The Bixography Discussion Group

A vehicle for Bixophiles and other interested individuals to ask questions, make comments and exchange information about Bix Beiderbecke and related subjects.

Any views expressed in the Bixography Forum represent solely the opinions of those expressing them and are not necessarily endorsed or opposed by Albert Haim unless he has signed the message.

I started archiving some of the threads that have been inactive for some time. The archived threads can be found at http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/archivesforum.htm

Albert Haim, Forum Owner

NORK influence in England

I have some additional information regarding the CD set"THE INFLUENCE OF BIX BEIDERBECKE”. (I enjoy the set immensely!)
I think that New Orleans Rhythm Kings should be mentioned in connection with Tiger Rag (by Original Capitol Orch.) because the clarinet part (mostly), the clarinet solo and the last cornet ensemble including the break is a perfect transcription of the first mentioned groups version of the tune. I think that it is a personal and outstanding version by NORK that doesn’t have much to do with ODJB and Bix.
I’m not completely sure about the routines back in the early twenties but I guess that somebody at Melrose Music or a similar organization quickly transcibed the music (improvisations) from recordings and put it into stock arrangements because they made more money on stocks than on records. Same thing happened with NORK’s version of “Milenberg Joys”. I have that arrangement and many contemporary bands played it including the Roppolo solo. I have not seen a stock of Tiger rag but I have recently transcibed the whole record for my own use. It could of course be possible that Original Capitol Orch learned it from the record but I doubt it. I have also seen and played a stockarrangement of Copenhagen with Bix (short) solo and the clarinet solo transcribed. Now if sombody tells me that NORK was playing transcription of somebody elses music I would be very surprised.
Regarding the Swedish trumpet player Ragge Läth on “Minns Du?” I think that I was responsible of first putting attention to him in this forum and thereby also in a way responsible for him bypassing a more prolific Swedish Bix epigon by the name of Gösta “Smyget” Redlig.
But Ragge Läth is magnificent in his number and he was in turn responsible for inspiring a famous musician. Once, in 1933 he brought his little nephew along to a concert. On stage in Stockholm was Louis Armstrong and it was then that the boy made up his mind to become a trumpet player himself. His name was Rolf Ericson and he made it all the way to Duke Ellingtons orchestra!
/Paul

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 3:39 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Connection Between Bix and the Original Capitol Orchestra

On Jul 6, 1921 Bix became a (short-lived, he lasted about 10 days) member of Doc Wrixon's band aboard the steamship "Capitol." Three of the members of the 1923-1924 "Original Capitol Orchestra" [who recorded the version of "Tiger Rag" discussed in detail by Paul in the previous posting] - Sheppard/Shepherd, Webb, and Sell/Sells- were also members of the 1921 Doc Wrixon Band. It is noteworthy that Doc Wrixon's band played in the Col Ballroom, a place that Bix often visited. Take a look at this photo.

One of the fascinating aspects found in several versions of "Tiger Rag" is that the clarinet breaks played originally by Larry Shields in the ODJB versions of the tune appear in several subsequent versions. Go to the redhotjazz archive, search under "Tiger Rag" and click on the resulting links. Just to name a few bands that have been mentioned here, the breaks are copied, almost note for note, in the versions by NORK, the Original Capitol. the Wolverines, etc. Here are the breaks I am talking about taken from the 1919 version by the ODJB in London in 1919. (the same are found in the 1917 and 1918 versions).

http://bixography.com/tigerODJBclarbreaks.ram

Albert

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 7:09 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Bix and Wynton

Wynton Marsalis's last book is titled "Moving to Higher Ground: How Jazz Can Change Your Life."

# Publisher: Random House Publishing Group

# Pub. Date: September 2008

You will see that Geoffrey C. Ward, is a collaborator. I remind you that Geoff Ward was also the collaborator of Ken Burns for the PBS jazz program.

Wynton Marsalis and his book are the focus of an NPR program, "Talk of the Nation," see and hear in

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94198246

A long excerpt of the book is provided in the page cited above. Bix is mentioned in the excerpt.

"I went through my teen years playing all kinds of music. But jazz became my real love. I grew up with it and wanted to be able to play it. This was the 1970s, when most of what we thought of as jazz was some funk tunes with horns playing the melody. But my exposure to real jazz musicians at an early age helped me realize that this music had a different function from the pop music we loved and played. The most popular music of my youth thrilled people with illusion, sentimentality, and showmanship. Music was just one of the tools we employed to create excitement. The jazzman's objective, however, was solely musical: Through his improvisation, he wanted to take people deep into his actual feelings and his world.

Ironically, I was in the same position Bix Beiderbecke found himself in when he first heard jazz music as a teenager in Davenport, Iowa, in 1917. Most of the people around him thought jazz was some kind of hokum, a gimmicky fad that—to make matters worse—was created by black people who weren't worth anything, anyway. But through intense listening, Bix could hear past all that ignorance and racism and learn to hear the differences among black groups, white hokum groups, and white groups like the New Orleans Rhythm Kings, who could really play. He could recognize artistic objectives, too, and set out to become an artist himself, even though pursuing those objectives would drive him farther and farther away from the world in which he grew up.

Like Beiderbecke, I wanted to figure out what separated jazz from what we were being told was jazz."

Interesting -isn't it?- that Marsalis mentions the NORK but not the ODJB.

Albert

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 11:42 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Why?

I have seen no reaction to the interview released by Luigi Martini to Dominick James La Rocca.Whatever you like O.D.J.B. or not,La Rocca revealed a strong racist spirit,for the fact that he had not be recognized as the Jazz Inventor.
It is very interesting hearing the other "inventor" of jazz,Jelly Roll Morton,another victim of the racist critics (was he too white? too "creole" ?)
Do not forget that the word "creole" was at the beginning referred to the culture,Spanish or French,of people living in Colonies,keeping even the language foreign to the majority of local population.
I would like to see the forumites wake up,and revert to discussion about the MUSI of Bix,paying more attention to the opinions of Bix himself:he loved O.D.J.B..Also,somebody (Albert explained why) was interested to diminish Bix,because of his Geman origin.So on non existing fundament,we were teached that Bix was a man shabby dressed,almost sneaky,while ALL THE PICTURES show a well dressed,well shaved,well to do gentleman,even if we know his perpetual drunkness.
Sorry for keeping so much of your tim,but,for me BIX IS ALIVE
Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 7:25 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Why?

by Klaus H

Just because Bix "loved" ODJB doesn't make them any better than they were. Armstrong "loved" Guy Lombardo, but that didn't make Lombardo one bit more credible, or elevate his outfit to the Armstrong level.

Rex Stewart, for one, mentions how inept ODJB were, and that they were the subject of laughter among most musicians.

LaRocca is not being denied credit for "inventing" jazz because he was racist. He is denied credit for the invention because he didn't invent it.

By that logic, Pat Boone invented Little Richards songs.

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 8:51 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

But...

I don't deny a bit of what either of you have said, but, if the ODJB had not recorded when it did, what would have happened, and who would have filled that void? Borbee's Jass Orchestra? Wilbur Sweatman or other ragtime barn-dance type bands?

