The Bixography Discussion Group

A vehicle for Bixophiles and other interested individuals to ask questions, make comments and exchange information about Bix Beiderbecke and related subjects. Any views expressed in the Bixography Forum represent solely the opinions of those expressing them and are not necessarily endorsed or opposed by Albert Haim unless he has signed the message.

I started archiving some of the threads that have been inactive for some time. The archived threads can be found at http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/archivesforum.htm

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Happy Birthday TD!

by David Sager

Some of the Hottest Trumpet Ever?

Happy Birthday to Tommy Dorsey -- born November 19, 1905.

On this 1937 recording, Pee Wee Erwin is the trumpeter at the start -- but not at the finish! The last ensemble chorus has no trombone, but rather, an unmistakeable Tommy Dorsey playing some absolutely wicked trumpet! Also, notice the trombone solo--according to Brian Rust, it is actually TD playing bone with a trumpet mouthpiece. I suppose -- if that is true -- that is what accounts for the intense, compact sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXcpeuBbTRk

Posted on Nov 19, 2013, 10:23 AM

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Ditto. Tom Dorsey: Trumpet Specialty.

by

[linked image]

Almost three minutes of Tommy on trumpet playing Tiger Rag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jh1rLOVjxc

On Nov 10, 1928 Tommy Dorsey waxed two sides in the OKeh studios in New York City. He was a trumpet soloist and was accompanied by Eddie Lang (g), Jimmy Williams 9sb), Stan King (d) in Tiger Rag.

For the flipside of OK 41178, It's Right Here for You, Tommy also had Arthur Schutt on harmonium. Listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEiVh_n5oZM

Five months later, on April 23, 1929, Tom Dorsey and His Novelty Orchestra (Eddie Lang, Frank Signorelli and Stan King) recorded two numbers playing trumpet: Daddy, Change Your Mind and You Can't Cheat a Cheater.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WAaZxf0zl4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSIzt26Fcag 

Tommy was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde: mellow, restrained on trombone and a wild man on trumpet.

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 19, 2013 12:06 PM

Posted on Nov 19, 2013, 12:05 PM

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one of dorsey's best

by hal smith

a great under rated songhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mqx8c5fkJs

Posted on Nov 19, 2013, 11:50 PM

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Re: one of dorsey's best

by David Sager

YES!! A marvelous song -- Matt Dennis? Should the title actually be "Whom can I turn to???"

Posted on Nov 20, 2013, 8:06 AM

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"Whom" ...

by John Leifert

...is sung by the grammatically correct Howard Dulany in the excellent Gene Krupa recording of this great Alec Wilder song:
http://www.secondhandsongs.com/work/117965

I can just picture Molly Ryan singing this (if she hasn't already!)

John L

Posted on Nov 20, 2013, 2:02 PM

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Re: "Whom" ...

by hal smith

john your my wives favorite singer. i'm not kidding, she says no one sing between the devil and the deep blue sea better then you .her all time favorite record.

Posted on Nov 21, 2013, 12:33 AM

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Thank you Hal !!

by John Leifert

I'm very happy to hear that! I don't sing too often these days, but whenever I can I jump at the chance. (Hal is referring to the VG & the Nighthawks "Cotton Club" album on which Vince and I sing).

BTW would enjoy talking with you again; I still have the same home phone and am usually home on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

John L

Posted on Nov 21, 2013, 7:56 AM

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Re: Thank you Hal !!

by hal smith

i got a few new phones in the past couple of years and lost all the numbers stored in them. if you can e- mail the number at bixo31@yahoo.com i'll appreciate it thanks hal

Posted on Nov 21, 2013, 11:58 PM

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Thanks Hal !

by John Leifert

Will do.

Best
John L

Posted on Nov 22, 2013, 9:58 AM

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Happy birthday TD

by

Don't forget the vocal by the wonderful Edythe Wright!

Posted on Nov 20, 2013, 3:45 PM

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How could I ?

by John Leifert

That was a superb Clambake Seven side Dave Sager posted; if I HAD heard that, it was so long ago that the memory of it had faded. Absolutely right that TD plays red hot trumpet near the end of the side. It's funny how Edythe inspires either love or hate, for some weird reason, but I've always enjoyed her singing; sort of a combination of blase-ness and warmth that is somehow very appealing.

The first Clambake Seven disc I ever found (actually, my father found it in a junk shop) was the scroll victor of "The Music Goes 'Round and 'Round" - I still have it. Great fun! I've never heard a Clambake Seven I didn't like - and it was the best with Bud Freeman present. You can never go wrong with Bud Freeman.

Jl

Posted on Nov 21, 2013, 8:18 AM

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Play about Bix on Radio 3. BBC

by

i am just listening to a very goof play on the BBC RADIO 3 called Bix: Singing The Blues by Robert Forrester about a fictionalised meeting between Armstrong and Bix.

It's very good and might still be available on line if you missed it.

Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 2:56 PM

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I beg to disagree.

by

I found the "conversation' between Louis and Bix grotesque, ludicrous, repulsive.

Albert

 



Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 3:27 PM

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So do I

by Malcolm Walton

To think that I rushed home from a gig to hear this garbage !! Whoever did the "research" wants putting up against a wall and shooting . I daresay this must have seemed like a "good idea" to some young uninformed scriptwriter. As I continued, against my better judgement, to listen I felt like bursting into laughter several times. The concept of Louis Armstrong sounding like a latter day rastafarian and using modern day street jive-speak was so ridiculous. Who, on this planet, has never heard Louis Armstrong speak? Furthermore we were treated to examples of Bix's music that were not in fact by Bix at all; even though introduced as such. I won't go on and on (although I could). Suffice to say that this should never be mentioned again on any Bix related forum, and thus deleted from our collective memorybank.
P.S. There was a lot of racial stereotying in evidence too. I cannot imagine anything remotely like that going on during the 1920s.

Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 8:29 AM

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All negative, nothing positive.

by

Bix was portrayed as a drunkard, child molester, his parents did not listen to the records he sent home, he drinks so much that he pisses in his pants, etc, etc. Why not have Bix talk about what he felt when he improvised his solos, his creative process when composing his piano pieces, the thrill of listening for the first time the recording of "Tiger Rag" by the ODJB, etc. etc. There is so much to tell about Bix's music, a real lost opportunity. A complete abomination. I can't believe that, with all the traditional jazz musicians and Bixophiles in England, the producers did not seek their advice.

Albert



Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 9:16 AM

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1, 2 ,3, testing

by

Test.

Albert



Posted on Nov 21, 2013, 2:56 PM

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Amazing Whiteman Re-Creation!

by

Bouncing around on the net last night, I stumbled upon the made-for-TV-movie "Child Star," a biography of Shirley Temple, from her conception to the end of her days at 20th Century-Fox. The whole thing is on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m4E6Jvhvh8

There is much remarkable about this picture, starting with young Ashley Rose Orr, who portrays Shirley, but I'm cutting to the chase: The period music, by Bill Elliott, which covers 1928 - 1942, is - despite all ravings to the contrary about latter-day re-creations - utterly pitch-perfect. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, starting with the very beginning of the picture. (0:00:00 - 0:02:00

It's 1928, and, in the background, gradually building up from a solo piano, we get a full-scale re-incarnation of the '28 Whiteman band, playing a peppy "Challis" arrangement, complete with solos by "Charles Strickfadden" and "Bix." It's not a transcription, either, but an original tune by Elliott, with a tip of the hat to "Lovable" and "Dardanella." The 16-bar "Bix" solo is sensational, and shows complete understanding of Bix's style.

The music keeps pace with the years, so by 1942, we're hearing pitch-perfect Swing.

So go watch this, already.


-Brad K



Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 12:50 PM

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I just watched the first few minutes.

by

You are right, Brad. Very authentic, and I am a stickler for recreations of 1920s music. Who is the guy that does the Bixian trumpet?

Albert



Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 1:17 PM

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Don't tell you both missed...

by

...the obvious nod to Davenport Blues. You just failed to mention it, right?

Right?

Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 6:30 AM

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Re: Amazing Whiteman Re-Creation!

by Frank van Nus


Wow, thanks Brad! Bill Elliott, Professor of Contemporary Writing and Production at Berklee, and leader of the Bill Elliott Swing Orchestra.... I suppose that explains the pitch-perfect Swing. And evidently, Mr. Elliott has more up his sleeve!

Watch Bill Elliott's Swing Orchestra rehearse, with the multi-talented Wayne Bergeron on a soaring lead trumpet (I believe I can hear him on the movie soundtrack too): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlAK-5QP8Ec

Speaking of Shirley Temple, here is Bill Elliott joining John Lithgow on a children's CD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUxQ4Pcx7G4

OKeh, just one more for good measure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGMJp-5ftwI

Frank


Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 6:02 AM

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Yea, Barb. Glenda? Laura?

by

Yes, the half-chorus cornet solo has cleverly woven into it quotes from "Davenport," and bits of Bix's improvisations on "Dardanella" and "Changes." Amazingly, it doesn't sound cobbled together, but rather like something Bix himself would have done. As you've pointed out in other posts, Bix "quotes" "Davenport Blues" in a recorded solo or two.

Again, this Whiteman moment - not to mention the solo - is thoughtful and exceedingly well worked-out, considering it's only a background score, not an on-screen feature for orchestra. The rest of the score is just as good. The picture premiered in 2001. Hasn't anyone noticed this in 12 years?

Where are Laura and Glenda, the verisimilitude police?


-Brad



Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 12:09 PM

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I Checked IMDB...

by

...(The Internet Movie Data Base), and in the over 40 reviews of "Child Star," there is not a single word about Bill Elliott's background score. I guess the satisfaction of a Job Well Done HAS to be its own reward!

-BK

Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 12:29 PM

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Haven't had time to watch it yet!

by Laura Demilio

But I'll get a look tonight --

Laura :D

Posted on Nov 19, 2013, 5:37 AM

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Re: Yea Barb!

by

I didn't catch the allusion to "Dardanella," but did catch the "Davenport Blues" touch!

Posted on Nov 19, 2013, 5:54 AM

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Oh blah, those AREN'T 1928 fashions!

by Laura Demilio

Ohhhhhkaaaay, picky picky picky picky picky Laura -- and sure, the music is swell, there's no doubt about it, but there's Mrs. Temple tap-dancing away in the pink nursery (and hey, weren't little Shirley's brothers TEENAGERS when she was born?!) in a long-skirted dress which was more 1921 than 1928 -- and the hair? Whipping that 1990's coif around like a shampoo commercial. Even middle-aged ladies bobbed their hair by 1928, or wore it up in a curled style which made it look as if it has been cut short. A stylish, upper middle class younger lady like Shirley's mommy -- and she wasn't very young since she had two quite grown boys already -- would have had the latest in dresses and how she fixed her hair.


Well, to be fair, really, once we got well into the 1930's, the hats, hairstyles, skirt lengths and all fashion were right up there in being right with the circa 1935-1940 times, like the music. And the little girl playing Shirley is a remarkable talent, indeed.

