Church Father, Origen. Through the allegorical method, it was possible for early preachers to take an Old Testament scripture and preach whatever they wished from it. With this type teaching and preaching, the people of Israel and the land of Israel were soon allegorized and treated only as types with no continuing significance. The church soon displaced Israel almost entirely in its theological schemes. Other important Bible teachings, such as the literal millennium, were also allegorized.OTHER GREEK CONTRIBUTIONS

     The Greeks gave us many other things, but we have no space to deal with them all. They gave us the emphasis upon rhetoric rather than upon inspiration. This has resulted in centuries of flowery sermons instead of the former prophetic proclamations. They gave us the emphasis upon words rather than upon deeds, or a biblical lifestyle. All this clashed with the Hebraic concept of "doing" and not just "talking." Still in the church today there often seems to be more emphasis upon having doctrine properly formulated than upon getting the doctrine into practice.

     As the Greek philosophers once tended to withdraw from the world, certain Christians also began to go into retreat. These retirees became known as "solitaries" or "monachoi" in the Greek. The places of solitude where they retreated came to be known as "monasterion," from whence we get "monastery."

     Thus, we can plainly see that after two thousand years, the Greeks are still touching and influencing Christendom. We know in time that the Lord will bring down this Greek image and its subtle influences on our lives. At that time he will establish the Messianic Kingdom forever. Until that time, as individuals we have an opportunity to stand valiantly like the Maccabees of old. We have our chance to oppose the Greek system of values and the humanism attached to it. We have an opportunity to return to the true and wholesome Hebrew root of Israel and the Bible, the root into which God has grafted us.

                                                                                           - Jim Gerrish

Resources: Edwin Hatch, "The Influence of Greek Ideas and Usages Upon the Christian Church," Hendrickson

Publishers, Inc., Peabody, Mass., 1995.

*Abraham J. Heschel, Between God and Man, An interpretation of Judaism, The Free Press, London, 1959

Who said Mike what are you talking about.
For the comment you made ""If you are referring to me playing Devil's Advocate, then as co-administrator that is my "job" here because it is meant to provoke lively debate.""


Diunei me and Dan have enough lively debate we don't need you throwing more gas into the flame so please reframe from being a JERK I don't want to waste my time arguing something senseless that wont come of anything. So let'e debate not FLAME AS YOU HAVE MADE IT. So please calm down and act civil..
Thanks Llakos

Nice thread guys, I support heated debates thats why the number of responses in here is more than 40,

take out knives, pistols, grenades and slaughter each other  within the rules. I think rules are intact by all parties.

ILLYRIA were have you been I don't see you in Worlds Armed Forces Forum any more for months what happen...Good to see you here

" think those are noble thoughts, Anglo. But lets make them even MORE noble! Instead of giving away the Palestinians homes with your benificent proposal, why don't you give away YOUR home? Thats right, donate your home and possessions to the state of Israel! I mean, if you're ready to give away someone elses property in this great act of generosity, you should be willing to give away YOUR PROPERTY? Dontcha think????

You get my drift, bucko???"

Yes, but if someone through me out of my house, I would be extremely angry... but I wouldn't pick up a rifle and start shooting pregnant women, and strap a bomb to my chest and detonate myself in a marketplace filled with women and children.

I said it was WRONG to take their land... it was also WRONG to start killing innocent Israeli civilians... the only point I was trying to make is that there are no "good guy" in this conflict.

United We Stand.



"Now, while still pursuing the method of realising our overall strategic concept, I come to the crux of what I have travelled here to say. Neither the sure prevention of war, nor the continuous rise of world organisation will be gained without what I have called the fraternal association of the English-speaking peoples. This means a special relationship between the British Commonwealth and Empire and the United States. Thus, whatever happens, and thus only, shall we be secure ourselves and able to work together for the high and simple causes that are dear to us and bode no ill to any. Eventually there may come—I feel eventually there will come—the principle of common citizenship, but that we may be content to leave to destiny, whose outstretched arm many of us can already clearly see.

Winston Churchill

So anglo whats your adress I have a friend thats needs a house.
Cause here in Southern California were I live middle class home's start in the high 400,000$ mark ours was aprasied at 750,000$ I wanted to sell but what I would have got is about the same kinda home unless I went to the ghetto were I could get a city block.j/k
But yeah if you don't put up a fight my friend would like it.LOL



Anglo what area are you from?

ILLYRIA were have you been I don't see you in Worlds Armed Forces Forum any more for months what happen.

 

Thanx for asking even though we had some fist fights on the other forum.

Well I dont like the other forum,I dont like the owner of it.I think he is a huge jerk that cant stand when people treat him equal. This forum has a different environment, and it is fair and tolerant. In the long run you will realize that, even though you have alittle dispute with Diunei here.

By the way there is the Flame Forum if you guys want to go at it even more, where u can be direct at each other,

i think this heated debate at this point makes things interested.I suggest we keep things under the rules and if you get bothred by someone u can be alittle patient here and use the Flame forum to tell the other person things off, so we can avoid ruining the thread for others.....

ILLYRIA yah there's no need for me and Diunei to flame I just want too debate. Plus I like the environment here it's seem's nice here. Plus if it weren't for RussianPride I would of never found this site. THANKS RUSSIANPRIDE...

@Llakos:

I may have misinterpreted some of your remarks with legitimate criticisms so please excuse me for that. 

But I make no apologies for calling you out on what I feel is a lack of tact at certain points.  And I will continue to pose questions to challenge both sides of a debate wherever I can.

"So anglo whats your adress I have a friend thats needs a house.
Cause here in Southern California were I live middle class home's start in the high 400,000$ mark ours was aprasied at 750,000$ I wanted to sell but what I would have got is about the same kinda home unless I went to the ghetto were I could get a city block.j/k
But yeah if you don't put up a fight my friend would like it.LOL"

Right I would fight YOUR FRIEND... but I wouldn't murder his infant daughter... and I wouldn't murder someone who had nothing to do with the decision... and thats what the palestinian terror groups are doing...





United We Stand.



"Now, while still pursuing the method of realising our overall strategic concept, I come to the crux of what I have travelled here to say. Neither the sure prevention of war, nor the continuous rise of world organisation will be gained without what I have called the fraternal association of the English-speaking peoples. This means a special relationship between the British Commonwealth and Empire and the United States. Thus, whatever happens, and thus only, shall we be secure ourselves and able to work together for the high and simple causes that are dear to us and bode no ill to any. Eventually there may come—I feel eventually there will come—the principle of common citizenship, but that we may be content to leave to destiny, whose outstretched arm many of us can already clearly see.

Winston Churchill

Where to beggin, Ok Anglo first.

""Yes, I agree that the way in which the Palestinians were treated is unfortunate... but at the same time, the Jews had a right to that land as well. There was a significant Jewish population living there far before 1947...""




I disagree, the European Jews, or the Russian Jews have no right to that land, the Jews that were there before 1947 were immigrants as well from the 1800's, the Palestinians have been there for more than 2000 years. Just because you religion happens to be Jewish, that doesn't mean you can claim it as your ancient historical land.
We need to remember that Jewish is a religion, not a race.
Like I said before, the UN had no right to give land to a religious group that wasn't theirs to begin with.


""That is a little one-sided in my oppinion. The way the Jews have acted towards the palestinians is reprehensible... but the way the palestinians have acted is equally reprehensible. It is time to accept that there are no good guys in this situation. Both sides have legitimate claims to the land, and both sides have commited attrocities.""


This whole Israeli/Palestinian mess has always been one-sided, almost always in favor of the Israeli side. The Israelis however have been far worse, countless of Children have deliberately been shot in the head by Israeli snipers, they are after all, are known for that. There are literally dozens of massacres that have been committed by the Israeli Army in refuge camps, killing thousands of civilians, some of these massacres have been lead by none other than Ariel Sharon, if this world were fair, this bastard would be tried as a war criminal for crimes against humanity. But the only thing that gets attention is a suicide bomber who kills a dozen innocent people, that I don't like either.
What doesn't get attention is a 2000Lbs bomb dropped on an apartment building to kill one suspected terrorist, in the process killing 20 or so innocent civilians, and they laugh about it, calling it a success. Or firing a hellfire missile at a car on a crowded street trying to kill a suspected terrorist, with no regard for bystanders who die as well. How about bulldozing homes of family members of suspected terrorist with people still inside regardless of their guild, or using civilians as human shields. Lets not forget the Tank fire into civilian demonstrating people, I could go on ,and on, it's all available on the internet. The Palestinians are no angels by any means, but they are fighting for their survival.