It is always easy to deride those who came first, whether in fact, or in this case, aurally. However, I think it speaks volumes to Bix's or Armstrong's taste that they found merit in what might not have been so "with it." Surely, genius (not to bring up a past thread) can appreciate more than just the merely competent or gifted.

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 10:50 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Armstrong and ODJB

"The first jazz record I heard was Tiger Rag of the ODJB.
Was it not for the ODJB records (one million copies in their first year),the ragtime musicians jobless after Storyville had been closed,would not have found an answer to their problem:"and now what we do? Reply:Let us play the music of success,jazz" Read the story of the ODJB and hear their records on an appropriate Victrola large machine and you will understand.(This is not really for you,but for the other forumite that quote Rex Stewart..Thanks for help.Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 11:35 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Rex Stewart's remarks

by Nick Dellow

Please could you provide the specific source for Rex Stewart's remarks that the ODJB were "inept" and "were the subject of laughter among most musicians". I'd be interested to know. Many thanks.

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 11:48 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Rex Stewart's remarks

by Klaus H

"I remember the fellows around the Clef Club laughing about the efforts of white musicians of that era. The Original Dixieland Band had soaked everything that they knew musically from the Negroes in New Orleans, and still it was amusing to us when they soloed in comparison with their colored counterparts."

Rex Stewart, "Boy Meets Horn", pg. 49

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 10:37 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Laughing

Well,this is a proof of the scarce culture and racism of Rex Stewart.If you like laughing, hear the records of W.C. Handy and his band (all African American) or any of the Negro pioneers, and hear the records of the ODJB; of course they were not the Clarence Williams Blue Five with Armstrong and Bechet,BUT THEY WERE EIGHT YEARS IN ADVANCE. Then consider the records of Phil Napoleon, Mole, Lytell, Signorelli, Durante,etc. You have redhotjazz.com, it is also cheaper. BUT DO NOT DESPISE YOUR RACE.
Thanks,Veniero Molari

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 5, 2008 6:12 AM

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 3:48 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

True...

Within the time frame of the ODJB's recordings, 1917-23, I can't think of any black band, except MAYBE Reese in 1919 who were anywhere near their equal. King Oliver would of course come at the end of that time frame, and is a separate issue entirely. So, if there were these great black bands out there, they are undocumented, which for our purposes makes it all a moot point as though they had never existed. We have only hearsay: the Emmett Hardy syndrome.

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 8:32 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Laughing

by Klaus H

You seem rather confused - almost as confused as your response.

I don't despise any race; my own or others. Rex Stewart did not despise his race; although the country he grew up and lived in despised his, and expressed it by making laws to maintain a subclass of Americans.

In fact, it was the institutional despising of the race that made it so that there is no recorded legacy. You think that the reputation of Buddy Bolden is untrue? For that matter, the recorded legacy of Bix is scarcely enough to justify the high praise of EVERYONE who heard him in real life.

Who, by the way, did the ODJB listen to and imitate? John Philip Sousa?

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 9:04 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Laughing

Well ODJB did not copy anybody,AS THEY INVENTED the JASS music.
I am not confused,and I consider that if Stewart despised ODJB it was because he was a racist.The fact that a non WASP individual suffered by the limits imposed by WASP people does not justify a resentment against white artists,in a conditn in between a WASP and a NEGRO.La Rocca Italian,Sbarbaro Italian,Signorelli Italian,Ragas French,all stupid Catholic for the WASP.,and discovered nonetheless by a Jew singer (Al Jolson,if you did not know)Please check the interview released by La Rocca:he quotes with precision the recordings of the colored bands that played ragtime,giving even the Label and number of every record.But,as I already told,hear the records of W.C.Handy...
You can disagree,but about confusion...Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 11:09 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Laughing

by Klaus H

"Well ODJB did not copy anybody,AS THEY INVENTED the JASS music."

You are alone in believing this.

"Nick LaRocca did much to help popularize jazz during the band's existence although he hurt his own cause decades later by claiming to have been one of jazz's main originators."

"The first jazz group to ever record, Original Dixieland Jazz Band made history in 1917. They were not the first group to ever play jazz (Buddy Bolden had preceded them by 22 years!), nor was this White quintet necessarily the best band of the time, but during 1917-1923 (particularly in their earliest years) they did a great deal to popularize jazz. The musicians learned about jazz from their fellow New Orleans players (including King Oliver) but happened to get their big break first."

"By 1923 when many of the first Black jazz giants finally were recorded, ODJB was thought of as a historical band and due to internal dissension they soon broke up."

"Although the cornetist's arrogant claims that ODJB had invented jazz are exaggerated and tinged with racism, Original Dixieland Jazz Band did make a strong contribution to early jazz"

Tinged with racism - you understand that phrase?

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 11:49 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Freddie Keppard

If I'm not mistaken, a band with which Freddie Keppard played was offered the opportunity to record in 1916. Correct me further, but was not one of the reasons that they did not that Keppard feared that others would copy him? Where is the racism in that?

This whole discussion would be a moot point if that organization had recorded first, and not the ODJB. As it is, that shadow that the ODJB cast is more tangible to us than whoever came before because all else is hearsay.

I don't believe that the ODJB or La Rocca invented Jazz, but that was a nice point about the non-WASP musicians. For a group of socially marginalized fellows, they did pretty well when many of their countrymen were only just gaining social acceptance.

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 1:17 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Freddie Keppard

by Klaus H

You are correct in regard to Keppard.

I didn't follow the non-WASP argument closely because it was buried among that other racist nastiness.

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 1:26 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thank You

I just wanted to make that point about Keppard. I'm certainly not saying Bolden or any of the other pre-recording era musicians were not fabulous, it's just that we don't know what they sounded like, and yes, it is even more unfortunate because of skin color.

I rather wish that Keppard had not been so guarded about himself. Perhaps it would all be different.

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 3:20 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

racism

The fact that you do not follow the WASP argument demonstrate that unfortunately you do not see who is racist:evidently you do not know the meaning
of the WASP acronym : WHITE ANGLO-SAXON PROTESTANT.In other words whoever was not a WASP was not a respectable AMERICAN.While the integration of other groups succeeded earlier,for African Americans this went later.So we can find somebody belonging to this group that hosts rancorous sentiments against all the white people.
For instance many African Americans hate the banjo as it was featured in the minstrels shows,were Negroes were ridiculized.You quote Buddy Bolden,but who knows how he played?We know only that he was the LOUDEST horn blower,and a famous character,but Jelly Roll (born 1890)remambers Buddy Bolden for what he SAID...Please consider that the white invention of jazz is not diminishing the value of Armstrong(who was not laughing when he said that the first jazz record that he heard was ODJB's Tiger Rag),Dodds,Ladnier,Bechet:they are great independently of their race:the art comes out of their personal mind,not from their belonging to a race.So I am not a racist,,but some African American yes.(you quote Stewart)Some person has not yet understood that Hugues Panassiev,Russian refugee had at his disposal only a bunch of records to issue his racist anti-Whites ideas of jazz.Read a little,age a little bit,and your attitude against the white musicians will be more objective.Sorry for having been so long,but I taught important fight for the truth against prejudices.Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 4:08 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

O.D.J.B and W.A.S.P.