Favorite Shirley Temple movie: The Little Princess. Not only because I love the Frances Hodgson Burnett children's novel, but the movie is quite a harrowing social drama, from the cruelly snobbish school headmistress to the lowly scullery maid. (It also provided untold reams of satire fun for my family when they showed it on TV every Christmas Eve in Cleveland during the late 1960's, but that's another anecdote about my much-missed late dad and how he made us laugh.)

Posted on Nov 20, 2013, 9:21 AM

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Oh, Be-HAVE Yourself!

by

Okay, Miss Picky, so Gertrude Temple's hair looks like a Pantene hair commercial. Jeez, go please the world! That's a small cavil for everything else in this picture that came out right. If Venus de Milo had just one zit, I bet you'd send her to the hog farm.

-Brad K

Posted on Nov 23, 2013, 1:28 AM

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But BRAD --!

by Laura Demilio

C'mon! If they have the resources to properly research, then why don't they do it? Aren't there a lot of old-timey Shirley fans frenetically tap-dancing along to the TV when her movies are on? They want a movie about their icon to get it RIGHT.

And what fun is life if one cannot grumble and nit-pick about how historical and cultural details of their favorite era is represented? You guys sure do it about MUSIC!

I didn't shoot down their acting abilities or their physical appearances or their sheer talent. I just said at the very beginning of the movie they were in the wrong costumes and hairstyles. Anybody watching old Our Gang/Little Rascals films on TV as a kid would know how people looked back then. . . . which means those folks putting together a cute TV movie.

Let me have my grumpy fun!


Laura



Posted on Nov 25, 2013, 6:22 AM

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The Pony in the Manure

by

Okay, have your fun, already. Far be it from me to sleet on anyone's picnic.

But Laura, I'm so glad, in a movie of this type, that ANYTHING gets done right, I'm willing to overlook many another faux-pas. This Shirley Temple story could have been the worst turkey imaginable. I decided to watch it only out of morbid curiosity. But I was so shocked by the Whiteman / Bix moment at the beginning, that I forgave it everything, including Ma Temple's Toni Tenille hair-do.

I have this habit of seeking out the best in the worst. It affords me great joy to notice something sublime in the midst of mediocrity*. It's the Pony in the Manure Syndrome. You know that old joke? - - Where behavioral scientists experimented with this optimistic kid, putting him in a room full of horse manure? The kid gleefully dove in, flinging handfuls and yelling "Whoopee!!" "What are you so happy about?" they asked. He answered, "Well, with all this horse shit, there's gotta be a PONY in here somewhere!"

-Brad K

* e. g. "Deep Night" by Rudy Vallée and his Connecticut Yankees (Victor 21868)

Posted on Nov 25, 2013, 2:30 PM

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Re: Pony in the Manure

by Laura Demilio

And just because a movie or a TV show doesn't get it quite right doesn't mean I won't watch it. Some films and programs are absolute dreck, some may be off a bit but still fun to watch; some are so awful that they are great fun as camp. If a film, documentary or program is made in good spirit and kind intentions,hey, we'll enjoy it.

And I don't dispute for a moment that the music was lots of fun in that flick!


Laura

Posted on Nov 26, 2013, 5:46 AM

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Poo Pooing the Costuming

by

But Brad! I think you miss Laura's point a little. You may think the costume and hairdo are trifling details, and perhaps they are.

But it seems to me if they can be so meticulous about reproducing Whiteman's arrangement and Bix's solo, they could find a more authentic dress somewhere and stick a period wig on that actress's head for the few "baby Shirley" scenes, saving her bobbysoxer long waves for later in the film. After all, it was the first real scene in the movie to set the time and place--not a minor thing in the exposition.

It's as if Judy Garland climbed on that clang-clang-clanging trolley wearing flip-flops!


Posted on Dec 1, 2013, 3:51 PM

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Thank You, Glenda!

by Laura Demilio

I'm glad you championed me in what I was getting at. I can't help but suspect Brad liked to paint me as this termagant curmudgeon when I'm simply pointing out that if film-makers and TV production companies have the money to research the period culture background a little and "get it right", why don't they?

After all, you guys would all be burned to a crisp if they got the music wrong on any TV program or movie. I certainly know that.

(And I also bet that if a male complained on this site, there wouldn't be nearly the vituperative reaction. I'm not trying to bait you, Brad. But I can't help but notice I get ripped into little shreds whenever I venture an opinion. Coincidence?)


Laura

Posted on Dec 3, 2013, 10:21 AM

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I remember watching this...

by David Logue

...with my daughter when it was first shown on ABC, back when they used to show period bio pictures as family programming.

I remember seeing such films with John Ritter as L. Frank Baum (much earlier) and Jason Alexander as A.C Gilbert.

Man, I miss pre-reality TV.

Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 7:04 PM

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Alert: in about 90 minutes, Bix Singing the Blues on BBC Radio 3.

by

Mike Vaudwrey alerts me of a program about Bix. He writes, "10-00 p.m. tonight UK time (GMT) BBC Radio 3 is broadcasting a play called Bix : Singing(sic) The Blues by Robert Forrest described as a fictionalised version of the meeting between Bix and Louis Armstrong in Chicago(July ,1928 I believe). It includes original music composed and played by Iain Johnstone. This is no doubt timed to coincide with the London Jazz Festival which is being extensively covered by the BBC."

Here is the link to the BBC website with additional inflormation and a link to the live broadcast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03hk7r5

Thank you very much Mike.

Albert



Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 12:31 PM

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The myth goes on, unstoppable.

by

The myth that "perhaps his [Bix's] greatest tragedy was that he never got to play with the best - because in his view the best were black." continues, unstoppable. I guess Adrian Rollini, Eddie Lang, Frank Trumbauer, Don Murray, Joe Venuti, Steve Brown, etc. were not among the best. Come to think of it, they were lousy musicians. Bix was wasting his talent playing with them.

Albert



Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 12:53 PM

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Poor Bix!

by

Towards the end of the program, the character who plays Bix utters the words, "I pissed in my pants."

This is repugnant.

Albert



Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 4:02 PM

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Total fiasco ?

by

Having forced my way through the entire 90 minutes of this play including the brief documentary bits fore and aft I have to conclude that it is little short of character assassination so far as Bix is concerned. Robert Forrest (I think he has to be the one who is a screenwriter) must have done considerable research to assemble this chronologically jumbled mix of facts, discredited anecdotes, false opinions(e.g. the words put into Bix's mouth re Whiteman) and fiction. A poisonous concoction indeed. Although positive the picture of Louis Armstrong is of course equally distorted. In a brief quote at the end somebody -presumably Mr Forrest - made matters worse by giving a factually correct account of that Chicago summit meeting. My expectations of the play weren't too high but it was much, much worse than I could have imagined..

Mike


Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 4:18 PM

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Don't get me started

by

Don't get me started on the reverse-racist view of jazz history that seems to have become the standard version these days, propagated by people like Wynton Marsalis and Stanley Crouch, that the only truly creative forces in shaping jazz history were Black musicians. What's especially ironic about this myth is that the one time Bix actually recorded with an African-American musician, James "Bubber" Miley on the May 21, 1030 Hoagy Carmichael "Rockin' Chair," they had surprisingly little to say to each other and had virtually nothing in common musically. (To me this is a particularly poignant record in that both Bix and Miley had drunk themselves out of jobs with major bands, Bix with Whiteman and Miley with Duke Ellington, and within a little more than two years after making this record both men were dead.)

I remember seeing the 1959 film "The Cry of Jazz," a particularly nasty and argumentative presentation of the "only Blacks created jazz" case, in which the narrator denounces all white jazz musicians as playing "follow the leader." When I wrote about that film in my movie blog I said that "makes me wonder which Black 'leaders' Bix Beiderbecke, Django Reinhardt, Artie Shaw, Stan Kenton, Gerry Mulligan and Lennie Tristano, to name just a few, were following. (Some racialist jazz commentators make Django a sort of 'honorary Black' because as a Gypsy he had to deal with similar discrimination.) It also ignores the influence of white musicians on Black ones -- like Frank Trumbauer and Jimmy Dorsey on Lester Young and Benny Carter, or Bix on Rex Stewart."

Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 7:28 AM

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An amusing anecdote about Manny Klein from a 1937 issue of Radio Mirror.

by

http://ia801504.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/14/items/radio00macf/radio00macf_jp2.zip&file=radio00macf_jp2/radio00macf_0553.jp2

After the page opens, click on the image to make it bigger.

Albert



Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 8:04 AM

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Before Star Dust was a song, it was a ....

by

.... popular novel by Fannie Hurst published in 1921. Available, I believe, complete in google books. The complete title is Star- Dust, The Story of an American Girl.

http://books.google.com/books?id=hMcSAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

The novel was made into a movie in 1922.

There was also a 1917 short titled "Star Dust," starring Marguerite Clayton.

Sometimes I wonder if Hoagy got the title for his song from the novel by Fannie Hurst.

Albert



Posted on Nov 16, 2013, 4:20 PM

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Hurst also wrote...

by Debbie White

.."Imitation of Life," the movie adaptation of which I can no longer watch because the ending is just too devastating.

Another interesting connection to Hurst is that she was born in Hamilton, Ohio (1889), the small town within close proximity of the Stockton Club where the Wolverine Orchestra came together. Priscilla Holbrook, contacted by Bix for piano instruction in the winter of 1923, also resided there, and it was through her that Bix was introduced to the music of Eastwood Lane - a source of great inspiration to him from that point onward.

Posted on Nov 16, 2013, 10:55 PM

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Another connection: Min Leibrook.

by

Born in Hamilton, he recorded with Bix in his first and last recording sessions.

An obituary of Leibrook.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1298747346/An+Obituary+of+Min+Leibrook-

An article from April 7, 1924 in the Hamilton paper. Perhaps the only published photo of Bix when he was alive, with the exception of the articles in the Davenport press.

[linked image]

Albert



Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 7:56 AM

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Hoagy's mother

by

I like your use of "Sometimes I wonder". I think I remember reading that Hoagy's mother, who I believe taight him to play piano, had a job playing piano in the pit for silent movies. If so, there's a chance she saw the movie and, given how close they were, ....

Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 4:48 PM

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Jelly Roll Morton and His Red Hot Peppers are well known.

by

But did you know about Mike Mosiello and His Hot Peppers? Here are two recordings by this group. Andy Sannella on guitar and clarinet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1fLCmjykl8  Get a load of the coda. Doesn't it sound like a Five Pennies ending?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii7I4g0vpEA

Albert

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 16, 2013 8:08 AM

Posted on Nov 16, 2013, 8:08 AM

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Two Recordings listed under Willard Robison in Rust's Jazz Discography.

by

Here are the listings:

Vocal, acc. by his Deep River Orchestra: ? Harry Goldfield, t / Chester Hazlett, cl / 2-3 vn / own p / ? Snoozer Quinn, g / ? Mike Trafficante, sb. New York, February 14, 1929.
147845-1 We'll Have A New Home In The Morning Har 870-H, Re G-9376 Re G-6000-9473 are are English Columbia products.
NOTE: Harmony 870-H as PAUL HOWE.

Mike Pingitore, bj, replaces Quinn. New York, April 19, 1929.
148463-2 Head Low  Col 1818-D, Re G-9376

[linked image]

And here the listings in the 78 online discography.

