The Bixography Discussion Group

A vehicle for Bixophiles and other interested individuals to ask questions, make comments and exchange information about Bix Beiderbecke and related subjects.

Any views expressed in the Bixography Forum represent solely the opinions of those expressing them and are not necessarily endorsed or opposed by Albert Haim unless he has signed the message.

I started archiving some of the threads that have been inactive for some time. The archived threads can be found at http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/archivesforum.htm

Albert Haim, Forum Owner

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Johnny Mercer and Bix

by

A friend of mine recorded the last week's telecast of the TCM program on Johnny Mercer (Clint Eastwood was the executive producer).

The famous photo of Bix is shown on the screen whilte Johnny Mercer talks about Skylark,

"Hoagy had this tune and I couldn't think of what to write because it has this front line which is so pure and kind of classic and bucolic, and in the middle there is straight Bix Beiderbecke."

During the program several musicians with connections to Bix were mentioned, Louis Armstrong, Hoagy Carmichael, Bing Crosby, Benny Goodman, Gene Krupa, Jack Teagarden and Paul Whiteman.

Albert 



Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 2:15 PM

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Bix Beiderbecke Memorial Jazz Festival Bands for 2010

by Josh Duffee

Hi Albert,

Thought I'd send you a list of the bands participating in the 2010 Bix Beiderbecke Memorial Jazz Festival. Never too early to start spreading the news!

Bix Jazz Festival Line-up

*Andy Schumm and His Gang
(Andy Schumm - Cornet ; Dave Bock - Trombone ; John Otto - Clarinet ; Dave Boeddinghaus - Piano ; Leah Bezin - Banjo ; Vince Giordano - String Bass/Bass Sax/Tuba ; Josh Duffee - Drums)

*Dan Levinson's Roof Garden Jass Band (NYC)
(Dan Levinson - Clarinet/C Melody Sax ; Jon-Erik Kellso - Cornet ; David Saeger - Trombone ; Tom Roberts - Piano ; Kevin Dorn - Drums)

*Cynthia Sayer and Sparks Fly (NYC)
(Cynthia Sayer - Banjo ; Randy Sandke - Trumpet ; John Allred - Trombone ; Rest of line-up TBA)

*Josh Duffee & His Orchestra (Davenport, IA)

*Ballyhoo Foxtrot Orchestra (Des Moines, IA)

*Firecracker Jazz Band (North Carolina)

*Buffalo Ridge Jazz Band (Ohio)

*New Red Onion Jazz Babies (Missouri)

*Bix Beiderbecke Youth Jazz Band (Quad Cities IA and IL)

We have a great line-up for next year, and, we're already working on our line-up for the 40th anniversary celebration for 2011. Thanks for helping spread the word!

Sincerely Yours,

Josh Duffee

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 9:55 AM

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Thanks, Josh.

by

The first four groups need no introduction here. Some of the musicians in the groups contribute to the forum, and the names of all are well known to most, if not all of us.

I thought that people would not be that familiar with the next four bands, so here are some links with useful information.

Ballyhoo Foxtrot Orchestra

http://showcase.netins.net/web/dixiefest/page9.html

Firecracker Jazz Band

http://www.firecrackerjazz.com/

Buffalo Ridge Jazz Band

http://www.jazztrek.com/

New Red Onion Jazz Babies

http://www.newredonionjazzbabies.com/

Looks like an excellent line-up. Thanks for all the work you and the board of the Bix Society are doing to keep the Bix flame burning bright.

Albert

 



Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 11:38 AM

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Eddie Leonard’s Biography: Nary a Word About Eddie Munson

by

 What a Life, Im Telling You, by Eddie Leonard, The Actor, Published by Eddie Leonard, 200 West 70th Street, New York City, Copyright 1934 by Eddie Leonard, Printed by Minden Press, Inc, NY. Evidently, a self-published book.

 

There are several mentions of the tune Ida, Sweet As Apple Cider, many of them minor. I copied citations with useful information regarding the authorship of the tune. Eddie Munson is not mentioned anywhere in the book.

 

From the section where Leonard lists the tunes he composed.

 

[linked image]

 

I wonder what authorship is given in the two copyright documents.

 

Here is what Leonard writes regarding the circumstances surrounding his first performance of the tune.

 

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

 

A quote from a newspaper (included in the autobiography) regarding Leonards procedure for composing tunes.

 

[linked image]

[linked image]

 

Unfortunately, Leonards autobiography throws no light about Eddie Munson.

 

I found another composition by Eddie Munson, from

 

http://www.gettextbooks.ca/search/?isbn=B0000D0962

 

Go Take A Walk and Dont Come Back, lyrics by Fred Clark, music by Eddie H. Munson. Publisher M. Witmak and Sons, 1903.

 

Thats all I was able to dig out.

 

Albert

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 14, 2009 9:24 AM

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 9:18 AM

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Untitled

by Neil

Every time I drop my wife off at the gym in Sunnyside, Queens I pass Bix's apt. bldg. Sometimes I'm lucky enough to get parking there. I always check out the plaque.

Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 3:43 PM

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Samuel Charters On Bix

by

From  [linked image]

[linked image]

A few comments.

1. Charters cites the influence of Goldkette musicians (somehow, he misspells Goldkette's first name). However, I point out, as discussed at length in my article "Copying Bix" that the influence of Bix goes back to his Wolverine days.

2. Arrangers are sometimes (or perhaps, often?)  neglected in analyses of recordings, but Charters appropriately points out the importance of the great Bill Challis.

3. Charters mentions Bix imitators in Europe and in dance bands, and thus reiterates a point (worth reiterating) that has been discussed in detail in past postings in the forum, as well as in CDs by the producers of Bix Restored and by Nick in his CD set on the influence of Bix in Europe and the US.

4. I am not aware of examples of Bix's solos being played by saxophone sections of Henderson and McKinney Cotton Pickers. If memory serves, Henderson scored Trumbauer's solo in Singin the Blues for a sax section, but Bix's solo was taken up by Rex Stewart alone. Does anyone know of a McKinney's Cotton Pickers recording where a Bix solo is scored for an entire sax section?

Albert  



Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 5:24 AM

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I don’t think so

by Paul Bocciolone Strandberg

I dont think so. I dont think that there are any examples of entire saxophone sections, in orchestras like Fletcher Hendersons in New York and McKinneys Cotton Pickers in Detroit, played scored arrangements of Beiderbecke solos. He may mean influenced by Beiderbecke or even choruses that could have been played on cornet by Beiderbecke. Unfortunately this is not the only instance in the book where you have to rewrite the text to understand the meaning. The most embarrassing is when Charters at length discusses the two takes of Southern Stomps by King Olivers Creole Jazzband, when its quite obvious that he thinks about another tune (!) Mabels Dream. I suppose that we have to live with that. I hope that you will read and enjoy the book about Tommy Ladnier as I am doing right now even if on page 55 it is simply said in connection with the riverboats and the Streckfus Line and with no footnote or further explanation: Even if the impression is that Streckfus hired only Black bands, in fact they also hired just as many White bands. The Black bands, however, played better.
To return to the Charters quote I just dont think that it is true that the influence of Bix extended the one of Armstrong on the next two or three years of jazz recording. Even if for example the recordings that have been brought forward by Nick Dellow as examples of Bixs influence in Europe are nice very enjoyable pieces of music they should be labelled Hot Dance Music (or simply Dance records) and not as jazz recordings. (There are some amazing ecceptions of course, such as Gregorology).


Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 10:12 AM

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Some things for “Bixophiles” to think about.

by

I would like to share my thoughts on the current state of the Bix website and the attitude of some Bixophiles

While I appreciate the infrequent useful information that readers of the website contribute, I am becoming increasingly concerned with the childish bickering that goes on which not only fills up my inbox with useless garbage, but also contributes nothing to the cause.

Another concern of mine is the subject matters people bring to the forum.

was Bix a scruffy dresser? Give me a break, some of those photos we saw of him looking a little messy could have been taken of him at 3 oclock in the morning or after a hard gig. The ones where hes smart couldve been taken before a friends wedding. Who knows who cares?

I think its important to gather some background information on our hero to try to understand him in a more rounded way but I think to go beyond a certain extent is unnecessary, verging on the perverted.

Who cares what happend to Bixs clothes from the Queens apartment? What are we going to do, wear them? Stick them in a glass case for a handful of idiots to stare at?

I think, as a young individual that loves this music from the 1920s and 30s that we have a duty of care and a much higher agenda to attend to. These are the type questions we should be asking.

What can we do to make the Bix festival better?
What can I do to introduce more people to this music?
What can be done to make Bix and 1920s and 30s music interesting for kids?
How can we encourage this as live music?

While its nice to be told that Bix didnt really like Old Gold cigarettes, its not going to help this music in the long run. If something isnt done now, in 10 or 20 years time NOBODY will care a lick what he smoked!

Please try to do your bit and think before you post.

Alex Mendham



Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 3:29 AM

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Bix

by Jamaica

I agree about the bickering, but I've posted enough times, complaining about that. As for matters connected with Bix's personality, however, I enjoy having the freedom to have such discussions. It isn't perverted to wonder such things as what he liked to read, or what he thought about any number of things, or even silly things like, did he like argyle socks? One thing I don't care about Bix fandom is the tendency of fans to have such awe for him, that we hold the man at arm's length, and allow him to be nothing more than a legend, rather than the warm, funny, sometimes eccentric human being that he was. He wasn't just a musician, he was a MAN loved by his family and friends.

By all means, discuss the man's work, it's what put Davenport on the international map, it's what he spent his life doing, and it's the natural thing for musicians to want to concentrate on that, but there are others here, writers, acting students (or former, in my case), who thrive on those little bits of info that somehow, added together, was part of this creative genius, and we like to know the man behind the creation. The forum should have something for everybody, not just one group. The bickering, however, we can do without.

Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 5:35 AM

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Great Post!

by

I had a good laugh about "Who cares about Bix's clothes? What are we going to do, wear them?!"


- Laura

Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 5:44 AM

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Are People Who go To Museums Idiots, Then?

by

But you know what, Alex, what about stuff like old artifacts, including clothing and such, which represent the lifestyles of people 100 or more years ago? Museums are full of such things; are people who go to them and look at these items behind glass cases idiots, in your opinion?


:D Inquirin' minds want to know.


I think the interest in Bix is less obsessive "perversion" than just wanting to know about a fasciniating musician who was a major influence on jazz culture. The bickering we can do without; I for one hate fighting. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Laura


Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 6:11 AM

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Are People Who go To Museums Idiots, Then?

by

Yeah I'm 'fraid so old bean.

Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 7:23 AM

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I like SOME Museums!

by

Well, I wouldn't pay the arm-and-a-leg stupid high-priced admission they charge for the crappy, crummy, boring museums they have here in Pittsburgh, the most culturally bereft place in the country (You know the drill. Doff your hat and worship the ground robber-baron, mill-worker-murdering fascist pig Andrew Carnegie spat on, and the dumb yinzer yokels here think looking at a bunch of replicas of dinosaur models is a MUSEUM) but I grew up with some nice museums back home in Cleveland, especially the Western Reserve Historial Society. I love to look at old every day things people used. But then being keen on flea markets, used bookstores and the like to find my treasured old 1920's magazines and 78 records, it stands to reason why I would.