I don't know about Shields, Edwards and Ragas, but LaRocca and Sbarbaro were definitely Italian, on the swarthy side, and obviously Catholic. The other three were doubtless of scrurrilous foreign extraction. At the height of their fame, these five still would have entered a W.A.S.P. country club through the back entrance, same as Colored musicians.

-Brad Kay

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 6:23 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: racism

by Klaus H

I do not know the meaning of the WASP acronym? I "unfortunately do not see who is racist"? I think it is very obvious who is racist.

You should not presume, perhaps, that everyone is as dim-witted as the people you apparently associate with. By the way, "ghetto" is a word of Italian origin, isn't it?

In any case, none of this changes the fact that Nick LaRocca did NOT invent jazz, which was the point of this discussion, and no amount of irrelevance can make it so.

Have a nice day!

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 7:28 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: racism (Warning: may take a long time to download)

by Nick Dellow

I certainly don't believe that the ODJB invented jazz, much though I enjoy their records! The ODJB's music, to my mind, distilled various musical elements - the Blues, ragtime, hints of Italian and Spanish street music, the Quadrilles known to the local Creoles as kwadrils, etc. etc. - into something that was quite possibly "new" without necessarily being totally original, if that isn't an oxymoron! These various elements were welded to the AABA popular song format (one might add the Jewish song tradition here!), and almost always played with gusto and at a cracking pace (though their recordings are invariably played too fast - most of the ODJB Victors should be played at around 74 rpm). Leaving aside any claims to having "invented" jazz, the ODJB were certainly important purveyors of the new music, and certainly helped to establish the distinctive "Dixieland" line-up, with the violin (so popular as a lead instrument in both white and black bands) ousted as a lead instrument, replaced by the cornet-clarinet-trombone front line.

One thing is for sure - we know what the ODJB sounded like, and they sounded like nothing that had been recorded before them, by black or white groups. Conversely, we will never know what Buddy Bolden sounded like until that cylinder turns up! The scant recollections of those who heard Bolden would indicate that the music he played was not "jazz" as we perceive early jazz to be (and what exactly IS jazz anyway?!). It doubtless had strong elements of the Blues tradition, and it must surely have used syncopation, but anything beyond that becomes supposition. It should be noted that in their repertoire, Bolden and his men almost certainly often played other forms of popular music that were far removed from the world of jazz. And as far as we know, the word "jazz" or "jass" or "jas" had yet to be coined to describe a new form of popular music. If the word existed in the vernacular sense in Bolden's time, its use meant something quite different! Incidentally, does anyone know of an earlier example of the use of the word "Blues" (to describe a popular music style) than the publication in 1912 of Hart Wand's "Dallas Blues"?

I don't wish to become embroiled in arguments over race issues or references to a man's skin colour to determine his validity as a jazz musician, but the attached articles clearly demonstrate that this vexed black and white question has been argued over for years. "To Wit Too White" and "Two Whites don't make a Black" appeared in a small magazine published just after WWII and called, appropriately enough, "Black and White", and "The Bolden Legend" (by Brian Rust) appeared in the September/October 1984 edition of "Sounds Vintage". Incidentally, both magazines were published in the UK. They may help to illuminate the matter, or possibly (probably) cause the chasm to widen appreciably!

Nick

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 6, 2008 10:31 AM

Posted on Sep 6, 2008, 10:30 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: racism (Warning: may take a long time to download)

by Klaus H

Thank you

Posted on Sep 6, 2008, 11:14 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Myths and Political Correctness

When documented evidence is absent and all we have about an event or an individual is a set of recollections from witnesses, we are on fertile grounds for the fabrication of myths. This is what happened in the case of Buddy Bolden. No one knows how he really sounded, what style of music he actually played.

Nevertheless, the politically correct crowd has enshrined Bolden as a jazz musician, perhaps the first jazz musician. From

http://www.pbs.org/jazz/biography/artist_id_bolden_buddy.htm

”NPR's Morning Edition: Buddy Bolden
Tom Vitale reports on the legend of coronetist [sic] Buddy Bolden, one of the earliest jazz musicians.”

Without any documentation, calling Buddy Bolden a jazz musician is sheer speculation.

Brian Rust does a good job of dispelling the myth.

A good place to listen to recordings from 1917 is

http://www.redhotjazz.com/jazz1917.html

With a few exceptions, notably the ODJB, not much jazz.

I vigorously disagree with the comments of Alan Woodcock. In particular, I object violently to his use of the word “us” in the sentence, “I suggest that negro jazz gives us emotional satisfaction not to be found in white jazz or in classical music and therefore has a strong raison d’etre as a distinct art form that white jazz cannot share.

Speak for yourself, Woodcock! Who is “us”? I absolutely am not one of “us.” The question of “emotional satisfaction” is a profoundly individual experience. If Woodcock experiences an “emotional satisfaction” when listening to negro jazz which he does not experience when listening to white jazz or classical music, that’s fine with me. But, it is irrational and outrageous for him to assume that I am one of “us” and feels the same as he does.

Another point I object to is Woodcock’s assertion about “complexity and variety” being found in recordings by negro musicians, but rarely in those by white musicians. Again, this guy makes these sweeping statements as if they were objective and based on factual evidence. They are his subjective analyses, and wrong to boot. What about the complexity and variety in several of Bix’s recordings, just to cite one white musician close to my heart? This guy was politically correct before the phrase became fashionable.

Albert

PS Here is what seems to me to be an objective account of what is known accurately about Buddy Bolden.

From Oxford Music Online.

”Bolden, Buddy [Charles Joseph]
(b New Orleans, 6 Sept 1877; d Jackson, LA, 4 Nov 1931). American blues and ragtime cornettist and bandleader. The first of the New Orleans cornet ‘kings’, he was highly regarded by contemporary fellow black musicians in the city, who in their reminiscences embroidered his life with a great many legends and spurious anecdotes. He came relatively late to music, adopting the cornet around 1894 after completing his schooling, and emerged not from the brass marching-band tradition but rather from the string bands which played for private dances and parties. By 1895, while working as a plasterer, he was leading his own semi-professional group, and by 1901, when his name first appears in city directories as a professional musician, his group had stabilized into a six-piece unit with cornet, clarinet, valve trombone, guitar, double bass and drums. Bolden’s rise to fame coincided with the emergence of a black pleasure district – Black Storyville – at South Rampart and Perdido streets, where he played in the dives and tonks (but not the brothels). His fame was at its peak in 1905, when his group performed regularly in the city’s dance halls and parks, and undertook excursions to outlying towns. In the following year Bolden showed distinct signs of violent mental derangement, and his band rapidly disintegrated. In 1907, in a state of hopeless indigence and alcoholism, he was admitted to a mental institution in Jackson, where he spent his remaining years. His life formed the basis of M. Ondaatje’s novel Coming through Slaughter (New York, 1976).
Contemporary musicians universally praised the power of Bolden’s tone, his rhythmic drive and the emotional content of his slow blues playing. He reportedly found ingenious ways of ornamenting existing melodies, but recent research has cast doubt on his reputation as the first jazz musician.
Bibliography
M. Berger: ‘Early New Orleans Jazz Bands’, Jazz Record (1944), April, 6
D. Barker: ‘A Memory of King Bolden’, Evergreen Review, no.37 (1965), 66–74
D.M. Marquis: Finding Buddy Bolden, First Man of Jazz: the Journal of a Search (Coshen, IN, 1978)
D.M. Marquis: In Search of Buddy Bolden, First Man of Jazz (Baton Rouge, LA, 1978)
J.L. Collier: Jazz: the American Theme Song (New York, 1993), 198–9
J. Bradford Robinson”

Forum Owner

Posted on Sep 6, 2008, 3:09 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

racism.