""But Polizei, I think your attitude is slightly anti semetic. The jews have had a rougher time historically than anyone else... times 5. After the holocaust, all they wanted was their own state, where they could live together as a people, and isolate themselves from the opression they had experienced in Europe and Russia and elsewhere. Is that REALLY so much to ask? There was a significant jewish population already in Palestine, and they had a historic connection to this place as a homeland... and had as much right to it as anyone else.""


I'm sorry, but I don't see it your way, I'm criticizing a country, not the Jewish religion, allot of people have had hard times through out history, but that is not an excuse for what they are doing. The United States is a huge country, allot of land is not used, why didn't the UN appropriate some US soil for the Jews? Why did the Palestinians have to give up their land for a persecuted religious group?
The original Jewish race may have had ties to the middle east, but today's Jews are not a race. Is it really that much to ask? You tell me, how would you fell if the UN decided to give half of the USA to religious group with no land?


""Does that make it right to kick some of the Palestinians of their land? Of course not... but it certaintly makes it understandable.

But you know what ISN'T understandable? Strapping a bomb to your chest and getting on a school bus, or running into a marketplace.""



I do not think it is understandable at all, and your right, strapping a bomb to your chest, and getting on a bus is terrible, but so is a hellfire missile, LGB, Bulldozing homes with civilians still inside.

Landi
Additionally, the US backs annual loans that Israel takes out-and almost never pays back, leaving
Uncle Sugar to pick up the tab.

Listen U moron,
Israel did pay and still paying those loans, the Guarantees are only for law interest,
US aid to Israel is not more then $3 billions including different projects.

Llakos
Dan go to CIA FACT BOOK....LoL you fool here are the stats from the CIA

Well i did check and it is too embarrassing for U my foolish friend.
The "facts" didnt was accurate for example:
Israel population in 2002 was more then 6.5 millions and not 6.2 millions like the CIA "facts" book say.
Israel population grow is ~1.8 and not 1.2.

So i have checked the numbers in the world bank organization and guesse what?
the numbers are even better then what i have thought.
here are link for Israel and for Greek
http://devdata.worldbank.org/external/CPProfile.asp?SelectedCountry=ISR&CCODE=ISR&CNAME=Israel&PTYPE=CP

http://devdata.worldbank.org/external/CPProfile.asp?SelectedCountry=GRC&CCODE=GRC&CNAME=Greece&PTYPE=CP

now GDP :
Israel GDP is ~$104 billions
Greek GDP is ~$133 billions.
GDP per capita :
Israel $16,020
Greek $11,660

There are lots of info in those table for example:
The number of people usning the internet in Israel is 2 millions while in Greek it is 1.7 millions
(Greek have more ppl)

Man U R almost third world country, i hope for U that the situation will change for good ,
U have to hold on, good days will come.

For question # 1 LOL DAN YOU DUMB GYPSY we Greeks never left our land unlike your selves
that left and came back 2000 years later to claim your state.

I prepare to be dumb Gypsy and not crappy racist like U.
Haha U still think U R the old Greeks ? U little moron
This is what happend when nations have nothing to be proud- they living on dreams,
the Iranian believe they are the descendants of Cyrus.
Yeah , we live our land we came back we force to live and came back again.... bla bla bla,

I've heard this before from Jews that say Greeks of ancient Greece are no more
but all I have to say is I'm from Tripoli Tegea we've been here longer than your Torah or Mosses.
Well if U heard it so it must be true.

I truely feel bad for you Dan you are still looking for idenity as a Jewish people.
Haha ,We are looking for our identity did i read it right?

You need to lie to themself to feel like the supperior race I truly feel for you.
This way talk someone who have inferior feeling, poor little Greek.

Diunei
Well here in lies the problem, who expelled who?

Until 1938 (or 1939 nut sure) there was Jewish population living in Hebron not "europeans Jewish" ,
in 1938 the arabs ( at that time there was no such thing palestinian)
slaughter part of the Jewish ppl in the city, all the other Jewish have to run away.
This happend before the creation of the state of Israel , before the "settlements" before the "occupation" ....
Such slaughter happend in Jaffa and in other areas.

It is true that in 1948 some arabs (again nobody including them did not call them palestinians) are force to leave,
but most of them leave because of the arabs "Fabrication Machine", they spread rumors like that Israelis are raping
the woman and so on, thos rumors caused most of them to run away.

Why couldn't an Israeli constitution protect religous freedoms,
meaning that Judaism would never die? Why couldn't this same constitution protect language rights,
meaning that Hebrew would remain an official language? And above all, why can't Jewish families
continue to practise Jewish traditions and pass on their culture to their children?

Again, the arabs want one state because they know it will be in few years one palestinians state,
Just look what happend in Lebanon,
at 1910 the christians ( the Marons) was the majority , the muslim was minority . Today Lebanon is Shiite state ( not formally)
the christians are running away.

Anyway, this question is not on the table from our side, infact if we had more Jewish in Israel we would not
give them any part of the land .

BTW arabic is official language in Israel.

ILLYRIA

I did not read the article but trust me that i know the Maccabim story very well.

Israel does not repay loan guarantees, they are forgiven before they are due.


Economist tallies swelling cost of Israel to US
By David R. Francis | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.

This is an estimate by Thomas Stauffer, a consulting economist in Washington. For decades, his analyses of the Middle East scene have made him a frequent thorn in the side of the Israel lobby.

For the first time in many years, Mr. Stauffer has tallied the total cost to the US of its backing of Israel in its drawn-out, violent dispute with the Palestinians. So far, he figures, the bill adds up to more than twice the cost of the Vietnam War.

And now Israel wants more. In a meeting at the White House late last month, Israeli officials made a pitch for $4 billion in additional military aid to defray the rising costs of dealing with the intifada and suicide bombings. They also asked for more than $8 billion in loan guarantees to help the country's recession-bound economy.

Considering Israel's deep economic troubles, Stauffer doubts the Israel bonds covered by the loan guarantees will ever be repaid. The bonds are likely to be structured so they don't pay interest until they reach maturity. If Stauffer is right, the US would end up paying both principal and interest, perhaps 10 years out.

Israel's request could be part of a supplemental spending bill that's likely to be passed early next year, perhaps wrapped in with the cost of a war with Iraq.

Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid. It is already due to get $2.04 billion in military assistance and $720 million in economic aid in fiscal 2003. It has been getting $3 billion a year for years.

Adjusting the official aid to 2001 dollars in purchasing power, Israel has been given $240 billion since 1973, Stauffer reckons. In addition, the US has given Egypt $117 billion and Jordan $22 billion in foreign aid in return for signing peace treaties with Israel.

"Consequently, politically, if not administratively, those outlays are part of the total package of support for Israel," argues Stauffer in a lecture on the total costs of US Middle East policy, commissioned by the US Army War College, for a recent conference at the University of Maine.

These foreign-aid costs are well known. Many Americans would probably say it is money well spent to support a beleagured democracy of some strategic interest. But Stauffer wonders if Americans are aware of the full bill for supporting Israel since some costs, if not hidden, are little known.

One huge cost is not secret. It is the higher cost of oil and other economic damage to the US after Israel-Arab wars.

In 1973, for instance, Arab nations attacked Israel in an attempt to win back territories Israel had conquered in the 1967 war. President Nixon resupplied Israel with US arms, triggering the Arab oil embargo against the US.

That shortfall in oil deliveries kicked off a deep recession. The US lost $420 billion (in 2001 dollars) of output as a result, Stauffer calculates. And a boost in oil prices cost another $450 billion.

Afraid that Arab nations might use their oil clout again, the US set up a Strategic Petroleum Reserve. That has since cost, conservatively, $134 billion, Stauffer reckons.

Other US help includes:

• US Jewish charities and organizations have remitted grants or bought Israel bonds worth $50 billion to $60 billion. Though private in origin, the money is "a net drain" on the United States economy, says Stauffer.

• The US has already guaranteed $10 billion in commercial loans to Israel, and $600 million in "housing loans." (See editor's note below.) Stauffer expects the US Treasury to cover these.

• The US has given $2.5 billion to support Israel's Lavi fighter and Arrow missile projects.

• Israel buys discounted, serviceable "excess" US military equipment. Stauffer says these discounts amount to "several billion dollars" over recent years.

• Israel uses roughly 40 percent of its $1.8 billion per year in military aid, ostensibly earmarked for purchase of US weapons, to buy Israeli-made hardware. It also has won the right to require the Defense Department or US defense contractors to buy Israeli-made equipment or subsystems, paying 50 to 60 cents on every defense dollar the US gives to Israel.