The coziest and to my mind most fascinating museum was in my childhood home-town of Bedford, Ohio -- suburban Cleveland but has a quaint little old-fashioned "town square" and aside from the development sprawl on the outskirts of town, time ground to a halt -- in the 1970's I could easily step into the 1870's in a blink. If you could see and smell the quiet, musty, perpetually silent Bedford Historial Society Museum, housed in the 1874 building which was once the Town Hall - now restored but never renovated - you could easily get happily lost in another era; leaving the place was like coming out of a dream, and everything was hands-on: stereoscopic pictures, you know those old sepia photos one viewed through a hand-held lens contraption which made 140 year old pictures look 3D; books, books, and more wonderful books which browsers were allowed to purchase for mere coins; each small floor-creaking room full of dummies dressed in authentic old clothing one could reach out and touch (and this ol' idiot had a blast looking at those dummies!); rooms full of pots, pans, yard tools, early radios and yes, Victrolas. Maybe it was Bedford's garbage heap of possessions from the once-were-alive, but it was a fascinating one and had that "You Are There" appeal. It was the perfect place to while away a chilly overcast autumn afternoon.

There was very little to gape at behind a glass; it was all out there for us to examine. A couple of elderly showcases lit by flickering fluorescent tubes displayed the Untouchable items: WWI weaponry, letters soldiers wrote to their families, and the unopened 1918 packet of Wrigley's Spearmint Chewing Gum fondly remembvered and snickered over by every class field trip our elementary school across the street too there.

So, would the Putnam Museum in Davenport be found so wanting to you? I think it'd be a wonderful place to visit, although I've never been. Alex, I wonder if because of your youth you are prevented from getting to see REAL museums, or are just subject to all most people nowadays are experiencing: the boring, brightly lit, modernistic, soul-less institutions where you press a button and a recorded voice yaps about something historical, and you look at pictures of pictures behind 3 layers of glass and innumerable computer screens. I'd hate that too. And think it was idiotic.

Laura

Laura

Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 10:19 AM

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Bedford Ohio

by Mike O

Laura, is the museum in Bedford still there? It would make a great weekend jaunt for me.

Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 12:19 PM

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Yes, Bedford Museum is there!

by

Hi Mike. Yes it is, and the Historical Society is, I believe, still open on Sunday afternoons. You might want to call first. They do have a website, just put in Bedford Ohio Museum, or Bedford Ohio Historical Society, and the website will pop up. They will have the phone number. The ladies who work there are very nice. It's been years since I've been there but I bet they still have the dressed up mannequins and so forth. Let me know how you like it! :D

- Laura

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 9:09 AM

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Idiots

by Jamaica

(Snort!) So how is snooping around a vintage clothing store, buying a 1920's jacket, or looking around an antiques store any different? I seem to recall an afternoon, in Davenport, where we were doing just that, my cross, young friend. wink.gif BTW, how's things with your band?

- Your friend,
the idiot

Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 2:01 PM

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So What do the Cretins and the Morons do? :D

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Okey-doke, Alex, I guess the cretins go to the library and the morons go watch silent movies at film festivals?

ha ha

- just kidding, from Laura

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 9:11 AM

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The Forum is not the only place where Bix's personal habits are mentioned.

by

Arnold Shaw is the author of an excellent book "The Jazz Age: Popular Music in the 1920s." [Oxford University Press, 1987]. Mr. Shaw received the 1988 ASCAP Deems Taylor Award for this book.

I present a quote from the book.

[linked image]

It will be seen that Mr. Shaw deems the subject of sufficient importance to be included in his book, and that Hoagy Carmichael has som,e comments about Bix's personal appearance.

Of course, the music that Bix created is of essence, but a study of his music does not preclude researching other topics associated with Bix - what music did he listen to, what books did he read, did he enjoy sports, what was his personality, what did he look like, who were his friends, etc. It is not either his music or his life, it is both. And from the time I launched the Bixography website and the forum, my purpose was clearly defined.

This site is dedicated to the preservation and dissemination of  information about Bix Beiderbecke, the musical genius from Davenport, Iowa. [I highlight the word dissemination; that is the purpose of the Bixography website].

A vehicle for Bixophiles and other interested individuals to ask questions, make comments and exchange information about Bix Beiderbecke and related subjects.

Certainly, the music is paramount. Why do I have 169 WBIX programs where I have played dozens and dozens of 1920s recordings, by Bix and by his contemporaries musicians?

The Bixography website and its satellites (WBIX, the forum) represent my decade-long effort via the powerful medium of the internet to preserve and disseminate the legacy of Bix Beiderbecke. If I may say so, it has been a phenomenal success. Thousands of visits to the Bixography, the Forum and WBIX everyday attest to the success. I receive hundreds of messages from people (outside the forum) seeking information about Bix, a good number from high school students writing papers on Bix and/or 1920s music. I respond to every one of them. The forum is just the tip of the iceberg. The amount of effort, time, and work I devote to Bix is unparalleled, and I am confident that via the Bixography website and its satellites I have planted seeds around the world that have born fruit and will continue to do so in the future.

Albert Haim

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 14, 2009 11:20 AM

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 11:18 AM

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"fills up my inbox with useless garbage" There are two solutions.

by

1. Demand  the  correspondents who fill your inbox with garbage to take you off their mailing lists.

2. Use the tool in your mail server to block the undesirable individuals who bombard you with unwanted messages.

Albert Haim

 



Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 8:13 AM

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Re: Some things for “Bixophiles” to think about.

by

In an effort to resist the sarcasm that might come easily in response to Alex Mendham's post, I'll refrain from assuring everyone that I've done my bit and thought (really hard!) before I posted. Still, it's tough not to be prickly when he expresses concern over "childish bickering" by calling some people "idiots," some contributions "useless garbage," and some people's interests as "verging on the perverted." If that's not childish bickering, what is?

I appreciate that Mr. Mendham cares about the livelihood of Bix's music. I also am impressed that he's able to succinctly list his priorities (making the Bix festival better, introducing more people to the music, et al.). But I object to the idea that his "higher agenda" has to be mine, that "help[ing] the music" is something I should be concerned with, that I should subscribe to his "cause," and that I should think about Bix as "our hero."

I'm a writer whose book about Bix Beiderbecke, "Finding Bix," has been accepted for publication by Speck Press and is tentatively scheduled to appear sometime in 2011. It's not a biography; neither is it musical criticism. Instead, the book is interested in how Bix is remembered. Exactly those things that Mr. Mendham detests, I find interesting -- discussions over Bix's clothes or the cigarettes he smoked, for instance. I don't pretend to think that they are critically important to understanding "the real Bix" (I don't think such an understanding is possible); rather, I think they are important to understanding the Bix of legend, of myth, of memory -- the Bix we create every day by talking about him.

Like Mr. Mendham, I am sometimes frustrated that more Bixophiles don't care about exactly the stuff I care about. If only I had a dime for every time I've been told that all that matters is the music, or that the legend needs to be debunked or eradicated, not studied or discussed. I'm even frustrated that, when Bixophiles of this persuasion do engage me, they don't always end up agreeing with me. (I'm sure that after they read my book, they'll all be converted!)

What I do try to do in my book (and on this site) is make arguments rather than call names or insist on agendas. Bix Beiderbecke is not my hero and he's not my cause. I think, though, that Albert Haim has done well to make room for all of us here.

Posted on Nov 13, 2009, 12:00 PM

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Some things for “Bixophiles” to think about.

by

I'm glad my post has ruffled a few our your feathers.

I would like to remark that if it wasn't for the MUSIC Bix created, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Brendan Wolfe, did you write your book "Finding Bix because he had a cute round face? Because he liked or disliked argyll socks or because of what cigarettes he smoked? I sincerely hope not and I hope that your writing efforts have come from your love of his music.

To know about Bix's music (this is to all fans , not just Mr Wolfe) and not be really all that concerned with the diminishing number of attendees each year and the amount of white hairs at the Bix festival, I feel that's slightly selfish. Its like taking out of a pot and not putting anything back into in.

I think if we look at it as a whole, things need to be put in place now or else among other things, your peripheral book Mr Wolfe is gonna be a dead duck.

One of the reasons music from the classical and romantic period is still listened to today is because people knew then that they needed to invest in it in order for it to survive. Places like Carnegie Hall were built to let it flourish. Now, what are we doing about our music? We're sending cartoons of each other via email! Is this productive?

True Jamaica, in your post entitled Idiots I admit that I like old things. Things from the 20's and 30's fascinate me but it's a fascination that has grown out of the music.

It appears that some of you have the wrong end of the stick about my initial post. I had said that I think it is sometimes nice to know what Bix smoked etc but I don't think this kind of thing should be taking centre stage on the forum as it has.

Here's a for instance, Mr Wolfe. Say you become a legend off your book. Legions of fans, then decades later some guy sets up a website. It's called BrendanWolf.com and it has a forum too. Would you rather have your fans GUESSING if you wore pyjamas in bed or slept in the nude or would you rather have them talk about your wonderful books?

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 5:57 AM

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Guilty confession

by Jamaica

I hate to say it Alex, but I became obsessed with Bix, when I read Frederick Turner's novel, "1929." I hadn't heard a note of his music, at that point, but I was obsessed. Of course, once I heard his music, I bought a cornet...lol!

Actually, most Bix fans I know, are very proactive, when it comes to spreading the word about him. God knows how many times I've lent his music to someone, or showed them the Berman documentary, or passed around books about him. Those of us who attend the festivals, are supporting them financially... as far as those things go, you're preaching to the choir. As to how to get more people into this music, well, you know the old adage, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink... To me, movies are the answer, but as you're trying to point out, bickering sure ain't. I agree wholeheartedly. I know of people who not only quit posting at Bixography, because of it, but God forbid, quit Bix altogether because of it. The fights left such a bitter taste in their mouths, that they couldn't hear Bix's beautiful music, without associating it with precisely what you're talking about, Alex; but I'm afraid such a statement falls on deaf ears. God knows several of us have tried in the past. People who genuinely love Bix, need to think of his legacy first, and put aside their own egos. We all want Bix to continue to live on, don't we?

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 8:34 AM

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How long will he live on for?

by

Of course we all want his legacy to continue, but how long into the future will it be sustainable? When our generation have passed on and the one after us have also departed, will the name Bix Beiderbecke be nothing more than just another name in jazz history books? Under "B" there he is in that famous photo as at the top of this Forum page with his cornet on his knee and a few paragraphs informing the reader who he was. After all even today, stopping anyone at random in the street and enquiring of them the question "Do you know who Bix Beiderbecke was?" will a produce a blank face and a shaking of the head in a negative fashion. I've said before on the Forum, when playing any example of any music from the twenties, thirties and forties to to-day's teenagers, it's dismissed as "Grandad's music" and not considered to be of any further interest to them. Modern music, in their minds, starts with Heartbreak Hotel in 1956. Anything before that date is too far back in time to be of any interest whatsoever. Already there is nobody left alive who knew Bix personally. The biographies have informed us all there is to know about him and where he was almost every day from day one to his death. Most of us have in our collections almost every phonograph recording he ever made. As Bixophiles we've come to know it all. He's our hero and idol. And still the postings on the Forum keep coming. And so they will hopefully for some years to come yet. Until that fateful day comes around when the decision is taken to close it down due to "lack of interest".

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 10:07 AM

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A Clarification

by

You write, "We're sending cartoons of each other via email! " No, we are not. Two individuals waste their and other people's time sending cartoons of me, period.

Albert Haim

 

 



Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 9:09 AM

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Finding Bix or Defending Bix?

by

Here's my guilty confession: I don't mind the arguing, or at least so long as it doesn't devolve into name-calling. But I can't take seriously someone who calls other people idiots and their interests perverted and then turns around and complains about "childish bickering." Either you're respectful or you're not.