Ghetto is an Italian name, but time passed since, with the ominous exception of Mussolini, who suffered plagiarysm from Hitler,leader of Workers Socialist Party of German Nation (Red flag). Italians never traded in slaves, like Britons, Dutchs or Americans. As for myself,I enjoy the friendship of many Jews, some from the time of the nazist occupation, and I spent wonderful moments with Sidney Bechet, Alvin Alcorn, Wellman Braud, Edmund Hall, Trummy Young, Roy Eldridge, Benny Carter, and I corresponded with Johnny St.Cyr,my banjo idol.

This is not the point: The first record by the ODJB was recorded by Columbia, BUT NOT ISSUED. After less than two monts Victor recorded ODJB and the record had a terrific success. Realising their mistake, Columbia issued their record and sent to New Orleans their art director,to find an appropriate competitor in the new music. After ONE MONTH on the expenses, he sent a famous telegram: "Sorry to inform that no other jazz band exist in New Orleans."

And Louis Armstrong declared that the first jazz record he heard was Tiger Rag of the ODJB. The opinion of Stewart is irrelevant, as it is the statement of who invented JAZZ: important is what happened since; a wonderful music.

I started to receive threatening e-mails from various cowards, the usual ones banned from the Forum,who believe in their right to conceal their identity. Alas, here in Italy a Socialist mob had a law passed suppressing the asylums and the lunatics.
Veniero Molari,Oec Dr.

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 6, 2008 2:17 PM

Posted on Sep 6, 2008, 2:04 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Bix and Louis

The discussion about Bix in Rifftides

http://www.artsjournal.com/rifftides/

has now become a discussion of Bix and Louis. See

http://www.jazzwax.com/2008/09/bix-v-pops-and.html

Albert

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 10:58 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

So Many Responses For Such a Goofy Article

by carl

"Overrated", such a strong opening statement and then he follows it up with Bix wasn't quite the shiny celebrity he had believed in his youth and that's his reason. Good one buddy. But look at all the cats jumping out of the woodwork in praise of Bix. Sergio his best cutting comment yet, Uncle Hans with his usual pointed clarity, even Uncle Albert getting into the act. Why couldn't they have been done here at the home of the Bix? Albert should flip his wig and tell Rifftides no Bix talk unless he says so, just like the mobster days, and swipe all the comments and stick em here. Don't bring that article though. What a joke.

It took me a good week to get back Realplayer after the last Firefox upgrade and I see all the solos Albert put up have petered out and flipped over cept for that Gott thing. I thought that was old Hans responding to it and I was thinking I wish him and Uncle Albert could kiss and make up and start doing some Bix talk. There ain't that many of you Bix scholars out there and it ain't righteous to just read and don't say nothing. All you'll have left is me and old Uncle Hal and that ain't pretty. Even Albert will stay away then. I see both sides about the Gott comparison to Waiting, the figures are kinda similar, kinda nursery rhyme like, but there's nobody inside the Gott. I gather Bix is a question mark on Waiting. It's a different kind of wounded to Cradle and Pleasure and South. It's more hurried and tense, and the big tear just isn't but still it ends reaching out in friendship, but where's that inner peace despite failing powers that Cradle and Pleasure come out of. Bix is even thinking about sex when he's supposed to be doing his Deep Down South solo. Maybe that was one of those Duke double entendres.

I wish I had of kept my big mouth shut on that Armand Hug transcription. Of all that group that Albert had put up, I thought that Benny Goodman the most fascinating and would have loved to hear it by a cornet. I guess Andy or nobody wished to risk the impending insult, though why would anybody listen to me I can't imagine, but that Hug still sounds fourtyish to me and I had the thought I can't lose, that the Bix rip was intended as a climax to the solo. Monty Python 'nudge, nudge, there's your Bix there, see, see".

I remember way back Albert said he likes to hear his Bix in context with the rest of the record and I'm very pleased he'll now post an isolated solo for a laboratory inspection. I'd certainly welcome a 'the solo of the month' series. I was playing Sorry from the Rifftides link over and over and I never felt like no Louis, but I got to wishing to hear Joe Smith on Stampede, not that the Bix reminded me directly or nothing, but if I can tear myself away from Jack Bruce here, that's what I'll do.

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 1:27 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: So Many Responses For Such a Goofy Article

by jazzlover

Only critics talk about one musician versus another. Musicians never do. Every musician has something to say, in his own way. Music is not a competition.

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 4:30 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I asked you before, and I ask you again.

Send an email to ahaim@bixography.com
What is the matter? No manners, no courage?

Albert Haim
Forum Owner

PS What about the famous and rather common "Battles of the Bands"? And the "Cutting Contests"? Weren't these competitions? And not for the critics, but for the fans.

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 5:15 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Harry James and Bix

According to the imdb website for the film "Young Man With A Horn,", Harry James played trumpet while Kirk Douglas went through the motions. See information about the soundtrack in

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043153/soundtrack
Bix is mentioned in Peter J. Levinson's biography of Harry James, "Trumpet Blues - The Life of Harry James," Oxford University Press, 1999. Here are the relevant parts.

Harry James as a child.

Comments about Harry James by Lalo Schiffrin and Harry James in "Young Man With A Horn."

It would have been interesting to hear Harry James in 1929 playing with the Vic Insirilo's group. It seems reasonable that Harry James may have sounded like Bix in 1929: many trumpet players were under the spell of Bix at that time. Lalo Schiffrin's comments, coming from a first-class musician who has a good understanding of Bix's music, are fascinating. Is anyone familiar with "The Truth," composed by Harry James and Matty Malneck for the "Double Dixies Album"?

Albert

This message has been edited by ahaim on Aug 31, 2008 5:35 AM

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 2:31 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Harry James and Bix

by hal smith

nail doris? harry must have had real class

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 10:54 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Harry James and Bix

by Bob Delovarre

This is interesting - did James ever directly cite Bix as an influence?

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 10:02 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Harry James and Bix

Harry did a lovely recording of "In a Mist" for Columbia.

Dave

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 11:31 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Matlock or Malneck?

If they are the same person, please forgive my ignorance.
Sergio

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 11:19 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Not the same person.

Matty Malneck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matty_Malneck

Matty Matlock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matty_Matlock

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 11:32 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I asked because...

...you said "Is anyone familiar with "The Truth," composed by Harry James and Matty Malneck for the "Double Dixies Album"? The article reads "Matlock".
Sergio

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:31 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The article is correct.

I wrote the wrong name.

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:52 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

"Young Horne With A Man" is the title of a supposedluy....

.... humorous program (featuring " "Bix Spiderthrust") broadcast on BBC 2 on May 7, 1967. It was part of the series "Round the Horne" (named after the star of the show Kenneth Horne) which ran from 1965 to 1968.

Has anyone seen this? Supposedly there was music in the program.

