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Iraq war illegal, says Annan

September 16 2004 at 8:39 AM
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  (Login raghfarm)

 
The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter.
He said the decision to take action in Iraq should have been made by the Security Council, not unilaterally.

The UK government responded by saying the attorney-general made the "legal basis... clear at the time".

Mr Annan also warned security in Iraq must considerably improve if credible elections are to be held in January.

The UN chief said in an interview with the BBC World Service that "painful lessons" had been learnt since the war in Iraq.

"Lessons for the US, the UN and other member states. I think in the end everybody's concluded it's best to work together with our allies and through the UN," he said.

'Valid'

"I hope we do not see another Iraq-type operation for a long time - without UN approval and much broader support from the international community," he added.

He said he believed there should have been a second UN resolution following Iraq's failure to comply over weapons inspections.

And it should have been up to the Security Council to approve or determine the consequences, he added.

When pressed on whether he viewed the invasion of Iraq as illegal, he said: "Yes, if you wish. I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter from our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal."

Mr Annan's comments provoked angry suggestions from a former Bush administration aide that they were timed to influence the US November election.

"I think it is outrageous for the Secretary-General, who ultimately works for the member states, to try and supplant his judgement for the judgement of the member states," Randy Scheunemann, a former advisor to US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told the BBC.

"To do this 51 days before an American election reeks of political interference."

A UK foreign office spokeswoman said: "The Attorney-General made the government's position on the legal basis for the use of military force in Iraq clear at the time".

Australian Prime Minister John Howard also rejected Mr Annan's remarks, saying the legal advice he was given was "entirely valid".

The BBC's Susannah Price at UN headquarters in New York says Mr Annan has made similar comments before.

He has said from the beginning the invasion did not conform with the UN charter - phrasing that was seen as a diplomatic way of saying the war was illegal.

Our correspondent says Mr Annan's relationship with the US might be made a little uncomfortable for a while following his comments, but both sides are likely to want to play it down.

US President George W Bush is due to speak at the UN General Assembly next week.


Iraq elections

Mr Annan also said in the interview the UN would give advice and assistance in the run-up to the elections, but it was up to the Iraqi interim government to decide whether such a vote should go ahead.

He warned there could not be "credible elections if the security conditions continue as they are now".

The UK foreign office spokeswoman said there was a full commitment to hold elections in January.

Election and political party laws had already been passed and an independent electoral commission established.

"The task is huge and the deadline tight, but the Iraqi people clearly want elections," she said.

On Wednesday, the head of the British army General Sir Mike Jackson said national elections in Iraq were still on track.

On Monday, Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said elections must go ahead as planned although he conceded the violence might stop some Iraqis voting.


However, a day later a car bomb close to an Iraqi police station in central Baghdad killed 47 people and gunmen opened fire on a police minibus in Baquba, killing 12.





THE WORLD IS A BRIDGE, CROSS IT, BUT BUILD NO HOUSE UPON IT!

“IS THERE LIFE AFTER DEATH? ... TRESSPASS HERE AND FIND OUT”






CIA agent Geoffrey Kemp talking about Saddam Hussein:

“WE KNEW HE WAS A SON OF A BITCH, BUT HE WAS OUR SON OF A BITCH”


 
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(Login HBN2025)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 19 2004, 6:23 PM 

World people all know it is illegal invasion.



 
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(Login Paje_Brazil)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 20 2004, 1:46 PM 

Its can be illegal in Annan view or UN rules or yet in peoples words.But for US and others its a legal,necessary,good and a great war against not only Saddan and ex-Iraq country like yet against all world people,country or person that try to force others to follow their retards fanatical religious rules or ideological bad ideas from pass times like communisn,facism and etc.

 
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(Login Diunei)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 20 2004, 2:30 PM 

The reason the Iraq war was illegal is because international law is based on jurisprudence, (based on precedents.)  And the precedents in UN resolutions that were set for declaring war (Korea, Kuwait and 2001 Afghanistan wars) was the key phrase "...by all necessary means."

The problem with pro-Iraq war hawks is that they base their arguments on a codefied model, as if there were clear cut definitions of all actions/reactions, i.e. like the US constitution.  International law is NOT codefied, therefore the unanonymous resolution passed in late 2002 against Iraq cannot be used as a legal foundation.