US help, financial and technical, has enabled Israel to become a major weapons supplier. Weapons make up almost half of Israel's manufactured exports. US defense contractors often resent the buy-Israel requirements and the extra competition subsidized by US taxpayers.

• US policy and trade sanctions reduce US exports to the Middle East about $5 billion a year, costing 70,000 or so American jobs, Stauffer estimates. Not requiring Israel to use its US aid to buy American goods, as is usual in foreign aid, costs another 125,000 jobs.

• Israel has blocked some major US arms sales, such as F-15 fighter aircraft to Saudi Arabia in the mid-1980s. That cost $40 billion over 10 years, says Stauffer.

Stauffer's list will be controversial. He's been assisted in this research by a number of mostly retired military or diplomatic officials who do not go public for fear of being labeled anti-Semitic if they criticize America's policies toward Israel.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.htm

Dan the article is not only about Maccabim it is about greek influence in your country and it comes from a nationalistic israeli site, so if i was you i couldnt open my mouth that much....

Greek GDP is ~$133 billions.

you got to be a fool to believe greek GDP is 133,  everywhere is said to be 230billions,

so stop finding desperate analogies.....

What does it matter whether it is determined by race or relgion? Both are equally arbitrary classifications. The fact is that the Jewish people, whether you define them by race, religion, or both, have historical and ideological ties to the land, and there has always been a significant jewish population residing there, thats all I am saying. Ideally, I would not like the state of israel to exist, but rather a multi-ethnic/racial country comprised of both jews and arabs, jews and muslims. But the world isn't perfect... So I suppose we will have to settle for Israel and "Palestine."


"This whole Israeli/Palestinian mess has always been one-sided, almost always in favor of the Israeli side. The Israelis however have been far worse, countless of Children have deliberately been shot in the head by Israeli snipers, they are after all, are known for that."

Forgive me if I ask you to post a source or link that this is a systemic, state-sponsored policy.

"There are literally dozens of massacres that have been committed by the Israeli Army in refuge camps, killing thousands of civilians, some of these massacres have been lead by none other than Ariel Sharon, if this world were fair, this bastard would be tried as a war criminal for crimes against humanity"

There is conflicting information regarding these "massacres" though. Not everyone agrees that they were "massacres." Not everyone agrees on the number of people killed, and whether or not those who were killed were reacting violently in the first place.... etc... etc... etc...

"But the only thing that gets attention is a suicide bomber who kills a dozen innocent people, that I don't like either.
What doesn't get attention is a 2000Lbs bomb dropped on an apartment building to kill one suspected terrorist, in the process killing 20 or so innocent civilians, and they laugh about it, calling it a success. Or firing a hellfire missile at a car on a crowded street trying to kill a suspected terrorist, with no regard for bystanders who die as well. How about bulldozing homes of family members of suspected terrorist with people still inside regardless of their guild, or using civilians as human shields. Lets not forget the Tank fire into civilian demonstrating people, I could go on ,and on, it's all available on the internet. The Palestinians are no angels by any means, but they are fighting for their survival."

It is not the Israeli government's fault that the terrorist leaders purposefully surround themselves with civilians. The Israeli government has the right to defend itself from terrorist attacks against its civilians. If the terrorist leaders purposefully hide in civilian rich areas... the deaths are in their hands... not Israel's. If they TRULY cared about their people, they wouldn't hide in such places...



United We Stand.



"Now, while still pursuing the method of realising our overall strategic concept, I come to the crux of what I have travelled here to say. Neither the sure prevention of war, nor the continuous rise of world organisation will be gained without what I have called the fraternal association of the English-speaking peoples. This means a special relationship between the British Commonwealth and Empire and the United States. Thus, whatever happens, and thus only, shall we be secure ourselves and able to work together for the high and simple causes that are dear to us and bode no ill to any. Eventually there may come—I feel eventually there will come—the principle of common citizenship, but that we may be content to leave to destiny, whose outstretched arm many of us can already clearly see.

Winston Churchill

This is for "anglo", to see how they treat the Palestinians. These ZIONIST seem to love blood. I really dought God is with you """Dan""". I don't even think GOD would want to be associated with your ILLEAGAL STATE AND FOR THE LOVE BLOOD AND GENOCIDE.......These Picture's don't LIE........


P.S. Anglo for being American I'm surprised you actually support these CRIMINAL'S. I thought here in America we don't tollerate these injuctice's. I just thought you more of a man then that...VERY SAD....

PICTURE'S ARE GRAPHIC !!!!!!!!!CHECK LINK BELOW

http://www.geocities.com/webwarp2001/philistine.htm>

WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC!

http://stage.co.il/media/largefiles/doribenisraelkario299562. wmv

http://www.hoffman-info.com/palestine50.html

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/index6.htm

http://www.voicesofpalestine.org/massacres/

http://members.lycos.co.uk/islamonrise/genocide/page1.htm

http://www.boycottisrael.org/Is_crimes.htm

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=1200

http://www.angelfire.com/rant/truthaboutpalestine/sharon.html

http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-as.html

http://www.larouchepub.com/pr/site_packages/2002/sharon/020430sharon_crime_hist.html

http://www.desert-voice.net/sharon_crimes.htm

http://www.badil.org/Resources/War_Crimes/War_Crimes.htm


Some of these sites contain some nasty photos, and videos, be warned.

MAY GOD HAVE MERCEY ON THERE SOULS.........
MAY THE INNOCENT PEOPLE RIP.............




@8200 thank you for making my point even stronger. Your ILLEAGAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE PUT ON STREET AND SHOT LIKE MURDEROUS CRIMINALS THEY ARE. Jezz 8200 you can't see what your government is doing to the people of both sides, useing them as fodder. May GOD PUNNISH THOSE EVIL ONES WHO CONSPIRED TO DISTORY HUMANITY MAY GOD TAKE THERE EYE'S OUT AND GIVE THEM CANCER FOR THE REST OF THERE LIVES.
WHY NOT SHARE THE HOLY LAND 8200 WHY BE GREETY AND TAKE ALL FOR YOU, WHY ARE YOUR PEOPLE SO GREEDY WHY I ASK CAN'T YOU SHARE........GOD IS DIFFINITLY NOT WITH YOU 8200 HE STOPPED MASS MURDER AFTER NOAH READ THE OLD BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@ 8200
No one denies the crimes committed by terrorists.
The problem I have is when Israel makes the entire Palestinian population suffer for crimes committed by the terrorists.
Other countries have been sanctioned, boycotted, and invaded for less than what Israel does. The suffering of the Palestinians at the hands of the Israeli is un-deniable.

That link you posted is truly sad, as a matter of fact, it is sad when ever innocent people suffer, including the Israelis.

"That link you posted is truly sad, as a matter of fact, it is sad when ever innocent people suffer, including the Israelis"

to dat i agree

bat u need to liv in Israel to andstnd

my english isn't very good

ILLIRIA
so if i was you i couldnt open my mouth that much....

Tank God i am not U and U R not me , U little idiot.

you got to be a fool to believe greek GDP is 133, everywhere is said to
be 230billions,so stop finding desperate analogies.....

Haha ,
I really dont get it, did U aslo deciid to show me how much stupid U R ?
Greek real GDP is $133 billions , the number U brought is GDP in the meaning
of "purchasing power parity ".
educate yourself U moron.

""to dat i agree

bat u need to liv in Israel to andstnd

my english isn't very good""



Your English doesn't have to be good to understand.
From all the reports that have been broadcast, living in the Palestinian areas is said to be 100 hundred times worse, when you give a people nothing to loose, you will feel their wrath. Try to put your self in their shoes, just try to imagine what it must be like. With all the documentation available, how can anyone deny the hardship these people suffer at the Israeli government. There is a growing movement in your country that is aware of this, and are revolting against your government. There is a list of even soldiers that are saying no more.

Llakos
P.S. Anglo for being American I'm surprised you actually support these
CRIMINAL'S.

I am surprise U R american, U little laggardly.
Anglo is moderate comparing to other americans i now.

Your ILLEAGAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE PUT ON STREET AND SHOT LIKE MURDEROUS
CRIMINALS THEY ARE.

U sound like little ugly dog.

WHY NOT SHARE THE HOLY LAND 8200 WHY BE GREETY AND TAKE ALL FOR YOU,
WHY ARE YOUR PEOPLE SO GREEDY WHY I ASK CAN'T YOU SHARE........GOD IS
DIFFINITLY NOT WITH YOU 8200 HE STOPPED MASS MURDER AFTER NOAH READ THE OLD
BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why to share what belog to us ?
Yes we are greedy and i tell U what , I hope U R young enough so U could see
how we will increase our borders, so we will have the ALL Land Of Israel.