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 12:11 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Bix Spiderthrust

by Nick Dellow

"Round The Horne" was a Radio Show, not a TV Show. It was initially broadcast on the BBC Light Programme, which was a BBC radio station that broadcast light entertainment and music from 1945 until 1967. When BBC radio was subsequently rearranged in September 1967, Round The Horne was broadcast on the newly established BBC Radio 2.

I have heard "Young Horne With A Man" (a few years ago now), and while I still often find "Round The Horne" sketches funny, this particular one isn't a classic as such. However, Kenneth Williams, who played the part of Bix Spiderthrust, did find it very funny, unusual for someone who more often than not derided his own comedy efforts (often blaming poor scripts though!). In his diary entry for Saturday 4th November 1967, he writes: I listened to 'R.T.H.' on the radio. It was really very funny - me doing a send-up of a Southern American jazz trumpeter - it was a v. good voice I used: the whole programme was full of wit and invention and infectious humour."

"The Kenneth Williams Diaries", first published in 1993 and edited by Russell Davies (who occasionally posts to this forum!)

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 2:00 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Just to confirm...

by Russell Davies

What Nick says is true --- I did edit the Diaries (and Letters) of the British comedy actor Kenneth Williams. The "Round The Horne" title of the radio series came from the its central figure, Kenneth Horne, an apparently serious straight-man/narrator (and a successful businessman in "real" life), around whom the various comedians on the show did their merry dance. But I suspect that Horne was the Bix fan in the line-up. He was not a trumpet/cornet player, but did have private ambitions to play saxophone, as he revealed (if my memory serves) on the British edition of "This Is Your Life" devoted to him. He was quite a famous figure in the UK, but I don't think anybody had known before that moment that he had musical ambitions. As I recall from the broadcast, his ability on sax was more or less equivalent to Bill Clinton's.
R.D.

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 7:59 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Kenneth Horne, saxophonist!

by Nick Dellow

Kenneth Horne learnt to play the sax while at Cambridge University in the 1920s, and in about 1931, while working for Triplex Safety Glass, he joined a West Midlands based semi-pro band named “Bo Aylward and His Rascals”.

In “Solo For Horne”, the biography of Kenneth Horne, author Norman Hackforth (who was Noel Coward’s pianist throughout the Second World War) states: “Later, resplendent in faultless tails, Ken fronted the band with his saxophone, trying (as he said) ‘to pretend I was an expert, without destroying the illusion by actually blowing!’….He always had a passionate attachment to his saxophone, which continued all through his life. He kept it wrapped in a pair of long red-flannel drawers, with which he lovingly polished it.”

Incidentally, Fred Elizalde’s name crops up in this biography. Hackforth recalled Elizalde’s prodigious skills: “Elizalde was one of the most sensationally brilliant jazz pianists I ever heard. I had the good fortune to meet him in 1927, and to stand at the side of the keyboard while he played. When I went home in the early hours of the morning I almost decided to give up piano playing for evermore”.

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 1:52 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

It can be heard here....

I have uploaded "Young Horne With a Man" to box.net from a Round The Horne CD which is available along with other older British radio programs from the otrcat website:

http://www.box.net/shared/d5gzfzr8yf

http://www.otrcat.com/british-c-103.html

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 1:53 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thanks very much, Terry, .....

.... for your generosity.

Haven't heard from you for some time. I appreciate your contributions throughout the years.

Albert

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 4:42 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Walloping Funny

Not at all what I expected (and not at all pc!) but despite myself I fell off my chair laughing so hard my husband came upstairs to see what was going on. I couldn't begin to explain. Even with a dreadful high pitched faux-Southern American accented Bix character (a Brit parodying an American accent always puts me in hilarity fits anyway), it was a howl.

Laura D.

Over the weekend I stumbled across the Victrola my in-laws keep in their basement recreation room and finally dug out the popular records, when before I only looked at the opera discs. Imagine my astonishment; Rick's Grandpa Dominic had some real 1920's items! Old Pathes, Velvet Tone, Perfect, Brunswick, Banner - My Ohio Home with Deep River Orchestra,Somebody Lied about me with Sam Lanin Orch.; Ted Weems' Me and the Man on the Moon; My Troubles Are Over; It Made You Happy When you Made Me Cry by Bar Harbor Orch;Original Dixieland Jazz Band - Margie, Palesteena, St. Louis Blues, Jazz Me Blues, Lazy Daddy, Fidgety Feet - fun to compare ODJB to Wolverine versions. Two versions of Look What You've Done to Me: Black Diamonds on Banner and Leo Reisman on Victor. And Reisman's Doing the Boom Boom - surprisingly catchy for all its dopeyness. Aggrevatin' Papa and Aunt Hagar's Blues by the Virginians; Nathan Glantz' When My Sugar Walks Down the Street on Puritan Records; and Gray Gull label's Figaro and South Sea Isles. Columbia records' Waldoff Astoria Singing Orchestra's version of The Vamp
Okeh red label Syncopators Black Bottom and I'm Walking Around in Circles. And pre-Bix Paul Whiteman: the 1920 version of Japanese Sandman, and Whispering. Okay, most of it's not hot jazz and some of it's downright gooey pop, but it's still fun. Got it all put on cd. Holler if anyone wants a copy - who do I still owe a cd to out there?

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 7:41 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

A CD won't be necessary...

by Fredrik Tersmeden

... but I would love to have the discographical information (catalogue number, matrix number, full titles, composer and artist credits) that can be found on the Grey Gull record you mentioned, Laura.

Fredrik

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 6:16 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Here's Grey Gull!

Okay, here's the Grey Gull info -

A deep crimson-red label. South Sea Isles (Fox Trot, Gershwin) Lenzberg's Riverside Orchestra, 1087 (a) 827

Figaro (Fox Trot, Leo David) Yerkes Musical Bell Hops, 1087 (b) 523

Hope this helps! :D

- Laura

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 6:15 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thank you very much, Laura!

by Fredrik Tersmeden

This goes straight into my Grey Gull database.

Fredrik

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 7:30 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Top Twelve

by carl

When Leon Feathers's Top Twelve greatest trumpeters was a thread, I was thinking Harry should belong in that group much more than Art Farmer or Clark Terry, but Feather wasn't specifying what he meant by greatest, playing ability, influence, popularity, but still Harry excelled in all counts, and achieved what Louis or at least his management were aiming for, an immensely popular trumpet virtuoso fronting and stamping his own band.

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 1:10 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Top Twelve

by hal smith

There's a 1938 Benny Goodman, Victor big band version of 'SWEET SUE' the whole arrangment reminds me of Bix including James' muted solo

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 8:07 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Another Underrated Musician

This is from Dick Dupage in Record Research, Nov/Dec 1959 (thanks to Nick),

Don Rayno in his Whiteman book gives the following biographical capsule.

”Robert Jay “Bob” Mayhew (b. Aug 30, 1910, Milford IL; d. Nov 30, 1965, Los Angeles CA), trumpet player. Joined the Whiteman Orchestr with his brothers Jack and Nye in June 1927, leaving in Feb 1928 for the Hal Kemp Orchestra, which included brothers Jack and Gus, the latter a trombonist. Played a short stint with Freddy Rich, also in 1928. Later he sold real estate in the Los Angeles area.” Note: Bob Mayhew was the replacement for Red Nichols in Whiteman’s band.

