Words have well-defined meanings. We must agree to their meanings in order to communicate efficiently and effectively.
In response to my post “Stealing? Perhaps influence, inspiration?” David wrote, “Stealing here is a metaphor for the general socially unjust situation for musicians who couldn't make as much money on the same ideas that other musicians taking these could. The taking and using for gain is not the issue, but rather that the originators couldn't gain [you should have added “as much” as you did in the previous sentence].”
That is a peculiar definition of “stealing.” In my book, stealing is not necessarily related to gain or absence of gain. Stealing is the taking of property from an individual or organization without having specific permission from the owner.
It is easy to see the meaning of stealing about material objects, and they have no necessary relation to financial gain on the part of the thief or financial loss on the part of the victim. Suppose a burglar comes into my house and takes an album of family photographs. After leaving, he/she realizes that the album has no value and tosses it in a garbage can, to be lost forever. There is no financial gain on the part of the thief, there is no financial loss on the part of the victim, only an emotional loss. I assert that the burglar stole my album.
Theft of intellectual property is more difficult to ascertain/define. In a previous post I gave an example of Einstein basing his theory about the existence of the photon on previous observations about the photoelectric effect by other scientists. That is clearly not theft. What are the circumstances under which appropriation of intellectual property can be viewed as stealing? I maintain that when a style of music (or a scientific discovery) is in the public domain, “stealing” such intellectual property is meaningless. Developing a style of music and building on a scientific discovery are advances in the subject, not stealing. David, you did not specify who were the major white culprits in stealing the music from the blacks. Are you maintaining, to use the example that has come up, that Benny Goodman stole “swing” from the black musicians and did not add anything to it? Because, a thief takes but adds no value, no scope, no development to what he/she steals. Benny may have been influenced/inspired by the black musicians. Alternatively, Benny’s contribution may be viewed as a manifestation of the natural evolution of jazz in the 1930s. Benny’s style was not a slavish copy of what the black musicians were doing: Benny adopted what was in the air, changed it, added to it. That is not stealing, and I find it inappropriate and offensive that it be referred to as stealing.
David, you did not respond to my question about Red Nichols. Red Nichols followed in the footsteps of Bix, “stole” from him, in your definition, because Bix did not gain as much as Red Nichols did. Do you, in your definition, view Red Nichols as stealing from Bix? Or stealing does not apply when white follows a white originator, but applies when the thief is a white man and the “originator” of the musical style is black? From your definition of “stealing” I quoted above, it seems that you impose a requirement of “social injustice.” in your view of “stealing.”
I asked, who are the major culprits among white musicians who stole from black musicians? You stated, “A more modern example involves Lester Young and his disciple, Stan Getz. Lester once complained that while he had invented a certain style of saxophone playing, "Stan Getz the money." Do you view Stan Getz as stealing from Lester Young? What is the relationship between teacher and pupil? If the pupil is white and makes more money than the black teacher, is that “stealing”? Is the white musician who learns from a black musician or is influenced by what black musicians are playing responsible for the forces governing the market? Stealing has a pejorative meaning, it is a voluntary, immoral action. Do you assign to the white musicians who profited from playing a certain style of music such evil intentions? That is, in part, why I find the use of the word “stealing” offensive and -especially- inappropriate. And who are all those white musicians who stole from the black?