Har 870-H PAUL HOWE (W.ROBISON) WE'LL HAVE A NEW HOME IN THE MORNING 147845=1 - - 2/14/29

Col 1818D WILLARD ROBISON HEAD LOW W148463=2 - - 4/19/29 -

Note that the musicians listed in Rust are Whiteman musicians!

These two recordings were mentioned by John in http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1330381253/Article+on+Willard+Robison+in+July+-+August+1951+%26quot%3BJazz+Journal%26quot%3B++%287-8%29

"Unfortunately only one of his really satisfactory recordings ever appeared in
England. This was the Regal "We'll Have a New Home In the Morning" and "Head
Low". These date from the period when he was broadcasting extensively in
America with his "Little Symphony". Robison's Little Symphony, in fact,
consisted of a string quartet, a clarinet (usually Chester Hazlitt) and a
rhythm section. His own piano was used purely as a solo instrument, and a
trumpet was occasionally added. The delightful arrangements were the work of
Bill Challis, and the performances were of chamber music character and delicacy."

Years ago, Norman Field had an mp3 file of Head Low in one of his web pages. It is no longer available. I would like to listen to these two recordings, and I imagine several of you would too. Anyone?

And a question. What were all these Whiteman musicians doing by making recordings with Willard Robison?

Albert



Posted on Nov 15, 2013, 12:52 PM

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Have you seen this photo of Willard Robison?

by

http://ia701205.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/10/items/radiodigest193025radi/radiodigest193025radi_jp2.zip&file=radiodigest193025radi_jp2/radiodigest193025radi_0678.jp2

From the Radio Digest 1930. I'll try to find the next pages.

Albert



Posted on Nov 15, 2013, 1:02 PM

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I found it in the flicker website.

by

It is an Apeda photo!!

[linked image]

Albert



Posted on Nov 15, 2013, 1:06 PM

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The complete article with both songs sent by Nick mentioned.

by

Radio Digest, Oct 1930.

72

Willard c

Robison"

Hauntin Harmonies

Willard Robison who brings the croon songs and spirituals

to listeners throughout the country.

Spirituals and

Blues Songs Turn

Dials to Maxwell

House Hour from

Coast to Coast

ARED second hand creeps resolutely

past its black brothers on

the face of an electrically synchronized

clock. The red hand

is ticking inevitably toward a program cue

in the large studio on the thirteenth floor

of the National Broadcasting Company

building in New York. In twentyeighteen

sixteen seconds, says the hand, it

will be 9:30 o'clock. Another weekly

program of Maxwell House Melodies will

be vibrating radio speakers in thousands

of homes from coast to coast.

But only one man in the studio is watching

the seconds as they vanish toward the

"zero" hour. He is the announcer, Alwyn

Bach, who listens through his earphones

and spares one eye for the lights in his

switchboard while he observes the red

hand out of the corner of the other.

For everyone else in the studio, there

is a more absorbing, vital object of attention.

Twenty-three musicians, four young

vocalists, half a hundred guests admitted

by ticket to this sanctum of sound, are

watching a slender, blond young man

who is slouched indolently against a grand

piano by the conductor's stand. He is

Willard Robison, the director, famous exponent

of the syncopated spiritual and

hauntingly harmonized "blues" song,

whose original Deep River Orchestra has

been swallowed up in the enlarged Maxwell

House ensemble.

J. HE sixteen seconds pass.

Lights flash in the switchboard. Bach

turns from his announcer's microphone

and drops his handthe gesture signifying

"on the air". With the soothing strains

of "PeacefulValley", one of Robison's

own compositions, the orchestra begins its

program, and. the audience relaxes after its

expectant wait.

But Robison, the director, becomes

73

alert, intense. His interest in the proceedings,

however, is not that of the conventional

director. He doesn't wave a

baton, and his hair remains unruffled. In

fact, he may not move from his piano

during all of the signature song. Only

his attitude of careful listening, or perhaps

a lifted eyebrow in the direction of

the 'cellos, indicates his constant scrutiny

of the performance. For Willard Robison,

who brought haunting croon songs and

spirituals of the Southwestern Negro to

jazz weary New York, belongs to a new

school of radio conductors.

Robison is an ardent student of the

technique of broadcast music. He places

his emphasis on painstaking rehearsals, on

meticulous perfection of the balance of

his orchestrations in terms of their reproduction

on the air.

But let's turn back to the progress of

this program just begun, to this typical

Thursday night concert by Willard Robison

and his Maxwell House ensemble.

First may come a rhythmic spiritual entitled

"We'll Have a New Home in the

Morning", a composition by Robison

whose title suggests that it is a sort of

epilogue to his "Cottage for Sale", the

song which first brought him fame in

New York. Then comes an example of

the new idiom in Negro spirituals, "Aunt

Hagar's Chimin", by W. C. Handy, the

father of the "Blues".

Next, perhaps, the impresario himself

goes to the piano, and leans over toward

the solo microphone which is swung across

the piano-top on a two-by-four plank

a

studio "set-up" designed especially for

Robison's own crooning style. He goes

into one of his most notable studies in

modernistic harmonies, "Head Low".

Breathing softly into the microphone, he

becomes an old revivalist, busily "rasslin'

with Satan and savin' souls!" Camp

meeting is in full swing after the first few

bars ; traffic is heavy on the sawdust trail.

Then evening shadows lengthen in the

swamplands, lights twinkle in the cabins as

dusk falls in the canebrake, and a song of

lament rises 'from the lowlands. Willard

Robison's orchestra plays Rube Bloom's

prize-winning "Song of the Bayou".

Released from the misty spell of the

Mississippi swamps by the inevitable

"brief pause for station announcements",

heralded nowadays by the melody of

chimes, listeners next hear the voices of

four young men, lullingly keyed to the

strains of "Oh, Miss Hannah". The fact

that they are carefully attired in dinner

jackets, singing into a metal box in a room

with modernistic appointments, fails to

destroy for listeners the atmosphere of

the Deep South. The young men in this

quartet, incidentally, are Victor Hall and

Randolph Weyant, tenors; Ken Christie,

baritone, and Bob Moody, bass.

By way of sparkling conclusion, Willard

Robison may choose as his finale for this

characteristic Maxwell House period a

syncopated medley from a current New

York musical show.

.

Albert



Forum Owner

Posted on Nov 16, 2013, 3:32 PM

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Re: Willard Robison and Whiteman Musicians

by

We have to assume that Whiteman had given his blessing to what would otherwise be "wildcatting" sessions if indeed Robison and/or other members of his orchestra, as well as Bill Challis, were involved in the session.

How unusual was this situation?

Posted on Nov 15, 2013, 1:44 PM

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Willard Robison was under contract with ....

by

.... Paul Whiteman in 1925. Whiteman was a supporter of what Robison was doing as a creator of American music. Thus, I am guessing that the use of Whiteman's musicians in Robison's recording was not an example of wild-catting, but it came with Whiteman's approval.

Albert



Posted on Nov 15, 2013, 4:50 PM

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Thanks to Nick's generosity, here are mp3 files ....

by

.... of the two recordings.

www.dropbox.com/s/gp0bfw743vpxud0/WillardRobisonHeadLow1.mp3

www.dropbox.com/s/2ayq1tkukc6g0kd/WillardRobisonWellHaveANewHomeInTheMorning1.mp3

To my ears, the trumpet player is Harry Goldfield. Chet Hazlett's, who replaced Ross Gorman in the Whiteman orchestra in May 1925, does his terrific work on subtone clarinet. Rust gives Quinn on guitar in the recording of Head Low. There is clearly a banjoist in the Head Low recording, and I am pretty sure that the banjoist is Mike Pingitore. I don't hear a banjo in We'll Have A New Home In The Morning. I believe I hear a guitar. What do others hear?

I love Robison's style of singing and his interesting compositions. These are vocal recordings with interesting accompaniments. Thank you very much, Nick. I appreciate your invaluable contributions to the Bixography Forum.

Albert



Posted on Nov 16, 2013, 6:53 AM

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Beautiful!

by

This version of "We'll Have a New Home in the Morning" is available on Brad Kay's excellent Robison collection (and if you haven't ordered that CD from him, what are you waiting for?). "Head Low" I hadn't heard before, but it's equally beautiful. I love Willard Robison as singer, songwriter and arranger and only wish he'd used Bix on his records more than once! BTW, I agree with Albert's identifications of Hazlett (though it sounded to me like he was playing bass clarinet here) and Pingitore but I have a hard time believing that the marvelous hot trumpet on "Head Low" is Goldfield. (And no, I'm NOT starting a rumor that it was Bix, either!) I also don't think Bill Challis was involved in these records, though the arrangements aren't that different from his work. Robison was an excellent arranger in his own right and I'm sure the scores were his.

Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 7:15 AM

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Another Photo of the Gennett Recording Studio in Richmond

by

[linked image]

There is no date for this photo from the Gennett Records facebook page. This group of musicians made records for Gennett in 1925. Compare with the photo of the Wolverines in the same studio in 1924.

[linked image]

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 13, 2013 1:17 PM

Posted on Nov 13, 2013, 1:14 PM

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Don't believe everything you hear in youtube.

by

These are, ostensibly, the recordings of "Sugar" by Paul Whiteman with Bix..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o2x78k7sAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A_daugQ-PA

It ain't Paul and it ain't Bix either. And it ain't the tune that Whiteman recorded. It is the Red and Miff Stompers recording of another tune by the same name. It is the tune recorded by Red and Tram in a deal they made in Oct 1927.

Albert



Posted on Nov 13, 2013, 7:53 AM

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Vic Berton's Drum Set

by

[linked image]

From http://www.polarityrecords.com/vintage-drum-kits-1920s-and-30s.html

Ol' Victor here was styling for sure, with TWO tympani, xylophone, tubular bells and a big gong thrown into the mix. With his snare at that angle and height it's difficult to imagine how he could've done much with that Chinese tack head tom tom, though! That's a stretch!
 
Albert


Posted on Nov 12, 2013, 9:33 AM

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Re: Vic Moore's Drum Set

by

The bass drum used by Vic Moore was a Ludwig bass drum with original, factory-painted head. Here is an image in glorious technicolor. (Not Vics original drum, but a different one restored.)

[linked image]

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 12, 2013 9:40 AM

Posted on Nov 12, 2013, 9:39 AM

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A review of Bix's Wolverine recordings in ....

by

.... African-American press.

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/ReissueWolverineReviewNYAmsterdam27Jan1940.pdf

Albert



Posted on Nov 11, 2013, 3:38 PM

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Have you heard about a drummer by the name of Harry McCall?

by

In a letter to Louis Armstrong, McCall writes that he played drums with Bix. Take a look at this from  the louisarmstronghouse.org website.

[linked image]

Albert



Posted on Nov 11, 2013, 1:16 PM

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You have to click on the link to see the image!

by

Albert

Posted on Nov 11, 2013, 3:18 PM

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"Japanese Mammy" is a beautiful song by ....

by

.... Donaldson and Kahn.