We had a couple of threads about Bob Mayhew, see

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1140466290
http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1218208332

Sudhalter and Evans mention Bob Mayhew extensively in p. 227-228. They talk about how thrilled Bob was when Bix joined Whiteman. Bob was 16 years old when he joined Whiteman and 17 when he met Bix. Bob also is reported to talk about Bix’s craving for peanuts. Sudhalter mentions Bobby Mayhew in “Lost Chords” (p. 480) in connection with Jack Purvis’s first solo flight out in Roosevelt Field, Long Island. Jack and Bob were both with Hal Kemp’s band at the time.

The Bix-like trumpet playing by Mayhew was noted by Nick in “The Influence of Bix Beiderbecke,” Vol 1, where he includes “The Eyes of Texas” by the Carolina Club Orchestra (this recording was mentioned here http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1077713406 and played in WBIX # 40 at 36 minutes).

Nick also includes “Broadway Rose” in Vol 1 of “The Influence of Bix” CD. There is some question as to the identity of the soloist: Bob Mayhew or Mickey Bloom. This was also discussed here, see http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1202484818
Malcolm and I favor Bob Mayhew.

Another controversial recording – is it Mayhew or Bloom?- is included in Vol 5 of “Bix Restored.” This is Hal Kemp’s “Before the Rain.” Sudhalter favors Bloom. Do you agree?

Going back to “Walking With Susie,” OK 41237 Dick Dupage states that Bob Mayhew plays the solo . This was discussed in

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1218208332

I thought it was Mickey Bloom. I still do. Does anyone have the earlier version of “Walking With Susie” by Hal Kemp, BR 4327?

I looked up “Bob Mayhew” in Lord’s discography.

His first recording was with Whiteman on Aug 11, 1927 (Whiteman Stomp). His last was on Jan 24, 1928 (My Heart Stood Still).

Bob Mayhew recorded with Hal Kemp between Feb 16, 1928 and Oct 2, 1929.

His last recording was with Louis Armstrong, on Feb 4 1936. Bunny Berigan was also in the band.

There is also a recording with Hoagy Carmichael, in Richmond on Oct 28, 1927, “One Night in Havana” (the first time Hoagy recorded this tune). Andy Secrest, and Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey are also listed as present. This is one day after Bix and Tram joined the Whiteman band in Indianapolis. Whiteman had an engagement in the Indiana Theatre in Indianapolis Oct 22-29. Rayno reports that on Oct 27, 1927, Whiteman met Hoagy Carmichael. In the middle of the night Whiteman, Hoagy and Jimmy Dorsey went to Challis’s room so Hoagy could play “Washboard Blues” for Whiteman using Challis’s portable pump organ. So it is possible that Hoagy got some of Whiteman musicians (also Bob’s brother, Nye Mayhew) to record with him. Listen to this recording, a very modernistic arrangement.
http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/hoagy/onenight.ram>
I hear Jimmy and Tommy doing solos on alto and trombone, respectively.

Rust gives several recordings of Bob Mayhew with Fred Rich in May and June 1928. But Mayhew was with Kemp at this time. What is going on?

Finally, I was shocked to learn that Bob Mayhew joined Whiteman when he was 16, assuming Rayno’s birth date is correct. The SSDI lists

ROBERT MAYHEW 30 Aug 1910 Nov 1965(not specified) (none specified )028-03-2185

In perfect agreement with what Don Rayno writes. I’ll check the US census next time I go to the local library.

Albert

This message has been edited by ahaim on Aug 30, 2008 6:36 AM

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 6:33 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

That name seemed familiar

by Constantine

Athough this little known orchestra was in fact the campus band of the University of North Carolina, it was all but amateurish. It was formed in 1922 by Hal Kemp when studying there (without achieving a degree though), recorded for the famous Okeh label and toured in Europe. This brilliant version of a tune from the 1929 film "Syncopation" was recorded on July 1st, 1929. Besides Hal Kemp (leader, clarinet and tenor saxophone), personnel included: Mickey Bloom, Red Honeycutt, Jack Purvas, Dick Mackie, Bob Mayhew, Mickey Earl Geiger and Monk Buie, trumpet; Jimmy Brooks, drums; Saxi Dowell and Jack Mayhew, clarinet and tenor saxophone; Skinny Ennis, drums; Phil Fent, guitar; Joe Gillespie, clarinet and alto saxophone; Ollie Humphries, Harry Pond, William Waugh and Pinkie Kintzle, banjo; Gus Mayhew and Buck Weaver, trombone; Jim Mullen, bass brass; Slatz Randall and John Scott Trotter, piano; Jack Shirra, bass; Bruno Sulser, violin; Ben Williams, clarinet and saxophones, as well as William Wolfe, bass brass. The vocalists remained uncredited.

Carolina Club Orchestra - Do Something
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzMXvngW7A

Brother Jack was with Whiteman for a while too, right?

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 8:53 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Please send an email message to ....

.... ahaim@bixography.com and tell me how you became interested in Bix's music.

Albert Haim
Forum Owner

PS There were two films titled "Syncopation." One in 1929 and one in 1941, where Jackie Cooper plays a trumpeter. Many of the big bands from the 1930s and 40s make appearances - Benny Goodman, Harry James, Gene Krupa, etc.

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 9:16 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

"Do Something " Kemp - re vocal refrain

by John Leifert

Yes indeed, Constantine - thanks for sending this! I love the Kemp band from this period, and have never heard that one. I'm a proud owner of "Walking With Susie" on 78, as well as other Okeh's including "Some Sweet Day", "He's So Unusual", and "The Eyes of Texas".

The vocal trio (or is it a quartet?) on "Do Something" does include Skinny Ennis in there - and he sings the solo bridge part - but as to who the others are, probably conjecture (although Kemp probably used the same 3 or 4 band members in the vocal trio or quartet parts at that time).

Thanks again!
John Leifert

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 12:57 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Connection to Bix

"Do Something" was written by Bud Green and Sam Stept, born in Austria and Russia, respectively. They also cowrote "That's My Weakness Now," one of my favorite Bix-Whiteman recordings.

Here are some images of record labels of Whiteman's recording of "That's My Weakness Now."

Columbia (USA)

Columbia (British)

Columbia (French)

Regal (from Spain)

Note that the tune is a "fox-trot" in all the Columbias, but a "Charleston with melody" in the Regal. I guess, there must be Charlestons without melody?

Listen to this great arrangement by Tom Satterfield.

http://bixography.com/thatsmyweakness.ram

Albert

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 4:45 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The Armstrong-Mayhew Session

Here is disco information from the Satchography.