That said, I have no quarrel with those for whom the music is more important than anything else. I certainly have no quarrel with those who want to prioritize the long-term health of the Bix festival or with those who want to proselytize on behalf of Bix's music. I love his music, too, and I'm always happy to share it with anyone who's interested (and yes, even a few who aren't; I turn it up even louder for them!).

Here's the thing, though: to say, as Mr. Mendham did, "that if it wasn't for the MUSIC Bix created, we wouldn't be having this discussion," is not to say that nothing else is worth talking about. Without Bix's music, there wouldn't have been the Romantic legend -- but I would argue that without the legend, without the Bix Beiderbecke as remembered by Otis Ferguson and Dorothy Baker and Mezz Mezzrow and Hoagy Carmichael and Ralph Berton and (as Jamaica reminded us) Frederick Turner, without the Bix Beiderbecke whose legend is for some so seductive and others so frustrating, without all the arguments that follow and the passion that invariably attends them, well, I'm not sure we would be having this discussion, either.

Some people here might agree with me but find such a state of affairs infuriating. Others might just vigorously disagree, and I'm happy to have that discussion. But I think I approach the whole issue differently from Mr. Mendham and others. Like I said, Bix is not my hero and he's my cause. I don't have a personal investment in him. I don't feel any need to defend him or his music, and I certainly don't put myself in his shoes, imagining if I were the subject of a forum like this one.

Aside from being a writer and an editor, I work as an historian. Bix is an historical figure, which means he gets talked about in all sorts of ways. And because he's dead, I'm not worried about what he would think.

Like I said, others feel differently. In my book, I argue that this personal investment can sometimes be silly, but I don't think I go so far as to say that such people are idiots. I'll reread and double-check.

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 10:25 AM

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Either you're respectful or you're not.

by

Mr Wolfe,

Please re-read what you wrote, for ease of reference, I will quote you here

"Either you're respectful or you're not."

Now, I'll quote you here

"because he's dead, I'm not worried about what he would think."

It appears to me that your one of the latter Mr Wolfe.

I think you know my views and I hope I've expressed my feeling on the subject coherantly. It is because of this that I do not wish to enter into further conversation on the subject.

Alex Mendham


Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 10:42 AM

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Sorry you feel that way.

by

I haven't been disrespectful to you or to Bix (whatever the latter means exactly). And I'm happy to stand by what I wrote.

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 3:54 PM

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Can't Wait for your Book

by

Well! That's exciting. I'll surely be keeping an eye out for your book coming out in 2011, Brendan.

Laura

Posted on Nov 14, 2009, 9:13 AM

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Eastwood Lane, Paul Whiteman, and Bix.

by

From Don Rayno's biography of Paul Whiteman.

 

Sidney Eastwood Lane (b. Nov 22, 1879, Brewerton, NY; d. Jan 22, 1951, Central Square, NY), composer studied at Syracuse University but dropped out after three and a half years, preferring instead to concentrate on his own private piano studies. His first major work, In Sleepy Hollow, was published in 1913. Subsequent compositions included Five American Dances (19191), Adirondack Sketches (1922), The Blue-Robed Mandarins (1922), Sea Burial (1925), Persimmon Pucker (1926) and Fourth of July Suite (1935). Whiteman recorded Sea Burial, arranged by Ferde Grofe, in 1928, and he remains the only orchestra leader to have recorded any of Lanes works. Whiteman also played Grofes arrangements of Persimmon Pucker amd A Minuet for Betty Schuyler on his 1924-25 concert tour. Though largely unrecognized, Lane was a gifted and original composer who greatly influenced key musical figures such as Bix Beiderbecke." 

 

From http://www.notecloud.com/bio.htm#BIX

 

"Bix was first exposed to Eastwood Lane in 1923, when Bix took piano lessons from Priscilla Holbrock of Hamilton, Ohio. Later he coaxed jazz pianist-composer Dud Mecum into playing Lane's somewhat daunting modernist pieces for him, and eventually developed a friendship with Lane himself and delighted in listening for hours to Lane's playing of his own music. When Beiderbecke developed his own moody piano style, it was based on unfettered 1920s jazz and a subtle, introverted impressionism much like Lane's. His favorite Lane work was Land of the Loon, a quiet, haunting picture of solitude in nature. Bix's four late-1920s piano compositions, In a Mist, Candlelights, Flashes and In the Dark, were noodled out at the keyboard while one of Whiteman's resident arranging geniuses, "Bill Challis." carefully transcribed them. They are all titled after visual experiences, "states of light and sight," and evoke ambiguous feelings in more than their titles. They are twilit compositions, in which quiet dimness, a persistent crepuscular indistinctness, is pierced by rays of light, an alternation of lyrical calm with pure jazz energy."

 

Listen to the tune Eastwood Lane written by Dave Frishberg (who wrote Dear Bix) and trombonist Don Barrett.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfziAzbkark&feature=related

 

Get a load of the introduction to the recording (and also at the end), the interlude of In A Mist. The youtube video mentions John Pizzarelli. Speaking of Pizzarelli, Bill Challis was arranging Lane's Adirondack Sketches for five guitars, but as Bill was losing his sight, he could not finish it. Bucky Pizzarelli recorded Bix's piano compositions arranged for five guitars by Bill Challis.

 

On June 21, 1926, the Trumbauer orchestra had a broadcast over WSBT, South Bend, IN. The band played a three-part program. In the second part, Bix played The Legend of Lonesome Lake from Lane's Adirondack Sketches. Did someone (Dud Mecum? Priscilla Holbrock? ) play Lane's composition for Bix and he memorized it (and if Mecum or Holbrock, remembered it three years later), or was Bix able to read the sheet music, slowly, but well enough to learn the piece or at least refresh his memory?

 

And if you have not done so already, don't fail to hear and watch the excellent videos by forumite Lisa with background music by Eastwood Lane,

 

Hudson Lake (The Legend of Lonesome Lake)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zemsSZuMTAg

 

and Hudson Lake 2 (Down Stream)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoxhlJWnfpU

 

 

Albert

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 12, 2009 3:33 PM

Posted on Nov 12, 2009, 3:14 PM

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type in what you are looking for and it will come up like magic

by hal smith

http://radiotime.com/Search.aspx?query=benny%20goodman

Posted on Nov 11, 2009, 1:20 AM

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Like magic . . .

by

Well, only if your desires aren't esoteric. "Sid Catlett", "Ruby Braff", "jo Jones",and "Buck Clayton" didn't bring up relevant results. But I typed in "Bix Beiderbecke" and came up with a Sarah Fishko program on Chet Baker, not my thing -- but as I am typing this, I am listening to a Marian McPartland "Piano Jazz" program from 2000 (rebroadcast in 2008) where she's joined by Dick Sudhalter, Howard Alden, and Bill Crow to talk about Bix and play some good songs, JAZZ ME BLUES and WAY DOWN YONDER among them. A prize, BUT the program is only an excerpt in this format, ending with the urging that the listener search it out on the NPR site. Exciting but disappointing.

Posted on Nov 12, 2009, 5:08 AM

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The URL for the complete ....

by

... NPR McPartland-Sudhalter-Beiderbecke program is

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98960166

Albert

 



Posted on Nov 12, 2009, 5:46 AM

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sudhalter on bix

by hal smith

http://radiotime.com/ProgramDetails.aspx?SegmentId=31378963&ProgramId=108478

Posted on Nov 11, 2009, 1:17 AM

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rare snooks friedman cd on ebay

by hal smith

http://cgi.ebay.com/snooks-Friedman-and-his-memphis-stompers_W0QQitemZ230397851981QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMusic_CDs?hash=item35a4c8394d#ht_500wt_1182

Posted on Nov 10, 2009, 12:13 AM

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Liberace plays Bix on Liberace's Tv show

by

I would like to see this Tv show that is for sale on ebay. Check out the item description. Does it actually say that Liberace plays the trumpet on this show in Bix's style? I would like to hear that. I didn't know that Liberace played the trumpet. I thought he only played piano.

http://cgi.ebay.com/16mm-THE-LIBERACE-SHOW-1950s-plays-Bix-Beiderbecke_W0QQitemZ280417222700QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Film?hash=item414a2b402c#ht_500wt_945

Posted on Nov 4, 2009, 8:01 PM

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Re: Liberace plays Bix on Liberace's TV show

by Rob Rothberg

Linda, I've never seen the clip, but according to information in the WPA Film Library's website http://www-wpafilmlibrary.mediarecall.net/detail/liberace_show_70_master_607/ed0573bf-7551-4f94-b7d7-5894b7cdba16.html), that part of the show consists of Liberace lip-synching someone else's trumpet playing on St. Louis Blues.

Posted on Nov 6, 2009, 9:17 AM

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Thanks for that information plus pic of Bix and a friend

by

Thanks for that information. Liberace lip synching to someone else playing St. Louis Blues is definitely different than the description in the ebay listing of Liberace playing the trumpet in Bix's style. Perhaps the person selling the film added that embellished description to add to the salability of the item. The title the seller gave the item, "16mm THE LIBERACE SHOW 1950s plays Bix Beiderbecke" was obviously done to reach Bix collectors. Still it would be interesting to see and hear Liberace "Talks about his column and reads from it about one of his heroes, Bix Beiderbecke."

As long as I am here check out this photo of Bix and a friend:

[linked image]

Posted on Nov 6, 2009, 5:43 PM

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Photo?

by

Linda -

What's the story with the photo?
When? Where? Who?
Any info?
Just curious!
Lisa


Posted on Nov 7, 2009, 12:15 PM

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Re: Photo?

by mkaroub

is Bix visiting north shore Chicago -winnetka maybe? his pal sid stewart in this pic-?
actually sid's aunt's hse , Sid's hse is in Flint MI -which Bix once gave as an address but doesnt seem to have actually stayed there--
sid stewart related to Charles stewart Mott foundation--

in Lyons book?

mk




Posted on Nov 7, 2009, 4:36 PM

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It's From Lake Forest Academy!

by

Hey hey ladies, that picture appearas in the Evans and Evans book --the friend is John Doolittle. It was taken in the autumn of 1921 at Lake Forest Academy. Where did you get such a clear, fabulous print of this, Linda? It's fantastic! The actual photo, isn't it? What a treasure.

Looking forward to more great YouTube treats, Lisa.

Let's all chat soon --

Laura





Posted on Nov 7, 2009, 7:17 PM

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Page 79 of Evans and Evans

by

Yes, the picture is on page 79 of Evans and Evans but cropped and I should have recognized it but I didn't because the full picture is not in Evans and Evans. Tim was right that the friend was named Doolittle. Tim sent out xeroxes of this picture years ago and that is probably the source of the picture in Evans and Evans. Poor quality in the book because made from a xerox copy.

Posted on Nov 7, 2009, 9:27 PM

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John Doolittle

by Jamaica

Interesting. Phil Evans sense of humor? A mistake? John Doolittle, huh? That's Sid Stewart. Unless John Doolittle was Sid's identical twin. Lol!

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 5:57 AM

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"Doolittle" myth or mistake goes back to when picture was first published

by

Tim wondered if anyone here besides him knew when the picture was first published or had seen it anyplace other than the Evans book. I hadn't recognized the picture being in Evans and Evans because the picture was cropped when it was published in Evans book. The top, bottom and sides are cut off in the picture on page 79 in Evans and Evans. Apparently the mistaken "Doolittle" identification goes back to 1971 when the picture was first published. Tim xeroxed the picture from its source back then and sent copies to collectors who hadn't seen the picture before. Tim still doesn't know how the "Doolittle" misidentification got attached to the picture. Plus the original publication of the picture only had "Doolittle and Bix" and a date of 1922 as identification for the picture. In Evans and Evans when the picture was published on page 79 "John" was added to Doolittle. Where did the name John come from for this non existent Dolittle person in the picture with Bix? I mention non existent Doolittle person because Jamaica identified him as Sid Stewart. Kudos to Jamaica for noticing this because when Phil Evans published the picture in Evans and Evans he still identified the person in the picture with Bix as Doolittle.