So now U know with whom God is,
U became expert to the Biblical stories.
What your problem?
Judaism make U feel threaten as Christians?
Dont feel confidence?

U continue to surprise me with your foolishness.

" United States is a huge country, allot of land is not used, why didn't the UN appropriate some US soil for the Jews?"

lol, they did... New York and Miami

United We Stand.



"Now, while still pursuing the method of realising our overall strategic concept, I come to the crux of what I have travelled here to say. Neither the sure prevention of war, nor the continuous rise of world organisation will be gained without what I have called the fraternal association of the English-speaking peoples. This means a special relationship between the British Commonwealth and Empire and the United States. Thus, whatever happens, and thus only, shall we be secure ourselves and able to work together for the high and simple causes that are dear to us and bode no ill to any. Eventually there may come—I feel eventually there will come—the principle of common citizenship, but that we may be content to leave to destiny, whose outstretched arm many of us can already clearly see.

Winston Churchill

""lol, they did... New York and Miami ""


LOL

Which Anti-Terror Model Do You Like?
As long as there are countries that either can't or won't take effective steps to control Islamic terrorist proliferation,from the Pyrenees to the Khyber Pass, targeted eliminations are, and will continue to be legitimate acts of national self-defense
Ariel Cohen




Three anti-terror models emerge over the last month. As world leaders were grieving in Madrid over 201 victims of the train bombing, the Pakistanis demonstrate their Keystone Cops qualities, while Israel was taking flak from the Europeans for the targeted killing of Sheikh Ahmad Yassin and Rantisi. While neither model is perfect, you be the judge which one works.

The first model is bureaucratic. It has been articulated by Javier Solana, a Spaniard who is European Union foreign policy chief. “Europe is not at war,” Solana said. “We must oppose terrorism energetically, but we must not change our way of life. We are democrats who love freedom.”

His boss, Romano Prodi, EU Commission president said that the answer to fighting terrorism is, among other things, adopting the EU Constitution more quickly. European heads of state are adopting a declaration of solidarity with Spain and a call to jointly fight terrorism and “root causes of terrorism – conflicts, poverty, deprivation and frustration.”

Dominique de Villepin, the former French Foreign Minister said that “a hard line security policy does not improve security unless it is complemented by a political strategy.” But two and a half years after 9/11 “political strategy” has not prevented the Madrid massacre.

De Villepin’s answer to fighting terror is also to speed up the transfer of power from the coalition to the United Nations in Iraq. He apparently believes that terrorism will stop after that. De Villepin’s information about Iraq was deeply flawed. He stated that under Saddam “there was no terrorism in Iraq”. However, Baghdad harbored such terrorists and operations as Ansar Al Islam, the Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi’s Al Qaeda branch, Mohammad Abbas, the hijacker of Achille Lauro cruise ship and the murderer of the disabled American Leon Klinghoffer, and Abu Nidal, the 1970s super-terrorist. Saddam’s payments of $20,000 to each Palestinian murder-suicide bomber’s family was certainly terrorism.

The European answer in their “no-war” on terrorism is more bureaucracy: Solana has appointed the Dutchman Gijs de Vries, former State Secretary of the Interior, to become the new EU anti-terrorism co-ordinator. However, European politicians warned that de Vries will be a “technical man”, “not like Tom Ridge” and the new structure will not become “an EU CIA”.

Creating a Europe-wide security service is vital in view of disappearing borders in the EU, the Madrid bombing, and the Greek pleas that Athens is not ready, security-wise, for this year’s Olympics. However, uniting European spooks will be like herding cats.

Otto Schilly, the German Interior Minister and one of the toughest European terror fighters, has warned that historic and operational differences between European security services and intelligence agencies will prevent effective information sharing. Small countries’ services are woefully underfunded.

Most importantly, continuous Europe’s anti-American rhetoric and anti-Israel stance will impede Europe’s effective struggle against financial, political, and ideological sponsors of terrorism. Solana has called Israel’s targeted killing of the Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin “extremely terrible”, while most European foreign ministers harshly denounced the Israeli operation. This included the Russian Foreign Ministry, which initiated a U.N. condemnation of the Yassin operation, while mopping up after Russian intelligence operatives who have assassinated Zelimkhan Yandarbiev, a Chechen terrorist leader in Qatar.

The second model anti-terror model, Keystone Cops, has emerged in Pakistan, where 7,000 troops have failed to storm an Al Qaeda compound which harbored up to 500 terrorists. President Pervez Musharraf has announced that a high value target, possibly Al Qaeda number two, Aiman Al Zawahiri, has been trapped. Unfortunately, the Pakistanis suffered casualties, got themselves ambushed, and fought to standstill. They ended up negotiating with local tribes in hopes to find an honorable way out.

The Pakistani army, prodded by the US, failed to bring to bear an overwhelming artillery, armor and air power to finish Al Qaeda elements off. There was a great intelligence failure. Pakistan’s ISI – the spy agency with ties to the Taliban and Al Qaeda – supposedly did not know that the besieged compound had a mile-long escape tunnel. It is also possible that Al Qaeda sympathizers inside Pakistani military and intelligence service intentionally sabotaged the operation – and their president’s orders.

The third model was demonstrated by Israelis in Gaza. Hamas leaders, Sheikh Yassin and Rantisi, were killed by helicopter launched missiles. Yassin was taken out in a short window it takes to walk from a mosque to the Sheikh’s home. Yassin, on the U.S. global top terrorist list, has founded Hamas as a militant offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, a radical Islamist organization which aims to destroy of Israel and moderate Arab regimes. Rantisi took over promising the destruction of the Jewish state.

Such operations take months of meticulous intelligence preparation and coordination between high tech assets, such as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and Israeli Air Force helicopters. This operation was akin to elimination of a senior Al Qaeda operative responsible for USS Cole attack in Yemen by an U.S. Predator UAV.

Sheikh Yassin was one of the Middle East’s biggest mass murderers of Jews and Arabs, sending Palestinian boys as young as 12 for suicide bomber training, and sanctioning mothers to become human bombs. He was responsible for death of hundreds and life-long maiming of thousands of Israeli women, children and elderly. He set up brainwashing factories in mosques and schools to legitimize and enable murder of Jews whom he called “sons of monkeys and pigs”, in preparation to total destruction of Israel. Glorifying him as a “spiritual leader” is like glorifying Dr. Joseph Goebbels as a “spiritual leader” of the Third Reich.

While not perfect, robust anti-terror operations will remain the most effective tools in a policymaker’s arsenal when diplomacy and deterrence fail. They are within the framework of international law, which provides the right of self-defense to nations which are under attack. These operations need supporting measures: interrupting terror financing, police coordination, and most importantly, the “war of ideas” – the battle for hearts and minds of Muslims.

In absence of effective nation-states able to control global radical Islalmist terrorist networks, from Madrid to Gaza to to the North Western Province in Pakistan, targeted killings are legitimate acts of national self-defense.

Ariel Cohen, Ph.D., is a Research Fellow at the Heritage Foundation.

Again, the arabs want one state because they know it will be in few years one palestinians state,
Just look what happend in Lebanon,
at 1910 the christians ( the Marons) was the majority , the muslim was minority . Today Lebanon is Shiite state ( not formally)
the christians are running away.

Why do you need to insist the "Jewish state?"  Did you know that Canada used to be only a white dominion of the British Empire, where only white settlers from British-occupied lands would be permitted to immigrate?  But Canada eventually evolved into a multi-cultural state.

Anyway, this question is not on the table from our side, infact if we had more Jewish in Israel we would not
give them any part of the land .

But if you insist that biblical Israel included all of the West Bank, Gaza and large tracts of present-day Syria and Jordan, would it not be efficient to "regain" the West Bank and Gaza with a peaceful unification?  Afterall, if you can get the Palestinians to form a union with Israel, doesn't that mean the Jewish people gain legitimate control of the West Bank and Gaza, which is the ultimate goal?

BTW arabic is official language in Israel.

You are confusing me.  On one hand you say Arabic is an official language, yet at the same time you say Israel must not allow anymore Arabs into Israel.  Are you telling me that the Bedouin Arabs (and those that agreed to fight for, and live in Israel) are the ones responsable for the Arab population growth?  I must be missing something so why don't you please fill in the gaps.

Haha ,
I really dont get it, did U aslo deciid to show me how much stupid U R ?
Greek real GDP is $133 billions , the number U brought is GDP in the meaning
of "purchasing power parity ".
educate yourself U moron

Moron the number i brought is the GDP in the meaning of Growing Domestic Product.....Every site has Greece's GDP at 230 Billion but you imbecile cant accept the truth.