Louis Armstrong And His Orchestra
February 4, 1936, New York, NY

I'm Putting All My Eggs In One Basket (Berlin, Irving) [master 60438-A] -- Decca 698
Yes! Yes! My! My! (She's Mine) (Cahn, Sammy; Chaplin, Saul) [master 60439-A] -- Decca 698

Armstrong, Louis (Trumpet, Vocal)
Berigan, Bunny (Trumpet)
Mayhew, Bob (Trumpet)
Philburn, Al (Trombone)
Waltzer, Phil (Alto Saxophone)
Ricci, Paul (Tenor Saxophone)
Trucker, Sid (Clarinet, Baritone Saxophone)
McGrath, Fulton (Piano)
Barbour, Dave (Guitar)
Peterson, Pete (Bass)
King, Stan (Drums)

Here are links to streaming files from the Red Hot Jazz Archive

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/Louie/lao/imputtingall.ram

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/Louie/lao/YesYesMyMy.ram

What the heck was Bob Mayhew doing there after so many years of inactivity (at least recording-wise)? And not Louis at his best. I much prefer Fred Astaire's version of "I'm Putting All My Eggs In One Basket." Take a look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hTLZz2hUOA
That is really Fred himself playing piano. From "Fred Astaire, Steps in Time," " Astaire p.65: "We struck up a friendship [with George Gershwin] at once. He was amused by my piano playing and often made me play for him." Take a look at this photo from http://www.wodehouse.org/PlumLines/damsel.html

Fred Astaire at the piano with George and Ira Gershwin.

There is nothing that Fred could not do!! What a genius.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCrDAmi1OJo&NR=1
Delightful, Superb, Imaginative, Funny!! I kept smiling throughout the singing and dancing! One of their all-time best to my taste. And a terrific tune by the great Irving Berlin.

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 6:20 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thank you

by Klaus H

This is delightful.

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 9:14 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Another Bixian Mayhew solo

Bob Mayhew also plays a lovely Bixian solo on Kemp's recording of "My Lucky Star" (Brunswick 4212). Kemp is not included at RedHotJazz.com, but I can send you (Albert) an audio file of this record if anyone is interested.

Mike Laprarie

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:36 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thanks for the kind offer.

I accept gratefully. Please send file to alberthaim@yahoo.com

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:59 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Bob Mayhew in the US Census.

I found two entries for the Robert Mayhew of interest here.

1930 Census
Robert Mayhew lives on University Place in Manhattan with his brother Nye. Both are musicans, born in Illinois, parents born in Illinois. The census was taken on April 25, 1930. The ages of Nye and Robert are given as 26 and 19, respectively.

1920 US Census
Samuel Mayhew, age 49, farmer, lives in Milford IL with his wife Mary, age 46, and children
Nye age 16
Illegible age 14
John age 11
Robert age 9

So Bob Mayhew was 16 !!!! when he was hired by Paul Whiteman.

Albert

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 10:11 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

An mp3 file of "My LuckyStar" ....

.... recorded by Hal Kemp and His Orchestra on Jan 21, 1929 was kindly sent by Mike. Lovely tune and arrangement.

Copy and paste bixography.com/MyLuckyStarHalKemp.mp3

Connection to Bix: the violinist in the recording is Bromo Sulser. Merton "Bromo" Selser and His Collegians played in Davenport's Garden Theater at the end of 1924. Bix got in touch with Bromo and Cecil Huntzinger, pianist and co-leader of the band and informd them that he had enrolled in the University of Iowas for the 1925 Spring semester, and could he play with them? Indeed, he did several times in Jan and Feb 1925 at the Blue Goose Ballroom of the Burkley Hotel in Iowa City.

Albert

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 10:30 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The Illegiuble Name

It is "Wendell." Wendell "Gus" Mayhew was another of the four musical Mayhhew brothers. He played trombone.

Albert

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 10:33 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Some Excellent Contributions from Nick

Nick kindly sends three very interesting items and provides the following information.

”I recently came across a book by Stanley R Nelson called "All About Jazz", which was published in London in 1934. In it, the author describes how he attended the famous Elizalde-Melody Maker concert for musicians on June 23rd 1928 at the Shepherd's Bush Pavilion. He makes an interesting observation about Elizalde's playing of "In A Mist": "....This was followed by a set of piano solos by Fred Elizalde, who commenced, in response to numerous requests, with his famous composition "Pianotrope," and finished with Bix Beiderbecke's "In A Mist", in which he was accompanied by the whole orchestra, the work having been scored for orchestra by Max Farley".

Incidentally, Nelson also provides a suggestion for why Quealey and Livingston had quit the band so suddenly a few days before the concert, and it seems to me to be a more believable, if somewhat more prosaic, reason than the one long held to be the case (that they got drunk and magically woke up on board a ship bound for their home country!). "Fud Livingston and Chelsea Quealey, two of the outstanding members of the band, left suddenly for America. The reason was not apparent at the time, although it is now averred that their income tax arrangers were responsible for their flight." I should add that we now know that they did not return directly to America, but went to France first!

In the attached photo, which shows Adrian Rollini arriving with his latest crop of US imports for the Elizalde band (February 1929), the person given in the caption as Max Farley looks so unlike the photo of Farley given in the souvenir booklet of the Shepherd's Bush concert, that I cannot believe it is the same man, unless he immediately went on a strict diet and lost many pounds! But that is certainly Fud on the extreme left of the photo and Arthur Rollini on the extreme right, and of course there is no mistaking Adrian. The front cover for the souvenir booklet is also attached, along with an interesting review of Livingston's well-known composition "Imagination".

1. The photograph.

2. The cover of the souvenir booklet.

3. The review of Red Nichols’s recording of “Imagination.”

Some additional comments. There is information about the Elizalde concert in

http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/recordingsinamist.htm#ElizaldePublicPerformance

Elizalde’s concert was discussed in the forum. See

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1062784744

There is a short piece entitled “Fred Elizalde and Bix” in

http://bixography.com/inforrelated.htm#elizaldebix

and reviews of Bix recordings in the MM (one review by the Elizalde brothers) in

http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/ArticlesinMagazines.htm#melodymaker

I have a page (also thanks to Nick) about Livingston in

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/FudLivingston/FudLivingston.html

Now, on to “Imagination.”

There are several different compositions, all entitled “Imagination.” I will only cite a couple, other then Fud’s. One was composed by Roger Wolfe Kahn, Irving Caesar and Joseph Meyer. The red hot jazz archive has streaming files of the recordings of this tune by Winegar's Pennsylvania Boys, Roger Wolfe Kahn, and Harry Reser. There was in 1940 at least two recordings of Jimmy Van Heusen-johnny Burke’s composition “Imagination”, one by Glenn Miller and one by Tommy Dorsey.

Fud’s “Imagination” was recorded by Red Nichols and His Five Pennies on June 1, 1928. Miff Mole’s Molers had recorded the tune nine months earlier, on Aug 30, 1927. [I played Miff’s version in WBIX # 85, “Sophisticated/Modernistic Jazz From the 1920s.”] The Charleston Chasers recorded the tune one week later on Sep 8, 1927.The three versions have Red and Miff and Fud in them.

First listen to the three versions in chronological order.

Mole’s Molers http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/mole/imagination.ram

Charleston Chasers http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/charleston/imagination.ram

Five Pennies http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/BRUE27626.ram

My favorite version is Miff’s, by far. I love the trombone solo by Miff with Berton on cymbals behind; similar to Bix and Morehouse in “Im Coming Virginia.” Is this Miff’s longest solo on record? Red’s playing here is fantastic. Incidentally, two remarks in connection with recent postings in the forum. “Imagination” is an example of a jazz ballad, particularly the Miff and Charleston Chasers versions. The version by the Five Pennies has at the end (unmistakably, and at the beginning also, but not as clearly enunciated) a quote of “A Blues Serenade.”