Also the original publication of the picture had the date of 1922 while in Evans and Evans the date is given as 1921. How did Phil Evans find out that the picture was from 1921 and not 1922 as it was originally published? Also notice on page 79 of Evans and Evans the picture is credited to Phil Pospychala. Tim said Posoychala was not one of the people he sent a xerox of the picture to in 1971. So maybe Tim sent a xerox of the picture to another collector in 1971 and that xerox was copied and sent to others until Phil Pospychala got ahold of a 3rd or 4th generation xerox. Tim said Phil Evans must have also known the original publication source of the picture so why did Phil use a 3rd or 4th generation xerox from Phil Pospychala which was cropped instead of a sharp copy of the entire picture from the 1st publication source?
Maybe Phil Pospychala was the original source for the publication of the picture when it was first published in 1971 and Evans did submit a good copy for publication in his book but the book company cropped the picture and did a poor publishing job so the picture is not clear. That explanation of the book company doing a lousy job with the pictures has been mentioned.

If no one here knows the the original publication source of the picture I will give that information.
But the original publication source of the picture in 1971 also caused a big mess over purported unissued alternate takes of I Didn't Know, Slow River, Clementine and Mary. Actually take 1 of each which were never issued and still aren't.

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 12:04 PM

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Re: John Doolittle

by m karoub

so I got the Sid stewart part right too-

sid could have been alive in Flint in 71-but what is the point of John dolittle mistake or hoax?? from that time...

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 7:01 PM

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bix photo

by mkaroub

my post didnt post....(?)
Is this in Lyons book?
re photo...I think Bix is visiting Sid Stewart's aunt in Winnetka or some Chi north shore suburb..Evanston (?)-memory eludes me ....
stewart fam home still exists in Flint MI(charity Charles stewart Mott Sid's family
although Bix asked his folks to write to him care of stewart Avon St Flint possible he never stayed there...

Posted on Nov 7, 2009, 8:07 PM

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Re: bix photo

by mkaroub

- I got(nearly) everything wrong..save for general location of Chicagoland...
what a fantastic picture Linda--not common at all.
evans/evans book not at hand..



Posted on Nov 7, 2009, 9:02 PM

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Re: Bix Photo

by

Is Bix waving, or making an "OK" sign with forefinger and thumb? What do you guys think?

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 6:40 PM

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Looks like Bix is waving at the camera with his right hand

by

It looks to me like Bix is waving at the camera with his right hand. Fortunately a clear version of this picture which was on that lp jacket from 1971 has been discovered and shared here. That is probably the clearest version of that photo we are going to see.
I have to say I am amazed by the experts here who discover so many new things about these photos when clear versions surface. Look at all the new information uncovered by the expert detectives here about the zoo Goldkette picture. And kudos again to Jamaica for recognizing Sid Stewart in that Lake Forest picture where so many experts who had seen the picture before went along with John Doolittle. I would love to see the Lake Forest yearbook from 1922 and see if a John Doolittle was attending the school.
One thing is for sure. I looked on page 101 of Evans and Evans and there is a picture of the Lake Forest Orchestra with identification of the band members and John Doolittle is not listed. But that is only a 10 piece band.
I just wish there were identifications printed for the large musical organization and glee club on the next 2 pages. Could there possibly be a John Doolittle in one of those pictures?
If there was only a source identified for the picture when it first appeared on that French RCA lp jacket we might know where the John Doolittle identification came from.
Would it be too late now for someone to write to French RCA and ask them?


Posted on Nov 9, 2009, 8:44 AM

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The caption is 'Bix and John Doolittle, Lake Forest, 1921'

by

The photo is in Evans and Evans p.79. Illustrating yet again how poor the reproduction of most of the photos in Phil Evan's otherwise well researched book are. Many do look like cheap photocopies. J.P.Lion's bio makes far better use of modern printing techniques. Of all the Bix biographies, the typography and high quality of J.P.'s book are second to none. It would appear that Scott Black's long promised biography would seem now to be a non-starter. Having seen the recently amazingly restored photo of the Goldkette boys playing in front of the bear cage at the Bronx Zoo, and as any more biographies will be mainly repetitive, perhaps just as most of Bix's recordings have been beautifully restored, could not a book of photographs similarly given careful treatment be a possibility?

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 1:44 AM

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Bio

by Jamaica

You ever read a description of how big Phil Evans' collection is? It's in need of being preserved, at the moment, and that takes precedence over the biography. Lol! It wouldn't be the first bio that's taken 20 years to write.

Yes, several of us, mostly women, have been clamoring for a coffee table quality book of Bix photographs to be made. Such a book is badly needed for history's sake, and badly wanted by at least a few fans, anyway.

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 5:54 AM

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Amen to that suggestion! (high quality photo book)

by

Ever since I started noodling around with Bix-inspired Youtube videos
I feel like I've been on a long aggravating (bordering-on-totally-obsessive)
Quest ... for high resolution photos! The quality of the reproductions
in the various Bix bios is crazy-making. It's as bad as looking at the
Ohio Home film clip, or the Goldkette Zoo movie - and straining to get
a closer look at Bix. The fact that there's a single clear bit of film
in Brigitte Berman's documentary drives me nuts - where's the
rest of it? (This has undoubtedly been discussed, my apologies for bringing
up an old topic)

I do understand (from first-hand experience, living with a textbook author who
often has to fight with his publisher over the quality and cost of photo
reproductions) how expensive those photo reproductions can be.
That said, I think a big fat glossy coffee table book of Bix-related photos
is a swell idea! Whether or not there's a big enough audience for such
a book is another matter, of course ... but I'd definitely be first in line
to grab a copy of it. Thanks to Ken for suggesting this!

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 10:10 AM

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Photo of Bix and friend at Lake Forest?

by

The photo looks like it could be from 1922 and taken on the grounds of Lake Forest Academy. Maybe Bix with one of his friends from the academy. Tim has an identification of the other person in the photo as someone named Doolittle but he doesn't have a source for it. I have looked up that name in Evans and Evans and Man and Legend and no one by that name is in the index. Has anyone seen this picture before?

Posted on Nov 7, 2009, 8:19 PM

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Black and White 731 036/037

by

The photo is also on the inside of this Black and White double LP which came out in the early 80's. It's a French import entitled "The Bix Beiderbecke Legend" and was issued in the US by RCA. It contains many key recordings Bix made for Victor during his career.

The caption under the photo reads "Doolittle et Bix, Lake Forest Academy (1922)." The source for the photo is not listed.

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 9:57 AM

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Photo of Bix and friend at Lake Forest?

by

This photo was also reproduced in the inside cover of the French RCA double-LP "The Bix Beiderbecke Legend" (Vol. 30/31 of the "Black And White" LP series: 731 036/037). This album was issued c. 1974-75 I believe.
It is labelled" "Doolittle et Bix, Lake Forest Academy 1922"

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 1:36 PM

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The double lp came out in 1971

by

I think the French RCA double lp came out in 1971 because it was reviewed in Micrography magazine in December, 1971 on page 3. Micrography magazine listed the correct take numbers for titles on the lp's that had incorrect take numbers. Tim said at the time this double lp was issued it caused a big stir because it supposedly contained previously unissued alternate takes of Goldkette and Whiteman recordings when in fact it didn't.

Posted on Nov 8, 2009, 5:41 PM

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Speaking of Bix photo

by Gilbert M. Erskine

I've been ill, and am currently in a adult facility until I regain my strength.

I greatly enjoy the discussions on the wonderful Bix photo (Doolittle? Stewart?) and would like to point out that these discussions are essential in arriving at the final date, location, and identity of Bix' friend.

Along this line, I'm wondering now if that photo of Bix that Bill Saunders in New Jersey got from Howdy Quicksell's widow has ever been published. It shows Bix and a friend, obviously on tour in the South with either Goldkette or Whiteman, posing with a black who is a spitting imgage of King Oliver. He wasn't Oliver, of course, since Quicksell said he was an empolyee of the hotel where they were staying. But I think it quite remarkable that Bix would set of a photo of himself with a black. I might add that my memory of the photo was that the black did not look too pleased to be photoed with whites in the vicious racial attitudes at the time in the South.

This photo was discussed on the Forum a couple of years ago, and I think Albert contacted Saunders, who got quite rude over the picture.

When I visited Saunders in New Jersey, he showed me the photo along with other Bix items he got from Quicksell's widow, including a Bix calling card identifying him as a member of the Paul Whiteman band. Saunders thought that this was the top prized item, and not the Bix photo.

If anyone has further information on this, please post.

Posted on Nov 9, 2009, 7:29 AM

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Another mystery Bix photograph

by

This is the first time I've become aware of this particular photograph's existence. Why did it not appear in the Man & Legend or Evans & Evans biographies? Even in a poor photocopy format? It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has seen this photo with any more details of the approximate date it was taken. I seem to remember when Man and Legend was being produced, some relevant photos weren't included on account of the owners asking too high a price for inclusion.

Posted on Nov 9, 2009, 11:12 AM

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bix photo-

by mkaroub



Posted on Nov 10, 2009, 4:41 PM

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No text? No image?

by

Mike, Your post has no content. Please, post again.

Thanks.

Albert



Posted on Nov 12, 2009, 4:42 AM

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Gilbert, my best wishes ....

by

.... for a speedy and complete recovery!.

Bill Saunders was very secretive and did not want to share any of his material about Bix. I remember that way back I called him and asked him, just as a simple courtesy on my part, permission to post a short review of his articles about Bix in Lake Forest Academy. He was upset that someone (Rich Johnson?)  had given me his phone number, and he did not want to talk. As a said, it was a courtesy on my part. Once anyone publishes an article in the open literature, reviews can be written and published without permission from the author.

Too bad that some strange (and others who are nasty as well as liars) individuals are attracted to the field of Bixology.

Albert



Posted on Nov 12, 2009, 1:15 PM

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Vacation

by

I will leave tomorrow morning, Nov 3 and will return late in the evening on Nov 11.

Please be patient with your postings. I will check the forum from time to time and will upload what you send. It may be several hours between the time you write your posting and the time it appears on the forum page.

For Vince: I just got a message from the Interlibrary Loan Department. The copy of "What A Life, I'm Telling You" by Eddie Leonard is ready to be picked up. I doubt that I will be able to get the book  this afternoon. Most likely, I will get it on Nov 12 and will report. 

Enjoy yourselves.

Albert



Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 11:45 AM

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Re Vacation

by

Enjoy your vacation.

Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 1:01 PM

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Thanks, Rob.

by

I appreciate your wishes. See you next week.

Albert



Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 1:59 PM

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Peggy English's Hot Backup Band

by Professor Hot Stuff

Does anyone know who's in the backup band on this Peggy English record? They sound good.
http://www.archive.org/details/PeggyEnglish-HighHighHighUpInTheHills

Posted on Nov 1, 2009, 7:55 PM

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Indeed, they sound - and are good!

by

According to Rust, we have Red Nichols, t; Rube Bloom, p; Eddie Lang, g; ?Joe Tarto, sb. Recorded Jan 6, 1927. All with close connections to Bix! Peggy is credited as "comedienne." Here is the pertinent section form Ray Mitchell's excellent Eddie Lang Discography.