Walter Donaldson (Feb 15, 1893 Brooklyn, NY Jul 15, 1947 Santa Monica, CA) composed about 600 songs for Tin Pan Alley, Broadway and Hollywood. Some of his best-known songs are My Mammy; Carolina in the Morning; Yes Sir, Thats My Baby; My Blue Heaven.  Donaldson was inducted in the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1970.

Gus Kahn (Nov 6, 1886 Koblenz, Germany Oct 8, 1941 Beverly Hills CA) was a lyricist who wrote about 350 songs for Tin Pan Alley, Broadway and Hollywood. Some of his best-known songs are Pretty Baby; It Had to Be You;  Makin Whoopee; San Francisco. Kahn was inducted in the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1970.

Walter Donaldson and Gus Kahn collaborated in more than 100 songs. Bix recorded several songs penned by Donaldson, Kahn or by both: Oh Baby! (D); Susie (K); I Need Some Pettin (K); There Aint No Land Like Dixieland (D); Changes (D); Mary (D); A Shady Tree (D); Chloe (K); Coquette (K); My Ohio Home (D&K; Fox Movietone News); Japanese Mammy (D & K); Because My Baby Dont Mean Maybe Now (D); Borneo (D); Out Of Town Girl (D); Im Bringing A Red Red Rose (D & K); Reaching for Someone (D).

Japanese Mammy was recorded by Paul Whiteman on May 22, 1928 (four takes, all rejected) and June 10, 1928 (three additional takes, take 6 was mastered. Listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmMddyIjHow

Bix present but does not solo. Here is the excellent version by Allan Selby and His Band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Fp6oJ4JLg

These guys clearly were listening to Bix and Tram. I hear a fragment of I'm Coming Virginia at 1:07. Are the trumpet duets at 2:11 and 2:34 played in unison?

As far as I know, there is only one other recording of the tune in the 1920s in the US: that by Chuck Campbell (Lou Gold) for Harmony 725-H. Surprising in view of the interest at the time about exotic tunes. There is one recording in Australia found in the CD "Melbourne in the 1920's." I don't know anything more about this recording.

Albert



Posted on Nov 10, 2013, 8:39 AM

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"Hoagy and Bix" Musical: It didn't work out.

by

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/HoagyAndBixKokomoTribune14Mar1991.pdf

Albert



Posted on Nov 10, 2013, 6:49 AM

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I am sick and tired of seeing the Graystone Ballroom spelled incorrectly ....

by

.... as Greystone. It is Graystone with an "a."

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

mckinneycotton.jpg?1384044775743

A promotional photo of McKinney's Cotton Pickers, the renowned Graystone house band, at the Graystone's fountain

Some of the above serve also to demolish the misconception, held by some, that the McKinney's Cotton Pickers was a Chicago-based orchestra.

Albert

variety76-1924-10_0078.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0



Posted on Nov 9, 2013, 5:00 PM

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The First Victor Recording by the Coon Sanders Nighthawks

by

[linked image]

Night Hawk Blues. 1924-04-05, Kansas City, Missouri.

Listen: http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/recordings/detail/id/9829

A harbinger of things to come.

Albert



Posted on Nov 9, 2013, 1:57 PM

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From the April 1925 issue of the Radio Age.

by

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/ArticleNighhawksRadioAgeQpr1925.doc

Albert

 



Posted on Nov 9, 2013, 4:21 PM

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"San" by the Hotchkiss School Dance Orchestra!

by John Leifert

Intending to send Albert a CDR of this, so Brad (and all the Forum readers) could hear it, nevertheless I found that this recording is up on YouTube! (In a decent transfer, too). So, without further ado, here are the prep school kids of Hotchkiss School performing "San", on (fittingly) April 1, 1931:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmbTFcUbd2k

Upon hearing it again, it's really not so horribly bad - especially when you know the ages of the performers! The banjo and piano are pretty decent, and they perform spiritedly (if rather out of tune). Be alert for that REALLY clunky drum break near the end, which is pretty laugh-worthy. (BTW he obviously did not own a set of cymbals, as you will hear).

From Wikipedia:

The Hotchkiss School is an independent, coeducational American college preparatory boarding school located in Lakeville, Connecticut. Founded in 1891, the school enrolls students in grades 9 through 12 and a small number of postgraduates.

Address: 11 Interlaken Rd, Lakeville, CT 06039
Hours:
Friday Open 24 hours - See all
Nonprofit category: Secondary/High School
Phone: (860) 435-2591
Founder: Maria Bissell Hotchkiss
Founded: 1891


Enjoy!

John L

Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 9:48 AM

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A piece of "Love for Sale" by the ....

by

.... Hotchkiss School Dance Orchestra is available in

https://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=B4nvx4oexaiuatxgag43in7t75i&tid=song-Tlozq3vzovo47scww54izu5riga

There is a terrible vocal  by a group of students here.

Albert



Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 1:41 PM

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The whole song is available for $0.99 in Amazon.

by

http://www.amazon.com/Love-For-Sale/dp/B001F67V1O

You can hear a different piece here.

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 8, 2013 3:58 PM

Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 1:45 PM

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Thanks for that!

by

Hey John,

This Hotchkiss School version of "San" is right up to the middling standard set by Jack Warner, Jr. and his Beverly Hills Ramblers - the same degree of out-of-tune-ness, the same plodding drum beat, the same dogged determination and "team spirit." With a little effort, one might assemble an album of High School orchestras from over the decades, each attempting to "swing" or "jazz" or even "rock," that show exactly the same degree of ernest callowness.

For instance, I have a record of "Mary Washington Stomp" by the dance band from the school of the same name, ca. 1941. More of the same, and yet even worse dreadful, because their model is Count Basie and his Orchestra, whose precision riffs they bungle and smear at every opportunity. It's part of an album of "Dire" music I've been assembling for years.

-Brad K

Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 2:33 PM

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It's still San

by

I give em the big E for effort.

Posted on Nov 17, 2013, 7:15 PM

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The Other "Singin' the Blues."

by

A composition by the great Dorothy Fields - Jimmy McHugh team.

The version by the High Hatters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVF35R2kii0

From the musical of the same name

- The entry in the idbd website: http://ibdb.com/production.php?id=11165

- A review: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tfbuioz531vliow/NYSunReviewSinginTheBlues.pdf

Albert



Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 8:37 AM

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The "Geechie Call"/"Davenport Blues" in the Red Nichols' version of ...

by

.... Con Conrad's and Russell Robinson's "Singin' the Blues."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HceKjV_-ET0

Listen at 3:08 for the Geechie Call. The intro is taken from the Bix and Tram version.

Albert



Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 8:52 AM

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Geechie Call

by

Having scanned over numerous 'Geechie Call' citations in this blog, I have an impression of what the phrase is understood to describe.

Still, would you describe for me (-simply, would be fine, don't spend a lot of detail for, unless you wish) what you mean by the phrase 'Geechie Call,' and, who/what/where coined the phrase? [I'm aware of the term 'geechie,' have and use dictionaries, etc.]

Looking forward to anyone's description, to see how it compares with my perception. Thanks any/everyone.

Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 11:36 AM

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The first thread about Geechie Call in the Bixography Forum

by

From http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1317590631/%26quot%3BDavenport+Blues%26quot%3B+and+%26quot%3BRainy+Nights-%26quot%3B

"Russ Shor posted in one of the facebook pages the following observation:
One of the MOST enduring phrases in all of jazz is the ascending phrase that Bubber Miley plays at the end of each chorus in Rainy Nights. (Garvin Bushell called it the Geechie Call). Bix varied it for Davenport Blues, Fats Waller used it in some of his solos to end a chorus, and on down through Red Garland, Gene Harris, Red Holloway and even Percy heath on bass. It still gives me chills, like an old friend keeping in touch!!  I'd love to hear all the spottings you guys can come up with."

Albert

 



Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 3:02 PM

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Garvin Bushell about the Geechie Call

by

In his book "Jazz From the Beginning," Bushell provides his discography. Following the listing of  Edith Wilson's (accompanied by Johnny Dunn) "Vampin' Liza Jane," Bushell writes, "Hear Johnny Dunn do that old Geechie call?"

Listen to the recording, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rssfQacEWVE  Do you hear the Geechie Call? I don't hear it explicitly, just sort of implied. Does that make sense?

Albert



Posted on Nov 11, 2013, 7:45 AM

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Geechie Call

by

Hi mr. Fred, how are you.

It's true what the "Geechie" call is very cited in this forum, primarly by the forum's owner the sir Albert Haim. I don't know when was the first Geechie Call's mention in the forum, but i think, was an post made by the Mr. Albert Haim in October of 2011, about an coincidence between "Rainy Night" by the Washingtonians (Duke Ellington's early band) in 1924 and the classic "Davenport Blues" by Bix and his Rhythm Jugglers. Both solos are similar, especially in the last part of "Rainy Nights" made by Bubber Miley, who was aparently an early influence on Bix.

I don't descript the solo, because i don't have musical experience, but i could recognize in other recordings in who appears the phrase. E.g.

1)"Natcherly" by Leon Selph's Blue Ridge Playboys. Recorded in March 12, 1941 for Vocalion Records in Forth Worth, TX. The phrase appears in the intro of the song and is extremly rare who the phrase appears in a not-jazz song by a not-jazz band and by not wind instrument (Eddie Lang used the phrase in a 1927's recording with a female singer what now i don't remember his name). This is a western swing band, who recorded between 1936-1942, and was one of the first band to include electric guitar on his repertoire. Two guitarist, Herman Standlee and the later popular Floyd Tillman (who was well-know for write his first hit-song "It Makes No Difference Now", 1939) recorded with electric guitar in the November's recording sessions. Other guitarist who recorded with an electric guitar was Bob Symons, who accompanied to the honky-tonk singer Al Dexter in his first recordings, also from November 1936. And was recording in a western swing trio named "The Nite Owls", formed by Symons, guitarist Luke Owens and bassist Jack True from 1937 to 1938. Back to the theme, the solo is made by the musician (banjoist-guitarist) Gus Plant, who was the banjoist in the first organization of the band. From the 1941's sessions, he was playing electric guitar, and "Natcherly" was one of include this instrument. Hear the full song here:

https://ia600306.us.archive.org/32/items/LeonSelphHisBlueRidgePlayboys-21-30/LeonSelphHisBlueRidgePlayboys-Natcherly_64kb.mp3

Gus Plant has the typical guitar style from the late 1930s and early 1940s (acoustically), not very influenced by Charlie Christian and others jazz guitarist who started recording with electric guitar in 1938 (Eddie Durham, Leonard Ware, George Barnes), and not forget what the electric guitar was first recorded by western swing musicians in 1935 (in contrast to Jimmie Lunceford's recording of "Hittin' the Bottle" (This have a connection to Bix, this song was recorded by Frankie's Orchestra in 1930)where the great Eddie Durham is erroneously credited to use an electric guitar in this October 1935 recording, really he was using an resonator style guitar, used before by hawaiians great like Sol Hoopii and Andy Iona).

2)"Jazz Lips" by Louis Armstrong's Hot Five. Recorded in November 16, 1926 for OKeh Records. This one of the best Louis' recording in my opinion, the typical New Orleans-style or Dixieland, with a great set of musicians (Kid Ory, Baby and Johnny Dodds, Lil). The geechie phrase appears in the first minute, precisely in the 01:09 of the recording. The cornet/trumpet solo is very clear but fast, and this to me, one of most easily recognized in my opinion.