 
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Koz4k
(Login Koz4k)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 20 2004, 3:38 PM 

Actually International law doesn't have to be based on jurisprudence at all. Jurisprudence is of importance when situations occure where you can't compare previous situations. It is hard to actually call this "jurisprudence" since you need a judge to to do so. And there is no judge in this case. All other International law says that you can go to war if you are attacked or threatend. US wasn't being attacked by Iraq and neither was it threatend. Anyway, jurisprudence is of greater importance in countries where there is a "common law" system and International law has some great differences. And I seriously doubt the US would have the balls to take this to the ICJ to prove the war was legal.

The US invaded to "remove" Iraqi WMD. Not only did Iraq not have any WMD, but the UN didn't mandate the invasion. This was is as illegal as wars can get. The US is trying to say that previous resolutions are still valid, but then you would still need UN permission if you claim Iraq is in breach of UN resolutions. The US is in no position to say if that if this is true or not, that is up to the UN and the UN stated that it was too soon to say. But the weapons inspectors were kicked out before they could finish. They didn't even get the extra time they asked for.



 
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Mike Murphy
(Login viperbite777)
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Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 20 2004, 3:45 PM 

good post koz thanks for your contribution.

 
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meemperor
(Login meemperor)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 20 2004, 4:23 PM 

Can you tell me the last time the UN was useful ? Thats right in Iraqi the first time and they didn't get the job done.

Bosnia and Afganistan could have easily been done by NATO forces alone, and were mostly done by NATO forces.

Mr. Annan, with all due respect, is a fool to go against the United States so haphazardly. Lets face it, you can get a lot more done when you have the worlds only superpower backing you with military, political and financial support rather than what is happening now and the US moving further away from the UN.

Another thing is, when does it matter if it is a "legal war". It's idiotic to justify any war, because there is always a purpose for war, no matter how stupid it is, there is always a purpose. Now, what are the consequences of the US not obeing international laws anyway ? Will the most powerful man on the planet be taken to jail ? Will the US face harsh punishments from the UN ?

If Mr.Annan was so sure it was an illegal war, then why didn't he say so when there were 150,000 US troops on the border of Iraq having war games and invasion traing for the last minute ? Why not say it when the massive air campagin started ? Why not broadcast this "amazing" news over CNN and BBC and all the other major news networks on Earth !?!?!

Saying a war or invasion is illeagal is useless unless there is going to be something done about it.

---------------------------------------------


"deeds, not words"


 
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(Login Sylent88)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 20 2004, 4:27 PM 

of course it was illegal....But who gives a flying fart about a phony organization like the UN ? The UN is not an independent entity.it's decision makings are the direct result of outside pressure. It all depends how much pressure you exert....Sometimes they are on the US's side....sometimes they repeat what the EU leaders say..

 
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Diunei Lingyen
(Login Diunei)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 20 2004, 5:05 PM 

@Koz:

It is true that international law could very well be codefied IF the major powers could agree on that.  But the major powers cannot, therefore international law is basically a patchwork of different statutes and reactions based on only a handful of events.  War is one illustration of this; the UN only declared war three times in its history (Korean War declaration being tortuous at that.)  Given that there were only three cases on which to base precedents, there has been a near limitless amount of controversy and hence very little margin for error.  And even the definition of this "margin" is subject to lots of criticism.

As for putting this case to the ICC, because international law is "patchwork" jurisprudence at best, the USA would lose its case.  But it's not as if the UN could efficiently punish any country major country for such a violation.


 
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Koz4k
(Login Koz4k)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 21 2004, 5:33 AM 

That's true.

US wouldn't stand a chance in the ICJ.



 
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Diunei Lingyen
(Login Diunei)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 21 2004, 3:14 PM 

Can you tell me the last time the UN was useful ? Thats right in Iraqi the first time and they didn't get the job done.

UN has been a huge success with its sub-organisations like the World Health Organisation (WHO), ICAO and International Standards Organisation (ISO), for example.  Put simply, those organisations allow the things you take for granted to happen seamlessly, things like vaccinations, air and rail travel, electricity distribution (e.g. voltage regulation,) disease control and many other things.  And you forget that Canada has relied on the UN since its inception (that's right, both Conservative and Liberals) to have international influence, in everything from peacekeeping to the Ottawa treaty banning anti-personal land mines.