[linked image]

There is an excellent web page about Peggy English in Dave Garrick's great website.

http://www.jazzage1920s.com/peggyenglish/peggyenglish.php

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 2, 2009 3:59 AM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 2, 2009 3:59 AM

Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 3:57 AM

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Re: Indeed, they sound - and are good!

by Professor Hot Stuff

Thanks for that info. It sounded like Red but I wasn't sure. Does anyone know where I can hear the flip side, How Long Must I Wait For You?

Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 4:25 PM

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bing internet museum gone for good?

by hal smith

They say it's being rebulit or did Crosby family take it off?http://community.mcckc.edu/CROSBY/bing.htm

Posted on Nov 1, 2009, 3:53 PM

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Try ....

by

http://web.archive.org/web/20080429184623Some of the links are active.

I don't know what happened.

Albert

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 2, 2009 3:25 PM

Posted on Nov 1, 2009, 4:34 PM

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Don Murray

by

Thanks to the generosity of Nick, I just uploaded a 12-page article about Don Murray, "Don Murray - The Early Years (1904-1923)" by Warren Plath. Published in Storyville 122. Here is the link to the Articles in Magazines page.

http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/%7Ealhaim/ArticlesinMagazines.htm#DonMurray

Thanks, Nick. Fascinating article.

Albert



Posted on Nov 1, 2009, 12:50 PM

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Re: Don Murray

by

What a fabulous article. It's so interesting to get such background on Don's early days.

The musical discussion aside, it just presses my point that these nice boys from decent families weren't "driven to drink" because of some underlying emotional problem -- any of these good decent boys very often just got hooked on the bootleg hooch that everyone was drinking -- everyone carried a pocket flask because of Prohibition; every young man In with any crowd was going to drink because it was the cool thing to do to defy the law; despite the raw taste and chemical adulterations the booze made them feel good, have an even better time, really get into their music -- and before they knew it, they were dangerously heavy drinkers prone to mishap, like Don, or alcoholics like Bix (a very fine line of differentiation, if that) with the ensuing fatal results in both cases.

Maybe articles like this can shut those nay-saying biographers and jazz critics up once and for all with their assumptions that Bix was "a strange duck" "a weird guy" "a fish thrashing on dry land" and that some deep, dark, horrible psychological problem drove him to drinking. Don was just as clever, likeable, and popular as Bix was both as a youth and adult; couldn't stick to getting good grades when the music beckoned him any more than Bix could; just had to get out there and use his talent to express himself artistically with the brand-new exciting music that was around -- just like Bix.

If they aren't saying Don had learning disabilities, why assume it about Bix's poor school grades? They don't say Don had to drink to struggle against repressed homosexuality, or, God forbid, pedophilia, or a disapproving family, or a father who hated him, so why say such stuff about Bix? Like Don, Bix was a talented kid who like to have fun, grew into a talented guy who liked to have fun; was, of course, the innovative genius whereas Don was a good creative musician, but these are two nice guys from religious, even devout, upper middle class midwestern families and this was the direction that jazz music and the popular past-times of the day -- heavy drinking unfortunately among them -- took them.

Sure the parents were concerned; they were worried, but that didn't turn into disapproving hatred for their sons. Sure the drinking got out of hand -- and if Don hadn't had his awful accident, would he, too, eventually have gotten so sick from the complications of eventual alcoholism, had to struggle against it, had to go through only temporarily successful rehab? Nowadays the Dons and Bixes could have been saved with medical and yes, psychological intervention; gotten proper treatment for that head injury of Don's and the right counseling and hospitalization for Bix, but 80 years ago that was how it was.

Great article, gorgeous pictures. I'd love to know more about the other Bix colleagues of the early days -- the rest of the Wolverines, for example, outside of Ralph Berton's family braggacodio lies. What about the fueding Bix and Dick Voynow eventually had? What became of that, did they ever reconcile a friendship? Why did Jimmy Hartwell slip into such blank obscurity -- okay, he wasn't the clarinetist Don Murray was, but no one knows anything except the vague biiographical reference by Chilton in 1972 that Hartwell died of asthma complications sometime in the 1940's -- doesn't anyone have anything more about him? Other Wolverines?

Laura



Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 8:41 AM

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wolverines

by m karoub

Laura's response as enjoyable as Murray article.-

Frankly way too many amateur psychologists weighing in on musicians, Bix especially.
Murray and Rank were excellent musicians,probably even more than that, always struck me that their most interesting work was on Bix and his gang. sides.

I once asked Duncan Scheidt about subsequent lives and adventure of the Wolverines.
and I remember some things i read over the years...

Al Gandee trb-became a milkman !!died 40s(he was not in the punk rock group 'THe dead Milkmen")

Hartwell took up string bass -asthsma related switch?
Voynow -w/Brunswick later Decca died L. A. early 40s-recorded post wolverines ..
Leibrook-w/arnold Johnson, Whiteman, NY freelance L.A free;ance (as a result on Bix's 1st and last record!) died 1944 survived by Jacqueline Leibrook..
Geo Johnson-mens clothing salesman tv and radio repair-(-see George's article in Frontiers of Jazz)
Bob Gillette --act w/shirley richards 30s song and dance-

gillette Moore and Johnson appeared to have stayed in touch into 30s ..based on Johnson correspondance to Ralph Venables

McPartland /Brunies well documented.
I think a great niece of either Vic Moore or Bob Gillette wrote to this forum--but I dont think there have been Wolverine children at Bix fest like the Goldkette connections.. - the pity is that these guys werent interviewed extensively...



Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 7:12 PM

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Voynow and Leibrook

by

I have the death certificates of Dick Voynow and Min Leibrook. Voynow died in 1944 and Leibrook in 1943 and both are in Forest Lawn Cemetery in Glendale, California. I posted a copy of one of their death certs, Voynow's, in a post here a couple of years ago.
Voynow's record collection partially ended up in local 2nd hand book stores in the Los Angeles area. Years ago Tim was searching a used book store in Pasadena, California and he found a Columbia Modern Music album set of Concerto In F and on the inside front cover was written in pencil "property of Dick Voynow". The album did not have all the 78's in the set. It was minus one or 2 of the 78's.
Another local collector is said to have found a similar album of 78s with the same "property of Dick Voynow" written in pencil on the inside front cover.

Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 11:16 PM

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Haunting the junk stores

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Ah, all the more reason to haunt junk shops, thrift stores, flea markets and the like. Of course out here in Pittsburgh we don't get a blasted thing from anyone "known" or "famous" at yard sales unless one counts local actors from George Romero horror movies, which are usually filmed here.

I keep hoping to stumble on something from a musican who touted through Pittsburgh and left behind something on a train or in a hotel room, and the battered book or record winds up at the flea market.

Laura

Posted on Nov 3, 2009, 9:26 AM

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They died early!

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Nope, not dead Milkmen, but sure dead Wolverines -- none of them lived far into their 40's if they were all born around the same time as Bix.

It certainly is is sad -- I bet those boys had such colorful stories to tell about themselves -- it didn't have to be all Bix anecdotes, but I'm sure they had some hilarious adventures with him anyway -- Ralphie Berton's book doesn't capture anywhere near the true story.

Laura

Posted on Nov 3, 2009, 9:20 AM

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Re: They died early!

by m karoub

yes Laura ralph was shady and fast and loose with the facts... what is interesting is that a major publishers brrought out "Remembering Bix" and "Bix man and legend"-which wouldnt happen now. iI saw ralphs 1st-
he thought he was Sandburg, Balliet and yes Harold Robbins rolled into one...
again a mor einformed well connected group today but smaller in number..

Posted on Nov 4, 2009, 9:25 AM

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Ralph Berton's "Remembering Bix"

by David Logue

Yes, I was shocked to learn later how erroneous Berton was with the "facts" in his story of Bix.

I was in college when I read it some twenty odd years ago, and thought it was such a great read that I was compelled to write Berton and express my appreciation for his book. He wrote me back, thanking me.

Although I initially learned of Bix in a history of jazz class in college, it was Berton's book that got me intrigued by Bix (no doubt by all those now debunked myths). His vivid "recreation" of the Jazz Age so moved me that I instantly became a fan of that period of time, as well as Bix. So I truly owe some bit of gratitude to him for broadening my interest in that era.

For "fiction", I have to say, it still is a great read. His blatant pretentiousness notwithstanding, Berton had a great way with words.

It's a shame that he didn't use his talent to make a more factual tome on Bix instead of choosing, at best, to simply not check his facts, or at worst, wrecklessly embellish his book with events that never took place.

Posted on Nov 5, 2009, 5:28 AM

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Ralphie's fiction

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Y'know, Ralphie could have made it a fictional novel about Bix and done great with it -- when readers are well aware of the fact that the author is taking liberal artistic license and just trying to re-create an aura of an era, as it were, then one can relax and appreciate the author's "interpretation" of how they feel about the historical/legendary person they are making a story about, a "what if" -- in the case of the novel 1929, "What if that secret last girlfriend of Bix's was really just a trashy a gangster's moll and not a rich, well-bred girl at all, and in the alcoholic haze of his last days he was inadvertently running around with mobsters and slumming with movie stars?" or in Laura Toops' Hudson Lake: "What if, while he spent that summer of 1926 with the Goldkette group as the house band at that at the tourist resort, Bix was juggling two socially disparate girlfriends (and inadvertently getting snarled up in trouble with bootleggers, gangsters, and the Ku Klux Klan)? And in the case of both novels, troubled worries over family disapproval as the catalyst seemed to be the "reason" for Bix's problem drinking, rather than the poor guy just being out-and-out physically addicted which was more likely the case.

I mean, realistically we're pretty sure from all accounts that of course aside from performing for the dance crowds nearly every evening, the busiest weekends being from the Chicago crowds, the Goldkette guys were just boozing it up, going swimming, and their biggest adventures consisted of scouting out bootleg hooch or bonking with slutty Crystal Hawkins, but how many novels is one going to get out of hangovers, the car breaking down, nagging one another to take a bath, and the sloppy dirty cabin? It had to be a hell of a fun summer for those guys and no doubt replete with hilarious half-remembered anecdotes as they stumbled around in an inebriated haze and made scads of gorgeous music, but an entire book can't be about Bix hunched over the battered piano composing In a Mist, taking horn solos before the cheering crowd on the dance floor, or pushing his stalled car back from the hillbilly sisters' illegal still. Thus, the reason to embellish a novel and call it that. In Ralph Berton's case, however, he had the blatant audacity to refer to his book as a biography, and suckered most of us at first reading to think that it actually was, if we hadn't gotten to the REAL Bix bios yet, or happened to read it years ago when Sudhalter's was just getting published around the same time (late 1974) and was the "only other Bix book" available. Just like Hoagy Charmichael sadly and angrily protested at the appearance of Ralph's book: "That's not the Bix I knew!" -- and which one of the bandmate/friends wanted to go find Ralph and beat the crap out of him after Remembering Bix appeared, he was so incensed at the untruths and the defamation of Bix's personality? I'd heard about several references to that. Even the contemporary book reviewers were startled to find Bix depicted as a sullen, laconic, foul-mouthed backward hayseed [who had to be led around and socially instructed by a jaded thirteen year old boy] instead of a well-brought-up all-around nice guy with enough wit, however self-depcrecating or sarcastically disparaging at times, to fend for himself?

Ralph should have truthfully written as himself as the tag-along appendage he was to Bix, not the other way around. How he got an entire book out of what was probably initially, "Hi, kid," is boggling to the imagination.