I have juxapositon of this song, first Bix Davenport Blues and later Louis Hot Five's Jazz lips, but i don't know how upload the clip to the site. If anyone knows, say me.

Greetings from Argentina.

Posted on Nov 10, 2013, 1:53 PM

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Bienvenido a la Bixografia.

by

Very interesting. Indeed Louis plays a fragment of the Geechie call in his recording of "Hot Lips."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbpOPOz2KQA

dropbox.com is a free site where you can upload mp3 files and then provide a link in your posting. There are other sites. soundcloud.com is popular. If you have your own website, you upload the file to your website and provide the link in your posting.

Cordialmente,

Albert

Vivi muchos años en el Uruguay (en los 40 y 50). Visite la Argentina varias veces. En los 90 di conferencias en las  Universidades de Tucuman, Buenos Aires y Mar del Plata.



Posted on Nov 10, 2013, 5:54 PM

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Thanks for the welcome

by

Muchas gracias por la bienvenida, señor Albert.

Me alegro de que usted haya visitado mi país y que haya vivido en Uruguay, en donde vivió Manuel Salsamendi (Leyendo un post suyo, sr Haim, el realizó una de las 5 primeras grabaciones de "In A Mist" de Bix), fue uno de los primeros en grabar el clásico de Bix "In a Mist" ("En una Neblina") en 1933. Los representantes de jazz en mi país, lamentablemente, son pocos, a excepción en la escena contemporánea como el Gato Barbieri y la banda de Luis Alberto Spinetta, Spinetta Jade. Me gustaría conocer más acerca de los orígenes del jazz en mi país, el cuál yo sito en los años 20.

Muchas gracias también por el sitio. Próximamente subiré el archivo con la yuxtaposición.

Saludos desde Argentina.


Posted on Nov 10, 2013, 7:13 PM

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Great Reply

by

I'll be enjoying looking-up/listening-to some of your cited recordings soon, Elian. No question, the phrase turns up repeatedly in popular music recordings from the era.

In mind, play the melody to the beginning strains of "Dixie"... or "Frankie and Johnnie"... "Amazing Grace"... no end of examples sounding vaguely similar with the phrase.

Dubbing a moniker to a fragment of melody, that's kind of a 'new one' to me. If I try to think of another example of name-applied-to-musical-phrase, offhand nothing comes to mind. Maybe the "blue note...," if two notes can be a phrase.

My post on this was not to disagree with or dispute anyone about "geechie call," really, as much as to solicit contributors' definition.

Posted on Nov 10, 2013, 7:33 PM

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Thanks for the clarification, Mr. Fred and ...

by

here is the juxtaposition of the "Geechie" call in the Louis and His Hot Five recording of "Jazz Lips", in Dropbox.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kaiu7cuoj97j1r9/Louis-Bix-Geechie-Call-1926.mp3

And thanks for the clarification, i don't know how this interesting musical phrase.

Greetings from Argentina for the United States brothers.

Posted on Nov 11, 2013, 3:49 PM

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Joe Smith

by Paul Bocciolone Strandberg

Te most clear and cleanly executed version of the phrase that comes to my mind is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxQncVvsuyg
Joe Smith accompanying Bessie Smith in "Young Woman's Blues".

Posted on Nov 15, 2013, 10:17 AM

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Joe Smith was ...

by

one of the lead trumpeter of the Fletcher Henderson's Orchestra in 1923, (except in 1924, when Armstrong was with the band), 1925, 1926 in onwards.

According to various sources, he was an early influence on Bix's lyrical style. Is true?. I was listening the Henderson's recordings from 1923, 1925 and 1926 and don't hear some influence in the Bix's lyrical style.

But, i like some recordings, e.g., "Stampede", first recorded by the The Dixie Stompers (an Henderson small group) in May 14, 1926 for Harmony.

In this recording, the Joe Smith's cornet sound and tone is (in my humble opinion) similar to Phil Napoleon and Louis Armstrong, but no closely to Bix.

No offense.

Only one question, who influenced who? Bix on Joe? or Joe on Bix? .

Greetings from Argentina.



Posted on Nov 28, 2013, 1:24 PM

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Re: Geechie Call Redux

by

Most of our auditory sightings of the Geechee call have been from Jazz Age recordings. But it seems the venerable lick is alive and well into our own time.

I chanced upon a 2004 live recording at a New Jersey Jazz Society event in which Kenny Davern reproduced the call clearly and elegantly as he soloed on "Am I Blue," at 6:19-6:22 and again at 4:38-4:42.

The Call Lives!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JehlpF-JF8

Posted on Dec 1, 2013, 6:07 PM

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Fresh Air and Vince Giordano.

by

From the NPR website:

Fresh Air with Terry Gross, the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues, is one of public radio's most popular programs. Each week, nearly 4.5 million people listen to the show's intimate conversations broadcast on more than 450 National Public Radio (NPR) stations across the country, as well as in Europe on the World Radio Network.

Though Fresh Air has been categorized as a "talk show," it hardly fits the mold. Its 1994 Peabody Award citation credits Fresh Air with "probing questions, revelatory interviews and unusual insights." And a variety of top publications count Gross among the country's leading interviewers. The show gives interviews as much time as needed, and complements them with comments from well-known critics and commentators.

In yesterday's program Vince Giordano was interviewed. The complete interview available here.

http://www.npr.org/2013/11/06/243483782/vince-giordano-the-fresh-air-interview

Albert

PS See also http://bixography.com/inforrelated.htm#VinceGiordano



Posted on Nov 7, 2013, 6:37 AM

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"Feelin' No Pain" was cited in the Fresh Air" interview of ...

by

.... Vince Giordano.

Feelin' No Pain is a very interesting and advanced composition by Fud Livingston. Miff and Red must have liked this piece very much, witness the fact that they recorded it four times within two months. In chronological order:

- Aug 15, 1927. Red Nichols and His Five Pennies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrbBwQ4LbqA

- Aug 30, 1927. Miff Mole's Molers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzqzM_yJ5dQ

- Sep 7, 1927. Charleston Chasers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy9irlWvQtk

- Oct 12, 1927. Red and Miff Stompers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcpHDtYtFoE

These guys don't repeat themselves. All versions somewhat different from each other. If I were asked, which is your favorite, I would respond: ALL!! Red, Miff, Pee Wee, Fud and Vic Berton present in all the recordings. Are all the versions arranged by Fud, the composer of the tune?

As far as I know, there are only two other recordings of this tune in the 1920s.

- Lud Gluskin in Paris on Mar 16, 1928. 

bixbeiderbecke.com/FeelinNoPainLudGluskin.mp3

Sol Hoppi Trio in Los Angeles on Mar 27, 1928.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX3dL8RzT3I

I hope you enjoy this feast of "Feelin' No Pain."

Albert



Posted on Nov 7, 2013, 12:01 PM

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The Red Heads

by

The Red Nichols and His Five Pennies recording Brunswick 6819, 3626  and 80069 (reissue series) has matrix number E24235. It was also issued as by Red Nichols and His Five Pennies on Vocalion 15622. In addition it was released as by the Red Heads on Oriole 2530, Perfect 15648, Banner 3251, Romeo 1901 and Melotone 12443.

Albert



Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 6:35 AM

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Some information about Ben Selvin & Frank Cush on 1926.

by

Hi!

I've found some interesting information about Ben Selvin taken from the Metronome Magazine number 22 of November 15 of 1926 via Glen Richards's Vintage Jazz and Hot Dance Page with the following link:
http://www.2multiples.com/hotdance/album/main.php?cmd=album&var1=magazines%2Fmetronome111526%2F
I'll reproduce the words about Selvin written by Gordon Whyte on the section called 'Round The Rialto With The Orchestras:
"Selvin at Café de Paris: Ben Selvin will again be at the Café de Paris this season. Ben made a big hit there last season and his re-engagement is a consequence of that. Frank Cush has joined Ben. He was formerly trumpeter with the California Ramblers & Jack Albin's Orchestra. He replaces Earl Oliver. Frank is known as one of the best wah-wah artists in the country".
Well, if Cush was also with Jack Albin after leaving the California Ramblers, i believe that he recorded with him for Edison on 1926.


There's also a mention about Jean Goldkette and his Orchestra here, whose words i'll reproduce:
"Goldkette at the Roseland: Jean Goldkette and his Orchestra are playing at the Roseland and have scored a terrific success. They are also recording for Victor and recently gave a program over the WEAF. Their success was so great in the air that the station inmediately wanted to fix another recording date, but the record company put its foot down the scheme. The personnel of the band is as follows: Fred Farrar (aka Fuzzy Farrar), Ray Lodwig, Bix Beiderbecke (misspelled Biederbocke), trumpets; William Rank (aka Bill Rank), trombone; Stanley Ryker (aka Doc Ryker), Frank Trumbauer, Donald Murray, saxophones; Irving Riskin, piano; Chauncey Morehouse (misspelled Moorehouse), drums; Howard Quicksell, banjo; Steve Brown, string bass and Charles Horvath, manager".

Whyte forgot to mention that Newell Lynn "Spiegle" Wilcox was also present in the band.

Hope this helps!

Javier Soria Laso



Posted on Nov 5, 2013, 8:21 AM

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Gracias, Javier!

by

Another example that destroys the myth that Bix's name was mentioned only twice in the press when he was alive.

For the convenience of readers, here is a direct link to the page with the transcriptions you provided. In tha page some more fascinating stuff.

www.2multiples.com/hotdance/album/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=magazines%2Fmetronome111526%2Fmet111526018.jpg

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 5, 2013 12:31 PM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 5, 2013 12:30 PM

Posted on Nov 5, 2013, 12:28 PM

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Your welcome, Albert!

by

I wonder if Bernard Shirley & Richard Johnson's book titled "American Dance Bands On Record and Film 1915-1942" would have included that information?

Anyway, i think is absolutely interesting that Selvin hired Cush for his group.
I suppose that Cush was present on Jack Albin's first recordings made for Edison on 1926.

Javier Soria Laso

Posted on Nov 5, 2013, 12:34 PM

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Fan mail

by Mike Lewis

In a site usually dedicated to technical appreciation of 20s jazz music, I hope posting a bit of unadulterated fan mail might be occasionally tolerated. Thank you, Mr. Haim, for reprising the Rhythmic Eight's version of I'm Coming Virginia in WBIX #216.

Dancing with someone would be better; but when listening to 2/4-time music alone, tapping your feet and snapping your fingers isn't the only thing you can do some of which activities may increase the flexibility of your spine.

Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 3:21 AM

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Thanks, very much, Mike (Uncle Lewis).

by

Creating a WBIX program involves a lot of work and time.  Some of it is pure joy, choosing the tunes, listening to them. There is also a lot of boring computer work: saving the files, changing formats, uploading, typing the description, etc. Comments such as yours make it all worthwhile and I appreciate your taking the time to write.

In view of your kind remarks, I hate to do this, but we don't want to have misconceptions. The version of I'm Coming Viriginia played in WBIX # 217 was by Fred Spinnelly. And here he is, holding a copy of the record that you and I enjoyed so much.