What do you expect you are just an israeli leech that can survive by drinking the blood of others.....Kepp acting like this and you will be what your were 65 years ago, you will be runnign in the deserts of Arabia just like the fugitive you were 70 years ago....

Diunei
Why do you need to insist the "Jewish state?"

Do I really have to explain it? Ok
To keep our identity, to have the freedom to worship our religion, to
protect our self next time people excuse us in drinking children blood.
I must say this question "smell" bad.

But Canada eventually evolved into a multi-cultural state.

Again , Israel is alrady multicultural state, we have people from Africa,
EU ,America, Asia.
We do not have people from the Antarctica.


But if you insist that biblical Israel included all of the West Bank, Gaza
and large tracts of present-day Syria and Jordan, would it not be efficient
to "regain" the West Bank and Gaza with a peaceful unification?

Indeed they are parts of OUR land but U have to understand, the nature of the
state determinate the people.
If we will have one state which the Jewish are the minority , it will be like
any other arabs state.
I prepare to trust arab stupidity and let them play in to our hands.
The UN resolution 181 , the partition resolution, gave the arab much more
then 1967 borders, they start the war, lost, and we increase our territory.
They did not learn the lesson in 1967 and allow us to increase it again.
I trust them to give us back Damascus and Amman.
As the bible said "From the river to the river".

Afterall, if you can get the Palestinians to form a union with Israel,
doesn't that mean the Jewish people gain legitimate control of the West Bank
and Gaza, which is the ultimate goal?

U are such naive, one state also mean that the Palestinians will gain
their "legitimate" control over Tell-Aviv and other cities.

You are confusing me. On one hand you say Arabic is an official language,
yet at the same time you say Israel must not allow anymore Arabs into
Israel.Are you telling me that the Bedouin Arabs (and those that agreed to
fight for, and live in Israel) are the ones responsable for the Arab
population growth? I must be missing something so why don't you please fill
in the gaps.


20% of Israel ppl are arabs, we have two official language , Hebrew and
Arabic.
The Israeli arabs (Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship) are different
problem ,some are saying even bigger problem.
The birthrate of the muslim arab (16% of the 20%) is 3.4% in year, it mean
thet their % in the ppl is rising fast. The Bedouin have the biggest
birthrate among the muslim arabs in Israel.There are ~140,000 Bedouim in
Israel and only few hundreds are volunteer to the army each year.

The arabs in Israel (including the Bedouim) cooperate more then once with the
Palestinians and help them to attack Jewish.
The arabs in Israel attacking their own state in every forum , including the
Knesset where they are member.
In other words they are using our democracy to attack us.
Lots of the Israeli arab hold the same point of view of the palestinians.
We can accept that they R brothers and that they identify with them,
but we cannot accept them fighting against us from inside.

ILLYRIA
Moron the number i brought is the GDP in the meaning of Growing Domestic
Product.....Every site has Greece's GDP at 230 Billion but you imbecile cant
accept the truth.

No, No, No,
U little idiot Greek, the number U gave was GDP in the meaning of "purchasing
power parity" ,this is what the site refer to, visit the site again ,foolish.

Anyway the CIA "fact" book is irrelevant since it number on Israel are not
correct.
The World Bank Organization which is economic organization is much more
reliable and as U see your country is almost third world county, poor
pathetic guy (or should i say gay).


What do you expect you are just an israeli leech that can survive by
drinking the blood of others

Here it come ,
U mean christian childrens blood?

Kepp acting like this and you will be what your were 65 years ago, you
will be runnign in the deserts of Arabia just like the fugitive you were 70
years ago....

No, U wrong again,
Israel will be much more aggressive in the future and guess what their is
nothing U or stinky Greek can do.

First Dan why would my country want to do anything about your CRIMINALS. We got our own problems. That's what you seem to forget Greek's don't interfer with other people's domistic problems unlike you Jews who love buting in to people's problems and make it worse. So Dan I don't care what you say about HELLAS. We Greek's have done more in 100 years then what you Jews done in your whole history it's to bad your very JEALOUS OF A BEATIFUL PEOPLE SO SAD DAN SO SAD. Remember you are living our culture not us living your's. The only thing we got from you was GOD......WE GAVE YOU LIGHT, A BRIGHT ONE AT THAT TOOOOO....


I'll post more latter need to work now make money so I can pay my bills.....


It's getting hot in here.......

Do I really have to explain it? Ok
To keep our identity, to have the freedom to worship our religion, to protect our self next time people excuse us in drinking children blood.
I must say this question "smell" bad.

In Canada there is something called the Charter of Rights that allows people to practise whatever religion they wish, including Judaism and Islam.  Similar guarentees exist in the USA and other places.  And when people try to deny these rights to Jews or Moslems, (for example, firebombing a Jewish primay school) they are usually punished harshly.  I can assure you that many Jewish people keep their identity in Canada.

Indeed they are parts of OUR land but U have to understand, the nature of the state determinate the people.  If we will have one state which the Jewish are the minority, it will be like any other arabs state.

Jewish culture goes way beyond the idea of nation state, so I don't believe in your nation-based interpretation, and it is cultural traditions that define a people more than political institutions.  And since you admit Israel is already a multi-cultural country, don't you think strong institutions will only reinforce the cultural realities of the region?  In other words, if everybody respects laws that protect the rights of religion, cultural expression, association, etc, should that ensure that Jewish people maintain their identity?  

In fact I think a nationalistic interpretation in the manner you articulated it can be very dangerous.  In other words, was Adolf Hitler correct to want to remove Jewish, Gypsie and Slavic peoples from Germany?  Afterall, Jewish religious culture was completely alien to German culture, wasn't it?

U are such naive, one state also mean that the Palestinians will gain
their "legitimate" control over Tell-Aviv and other cities.

If indeed Israel is a multi-cultural country then this shouldn't matter, should it?  If these Palestinians were to accept being Israelis then they wouldn't be a threat, would they?  And furthermore, if indeed you believe Israel has a legitimate claim to Damascus and Amman, wouldn't that mean bringing in yet more Arabs into "Greater Israel?"  And what would you do with them, expel them?  Put them in ovens and gas chambers?  Or embrace and accept them?  Afterall, you are both Semitic peoples and a good portion of the Koran is a copy of the Torah/Old Testament, is it not?

20% of Israel ppl are arabs, we have two official language , Hebrew and Arabic.  The Israeli arabs (Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship) are different problem, some are saying even bigger problem. 

OK then, this clarifies some things.  I always thought English was the 2nd official language of Israel given the fact is was a former British colony and many prominent Israelis came from Britain (e.g. Israel's first ambassador to the UN) or the US (e.g. Binyamin Netanyahu.)  That being said, I think you are acknowledging that Arabs do have a role to play in Israel, that Arabs have always lived in Israel before the concept of Zionism came about.

The birthrate of the muslim arab (16% of the 20%) is 3.4% in year, it mean thet their % in the ppl is rising fast. The Bedouin have the biggest birthrate among the muslim arabs in Israel.  There are ~140,000 Bedouim in Israel and only few hundreds are volunteer to the army each year.

I thought Orthodox and Hassidic Jews also copulate like rabbits?  Doesn't the Israeli government offer incentives like child tax credits and child benefits?  Or subsidised daycare?  Or extended Unemployment benefits for mothers that just gave birth? 

Anyhow, what do you propose doing about the "rabbit problem," sterilise sections of the population?  If so then that makes you no better than Nazi mad scientist Adolf Eichmann. 

The arabs in Israel (including the Bedouim) cooperate more then once with the Palestinians and help them to attack Jewish.

If they are common criminals then of course they deserve punishment.  But I heard one time a Jewish Israeli sold weapons to some Arab "terrorist" just to make a few bucks.  My point is: how do you know the "collaborators" weren't simply Jewish mafia?

The arabs in Israel attacking their own state in every forum , including the
Knesset where they are member.
In other words they are using our democracy to attack us.

If indeed you believe in liberal democracy then you should expect opposition parties to "attack you" during debates.  Isn't that the role of the official opposition?

Lots of the Israeli arab hold the same point of view of the palestinians.  We can accept that they R brothers and that they identify with them, but we cannot accept them fighting against us from inside.

Can you accept Bedouin Arabs or Israeli Arabs criticising the Israeli government's policies?  Afterall, they also have an interest in reducing the causes of terrorism; I assume they also use public transit and don't like the idea of being blown up.

Diunei
In Canada there is something called the Charter of Rights that allows people
to practise whatever religion they wish, including Judaism and Islam.
Similar guarentees exist in the USA and other places.And when people try to
deny these rights to Jews or Moslems, (for example, firebombing a Jewish
primay school) they are usually punished harshly. I can assure you that many
Jewish people keep their identity in Canada.