Posted on Nov 5, 2009, 12:24 PM

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Re: Ralphie's fiction

by mkaroub

enjoyable post- Laura you write the liner notes next time .really much enjoyed!
no doubt hudson Lake and Gary Indiana gigs featured a lot of partying.. Bix is portrayed by Berton as an idiot savant.(crystal meth Hawkins i always thought was made up by suds(he wished) just as he made up a fake son for some gal Bix went to high school with.. did he want a son too?
total 70s era book as evident by b.s fake pop psychology and lurid details- sudhalter also plays fast and loose with facts and engages in some pop psych and intimate details equally erroneous as it turns out.

there would have been plenty of people 64-70 years of age in 19 70-74 that saw, chatted with heard danced to wolverines -not even retired yet credible witnesses-neither book was aimed at jazz scholars specifically-Evans and later Lyon of course were but earlier books wracked up sales ..
much more historical accuraccy beginning in 80s

Posted on Nov 5, 2009, 9:30 PM

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Ralphie's Overwrought Imagination

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Thanks for the compliment -- I am touched. I've always gone around thinking liner notes on recordings were only supposed to be done by musicans or "real" established music critics (grin).
And hey, since I love to babble endlessly about people's personalities and figure that one's emotional makeup is the standing honest reason for the artistry of that person, it's always important to me to know the authentic background of a talent whom I admire.

I, too, disapprove of Sud's hangups which he tranferred onto Bix -- supposedly having a cold father who disliked him; a worriedly disapproving mother and sister; a disdainful and distant brother who didn't have a clue musically -- and in his book, Ralphie even calls Burnie "Charlie", for God's sake!!!!. When one reads the warm, funny letters of Bix to his family -- and if only he'd saved what his family wrote to him, but we do have a lot of Burnie's kind and humorous notes -- we see how loved he was.

So many weird and nasty aberrations were attributed to poor Bix which just didn't add up. So this was supposed to be a guy who as a teenager had once molested a little girl, all his adult life had homosexual tendencies and regularly got beaten up for crusing for rough trade, yet got at least one girlfriend pregnant and forced her to have an abortion. His father supposedly hated him and "banished" him from Davenport, even though Bix would, the way the biographers put it, periodically and shamefacedly crawl home to recuperate from illnness and drunkeness. It's so unfair, and then there's authors who either darkly hint at deep shameful secrets or out and out lie that the Bix the yokel was swept into a "fling" with the Berton's gay brother per the grand announcement of Gene immediately after Bix's demise.

Instead of seeing things for what they were -- a police report on a vengeful, maybe feuding guy's dropped charges of the accusation of uttering something dirty to a child; long-ago high school friends noting Bix "not being around girls much, preferred music"; band photos of physically affectionate guys posing with arms around one another for the camera the way all young guys did in those days; being close-mouthed about his intimate life despite the mention of going with this girl and that and reminisces of friends who had double-dated with him; his 8-month-long relationship with Ruth slandered into her creeping to some back alley (what "understanding doctor" was going to help some little working class farm girl/secretary in those days, anyway?) to rid herself of his illigetimate child, and finally, being "rolled for his dough" and his literally crippling alcoholism leading to the speculation that guys Bix was supposedly attempting to pick up were beating the crap out of him. Not to mention he was stupid, backward, and crazy and that's why he failed in school, his family hated him, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Why do "biographical" writers and certain jazz critics insist on making Bix's life full of lurid, tawdry speculation when we've got the real evidence from Rich Johnson, Jerry Bowers, Phil and Linda Evans, and what Scott Black's researching and working on from Phil's files? Bix's real story is assuredly fascinating enough and his alcohol addiction, ill health and demise certainly tragic enough without embellishment or lies. His music wasn't screaming with anguished pain, it was played with classy restraint, elegant elation, and innovative creativity -- why else do listeners so explicitly hear and feel the joy? This was a happy, at least a once-happy, person with a lot of friends. His enemy and his tragedy was the booze and failing health, and we can accept or not accept the theory that there was frustration over him perhaps thinking he couldn't get out all the music that was in his head, possibly feeling he wasn't always able to play it or have it written down the way he dreamed of. Those are items to legitimately speculate about, not the lies and slander. If one wants to put out a what-if novel of just-suppose fiction, fine -- only don't call it a biography and insist that's how it really was.

God, Ralphie was such a fake that he even gives Bea Palmer a SOUTHERN ACCENT. Her family was Swedish-American!



Posted on Nov 6, 2009, 9:54 AM

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Re Remembering Bix

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This Forum should, quite rightly, give everyone a chance to put forward their views and thoughts on the subject of Bix, his life and music. But, although somewhat undemocratic, is it not time to bar the name Berton from these pages? To many readers the mention of that name leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. Any information put down in print regarding the Berton family is of no interest to me. I got through a few pages of "Remembering Bix" when it was first published, could not continue and relegated the book to its rightful place in the rubbish bin.

Posted on Nov 6, 2009, 5:07 PM

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Bix & The Birth (and Death) of the Cool

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I thought I would give you all a heads up on a book to be published this month that features a chapter on Bix Beiderbecke: "The Birth (and Death) of the Cool" by Ted Gioia. The book is about the cultural aesthetic of cool, and the promotional materials give you the gist of his argument: "Gioia deftly argues that what began in the Jazz Age and became iconic in the 1950s with Miles Davis, James Dean, and others has been manipulated, stretched, and pushed to a breaking point -- not just in our media, entertainment, and fashion industries, but also by corporations, political leaders, and social institutions." In short, Gioia argues that cool is dead.

For the purposes of this site, however, more interesting is his argument that this idea of cool, in many respects, began with Bix. In fact, Gioia calls Bix "The Progenitor of Cool," suggesting that "he captivates our attention, not just for his artistry, but also because so much in Bix anticipates the future." In particular, Gioia focuses on Bix's "self-destructive rise and fall" and "the remarkable malleability of his life," which Gioia in part suggests is manifested by his ability to break through the various constraints of his life. Gioia writes that these include being born in Iowa (not that I, personally, see this as much of a constraint!), being of poor health, receiving poor grades, having a poor work ethic, not learning to read music very well, drinking too much, etc. As a jazz musician, Bix "reinvented his life in stylish, sometimes outrageous ways on the largest stage imaginable."

He became an idol, Gioia writes, and was often baffling and mysterious to those around him.

Gioia also pays considerable attention to Bix's music, arguing that it's through his playing that his "role as progenitor of the cool is most assured."

I think that Gioia is also most assured when writing about Bix's music. He is a musician himself and a music historian of some note, having published a well-regarded history of jazz and, more recently, a history of the Delta Blues. I'm not sure I entirely buy his argument about Bix, however. On the one hand, I love the idea of looking at Bix through this lens of the cool. I think for reasons Gioia writes about and several more he doesn't, Bix indeed ought to be seen as a progenitor of the cool; on the other hand, there ought to be a caveat attached to this: I think Bix the Legend, apart from Bix the Real Person (whoever that really is), ought to be seen as the cool one. Gioia writes that Bix became an idol, the sort of person people told stories about, embellishing an everyman into a legend. This legend, I think, is the figure that anticipates the likes of James Dean.

But I'm curious to know what you guys think. In the meantime, you can find an excerpt of Gioia's book on his site, Jazz.com:

http://www.jazz.com/jazz-blog/2009/10/28/the-birth-and-death-of-the-cool

And here is an interesting review:

http://brothersjudd.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/reviews.detail/book_id/1737/The%20Birth%20%28a.htm

Posted on Nov 1, 2009, 11:38 AM

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Lots of discussions of Bix as progenitor of

by

"cool jazz" since 2001. Just search under "cool jazz". I, for one, do not think that Bix's style is "cool" in the sense of what is known today as "cool jazz."

Albert



Posted on Nov 1, 2009, 1:58 PM

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Re: Lots of discussions of Bix as progenitor of

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Thanks, Albert. I'm sure that's true, and I remember a few of those discussions. But Ted Gioia's argument is more than just "cool jazz." He writes of Bix as the progenitor of "cool" period.

I'm no musician or music critic, so I always worry about having an opinion on things like this, but I wonder if it is necessary for Bix to have played what specifically came to be known as cool jazz for him to be an important precursor to the music.

Posted on Nov 1, 2009, 2:21 PM

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The Birth of the Cool 1927

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...is the title of an essay by Len Weinstock in redhotjazz:

http://redhotjazz.com/coolarticle.html

Emrah

Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 6:20 AM

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All very interesting

by

However, I agree with your observation that it is Bix's LEGEND and probably not who he was as a person, which might have been an inspiration for some of the traits and posturing of what later became known as "the cool". I wonder if one can make that same observation about Young, Davis, James Dean, the various Beats the book reviewer mentions, and others. In other words, what became known as "the cool" took on a life of its own, using various cultural icons as inspiration, and left reality behind.

To me, Bix doesn't fit with the pattern of "cool". I don't interpret him as being self-absorbed to the degree necessary to fit the pattern. Maybe the pattern didn't exist yet. I mean, the Roaring Twenties are not exactly "cool" in my book. They're definitely hot. Maybe then Bix was pre-cool. Maybe it is because Bix was an inspiration to Young, who genuinely seems to fit the cool pattern to me, that Bix gets credit as being the progenitor. Maybe then we can call Louis Armstrong and Nick LaRocca the true progenitors, those two being two of Bix's acknowledged inspirations? I don't think so.

Posted on Nov 2, 2009, 2:38 PM

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Re: All very interesting

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I agree with you agreeing with me, Alberta! I suspect that Bix the man was not the cool cat that Gioia's argument makes him out to be. But I'm not sure the same holds true for Lester Young, Miles Davis, and James Dean. You mention self-absorption as being an element of "the cool": well, these guys were at the very least self-aware. Take Prez's whole patois, for instance, or Miles's dress, or pretty much everything about Dean. In large part they created their images of themselves and so were complicit in their own coolness. (I'm no expert on any of these guys, though. If I have them wrong, please tell me.)

Anyway, I'm not convinced that Bix cultivated any such sense of himself. Mezz Mezzrow took on the cool cat persona, and Gioia quotes an anecdote from "Really the Blues" about Bix drinking on the train tracks. As with many such stories, it's tough to say whether it's true, and it may fit in with some ideas we have of Bix and not with others. What we do know, I think, is that it corresponds perfectly with Mezz's idea of what a cool musician was supposed to be like and to some what extent what he himself tried to be like -- aloof, mysterious, and totally wrapped up in his bottle (or weed) and in his art.

That could have been Bix to a T, but how can we know when the storytellers are such notable embellishers as Mezz and Hoagy and Eddie Condon?

Still, I think Bix absolutely was a progenitor of cool, so long as we say that the Bix Beiderbecke we're talking about is Bix the legend and not the man: Mezz's Bix and Hoagy's.

Gioia's an interesting writer and thinker, and a jazz historian with chops. His book is worth checking out.

Posted on Nov 3, 2009, 5:23 AM

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Bix Beiderbecke, RKO Recording c.1928

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Chapter 4 of "The Bungalow: The Production of A Global Culture" by Arthur D. King begins with a quote from the lyrics of "Our Bungalow of Dreams."

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

[linked image]

 

Credit is given to Bix on an RKO recording.  Interesting, because the recording was made by Frank Trumbauer and His Orchestra for OKeh.

 

"Our Bungalow of Dreams" was also recorded by  the Broadway Bell-Hops on Dec 23, 1927

 

http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/bellhops/ourbungalow.ram

 

Who is the trumpet soloist after the vocal? And the trombonist who follows the trumpet player?