 
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meemperor
(Login meemperor)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 21 2004, 4:42 PM 

W.H.O. ? LMFAO, They realyl tell me useful information....

---------------------------------------------


"deeds, not words"


 
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Diunei Lingyen
(Login Diunei)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 22 2004, 7:46 AM 

W.H.O. ? LMFAO, They realyl tell me useful information....

Like I said, you take the WHO for granted because they do mundane stuff like standardise the development of vaccines or coordinate the fight against superbacteria, for example.  Quite frankly there is a good chance that you'd be dead from polio, turburculosis, small pox or other diseases that you are vaccinated against as a toddler.


 
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(Login meemperor)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 22 2004, 5:20 PM 

Ummm ? no. Considering those things are regulated by the Government of Canada and most of those sures were created before the WHO was even in place.

As for peacekeeping, I fully don't agree with Canada's peacekeeping contingents and would have never commited as many troops as there are for operations that just tax troops, troops Canada doesn't have to send of missions they don't want to be on.

---------------------------------------------


"deeds, not words"


 
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(Login Diunei)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 22 2004, 7:00 PM 

Ummm ? no. Considering those things are regulated by the Government of Canada and most of those sures were created before the WHO was even in place.

You miss the point entirely.  It is the WHO (of which Canada is an influential member) that helps develop the guidelines, safety protocols, etc. for the development of vaccines.  There is a big difference between regulating the sales of products in Canada, and following accepted international guidelines on how to test and develop a protocol.  In other words, the chemists and microbiologists that develop medicines have been trained to a certain standard and by certain protocols; those standards and protocols are established by the WHO.  And it was the WHO that helped coordinate the efforts to contain SARS.

As for creating the national structures within Canada, those weren't established until the Canada Health Act was passed in 1984 (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/medicare/home.htm) whereas the WHO was established on 1948-04-07 (http://www.who.int/about/en/)


 
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(Login Western_Commander)

Western_Commander

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September 23 2004, 12:07 AM 

Hey meemperor

i like the pic of those Canadian Hornets...

 
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Anonymous
(Login Fantaros)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 23 2004, 2:54 AM 





The bombing of Serbia in 1999 was also against international law as well and also bypassed the UN sec.council.

 
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(Login ILLIRIA)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 23 2004, 3:17 AM 

Gia sou Fantare kalos irthes.

The bombing of Serbia in 1999 was also against international law as well and also bypassed the UN sec.council.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is not the same at all. The law says that  if one country vetoes then you cant confirm any action.In this case it was vetoes only by Russia because of their slavic connection with the serbs...

All the countries participated and were ready to flatten Serbia on foot if it was necessary.You got everyone there, because **** had gone over the head, you got the french,germans,brits,turks,spaniards, everybody was one.

Today the other countries are against.Everybody was against except the Coalition of the Willing,which included except USA and England, Papua Guinea,Afghanistan(lololol1lo1l1)Ecuador,El Salvador,Virgin Islands,Turks and Caicos,Trinidad and Tobago and some other major powers....




 
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(Login ILLIRIA)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 23 2004, 3:23 AM 

Sorry for afghanistan the lo1l1ol1ol11ol thing, im laughing because Bush has played alot of Risk and World Domination games.It is exactly the same thing.Every country you conquer you place it on your side.


 
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Anonymous
(Login Fantaros)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 23 2004, 3:27 AM 






Gia sou Illyria!,

Anyway, you got a point about more nations supporting the UN effort in Serbia. But how did they legally go ahead with it even without the Russians who vetoed the bombing of Serbia?. I mean doesn't a veto from a permanent SC member mean anything?.

 
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(Login ILLIRIA)

Re: Iraq war illegal, says Annan

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September 23 2004, 3:42 AM 

I mean doesn't a veto from a permanent SC member mean anything?

---------------------------------------

I agree with that. The U.N thing was by itself unbalanced to start.

First of all USA pays 30% of the total budget of U.N out of all the countries in the world. That by itself  shows how biased U.N is.

How though everything that U.S.A seems to endorse turns against them. Afghanistan was supported by the Americans along with Bin Laden, also Saddam during the Iran war...

Now even U.N is turning against, for gods sake thats an american property. 1st avenue and 46 street here in New York.At least there is no need to invade it.(lolol1o1)




 
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