Are U comparing the Palestinians (or any arabs for that matter) to Canada or USA?
The arabs have no freedom in their own countries (although i admit , that
after been under Israeli control for 3 decades ,the Palestinians have the
most open society in the arab world).
The ME is not the same neighborhood like America or EU, just look at the
arabs (or muslim) countries - all of them corrupt,full of dictatorship ,
religion fanatics and so on.
In the long term the only place where Jewish live will be in Israel , Jewish
are losing thier identity abroad. They have the freedom to do what they want
but they are losing the identity (assimilation).


In other words, if everybody respects laws that protect the rights of
religion, cultural expression, association, etc, should that ensure that
Jewish people maintain their identity?

Agree with that, in such case we will not need borders like in EU or the
border could be open like in US and Canada.
But thier are some big problems:
- The Palestinians are not Canadians.
- They have no respect to other religious (infact this is muslim problem)
even not for other sectors of thier own religion - the Sunni hate the Shiite
(some time more then they hate Israel), The Sunni slaughter thousands of
Shiite in Afghanistan, explosion Shiite mosque and Christian churchs in
Pakistan is something usually.
I think it was in Indonesia (not sure about the state) 4-5 years ago that
muslim attack Chinese, i remember that the muslims mark thier stores as
belong to muslim and then the mob atttack only Chines business.
-They have no respect for human rights.

In fact I think a nationalistic interpretation in the manner you
articulated it can be very dangerous.

Again ,we are not living in your neighborhood. Just look the way arab or
muslim treat each others.
Million muslim die in Iraq Iran war, they use chemical weapon against each
other.
Their is no mercy in the Islam or in this region.

For me the important thing is to keep my identity as Jewish, I am first of
all Jewish after that Israeli.

In other words, was Adolf Hitler correct to want to remove Jewish, Gypsie
and Slavic peoples from Germany? Afterall, Jewish religious culture was
completely alien to German culture, wasn't it?

I am not sure Germans want to "remove" Jewish and Gypsie from Germany, I
think it was to "remove" them from earth.
I think the Slavic supposed to be some inferior race serving the Germans but
i dont think they supposed to be "remove".
Again U are using this comparison that is not in place.
Our problem with the arabs not base on race , as i told U in the past the
arab in Israel have at least the same right as Jewish ( i think they have
even more).

If indeed Israel is a multi-cultural country then this shouldn't matter,
should it?

Israel is multicultural because Jewish are the majority, if the Palestinias
was the majority it would not be multicultural .

If these Palestinians were to accept being Israelis then they wouldn't be
a threat, would they?

I told U , the Israeli Palestinians are also problem even bigger , more
palestinians who have Israeli citizenship more problem.

And furthermore, if indeed you believe Israel has a legitimate claim to
Damascus and Amman, wouldn't that mean bringing in yet more Arabs
into "Greater Israel?"

As a Jewish Damascus and Amman belong to me, but not me or any onter Jewish
suggest to start fighting for this land.
While i am saying that Israel will increase its borders and relocated the
Palestinians (including those who have Israeli citizenship),I do not mean
Israel should start war, i am saying the arab will make another wrong
decisions and will cause it to happend like they done in 1948, 1967 and 2000.


Afterall, you are both Semitic peoples and a good portion of the Koran is
a copy of the Torah/Old Testament, is it not?

We are also both humans although seen Palestinians behave make it
questionable.

That being said, I think you are acknowledging that Arabs do have a role
to play in Israel, that Arabs have always lived in Israel before the concept
of Zionism came about.

I think U R misunderstood me, if the arabs or the paelstinians were accept
Israel as a Jewish state i would not have any problems with them.
If the Israeli arabs were loyal to thier own state (Israel) i would not have
problem with them. But this is not the situation.

I thought Orthodox and Hassidic Jews also copulate like rabbits?

Haha,
Yes they are, in fact thier birthrate is the higher in Israel ~4.4%, but
they are not the only Jewish group with high birthrate , i will post thread
dealing with Israel demographic.

Doesn't the Israeli government offer incentives like child tax credits and
child benefits? Or subsidised daycare? Or extended Unemployment benefits
for mothers that just gave birth?

All true , although they cut the subsidise in the last 2 years.

Anyhow, what do you propose doing about the "rabbit problem," sterilise
sections of the population? If so then that makes you no better than Nazi
mad scientist Adolf Eichmann.

Again U R using German motive,
We do not have to stenlise none of them.
We have to make "correct discrimination" (not sure i use the right term),
which will subsidise only Jewish.
In the current situation, Bedouin marry 2-3 woman each bring 10 children and
the man get ~$4000 from the state ( befor the cutting).
I do not have to mention that usually they do not work , they deal with
drugs, "importing" womans from east euroe for prostitution and so on.

But I heard one time a Jewish Israeli sold weapons to some rab "terrorist"
just to make a few bucks.

There was few time where we caught Israeli selling bullets to the palestinians
(infact they even was from some settlement, but they bought to justice.

If indeed you believe in liberal democracy then you should expect
opposition parties to "attack you" during debates. Isn't that the role of the
official opposition?

While i am saying they attack us i do not mean in the legitimate way like in
democratic state, I mean they are using the freedom of speech to insight
against Jewish , they are not breaking the law ,they are using the law to
undermined under the state.

Afterall, they also have an interest in reducing the causes of terrorism;
I assume they also use public transit and don't like the idea of being blown up.

Most of the Jewish and the arbs live in separate cities, more then onece
arabs in Israel found guilty in court for driving suicide bombers to Israeli
cities.

DAn you have proven us all you are a confident stubborn idiot, U live in a ****y country where u expect a bomb to explode any minute....at least in my country i enjoy the sun and the beach and have your israeli girls whore around like little sluts to get some satisfaction that they couldnt get back home.....

Rhode Island,,, what a beautiful place where israeli girls can show it all.....and we show ours....

ILLYRIA
DAn you have proven us all you are a confident stubborn idiot, U live in a ****y country where u expect a bomb to explode any minute....at least in my country i enjoy the sun and the beach and have your israeli girls whore around like little sluts to get some satisfaction that they couldnt get back home.....

Rhode Island,,, what a beautiful place where israeli girls can show it all.....and we show ours....

What no more argument abuut crappy Greek GDP?
This is all what U have to say?
Poor pathetic gay

Listen dimwitt it looks like the circumsizion didnt go well,,,and your autoerotic functions are not working properly .....

Is the word gay the best you got non-gentile dwarf....you are going way off the topic....and focus with the main subject of the thread. 

i agree with azzurro here.

AzzurreoItalia

The current Greeks ,Italians and Egyptians share almost nothing with the
ancients (Greeks, Italinas, ..), (the Greeks and maybe the Italians shares
the same old language like the ancients)not by religion and not by culture.

Jewish are also not share alots with ancient Israelis but only from culture
perspective. The old Israelis lived in Bedouin style of living, they
dressed different and thier Hebrew was different but the religion was the
same.

The current Greek do not share the same religion or culture like the old one!!!

The current Greek do not share the same religion or culture like the old one!!!

Thats the most retarded comment i have heard from any walking being.Off course greeks and romans do not believe in Zeus and Apollo anymore, just like the egyptians do not believe in osis and osiris,,,,

they are one of the first to christianize before any one did and that occurred 2000 years ago, they speak the same language called greek which has changed as much as Shakespear's english literature and modern english.....(which is regarded the beginning of the modern english). I forgot they didnt have gyros and mousakas 2000 years ago, its wierd they had feta cheese though during that time, and wine and freaken olives and olive oil,,,.....

thats true thats why romans are different also, they eat pizza now while before they didnt......

The funny thing of this is that all this comes from an Israeli jew, the least purest race of the planet, which thinks they are just because of the Torah and the Kosher......also the Hebrew national sausages are made since Noah's time.....,,,,one of the most influenced cultures from HELLENIC one....(even the most fanatic israeli sites will dedicate a honorary article about that( http://www.adath-shalom.ca/greek_influence.htm#impact4    

THE OLYMPICS ARE STILL ALIVE,,,,

The Greek Influence - Simplicity and Conviviality

The two keys to truly excellent Greek food, which has attained enormous popularity within Israel, are simplicity and conviviality. Cooking materials, methods and ingredients tend to be simple, not complex, and this is one of the great strengths of the food - whether it is consumed in the tavernas of Athens or Cos, in Israeli seaside restaurants or in the homes of Greek Israelis throughout the country.