 

Is there a reissue of the Bix and Tram Our Bungalow of Dreams recording on an RKO label?

 

Albert



Posted on Nov 1, 2009, 5:37 AM

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Is there no end to the idiocies of Eekhoff?

by

In another of his mass mailing filled with errors and falsehoods, Eekhoff writes,

 

"Another uneducated question by the Litte [sic] Professor:

 

"Is there a reissue of the Bix and Tram Our Bungalow of Dreams recording on an RKO label?"

 

Mr. Haim - there is no such a thing as an "RKO label".  RKO was a Hollywood film studio;they did not produce commercial records.

Why can't you, for once, find something out for yourself instead of blindly asking stupid questions?

 

Hans Eekhoff

 

Eekhoff is so anxious to prove me wrong, that he goes into a frenzy without even bothering to do a little googling.

 

Yes, Eekhoff, there was such a thing as RKO records.

 

From

 

http://www.bsnpubs.com/nyc/rko/rko-unique.html

 

"Unique Records started life as Unique Records in New York City in 1955.  It was first located at 1697 Broadway.  By 1957, the label was acquired by RKO Teleradio Pictures, Inc., and had moved to 1440 Broadway, where it was billed as RKO-Unique.  In November, 1958, the label headquarters moved to 11-17 E. 45th Street in New York, where it operated until the label closed up shop in 1960."

 

There are lots of web pages with information. Not only is Eekhoff hopelessly ignorant, but he does not even bother to do a little research. Of course, without doing any reading or research, he ends up making a spectacle of himself, as was the case recently with his laughable claim of a discovery of a Trumbauer vocal.

 

What a sad and pathetic life that guy must lead. Lurking the forum with the hope of finding something he can write about to dozens of people. Eekhoff should stop wasting everybody's time with his ridiculous mass mailings.

 

Albert Haim

 

Just to show the unbelievable extent of Eekhoff's  ignorance, there is a also a French label called "RKO Records."

 

From http://www.rkorecords.fr/

 

"RKO records est un label indépendant de créations musicales originales, créé en 1989 par Dom Kevarkoff, Fred Kerdekachian, JP, et Ian Doray. "





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 1, 2009 9:15 AM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 1, 2009 9:14 AM

Posted on Nov 1, 2009, 9:13 AM

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John Wilson, critic for the New York Times, had impeccable taste.

by

[linked image]

[linked image]

 

Let's listen to John Wilsons favorite Bix recordings.

 

Whiteman's Mississippi Mud

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/rama/VIC41696-3.ram

 

Goldkette's My Pretty Girl

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/VIC37587-1.ram

 

Bix's In A Mist

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/rama/OKE81426-B.ram

 

Even after repeated listening, these recordings sound so fresh!

 

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 31, 2009 2:29 PM

Posted on Oct 31, 2009, 2:27 PM

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Vissla till Bix is the title of a ....

by

....  youtube video response to Lisa's "Singin' the Blues" video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raZm-uxcVdA&feature=response_watch

Thanks to Lisa for alerting me to this inferior (see below) response to her magnificent video.

Someone whistles over Bix's solo (and Eddie's guitar accompaniment) and speeds up the piece without changing pitch.

The whistler gets the notes right, but in my opinion, this is the desecration of a masterpiece. I wish the person had used his/her own acccompaniment. Then, I would not have complained, I would have praised the skill of the whistler.

I know some of you will be p .... at my opinion. [As Clint said in his film "Dirty Harry", "Opinions are like a..., everybody has one"] .We went through something similar in the case of Bix Beiderbecke's "Sorry" with Tsugaru shamisen superimposed over the original recording. The same person did it also with "Since My Best Gal Turned Me Down.." I wish people would leave the masterpieces alone.

Albert



Posted on Oct 31, 2009, 1:20 PM

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Re: Vissla till Bix is the title of a ....

by mkaroub

shamesin--he gets all the notes! and really knows the recording-had he done so w/guitar accompaniment and not playing along w/record ,I might have found it more tasteful

the whistler- if he really recorded it at that speed he has chops to burn! i suspect it is sped up after the fact, not unlike Alvin and the Chipmonks .
talented though...

Posted on Oct 31, 2009, 7:30 PM

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Traveling Blues

by Enrico Borsetti



The Life and Music of Tommy Ladnier.
by Bo Lindström and Dan Vernhettes

Foreword by Frank Driggs

Published by JazzEdit in a limited edition of 500 copies 216 pages, English text, 302 illustrations, of which many have never been published before.

Format: 26 cm x 28,5 cm, offset quadri

Available in October 2009 at a cost of 40 euros per copy (mailing in addition) on www.jazzedit.org or directly at jazzedit@sfr.fr or by telephone at 00 33 (0)1 46 70 24 01
Also at Bolm@telia.com (+46 8 6268066)

Indeed, Tommy Ladnier deserved a book. This exceptional work, the result of a long collaboration between the authors, is presented in a lively lay-out. Traveling Blues is a beautiful book and a work of reference.

...This remarkable book is loaded with details on the lives of Tommy Ladnier and most of the people he played with. There are hundreds of illustrations, photos of people Ive never even seen before and Ive
seen most of the photos of jazz musicians over the past fifty years. The depth of research is I believe unparalleled. God bless the two fanatics
who have devoted so much of their time and energy to bring this work of love to fruition.
Frank Driggs,
June 2009

TABLE OF CONTENTS
Acknowledgments 3
Foreword by Frank Driggs 5

Chapter 1 Louisiana colonization 9
Chapter 2 St. Tammany and Mandeville 17
Chapter 3 The Ladnier Family 23
Chapter 4 Childhood and early musical life 31
Chapter 5 Early Chicago Days 1917-1921 39
Chapter 6 Professional jobs and life in Chicago 45
Chapter 7 Paramounts King of Blues 61
Chapter 8 The First European Tour 83
Chapter 9 The Fletcher Henderson Days 111
Chapter 10 Job-Hopping in Europe 131
Chapter 11 With Noble Sissle 153
Chapter 12 Bechet and the Southern Tailor Shop 163
Chapter 13 Last Days with Panassié and Mezzrow 173
Chapter 14 Tommy Ladnier remembered 199

Discography 204

Index 211

Music index 215

As an option we offer a CD containing the 189 recordings (in mp3 format) in which Tommy Ladnier took part.

Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 3:59 PM

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Preview of the Book

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Two consecutive issues of the IAJRC Journal, June and Sep 2009,  carried one chapter ("Tommy Ladnier's Fletcher Henderson Days, 1926-27.") of the book "Traveling Blues: The Life And Music of Tommy Ladnier" by Bo Lindström & Dan Verhettes.

[linked image]

I commented on the section in the June issue in

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1242946853/

An excellent biographical and discographical account with great graphics. You can find additional excerpts in

http://www.jazzedit.org/Traveling-blues.html

At the time of the publication in the IAJRC Journal, the authors were seeking a publisher. Obviously, in the interim, they went for self-publishing, which is becoming more and more prevalent.

One of the great innovations is the offer of a CD containing mp3 files of all 189 recordings of Tommy Ladnier. I think this is the way to go in the publication of musicians' biographies. After all, music is the essence of the life of a musician.

Albert

PS Program WBIX # 21 consisted of   Recordings by Fletcher Henderson's Orchestra with Tommy Ladnier and Joe Smith. Here is the link

http://bixography.com/wbix21.ram





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 31, 2009 3:52 AM

Posted on Oct 31, 2009, 3:37 AM

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WBIX # 168 has been uploaded

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 Radio Program # 168. (loaded on 10/29/09)   Bix's Fellow Musicans: Lennie Hayton, part 2. (part 1 is  # 114) 60.54 min

Real Audio      

http://www.bixography.com/wbix167.ram   Download file.   14.9 MB   

mp3 files  

Streaming mp3 file http://bixography.com/wbixmp3/wbix168.m3u

Download file     58.5 MB

My Blue Heaven.
Don Voorhees and His Orchestra. Sep 9, 1927. Vocal by Lewis James.
Baby's Blue.
Don Voorhees and His Orchestra. Sep 10 1927. Vocal by Irving Kaufman (as Frank Harris)
Riverboat Shuffle. Red Nichols and His Five Pennies. Aug 15 1927.
Ecccentric,
Red Nichols and His Five Pennies. Aug 15 1927.
Five Pennies. Charleston Chasers. Sep 6, 1927.
Sugar Foot Strut. Charleston Chasers. Sep 6, 1927. Vocal by Craig Leitch.
Mine All Mine. California Ramblers. Dec 15, 1927. Vocal by Ed Kirkeby, Sammy Fain and Artie Dunn.
Changes. California Ramblers. Dec 15, 1927. Vocal by Ed Kirkeby, Sammy Fain and Artie Dunn.
Rain. Don Voorhees and His Orchestra. Sep 7, 1927. Vocal by Irving Kaufman.
Dawning. Don Voorhees and His Orchestra. Sep 7, 1927. Vocal by Irving Kaufman.
Feelin' No Pain. Red Nichols and His Five Pennies. Aug 15 1927.
Ida, Sweet As Apple Cider. Red Nichols and His Five Pennies. Aug 15 1927.
Contemporary Musicians: Dick Hyman plays "Candlelights" from his CD "Thinking About Bix," Reference Recordings CRR116.

WBIX #169 will be uploaded on Nov 27, 2009.

Albert



Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 6:09 AM

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Was Bix sloppy?

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You find many references to Bix's sloppy personal habits and carelessness with his grooming. Maybe, but in all photos of Bix (professional or amateur snapshots) he is invariably well dressed (formal or informal) and, this is the point I want to emphasize, his hair is neatly cut and combed. A notable example is found  in a recent photo (well known already) in 1.bp.blogspot.com  Bix in Lake Forest Academy, 1921 or 1922.

[linked image]

Albert

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 30, 2009 5:33 AM
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Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 5:27 AM

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Bix Close-Up

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Bix certainly had a nice complexion. A lot of young people even in their very late teens struggled with pimples or acne then as much as they do now (and kids didn't get to go to fancy dermatologists in those days the way everyone's pampered spawn seems to now.)

But that other close-up of a young adult Bix with the Wolverines -- remember that nice one you posted, Albert, in October of 2006? - the close-up of his face, in the photo where he is smiling down at the Tiger Rag record he's holding, taken in 1924 -- I also noted what clear skin he had.

He no doubt kept himself tidy and clean for girlfriends, family events, photo sessions -- Ruth Shaffner always insisted he was "immaculate" when she was interviewed(that 1972 radio show and in Evans and Evans and the new Davenport book), although I do wonder how a guy up all night jamming in a smoky dance hall could be completely immaculate, especially after having had a few nips of hooch behind the bandstand! But still, I think the sloppiness and hygiene lapses were probably just slobbing around with the guys after a drinking jag, or a long boozy recording session where "it didn't matter," and he didn't care about appearing shabby. Anyone could see in his childhood photographs how impeccably dressed and groomed he was by his mom, so the habits were instilled in him to slick up when he was supposed to.

He looks kind of sloppy in the October 1926 Goldkette tour "zoo" picture with the snake handler, where he's about to blow his horn and sitting cross-legged -- socks falling down, broken laces on dusty shoes, no cuff-links on his sleeves and a strand of hair loose from slicking it back. Actually it's charming and amusing -- he looks so jolly in that photo.



Laura





Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 11:07 AM

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An Occasional Lapse versus a Permanent State

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You are absolutely right, Laura. After a gig followed by an all-night drinking episode, I am pretty certain that musicians did no have their jackets on, and that, earlier in the evening, after their gig, they had untied their ties and unbuttoned their collars. And not just Bix, but probably most guys.