[linked image]

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 6:08 AM

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Mike meant ....

by

.... "There's A Cradle in Caroline" by the Rhythmic Eight. Yes, a fantastic recording with the Fabulous Finn doing what he does best.

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 10:22 AM

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Additions to Frank Trumbauer's Page.

by

Thanks to the generosity of Bill, Tram's grandson, I uploaded some more material.

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/FrankTrumbauerMemorabilia

Note also that Bill is accepting bids for some of the items described in the page.

Albert



Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 12:28 PM

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Poor Bix.

by

From http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2013/11/02/the-hugh-maskela-bix-beiderbecke-artie-shaw-connection/

Self-taught on cornet, trumpeter Beiderbecke was an early jazz improvisational prodigy of sorts. He was also difficult to work with, a raging alcoholic  (despite Prohibition) tried to quit, suffered the DTs, and (after declaring that Mexicans with long knives were hiding under his bed) died at the age of 22, likely from a combination of alcohol poisoning and a form of pneumonia. In other words, people who knew Beiderbecke said he was a self-destructive asshole, while praising his talent.

All said with authority. The usual blend of errors, undocumented assertions and emphasis on the negative aspects of Bix's life. In addition, in this case, ad hominem attacks.

"Difficult to work with." Invariably most Bix 's fellow musicians had nothing but positive words about working with Bix.

"Asshole." Definition from the Oxford dictionary. "a stupid or unpleasant person" All documentation demonstrates that Bix was a highly intelligent individual and well-liked by all who knew him.

Good grief. I am distressed. In spite of all efforts to demolish myths and misconceptions about Bix, the tide of pure, unadulterated crap does not recede. sad.gif

Albert

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 3, 2013 8:28 AM

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 7:04 AM

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RE: Poor Bix

by Laura Demilio

You know what I think? A lot of the people writing so-called biographical articles about Bix or telling their wretchedly untrue anecdotes about him were assholes.

Laura



Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 7:45 AM

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Re: Poor Bix

by

What a catalogue of baleful misinformation, shading into disinformation with the ad hominems. Poor Bix indeed!

By coincidence I've just read the newly-published book, "More Important Than The Music - A History of Jazz Discography" (Bruce D. Epperson, University of Chicago Press), and was astonished to Bix see listed (p.35) as a clarinet player! I suspect this is possibly a case of bad editing, as the book also informs that Armstrong joined Oliver in Chicago in 1924, that Ma Rainey recorded for Columbia, and that Charles Delaunay compiled his discography of Django in 1981, rather than the actual 1961.

The real problem is that once this sort of nonsense infects the bloodstream of the media it's all but impossible to eradicate.

Ray Downing


Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 8:51 AM

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Re: Poor Bix.

by Joe Mosbrook

Welcome to the world of Internet blogs where anybody with a data connection can write any stupid thing that comes into his mind. More than ever before, we have to consider the SOURCES of information. We can't put the Genie back in the bottle but we can decide which bottle to reach for.

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 11:50 AM

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I agree that writing in internet sites being accessible to most people....

by

.... results in  lot of crap being passed for fact. However, I will point out that even before the internet, errors were common in the printed media. The American Society started a column in one of its journals (Journal of Chemical Education) in 1966 with the title "Textbook Errors." By 1980, a decade before the world wide web was a reality, there were 138 articles pointing out various relatively serious errors included in at least two commonly used chemistry textbooks. One chemistry professor would give extra credit to students who reported errors in the textbook used in the course. I published half a dozen articles in the Journal regarding various common errors. The two most important, in my opinion,

The relative energies of molecular orbitals for second-row homonuclear diatomic molecules: The effect of s-p mixing.
J. Chem. Educ., 1991, 68, p 737

Catalysis: New Reaction Pathways not just a lowering of the activation energy.
J. Chem. Educ. 1989, 66, p 935.

The discouraging and frustrating fact: ten years after these articles were published, there were still new textbooks that included the errors pointed out in my articles!!

If things were bad years ago in the narrow field of chemistry. extrapolate to the present and to a miriad subjects: the informationt in the internet is full of errors, misinformation and lies. And it is likely to get worse as more and more unqualified people and/or people pushing agendas write in open forums, web pages, social groups, blogs, tweets, etc, etc. Not a very bright future. Joe, there will be so many bottles with polluted, toxic, rotting liquids in them that it will be difficult, at best, to find the bottles with the reliable information.

Albert

 




    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 3, 2013 2:37 PM

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 2:35 PM

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Re: Poor Bix.

by Debbie White

It's interesting,after reading your "Poor Bix" thread and all its responses, to then read the Sunday, December 2, 1928 entry from Tram's diary contained in your subsequent posting.

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 4:42 PM

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Tram's Diary Entry of Dec 2, 1928.

by

The words of a disheartened man because of Bix's very recent episode (Nov 30, Cleveland). Bix's breakdown from alcohol intoxication was so severe that Paul Whiteman had to call a doctor. This was not a case of ordinary excessive drinking, and I can understand Tram feeling defeated about his efforts to help Bix with his drinking problem. In view of Tram's positive statements about Bix throughout their career together, the diary entry is certainly an anomaly. Here are some statements transcribed from Tram's biography by Evans and Kiner with William Trumbauer. These are Tram's own words.

- The 1925-1926 period in St. Louis. "I want to say right here for the record that this was the happiest and healthiest period in our lives. I made him assistant leader of the band. We played golf, rode horses, and he didn't have a drink for months at a time."

- About being hired by Goldkette in 1926. Horvath was concerned about Bix's difficulty in reading during the November 1924 period. Tram told Horvath: "He (Bix) can read arrangements now. Tell you what! Bix will be my responsibility and I won't accept the job without him."

- About their first recordings for OKeh. "For some time Bix and I had plans to make some recordings, and here was our chance."

- About Bix's recording of "In A Mist." "Back in St. Louis, Bix used to play a piano solo for me and I suggested that he recorded it in one of our dates.

- About Tram being frustrated by Bix's drinking in late 1928. "Bix was now getting out of hand, and Paul asked me to try and straighten him out. I promised that I would do my best, but that wasn't enough. What influence I ever had with Bix was now gone!"

- About Bix after the 1928 breakdown. "Even though Bix and I went on different paths at the end of 1928, we were still closer than most people thought. Whenever there was trouble, he always found me, and I tried to help him in every way possible."

- About Bix after he died. "Bix's greatest admirer next to me, was Paul Whiteman. Bix was an intelligent young man, a fast thinker, and well versed in many things."

In conclusion, let me add what Bill Trumbauer, Tram's grandson, wrote to me on Oct 9, 2013:

"One thing I want to say, and you may post it, is that last diary entry about Bix. I'm sure Frank was at wit's end. They had been constant friends and musicians together for a number of years. They had a good thing going and in Frank's mind I am positive he still loved Bix but felt let down, thus the harsh few words. If people could only hear that WOC '53 Bix Tribute recording they could see how much everyone loved and care for Bix. Not only as a musician but a great person."

Albert



Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 5:56 PM

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Living with alcoholics

by

First of all, the post that started this thread had virtually nothing to do with Bix. It was from a blog about Hugh Masekela and its author was only interested in Bix in passing, as the person who had supposedly inspired the movie "Young Man with a Horn," which Masekela saw in his youth and apparently inspired him to take up trumpet playing as a potential career. So the author probably just did a quick Web search on Bix, grabbed a few quick "facts" without being too concerned about whether they were accurate or not, made the ludicrous claim that Bix died at 22 (if he had, he would never have recorded at all and he'd be the sort of foggy legend Emmett Hardy is!) and grabbed that salacious detail from the Sudhalter and Evans biography (probably filtered through several sources of considerably less reliability before he got hold of it) about Bix hallucinating Mexicans with knives under his bed just before he croaked.

But when I read the reference to Bix as an "asshole" I couldn't help but flash back to the Frank Trumbauer diary entry recently posted to this site in which Trumbauer, one of Bix's closest musical associates and best friends, called Bix a "no-good bum" whom he had tried to help but was now washing his hands of and saying, "Now he will just have to suffer." That just goes to show you what befriending (or, even worse, falling in love with) an alcoholic or drug abuser can do to you. People who abuse substances often go through stark changes of personality, sometimes to levels approaching Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (a book written by Robert Louis Stevenson at a time when heroin and cocaine were still legal, and their bad effects were just becoming known; I'm sure at some level Stevenson intended "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" at least in part as a just-say-no tale!), and it's entirely consistent with what we know about alcohol and alcoholics that Bix may have been warm, lovable and charming when sober, and a holy terror and a totally obnoxious person when drunk.

Having lived through an intimate relationship with an alcoholic who eventually died of its effects, I think I know whereof I speak. It's entirely believable that Trumbauer could have said all the nice things he did about Bix in his diary, how genuinely proud he was of his association with Bix when they were working together and he was both productive and sober, how he could get exasperated with Bix's self-destructive streak and ultimately wash his hands of him. It's also believable that 22 years after Bix died he'd repressed all the bad memories and remembered the good stuff, including feeling justifiable pride in the jazz masterpieces he and Bix had created together. "Asshole" was probably too vulgar a word for Trumbauer to have used in 1928, even in a private diary, but it's clear Tram was all too aware of Bix's enormous talent, of his intellect and personal charm when he wasn't drinking, and his self-destructiveness when he WAS drinking.

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 7:27 PM

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The story of the Mexicans with knives was recounted ....

by

.... in Phil Evans second book (Bix, The Leon Beiderbecke Story). Since in his own words, "In this book I can correct the misinformation and mistakes contained in the previous book." (Sudhalter and Evans, Bix, Man and Legend), the story of the Mexicans ostensibly does not represent "misinformation and mistakes." However, I hasten to add that the only source of this story is rental agent George Kraslow.

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 7:20 AM

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I'm not questioning the story

by

Given that it's appeared twice in the works of Philip Evans, who researched Bix's life so diligently he probably knew more about Bix's life than anyone who ever lived other than Bix himself, I'm not questioning Evans' reporting of the story. I meant that the author of the Masekela blog probably didn't get it from either of Evans' books, but from an Internet source several steps removed from the work of our diligent researcher.

Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 7:59 AM

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I understood that.

by

Since it is such a fanciful story, I thought it was important to point out that it was included in Evans' second book. This story is found also in the Wikipedia article about Bix, perhaps the source for the blog I cited.

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 8:23 AM

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Questioning That Story

by

I hope the writer of that blog is appropriately embarrassed at his big blooper stating that Bix died at age 22. That one scored 5 DUHs on the dumbbell scale.

If he got his "information" from the Wikipedia article carefully re-written by Brendan Wolfe a couple of years ago, he might have bothered to note Bix's birth date and page down a screen or two and note that Bix was still alive and recording after 1925, when the blog writer would have had him already deceased.

Do the math, buddy!