Anyone who enjoys the Greek cuisine knows that there are no Greek gastronomic encyclopedias and there are practically no formal rules for cooks. Improvisation is always in order, adding just a bit of this or that, always increasing the pleasure of the meal. Above all, whether in the preparation or the consumption, Greek cuisine should be pleasurable.

The following recipes are examples of Greek meals.

Daniel Rogov is the restaurant and wine critic for the daily newspaper Ha'aretz. He is also the senior writer for Wine and Gourmet Magazine and contributes culinary and wine articles to newspapers in Europe and the United States.

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One of the two main cultural branches of Judaism is Sephardic, derived from the Hebrew word for Spain. Sephardic Jews are called Sephardim. For several hundred years when Moors, North African Muslims, ruled Spain and Portugal, a thriving Jewish community developed. They spoke Ladino, a mixture of medieval Spanish and Hebrew, and produced a vibrant culture.

Religiously, Sephardim did not separate into distinct movements as Ashkenazim did. Sephardic beliefs generally follow Orthodox Judaism. However, Sephardim were more integrated into their communities than Ashkenazim. Sephardic thought was heavily influenced by Greek and Arabic philosophy and science, and contained a strong mystical strain. One of the greatest Sephardic philosophers was Maimonides, who sought to reconcile Aristotle's teachings with Judaism.

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Hellenism and the Jewish Afterlife

                         By Katie Maguire                           

 

              The apocalyptic genre had been present in Judaism for centuries before the Hellenistic period. Within the traditional apocalyptic stories, the enemies of the Jewish people had always been the Babylonians, Persians, and Assyrians.  Greeks, however, took their place as the  “eschatological enemies of the people of God ” in the Jewish writings of the Hellenistic period.[1]  The unfavorable notion of Greeks in apocalyptic literature can be primarily attributed to the suffering they caused the Israelites during the Greek expansions of the Hellenistic era.  Much Jewish apocalyptic literature conveys a picture in which the Jews violently opposed the imposition of Hellenistic culture.  It is ironic that a positive Greek influence is seen in the changing Jewish religious beliefs.  Prior to the Hellenistic period the Jewish concept of the afterlife had been drastically different from what it became during that time.  Through the Jewish apocalyptic literature written during that period, we see the introduction of the concepts of the immortality of the soul, stellar immortality, and resurrection after death.  It was the Greek influence of the Hellenistic age that gave impetus to the emergence of the Jewish eschatological salvation.

                “After two thousand years of belief in the doctrine of immortality, it is somewhat difficult to realize that no hope of heavenly bliss ever cheered either Ben Sira or the Maccabees...”[2]  Before the Hellenistic period, the Jewish concept of the afterlife was a dark shadowy existence called Sheol.  When people died, that was the end of their spiritual life, as well as the end of their relationship with God.  In Psalm 6, it reads, “Turn, O Lord, save my life...For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who can give you praise?”[3]  The psalmist is praying for prolonged life, so that his relationship with God may also be prolonged, which implies that there is no relationship with God after death.  This is quite contrary to the modern Jewish belief  in the concepts of Heaven and Hell (eternal salvation or damnation), to which a relationship with God after death is central.  Psalm 6 makes it clear that eternal salvation was not an idea present in Judaism prior to Greek influence. 

                Eternal salvation is impossible without an immortal soul, thus the concept of an immortal soul is central to a belief in eternal salvation.  As previously mentioned, the apocalyptic genre was not new to the Jewish literature of the Hellenistic era, but even though the style remained the same, the religion behind it changed slightly during this time.  The new surge of apocalyptic thought was prompted by the more politically powerful cultures that were asserting power over the Jewish people, namely the Greeks and later on, the Romans.  During the Hellenistic era, the Jews of Judea were politically and militarily subordinate to the massive armies of the Ptolemies and the Seleucids.  In the middle of a battle ground between these two powers, the Jews were overcome with a sense of hopelessness that there was no justice in the world.  It would have been possible, however, to regain hope in the idea of judgment after death;  the idea that God would punish the evil with eternal damnation and reward the good with everlasting salvation.  This is the exact idea that emerges in the Biblical apocalyptic Book of Daniel, written during the Maccabean revolt.  During this period Antiochus IV, had issued a decree ordering his soldiers to “...force the Jews to forsake the laws of their forefathers and cease to live according to the laws of God.”[4]  As a result, the Jews of Judea were persecuted and oppressed if they failed to comply with Antiochus’ orders.  Because the Jewish people had no control over their surroundings, they began to take comfort in the assumption that there would be justice in the afterlife.  The Book of Daniel, though written during the Maccabean revolt, was set in the time of the Babylonian exile.  It exhibited the signs that the people of Judea desperately hoped for: “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.  Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.”[5]  Not only do we see the belief in justice after death, but we also see the idea of stellar immortality.[6]  Judaism harbored no notion of immortality prior to the Hellenistic period (as evidenced above), whereas Greek culture nurtured the idea that the dead existed as celestial bodies (see below).  Belief in stellar immortality, therefore, provides further indication of the Hellenistic influence on the Jewish religion.

                It is clear that the Jewish belief in the afterlife changed during the Hellenistic era, but what aspects of Hellenistic society shaped their ideas about the immortal soul, resurrection, and stellar immortality?  During the Hellenistic era, an interest in astrology emerged, but the Greek religions reflected the idea of stellar immortality prior to that.  Callimachus’ “The Lock of Bernice” states, “...I too...should illumine the precincts divine, installing me as a new constellation midst the old.”[7]  This indicates that the sky is the domain of the gods and that the constellations are the divinities themselves.  Even if this belief was not universally held throughout the Greek world, this poem exhibits that the concepts of the immortal soul and stellar immortality were at least present in Greek culture.

                Also important during the Hellenistic period was a focus on the individual.  The Greek philosophies during this period, for instance, displayed a distinct interest in personal happiness, which placed emphasis on the individual.  Stoic philosophy taught that personal happiness could only be achieved through virtue, and it additionally allowed for  the worship of gods/nature, which would have made it attractive to any religion.  This is the same philosophy that became popular with the Christians later on.  Christianity is, in effect, a branch of Judaism, so the two religions share several of the same beliefs and interests.  It is, therefore, not difficult to see how Judaism could be attracted to the same qualities in Stoic philosophy that Christianity later found appealing.  It is reasonable to assume that Judaism could have used the Stoic personal emphasis to shape its concept of the immortal soul.  

                Before the Hellenistic period, Judaic afterlife was defined as follows:  “All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.”[8]  This phrase is indicative of  the pre-Hellenistic Jewish idea that a person’s essence dies with his body.  The Hellenistic emphasis on the individual changed this belief within Judaism.  Inherent in the concept of a soul, is a personal survival after physical death.  The personal emphasis present in Hellenistic culture, particularly Greek philosophy, probably affected the Jewish belief in the soul, as evidenced in Daniel 12 (above).

                As evidenced by the Maccabean revolt, Judaism was an ancient and sacred institution which the Jews protected with their lives.  To have altered their hallowed religion in favor of Greek characteristics shows increasingly positive reception of Hellenistic culture, though explicitly it seems otherwise.  While the Jews were expressly writing against the oppressive actions of the Hellenistic people, they exhibited Greek characteristics within their own belief system, such as, immortality of the soul, stellar immortality and eternal salvation.  Though the Israelites were undoubtedly afraid the Hellenistic people who threatened Jewish political and religious autonomy, they found parts of Hellenistic culture appealing enough to adopt into Judaism.  As a result of the Jewish-Hellenistic contact, three ideas emerged that are paramount to not only Judaism, but to Christianity and Islam as well.  It is amazing to imagine that Judaism fostered no concept of Heaven and Hell, two ideas that seem so central to the religion today, prior to the Hellenistic period.  Since Christianity and Islam both have a Judaic base, their development was greatly effected by the concepts of eternal salvation and damnation.  The history and belief systems of the three major western religions could have been very different today, if Hellenistic culture had not effected Judaism in the ways that it did.             

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P.S
Israeli , the greek culture belongs to the humanity,

while Israeli and jewish belong to the jews and the Israeli.

there is a huge difference there. 

"""The current Greeks ,Italians and Egyptians share almost nothing with the
ancients (Greeks, Italinas, ..), (the Greeks and maybe the Italians shares
the same old language like the ancients)not by religion and not by culture."""

Yes Dan For one your right about 1 thing and 1 thing only. Yes us Greeks don't pray to the old gods anymore. But to say we aren't culturally connected to the past GREEK, it's like saying the car was invented before the wheel was...So dan you make no sense. Again dan we Greeks never left our land. I turely feel for you dan cause if that's what your parents are teaching you are one ignorent FOOL as we say here in AMERICA...I understand that you would like to make yourselves feel more suppior by desstorting the truth a common zionist action......