Now the musicians in the bands, all from Rust.

Miff Mole’s Molers.
Red Nichols, t; Miff Mole, tb; Fud Livingston, cl, as; Adrian Rollini, bsx; Arthur Schutt, p; Dick McDonough, bj; Eddie Lang, g; Vic Berton, d.
Problem: In his Lang discography, Ray Mitchell lists the same musicians except that he adds Pee Wee Russell on as and gives Fud only an as role. Sudhalter in “Lost Chords” and Steve Stroff in “Red Head” give the same as Ray. Since the recording consists mostly of Miff’s and Red’s solos, I can’t tell if there are two alto saxes. I don’t even hear Lang. I hear a banjo at the end. I hear the great Rollini throughout with little bits that add a dimension to the recording.

Charleston Chasers.
Red Nichols, Leo McConville, t; Miff Mole, tb; Pee Wee Russell, Fud Livingston, cl, as; Jack Hansen, bb; Lennie Hayton, p; Dick McDonough, bj, g; Carl Kress, g; Vic Berton,d.
Who plays the clarinet solo at 1:46? Sudhalter tells us it is Pee Wee. Do you agree? I think it is Fud. Brad, you have studied Fud in detail; what is your opinion?

Red Nichols.
Red Nichols, Leo McConville, Manny Klein, t; Miff Mole, tb; Dudley Fosdick, mel; Fud Livingston, cl, as; Joe Venuti, vn; Arthur Schutt, p; Carl Kress, g; Art Miller, sb; Chauncey Morehouse, d
Steve Stroff does not list Klein, Venuti and Miller. This agrees with the list of musicians in the review Nick sent, except for the instrument (b or g) played by Kress (and the spelling of his first name) and the presence of Klein. I don’t hear a violin or a sb. I hear vibes. The clarinet at 0:1 is probably Fud (agree, Brad?). Dudley comes in at 1:25 and Miff at 2:14.

I agree that the solos vary from recording to recording.

Thanks Nick, for sending this. It made me revisit “Imagination,” a great tune with three great interpretations.

Albert

Posted on Aug 29, 2008, 8:27 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

About Fud Livingston, ....

.... a Ralph Venables quote found in http://www.devradowrite.com/?p=127

Here’s what R. G. V. Venables, wrote in an English publication [Melody Maker Mag. Jan. 5, 1940]: “Fud Livingston — a composer of infinitely greater range and harmonic sophistication than [Jelly Roll] Morton — had reached, by 1928, a degree of accomplishment in scoring unmatched by Duke Ellington and Don Redman.”

Albert

Posted on Aug 29, 2008, 5:06 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Joe Sanders and his orchestra

by Steve Zalusky

For those of you who are fans of Coon-Sanders and are curious what happened to the band after Coon's death, here is a link to recordings and radio broadcasts by Joe Sanders and his Orchestra. http://www.archive.org/details/JoeSandersNighthawks-11-20

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 11:38 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Whiteman with Bix On Tour In Europe?

This is from the Davenport paper

The reporter claims that Whiteman with Bix, will go on tour in Europe in the late winter, spring and summer [1928].

I have not seen this anywhere else, in Evans and Evans or in Rayno's book. Has anyone?

Imagine how different the science/art of Bixology would have been if Whiteman with Bix had gone to Europe in 1928!!

Albert

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 11:01 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

WBIX # 154 has been uploaded

Radio Program # 154. (loaded on 08/28/08) Recordings of Miff Mole without Red Nichols 1 hour 4 minutes.

Real Audio
Streaming audio file http://www.bixography.com/wbix154.ram
Download file. 15.8 MB http://www.bixography.com/wbix154.rm

mp3 files
Streaming mp3 file http://bixography.com/wbixmp3/wbix154.m3u
Download file Copy and paste bixography.com/wbixmp3/wbix154.mp3 62.0 MB

Jimtown Blues. Cotton Pickers. 1924.
Mishawaka Blues. Cotton Pickers. 1925.
Tessie! Ray Miller. 1925.
Red Hot Henry Brown. Ray Miller. 1925.
I've Got A Feeling I'm Falling. Miff Mole's Molers. 1929.
That's A Plenty. Miff Mole's Molers. 1929.
Sweet Papa Joe. Original Memphis Five. 1923.
Hootin' the Hoot. Original Memphis Five. 1923.
Ain't Misbehavin'. Charleston Chasers. 1929.
Moanin' Low. Charleston Chasers. 1929.
My Honey's Loving Arms. Jazzbo's Carolina Serenaders. 1922.
Cuddle Up Blues. Jazzbo's Carolina Serenaders. 1922.
Wouldn't You? Roger Wolfe Kahn. 1926.
Just the Same. Roger Wolfe Kahn. 1927.

WBIX #155 will be uploaded on October 3, 2008.

Albert
http://bixbeiderbecke.com
http://bixography.com/wbix.html

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 6:05 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Jimmy Lytell, An Underrated Clarinetist.

From Oxford Music Online

Lytell, Jimmy [Sarrapede, James]
(b New York, 1 Dec 1904; d Kings Point, NY, 28 Nov 1972). American clarinetist. By the age of 14 he was playing professionally in a roadhouse owned by his uncle. Having taken a new surname from that of a film actor, Bert Lytell, he joined the Original Indiana Five (autumn 1921) and then the Original Dixieland Jazz Band (early 1922), replacing Larry Shields. From March 1922 to 1925 he was a member of the Original memphis five, and during this period he took part in many of its pseudonymous studio sessions (for a listing of group names see Napoleon family, (1) Phil). Throughout the 1930s and 1940s Lytell conducted and played for several radio programs. He was a music director for NBC in the mid-1940s and presented his own dixieland show, “The Chamber Music Society of Lower Basin Street” (1940, 1941, 1944). He joined Napoleon’s re-formed Original Memphis Five in summer 1949 and Frank Signorelli’s re-formed Original Memphis Five in the mid-1950s, recording with Signorelli (as accompanists to Connee Boswell) in 1956 and under Miff Mole’s leadership in 1958. He continued to perform both as a leader and a freelance until shortly before his death. As a member of the Original Memphis Five Lytell helped to introduce a freer style of improvisation in the dixieland idiom. Later his playing was influenced by the work of Benny Goodman and Peanuts Hucko.
Raymond J. Gariglio/Barry Kernfeld

Scott Yanow states that Jimmy Lytell is underrated. I strongly agree.
Jimmy Lytell
Born:
Dec 01, 1904

Died:
Nov 28, 1972
• Genre: Jazz
• Instrument: Clarinet
Biography
One of the most underrated clarinetists in jazz history, Jimmy Lytell was one of the first clarinetists to really swing, but he never really achieved much fame. He began playing professionally at age 12. A member of the Original Indiana Five in 1921, Lytell was a member of the Original Memphis Five, with whom he recorded extensively from 1922-25. He also spent part of 1922-24 as a member of the declining Original Dixieland Jazz Band. After the late 1920s, Lytell was found more often in the studios and orchestras (including being on NBC's staff) for radio programs than in jazz settings, although he managed to combine the two by being the musical director for "The Chamber Music Society of Lower Basin Street" in the early 1940s. Starting in 1949 and continuing off and on for a decade, he ofte