 

I agree with you that an occasional lapse is completely different than being sloppy, which is a permanent state of affairs for some individuals. As you said, Bix had a good upbringing and good habits are ingrained. So it is not surprising if, occasionally, a photo does not show Bix at his best. But I view these instances as infrequent departures from his normal good habits (as demonstrated by his neat appearance in most photos) rather than the manifestations of a sloppy individual.

 

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 30, 2009 2:51 PM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 30, 2009 1:58 PM

Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 1:55 PM

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A Big Deal?

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In his pathetic attempts to discredit me, Eekhoff goes into a tirade, both in mass mailings and in the yahoo Bix group, about my posting.

I used the word "all" in the phrase "in all photos of Bix." when I should have used, "most." Eekoff quotes two exceptions out of the dozens of known photos of Bix seen well-dressed and with neatly combed hair.

Further, Eekhoff makes he point that "The Little Professor apparently doesn't realize that Bix's sloppiness (as often described by several of his contemporaries) would be much more evident in his later life when Bix was a hardened alcoholic and cared less for his personal appearance. ".

Eekhoff is obviously unaware of reports of Bixs sloppiness in early stages of his life. For example, Fred Bergin, who managed the Blue Lantern in Hudson Lake, He cared nothing about his clothes. This is 1925. And Ralph Berton in Remembering Bix talks a lot about Bixs personal hygiene (or lack of it) and this was 1924.

Clearly, the reports of a sloppy Bix are not restricted to the last years of his life, as wrongly assumed by Eekhoff. And the photos certainly do not support the notion of a sloppy, disarrayed Bix. As usual, Eekhof writes foolish statements without bothering to check the facts.

Albert Haim

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 30, 2009 12:13 PM

Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 12:11 PM

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Bunny Plays Bix

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[linked image]

 

From the Victor Record Review (vol. 1, no. 9, p. 7).

 

[linked image]

 

I believe that this is a Victor publication, and therefore it is not surprising to see the amazing praise. Let me hasten to add that the praise is well deserved. Flashes is misspelled, as it is on the record sleeve and the record label.

 

Listen

 

In the Dark   http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/VIC030338.ram

 

Flashes         http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/VIC030169.ram

 

Davenport Blues    http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/VIC030170.ram

 

In A Mist    http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/VIC030168.ram

 

Candlelights     http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/rama/VIC030171.ram

 

The scan of the article comes through the courtesy of Rob. As I said in my earlier posting, forumites are among the most generous people on the planet. Thanks a lot, Rob.

 

Rob wonders if the "Bunny plays Bix" date arose to capitalize on the success of Dorothy Baker's novel. Interesting and plausible speculation. My speculation in my Bix piano article is somewhat different, although not contradictory. In fact, both interpretations could well be correct: an opportunity as well as a tribute. Here is a preview of what I wrote.

 

"Candlelights was first recorded by Bunny Berigan and His Men (Irving Goodman, t; Ray Conniff, tb; Murray Williams, Gus Bivona, George Auld, rds; Joe Lippman, p,a; Hank Wayland, sb; Buddy Rich,d)on Nov 30, 1938, Victor 26122.

 

On that day, the group also recorded In A Mist, Flashes, and  Davenport Blues. The next day, they recorded In the Dark. All of Bunny Berigan's recordings of Bix's compositions were collected in Bunny Plays Bix, a 1954 10-inch extended play 45 RPM album, RCA Victor EPAT-434.

 

Bunny Berigan's recordings of Bix's compositions must [on re-reading, a bit strong; could be viewed would be better] be viewed as a Berigan tribute to Bix. It is noteworthy, moreover, that Bunny Berigan included three of Bixs compositions (In A Mist, Flashes, and Davenport Blues) in his booklet Bunny Berigan Modern Trumpet Studies.

 

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 29, 2009 5:01 PM

Posted on Oct 29, 2009, 4:47 PM

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Re: Bunny Plays Bix

by m karoub

Berigan on college date w/ Bix -cant remember context.evidently the experience was meaningful to Berigan . Bunny plays Bix must have been the most complete collection of Bixs originals up to that time,-and to have lippman arrange(underrated!) lot of effort.
Berigan is superb on Jelly Roll Blues -his tpt solo is masterful story telling--did any jazz bands play Jelly roll blues after Jelly's own recording(during inter war years)? just 0M5, and years later Berigan.
Berigan paid beatiful tribute to Beiderbecke and Morton- on his own terms..

Posted on Oct 29, 2009, 8:08 PM

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Bix and Bunny in College Gigs

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Indeed, Bix and Bunny were together in college dates. In my Bix piano compositions article, I point this out.

"Bix and Bunny knew each other. They played the Senior Hop at <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Amherst College on March 14, 1931 with the Dorsey Brothers Orchestra. Other musicians in the band were Glenn Miller, Arthur Schutt and Carl Kress. According to the Amherst College student newspaper, The music was furnished by two bands, one led by Bix Beiderbecke who alternated with the Dorsey Brothers orchestra under the supervision of Tom Dorsey. The smaller of the two, Beiderbecke's, is considered one of the best five piece outfits in the country.[12] Bix and Bunny played again with the Dorsey Brothers orchestra at the Beta Theta Phi House, Yale University on May 15, 1931."

Albert

 



Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 5:58 AM

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Orchestral Recordings in the 1920s and 1930s of “Jelly Roll Blues/Original Jelly Roll Blu

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[linked image]

 

According to the doctor jazz web site,

 

On 22nd September 1915, Will Rossiter, the Chicago music publisher, copyrights ORIGINAL JELLY-ROLL BLUES. The registration number is Class E 372536 and the Catalogue of Copyright Entries lists this as for piano. Unfortunately the copyright deposit itself is missing, so we cant be sure whether this is the manuscript Morton produced when Henri Klickmann was unable to notate the piece, or the printed piano music. [MJR 150]

The illustrated cover of the published version is shown above as THE JELLY ROLL BLUES. In addition, Rossiter went on to publish a version of this for band and orchestra.

Mortons composition was recorded under both names, Original Jelly Roll Blues and Jelly Roll Blues. A terrific composition. The first time I heard it was by the Yerba Buena Jazz Band. Here is a list  of the orchestral recordings of the tune in the 1920s and 1930s.

 

Recordings as Jelly Roll Blues.

1. The first orchestral recording (either title) was, as you tell us, by the Original Memphis Five, Sep 22, 1923.

 

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/rama/EDI9173.ram

 

2. The next recording was by Lemuel Fowlers Washboards Wonders, Apr 6, 1926.

 

3. The California Rambles chimed in on Aug 12, 1927. Chelsea Quealey at his best, and, as noted by Ate van Delden in the liners for Timeless CBC-1090, a quote from Davenport Blues in the coda.

 

http://bixography.com/JellyRollBluesCalifRamblers.ram

 

4. Finally (for the 1930s) Bunny Berigan on Nov 22, 1938.

 

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/rama/VIC20-1502-A.ram

 

Recordings as Original Jelly Roll Blues.

 

Only one in the 1920s and 1930s, the definitive version by Jelly Roll Mortons Red Hot Peppers, Dec 16, 1926.

 

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/rama/VIC37256-2.ram

 

I noticed you recorded the tune with Jim Dapogny in the 1990s.

 

Enjoy the music, whether you heard these before or not. A great tune and terrific recordings.

 

Albert

 

 

 

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 30, 2009 12:24 PM

Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 10:55 AM

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The Exact Quote from Ate van Delden

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From the booklet with Timeless CD CBC-1090.

"A theme from Bix's Davenport Blues can be heard twice during Rollini's solo in Farewell Blues and again in the coda of Jelly Roll Blues.

Albert



Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 12:29 PM

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Mr Jelly

by m karoub

Rust not at hand -now I am curious about the CA Ramblers version and I thank you for pointing that out.I dont have the Chicago Jazz band version either but recollect the event...(!)
side note i once possessed the Edison of Jelly Roll by OM5.-Napoleon seemed to step all over clarinetist Lytell--did sudhalter write that Napoleon wasnt very taken w/either Bix or Louis in "Lost Chords?"-Napoleon would make some fine recordings but this isnt one of them ,

Posted on Oct 30, 2009, 1:36 PM

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Dance off both my shoes

by Russell Davies

It's curious that the "Jelly Roll Blues" didn't catch on as an "orchestral" item till the early twenties. It was apparently well enough known in 1917 to be mentioned in the lyric of Shelton Brooks' "Darktown Strutters' Ball". Or did the Leo Feist company have an interest, by then, in the "Jelly Roll Blues", and encourage Brooks to promote the number?
R.D.
PS: incidentally, is "gonna dance off both my shoes" the correct and original lyric? No two singers seem to render it alike. We have "wear out" the shoes, for example, and several other versions.

Posted on Nov 4, 2009, 1:51 AM

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lyrics

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From the 1917 sheet music:

I'm goin' to dance out both my shoes
When they play the "Jelly Roll Blues"
Tomorrow night at the Darktown Strutters' Ball.

Posted on Nov 4, 2009, 5:05 PM

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The First Improvised Piano Solo on a Jazz Record?

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According to Arthur Schutt's obituary in the Feb 2, 1965 isssue of the New York Times,

"His [Schutt's] chorus on Paul Specht's recording of "All Muddled Up" in 1922 is thought to be the first improvised paino solo ever recorded."

The recording can be heard on youtube,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg772soHXTs

According to Rust, "All Muddled-up" was recorded on Oct 11, 1922 by Paul Specht's Society Serenaders, .Frank Guarente-Donald Lindley-t/Ray Stilwell-tb/Harold Saliers-cl-bcl-as/Johnny ODonnell-cl-as/Frank Smith-cl-ts/Al Monguin-bsx-a/Arthur Schutt-p/Russell Deppe-bj/Joe Tarto-bb/Chauncey Morehouse-d. (three connections to Bix). The recording was issued on Col A-3740. Here is an image from Dave Garrick's terrific jazz age website.

[linked image]

According to

http://www.mgthomas.co.uk/dancebands/American%20Visitors/Pages/Paul%20Specht.htm

"The Specht band had come over here to play at the opening of the new Lyons Corner House in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Coventry St, London, and this establishment duly opened on May 30th, 1923. Variety for June 7th reported Paul Specht and his band opened at Lyons Cornerhouse (sic) Restaurant May 30 and were enthusiastically received. The restaurant has been packed continuously from morning until closing hour since the orchestra opened. Variety further reported on July 19thPaul Specht s band did 27 minutes in the vaudeville programme Monday at the Alhambra. Its selections rangedfrom pops to classics. The band got eight recalls and was a big success.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Although some recordings were made in London by the full orchestra, the title All Muddled Up was actually cut in America the previous year. Messrs. Lyons had a quantity of single-sided records made of this title. Bearing a special Lyons Corner House label, these were presumably on sale at the Corner House as souvenirs."

 

I believe the source for the information in the obituary about the first improvised solo comes from the Biographical Encyclopedia of Jazz by Leonard Feather and Ira Gintler. Do you think that the solo is improvised? How can one tell?

 

Albert  

 

 



Posted on Oct 28, 2009, 12:37 PM

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Part 2 of the BBC Goodman program ....

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.... is available now. Visit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nf0pm

Albert



Posted on Oct 28, 2009, 5:21 AM

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The Benny Goodman Obituary in the New York Times

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[linked image]

[linked image]

 

Albert



Posted on Oct 28, 2009, 10:39 AM

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