Posted on Nov 6, 2013, 5:35 AM

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Re: The story of the Mexicans

by

Kraslow's memory of that evening was related in April 1959.
On a hot New York August evening, Bix, in his apartment, with no air conditioning and in the throes of a third day of pneumonia, and suffering delirium tremens and hallucinations, well it's quite conceivable the Mexican's under the bed account actually happened.
Kraslow's memory was of "Bix's hysterical shouts brought me to his apartment on the run. He was screaming there were two Mexicans hiding under his bed with long daggers. To humor him I looked under the bed and when I arose to assure him there was no one hiding there, he staggered and fell, a dead weight, in my arms".
That was Kraslow's recollection of events of that tragic evening some 28 years later. Over the passing years time does play tricks on our memories. Phil Evans was dedicated to sorting the facts from the many myths that surrounded Bix's life. He wouldn't have included the story in his biography unless he believed it was a reasonably true account.

Posted on Nov 5, 2013, 12:54 PM

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Poor Bix Redux

by

Nick sends a link to this article about Bix. This is not internet crap, but pseudo-journalistic in print crap. Thanks Nick. Poor Bix!

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CLMLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hlUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2823,360653&dq=beiderbecke&hl=en

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 8:27 AM

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Sure it's Bullshit, but...

by

...you have to admit it's REALLY GREAT bullshit!

-BK

Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 9:56 AM

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WHAT A STORY!

by

-- Bix didn't even like to smoke pot after he'd tried it, according to his friends' reports (can't cite exactly, but I'd read in Evans & Evans and so forth) -- even punching the jerk who kept persistently asking, "How are the muggles?" Booze was Bix's thing for a high.

I bet there's outrageous, outlandish craploads of stories about Bix from 60-70 years ago which never made the papers and long stopped making the rounds among musicians who liked to lie about legends, that are still hanging in a miasma of some forgotten backstage locker room. Can you imagine some of those yarns people must have told about him which we never (thank God) even heard of?

Laura

Posted on Nov 5, 2013, 7:51 AM

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Bix, Louis Armstrong and marijuana

by

I must say that when I first read of Bix's well-documented revulsion towards marijuana I couldn't help thinking, "Maybe if pot instead of alcohol had been Bix's drug of choice, he would have lived as long as Louis Armstrong!"

Posted on Nov 7, 2013, 8:35 AM

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Three years ago, I wanted to hear Annette Hanshaw's version of Japanese Sandman.

by

See http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1288629998/%26quot%3BThe+Japanese+Sandman%26quot%3B+ad+nauseam

Now it is available on you tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdd61XGENbM&feature=youtu.be

I found this in facebook. And this is what I wrote:

Fantastic version of this great song.The violin is not mentioned in the youtube video description. I love the obbligatos behind the vocal. The sax break after Annette's vocal is reminiscent of Trumbauer's style. I wanted to hear this recording three years ago. Now I have, multiple times. Thanks, Martin!

Albert

 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 3, 2013 6:14 AM

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 6:12 AM

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Nice!

by John

It's always nice to hear a "new" Annette! Hopefully someday the complete Annette series started by Jeff Healey will be completed.

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 7:01 AM

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Fud, Anyone?

by

Vince G. tipped me off about this, and he wondered out loud if maybe this was a Fud Livingston arrangement. The intro alone is a huge clue that it probably is. Compare it to Fud's chart for "Doin' Things" by Joe Venuti's New Yorkers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0BgbBagI7s

You hear very similar instrumental textures, voicings, cadences. I second the nomination. Fud was at the peak of his creativity in '27-'28 and it shows.

Annette is lovely as always, and for a Perfect / Pathé 78, this is a beautiful transfer.

Brad K.

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 8:43 AM

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That's what I thought, too!

by John Leifert

Brad, I was struck by the same Fud-like characteristics that you and Vince heard. The intro and other parts of "Japanese Sandman" contain characteristics from the All Star Orchestra recording of "My Melancholy Baby", which is a Fud arrangement - listen here, and note the intro and interlude just before the vocal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR5_JC91k6M

John L

Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 8:48 AM

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The sensibiliy of Bix and Tram's music ....

by

.... is all over the place in these recordings. In particular, in the All Star Orchestra's Melancholy Baby, I hear all kinds of fragments that remind of pieces in Bix and Tram recordings.

Bix and Tram's Humpty Dumpty and Krazy Kat were arranged by Fud. Jubilee was arranged by Willard Robison.

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 10:20 AM

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Do I hear an ....

by

.... oboe at 1:03-1:23? Did Fud use oboes in some of his arrangements?

And what is what I hear behind Annette at 1:53, bell-like?

Albert



Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 9:29 AM

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Yes you do

by Steve Robins

The oboe, an instrument often used to evoke the exotic east, plays here through the arrangement till shortly before the vocal, then plays behind Annette, with one or two clinkers characteristic of that instrument, up to 1:53 when what sounds like a muted trumpet takes over for a few bars before the oboe returns.

Steve

Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 5:36 AM

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Thanks, Steve. More oboe in "Japanese Sandman."

by

Art Hickman recorded Japanese Sandman (with an intro to Avalon) on Oct 1, 1920 (Col A3322) . Included is a long oboe rendition of the verse and chorus. Listen

archive.org/download/ArtHickmanOrchestra-31-40/ArtHickmansHotelSaintFrancisOrchestra-TheJapaneseSandman.mp3

Other examples of oboe useage in jazz or dance band records?

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 4, 2013 8:24 AM

Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 8:11 AM

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Re: Thanks, Steve. More oboe in "Japaneses Sandman."

by Nick Dellow


"Other examples of oboe usage in jazz or dance band records?"


Edward "Poggy" Pogson in Jack Hylton's "Forget Me Not"(the only Bixian oboe solo ever recorded!) and "Pardon the Glove".


Arnold Brilhart in The Dorsey Brothers' "Persian Rug"


Rube Crozier in Joe Venuti's "Chant Of The Jungle"


Talking of double reed instruments, there are also hot solos on bassoon of course, thanks to Tram in particular, and there is at least one hot heckelphone solo played by....well, see if you can name the recording first! However, I've never come across a hot Cor Anglais solo!

While on the subject of unusual instruments (at least in the world of jazz and dance music), apart from those played by Adrian Rollini, how many other hot goofus and hot fountain pen solos can you think of? There are a few.


Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 8:56 AM

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Jack Hylton's "Pardon the Glove.:"

by

www.petefaint.co.uk/jackhylton/pardontheglove.mp3

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 9:49 AM

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Jack Hylton's "Forget Me Not."

by

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JJpmIBZtag

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 9:55 AM

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The Dorsey Brothers' "Persian Rug."

by

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IQDNPdCDww

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 9:58 AM

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Joe Venuti's "Chant Of The Jungle."

by

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWTjOjH7So4

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 10:01 AM

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Get a load of the record label ....

by

.... of the Willard-Annette Perfect recording of Japanese Sandman, courtesy of Han Enderman.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zbchwy1lmbxulxl/JapaneseSandmanPerfectRecordLabelRobisonWithAnnette.jpg

I love it: Vocal Chorus, "Annette" Reminds of Singin' the Blues, "With Bix and Lang." How many musicians were credited with their first name only in 1920s recordings?

Thanks, Han. I appreciate all your help.

Albert

PS Chris Ellis in the liners for  the CD "Vocal Refrain by Annette Hanshaw," RTR 79073 writes,

"Willard Robison was another colleague that Annette liked and admired both as a person and a musician and told me she enjoyed working with him. It shows. What also shows is the much more relaxed and interesting sound of the orchestra and the choice of better material. Songs like There aint no sweet man suit Annette beautifully as does that great 1920 oldie The Japanese Sandman."





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 3, 2013 10:37 AM

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 10:35 AM

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Sandmen and streams of avarice

by Nick Dellow


There are numerous audio/sonic indicators that provide corroborative evidence that the audio file used in the YouTube video of "Japanese Sandman" by Willard Robison and his Orchestra is taken from the recently released Retrieval CD "Vocal Refrain by Annette Hanshaw 1927-1929". No acknowledgement is given in the video or the accompanying description to this effect. Brad rightly highlights the high quality of the transfer of this Annette Hanshaw track. All the restoration work on the Annette Hanshaw CD was carried out by Harry Coster, who is Retrieval's main audio engineer.

If credit is given on YouTube videos of ripped CD tracks, there is an argument that this can actually help sales of the original CD, but where none is given obviously it is potentially damaging. When this omission occurs, YouTube are not necessarily to blame. Unless it is pointed out to them, they may be unaware of the fact that the uploaded audio file is taken from a commercial CD; if they are informed that there is a potential issue then they will consider removing the video (or, more specifically, the audio component).

Of course, online providers like YouTube provide a beneficial, easily accessed means through which people can hear a wide range of music, such as early jazz and dance music, which they might not be readily exposed to otherwise. Often, individual collectors will transfer and upload recordings from their own private collections of 78s, and accompany these with well produced videos. In this respect, the rise of online providers such as YouTube offers a positive additional means by which music can be accessed and enjoyed.

On the downside, several small specialist companies I know well, which release CDs of 1920s and 1930s music, tell me that many of their CDs have been ripped and the individual tracks then supplied to well known online streaming/music download companies (no connection to YouTube) by third parties without the permission of the original company, who receive nothing by way of financial compensation when the tunes are subsequently downloaded by customers (who pay a fee to the online streaming company for the digital download). The owner of one of these small companies has told me that it is ruining his CD sales and that despite protestations the online providers have, as yet, done nothing to remove the tracks concerned.

It is perhaps telling that the US market has experienced a drop in CD album sales (as opposed to singles) across all music genres from 800 million in 2002 to just 316 million in 2012, with most analysts identifying cheap or free streaming services as the main reason for the broad declines. The market for CD reissues of 1920s and 1930s jazz in miniscule as it is, and with few radio stations playing the music nowadays to encourage new audiences, sales are shrinking at an alarming rate.

The situation that small specialist CD labels find themselves in does not bode well. Indeed, a number have ceased trading in recent years, and it is highly likely that others, including ones that forumites will be very familiar with, will follow within the next few years. Meanwhile, the major record companies are totally disinterested in this specialist market, and one can hardly blame them when such CDs often only generate sales in the low to mid-hundreds.



Posted on Nov 7, 2013, 9:16 AM

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Re: Sandmen and Streams of Avarice

by

I had no idea (but am not totally surprised) to learn that when a person downloads one or two songs from a CD from, say Amazon, the individual tunes could have been ripped without compensation to the producer. I've never downloaded an album from a free/sharing source. I've just paid the $.89-.99 charge for each song, but I agree that a share of that would not be fair compensation to the producer of a 1920s music album.

I've sometimes been guilty of being so eager to get my ears on some albums that I downloaded the whole thing on the spot instead of ordering the physical CD and waiting for it. I won't do that again.

Posted on Nov 7, 2013, 9:44 AM

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Up the Amazon

by Nick Dellow



Amazon is not one of the online providers that I am - albeit obliquely - referring to in my previous post. Just wanted to make that clear.




Posted on Nov 7, 2013, 10:37 AM

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Credit where credit is due!

by

With modern computers and readily available software, it has become child's play to copy and paste or rip and ulpoad. Of course, as a trained scientist, I insist that sources be supplied with the postings. Unfortunately, few people bother with this.