"""Jewish are also not share alots with ancient Israelis but only from culture
perspective. The old Israelis lived in Bedouin style of living, they
dressed different and thier Hebrew was different but the religion was the
same."""

No Comment on this.

"""The current Greek do not share the same religion or culture like the old one!!!"""

WOW dan are you a rocket scientist. Like I said we don't prey to the old gods but were still GREEK unlike you ZIONIST who are still searching.....For an IDENITY as a PEOPLE. KEEP SEARCHING.....Pal

@dan I almost forgot to ask you. Why do you zionist use THE GREEK LAMDA IN YOUR MILITARY. It seems you are looking for strength in my PEOPLE. Why do you use a GREEK Lamda emblem??????????



Here's Israeli tank with Greek LAMDA SIGN? WHY THE LAMDA ZIONIST? ISN'T THAT GREEK?

I have never heard of any famous Greek wines, I always thought Greeks simply imported them from Italy.  If there are some famous Greek wines, would somebody be kind enough to list some?

BTW, the World Bank says the Greek and Israeli 2003 GDPs are $173 billion and $103 billion, respectively. 

http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP.pdf

If you go by Purchasing Power Parity, Greece and Israel are $213 billion and $128 billion, respectively.

http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP_PPP.pdf

Greece's population, according to the EU, is 10.5 million.

http://europa.eu.int/abc/european_countries/eu_members/greece/index_en.htm

Israel's population, according to its Central Bureau of Statistics, is 5.4 million

http://www.cbs.gov.il/sidfilee.cgi

So GDP per capita is $16 476 for Greece and $19 074 for Israel.

Laki
"I understand that you would like to make yourselves feel more suppior by
desstorting the truth a common zionist action......"

1. I really dont feel suppior to anyone.
2. I understand your fellings of inferiority, if i was stinky Greek i would
feel the same.

Why do you zionist use THE GREEK LAMDA IN YOUR MILITARY.
It seems you are looking for strength in my PEOPLE. Why do you use a GREEK Lamda
emblem??????????

1. I dont now if this symbol is represent Lamda or it represent somthing else.
2. I saw that symbol also on other tank (not Israeli).
3. I have no idea what this symbol is for.

Now let assume it is Lamda and and we and other army using it, so what?
What is your worng conclusion?

In mathematics the most common symbols (while trying to prove somthing) are
the Greek symbols (Alfa, Beta and the most is Epsilon) so what??

I told U and I am telling U again:
1. U are not the ancient Greeks!
2. In any comparison with any ancient people I as a jewish will be more then proud.

I understand your problem, while having nothing to be proud in the present,
people are trying to look at the past. Unfortunately U can not do even that.

Diunei
I have never heard of any famous Greek wines, I always thought Greeks simply imported them from Italy. If there are some famous Greek wines, would somebody be kind enough to list some?

They have somthing called Uzo (it is not wine but firewater).

Some of the numbers U brought are similer to my, some are not and at least
one is wrong.

Israel PPL is more then 6.6 and we will have ~19,000 GDP per capita in year
or two.

The links i have brought are also from the word bank organization and are
accureate while it concern to Israel (at least for the number that i know).

I have never heard of any famous Greek wines, I always thought Greeks simply imported them from Italy.  If there are some famous Greek wines, would somebody be kind enough to list some?

---------------------------------------------

im preety sure you havent heard that greeks do not have any famous olive oil brands ...and they get the olive oil and olives from italy and spain just like china does....hit the search engeene if you are so eagor to know about greek wines... www.google.com search greek wines.

 

 

Economy

Greece

Top of Page

Economy - overview:	Greece has a mixed capitalist economy with the public sector accounting for half of GDP and with per capita GDP 70% of the leading euro-zone economies. Tourism provides 15% of GDP. Immigrants make up nearly one-fifth of the work force, mainly in menial jobs. Greece is a major beneficiary of EU aid, equal to about 3.3% of GDP. The Greek economy grew by 4.0% in 2003 and is expected to grow by 4.2% in 2004, the year that Athens will host the 2004 Olympic Games. Remaining challenges include the reduction of the public debt, inflation, and unemployment; and further restructuring of the economy, including privatizing several state enterprises, undertaking pension and other reforms, and minimizing bureaucratic inefficiencies.
GDP:	purchasing power parity - $212.2 billion (2003 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:	4% (2003 est.)
GDP - per capita:	purchasing power parity - $19,900 (2003 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:	agriculture: 8.1% industry: 22.3% services: 69.3% (2002 est.)
Population below poverty line:	NA%
Household income or consumption by percentage share:	lowest 10%: 3% highest 10%: 25.3% (1993 est.)
Distribution of family income - Gini index:	32.7 (1993)
Inflation rate (consumer prices):	3.3% (2003 est.)
Labor force:	4,406,700 (2nd quarter 2003 est.)
Labor force - by occupation:	industry 20%, agriculture 20%, services 59% (2000 est.)
Unemployment rate:	9.8% (2003 est.)
Budget:	revenues: $45 billion expenditures: $47.6 billion, including capital expenditures of $NA (1998 est.)
Industries:	tourism; food and tobacco processing, textiles; chemicals, metal products; mining, petroleum
Industrial production growth rate:	7% (2000 est.)

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Economy

Israel

Top of Page

Economy - overview:	Israel has a technologically advanced market economy with substantial government participation. It depends on imports of crude oil, grains, raw materials, and military equipment. Despite limited natural resources, Israel has intensively developed its agricultural and industrial sectors over the past 20 years. Israel imports substantial quantities of grain but is largely self-sufficient in other agricultural products. Cut diamonds, high-technology equipment, and agricultural products (fruits and vegetables) are the leading exports. Israel usually posts sizable current account deficits, which are covered by large transfer payments from abroad and by foreign loans. Roughly half of the government's external debt is owed to the US, which is its major source of economic and military aid. The bitter Israeli-Palestinian conflict; difficulties in the high-technology, construction, and tourist sectors; and fiscal austerity in the face of growing inflation led to small declines in GDP in 2001 and 2002. The economy grew at 1% in 2003, with improvements in tourism and foreign direct investment. In 2004, rising business and consumer confidence - as well as higher demand for Israeli exports - are forecast to boost GDP by 2.5%.
GDP:	purchasing power parity - $120.6 billion (2003 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:	1% (2003 est.)
GDP - per capita:	purchasing power parity - $19,700 (2003 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:	agriculture: 2.6% industry: 36.2% services: 61.2% (2001 est.)
Population below poverty line:	18% (2001 est.)
Household income or consumption by percentage share:	lowest 10%: 2.4% highest 10%: 28.3% (1997)
Distribution of family income - Gini index:	35.5 (2001)
Inflation rate (consumer prices):	1.1% (2003 est.)
Labor force:	2.6 million (2003 est.)
Labor force - by occupation:	public services 31.2%, manufacturing 20.2%, finance and business 13.1%, commerce 12.8%, construction 7.5%, personal and other services 6.4%, transport, storage, and communications 6.2%, agriculture, forestry, and fishing 2.6% (1996)
Unemployment rate:	10.7% (2003 est.)
Budget:	revenues: $38.5 billion expenditures: $45.1 billion, including capital expenditures of $NA (2002 est.)

 

go and take a visit to Mount Sinai...

Jewboy your country is causing american taxpayrs money>U get billions of dollars from us, and parts of my taxes goes to your economy, and you still have a 1% growth....according to those stats you are behind in almost every stat...

thank god im not a blood thirsty Israeli jew ....Dude your little desert country is not even near Greece.....

try to match yourself with Palestine and match your tech weapons with stone throwers,,, because if we were your neighbours you couldnt even try to **** with us, we could blow those nukes you have right there in your house.

ILLYRIA

Do U see the words "purchasing power parity" U moron?
U only prove my point:
1. That U R a moron.
2. This is not Greek real GDP but "purchasing power parity"


and you still have a 1% growth....according to those stats you are behind
in almost every stat...

1. Israel will have this year ~4% growth.
2. Economy is rotatory every few year it have some recession, it is true
to every country , especially to state with such problems like Israel.

Dude your little desert country is not even near Greece.....

U will have to work a lots (and better then what U heve done so far for the
olympic) to get close to us.

if we were your neighbours you couldnt even try to **** with us, we could blow those nukes you have right there in your house.

I wish U could see my laugh now.

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Greece has one of the best facilities in all sports in the world and every athelete admits that....u will need 50 years to have the sport facilities the greeks have now......and you will need centuries to be bale to host Olympics,,,if you will still exist,,which i really doubt with people like you.....