Albert



Posted on Nov 7, 2013, 3:40 PM

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Re: Credit Where Credit Is Due!

by

One problem with online photos or writings is that the copyright owner (if any) is not easy to know. When you see a photo in a book or periodical, there is usually a caption with photo credits, or a list of photo credits somewhere in the text. There is rarely such a caption online.

For example, Albert, you posted a high-resolution photo of the Wolverines yesterday. If I were to want to use it, I could just credit it to your site, but I really have no way to know if indeed it is out of copyright (given its age, it would by now not be copyrighted to the original photographer). If the photo has been edited in any way, does the copyright then belong to the person or entity who made those changes and published it online? What about photos that have never been published? Do they "belong" to the owner of the physical original once they are posted on a website not maintained by the owner, or does the online image then "belong" to the site? This can get pretty complex, especially if such photos go from screen to screen. If I go to a site called, for example, "Vintage Photos of Seattle" and there is nothing that says the photos may not be copied, can we assume they are in public domain? Or do they "belong" to the organization behind that website? How could a well-meaning person find out? Many such sites have no "Contact Us" buttons that would lead to even an e-mail address. Outside of authors and editors publishing print items, that is why, as you say, "few people bother."

Most people will follow rules if everyone knows and agrees to them. If anyone has a brief guide that non-lawyers might follow for sharing photos and other such items, I'd like to see it.

Posted on Nov 14, 2013, 1:52 PM

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The flipside of Japanese Sandman.

by

Smiles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReugFY8c5Ug&feature=youtu.be

The record label, thanks to Han Endeman.

[linked image]

Again, just "Annette" credited.

Albert



Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 5:43 AM

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Do you remember Frank Black?

by

From http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1298061827/A+1928+Broadcast+of+Bix+Beiderbecke%92s+%93In+A+Mist-%94+A+Fantastic+Discovery+by+Nick%21%21 

The Atlanta Constitution of  June 23, 1928 reported that "Frank Black, pianist, will play Beiderbeckes In A Mist with orchestral accompaniment." The broadcast tookThe Palmolive ensemble under the direction of Gustave Haenschen, will tng selections from the new motion lt i, picture, "The King of Jazz."  place in the RCA Demonstration Hour between 1:30 pm  and 2:30 pm on June 23, 1928 over WSR and other radio stations in the NBC chain.

More information about this in the posting cited above. I found a little more. Note this is an Apeda photo.

[linked image]

Palmolive Ensemble Rehearsal_Frank Black, Olive Palmer, Paul Oliver (Frank Munn)Apeda_Radio Revue Dec 1929.jpg 

From the Indiana Gazette, June 4, 1930. "The Palmolive Ensemble under the direction of Gustave Haenschen, will bring selections from the new motion picture, "The King of Jazz."

From Wikipedia, The Palmolive Hour was a critically acclaimed radio concert hour in the USA, sponsored by Palmolive Soap and broadcast on NBC from December 9, 1927 to July 29, 1931. The Palmolive Musical Stock Company (aka the Palmolivers) offered a mix of jazz, show tunes and opera selections.The program usually opened with a duet by Frank Munn and soprano Virginia Rea. To call attention to the sponsor's product, they did not appear on the program under their own names but instead were introduced each week as Paul Oliver and Olive Palmer. Contralto Elizabeth Lennox was featured in duets with Rea. Gus Haenschen led the orchestra with Frank Black at the piano.
 
Frank Black with the Revelers.
[linked image]
 
Frank Black at the piano accompanyng Frnak Munn and Virginia Rea.
 
[linked image]
 
I remind you from http://www.gracyk.com/fenton.shtml  (terrific article, highly recommended)
 
Excerpt from POPULAR AMERICAN RECORDING PIONEERS: 1895-1925, by Tim Gracyk. The book was published in late 2000.

"Carl Fenton" (at first Walter Haenschen, later Reuben Greenberg) was among the most important recording directors of the 1920s, functioning for the popular Brunswick label as Nat Shilkret did for Victor. Fenton shaped Brunswick's sound of that era more than any other Brunswick musician and remained an important figure in the music world for decades, becoming important on radio shows after he left the recording business. He worked with most of America's best musicians from 1920 through the 1940s.

In the 1920s, no musician was actually named Carl Fenton though that name appeared on many Brunswick labels of the decade. Finally, in 1932, Reuben Greenberg changed his name to Carl Fenton. See the end of this article for more information about Greenberg."

There is plenty more in the internet.

Albert



Posted on Nov 1, 2013, 1:54 PM

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More about Frank Black.

by

Date of Birth: 11/28/1894
Birthplace: Philadelphia, PA
Date of Death: 1/29/1968
Profession: conductor

A list of radio programs with an orchestra conducted by Frank Black in

http://www.otrrpedia.net/getpersonF.php?PN=778

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 1, 2013 2:39 PM

Posted on Nov 1, 2013, 2:21 PM

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Very clever...

by John Leifert

Did you notice that the pseudonyms "Paul Oliver" and "Olive Palmer" are both plays on the word PALMOLIVE ?? It didn't occur to me until I just saw here that they were on the Palmolive (radio) Hour at that time! Oh, those clever 20s ad-men...

Gorgeous color photograph of the broadcast, BTW, very rare for that time.

John L

Posted on Nov 1, 2013, 5:21 PM

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Yes, the 1920s ad men were very creative.

by

How was Paul Whiteman described in a New York Times, Oct 2, 1921 ad? Get a load of the words and phrases in this ad!

supreme magician
paradisal
sweet and stirring strains
witchery

 

Albert



Posted on Nov 1, 2013, 5:32 PM

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Another caricature of Bix.

by

From http://www.nationaljazzarchive.co.uk/events?id=424

100 years of jazz in 99 minutes

[linked image]

Albert

 



Posted on Nov 1, 2013, 10:38 AM

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I Know Most of These People

by

Okay, so starting with Bix, and going clockwise, there's Bird, Billie, Duke, Benny, Satchmo, Diz, and Fats. Who's the guy in the middle, with the big frames and the 'fro?

Posted on Nov 2, 2013, 11:29 AM

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I don't know, but what I know is that the ....

by

.... eight guys you recognized were all inducted in the Ertegun Jazz Hall of Fame in 2004 and 2005.

A useless observation: the people in the image are either playing an instrument, singing, or smiling, except for Bix.

Albert



Posted on Nov 2, 2013, 12:21 PM

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Re: I don't know, but what I know is that the ....

by

Benny looks blissful and Bix looks modestly pleased, as they should, since they were the only white musicians to make it over the color line in that group. I'm not being critical of their awards, since I don't really know the racial ratio of their inductees and don't really want to go there, since that subject is an old hot chestnut not worth arguing about further and since the all the people named above are certainly worthy.

Is the guy in the middle supposed to be Miles Davis? He is usually shown wearing shades, not 1970s-style glasses, but the link below shows album covers, one of which, third from left on the lower row, does show similar regular glasses. Miles did have a big smile, too but I couldn't find a photo with big glasses, big smile, and big Afro!

http://www.milesdavis.com/us/home



Posted on Nov 2, 2013, 3:03 PM

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Paul Whiteman and the ODJB in the same bill?

by

Look at this ad for the appearance of Paul Whiteman's World's Famous Orchestra and the ODJb in the Casino in Reading, PA.

[linked image]

However, this was not the main Whiteman orchestra. The main Whiteman orchestra had an engagement at the Palais Royal  in New York City for the week of Apr 17-23, 1922. Note the fine print under "Paul Whiteman's World Famous Orchestra': "Under direction of Al Burt." Who was Al Burt? Al Burt was a dance band leader in the 1920s. Listen to one of his recordings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYg5UyKsDkM

and look at an ad for Al Burt's appearance at the Blue Bird Dancing.

[linked image]

Note the the band is presented by Paul Whiteman, Inc. I will make the guess that Al Burt's band was one of the bands managed by the Whiteman organization.

Here is the cover of sheet music with a photo of Burt's band.

[linked image]

and a closeup of the band.

[linked image]

Listen to "Twinkling Star" in the LOC jukeboox site.

http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/recordings/detail/id/8849/

Under the date in the Whiteman-OdJB ad, I read "Conducted by Duke Monahan." Who is he?

Albert





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 31, 2013 1:22 PM

Posted on Oct 31, 2013, 1:19 PM

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I Didn't Know

by

I am sure you know that all 5 takes of Goldkette's recording of the tune in the title, waxed in Detroit on portable equipment on Nov 24, 1924, were rejected. Bix had a solo and it has been speculated that all takes  were rejected because ,(Paul Mertz's account) King was "anti-jazz." This has been discussed extensively in the forum. Listen to the recording.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2imcZSc1-w

I don't think that Bix's solo is that jazzy/hot and stays close to the melody; Bix's solo does not seeem to me to be hotter than Tommy Dorsey's solo on trombone or Joe Venuti's solo on violin.

I am putting the final touches on an article about this recording and I decided to listen to dance band recordings supervised by Eddie King during his trip to the midwest with Victor portable equipment.

Nov 21, 1924, Minneapolis Dick Long and His Cafe Nankin Orchestra
http://victor.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/matrix/detail/800005420
http://victor.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/matrix/detail/800005421

Are the cornet solos "polite" (a la Busse and Farrar) as supposedly Eddie King wanted? Opinions please. Thanks.

Albert



Posted on Oct 28, 2013, 1:43 PM

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Re: Hot or Not?

by

To my ears, the major difference is not "hotness." Bix's playing on "I Didn't Know" is clearly not hot in the way "Big Boy" or "Susie" is. The major difference is in the style of the two big bands in question.

The saxophone break (Murray?) is probably the "hottest" (improvised) interval in the Goldkette piece. Nevertheless, the Victor band plays in a looser, more open, swinging style; The Café Nankin Orchestra plays in the earlier "novelty orchestra" style--the kind of kitschy music that movies and television shows plant in the background to let you know the setting is in the twenties--tink-a-plink-a-plink rhythms, lots of eighth and sixteenth notes, and "tricky" muted horn touches.

Perhaps that's the "kind of jazz" Eddie King expected or wanted to hear in his recordings.

Posted on Oct 29, 2013, 5:14 AM

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Bix's Solo in "I Didn't Know."

by Nick Dellow

Attached is Bix's solo in Jean Goldkette's "I Didn't Know" with the damage that affects the solo removed. Without the defects to distract us, I think we can now hear how good a solo it really is.
 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/docwk0ernm6p1c7/IDidntKnowSoloRestoredNickDellow.wav
  
Though the tune is banal, Bix's innate sense of harmony and subtle inflections - micro-bending of notes and a wonderful sense of timing, amongst other aspects (e.g. clean attacking of the notes) - allows him to create a little gem of a solo. Maybe it is a bit rough-hewn here and there, but it still sparkles.
 




    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 29, 2013 10:21 AM

Posted on Oct 29, 2013, 7:15 AM

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From my article in progress.

by

In a January 1962 review for Gramophone of the RCA Victor album The Bix Beiderbecke Legend, Brian Rust writes about the finding of the metal master of I Didnt Know: This find, buried in the Victor vaults for 37 years, is included on the first of the above LPs despite a blemish on the master that causes a vicious swishing sound throughout the first half, but which fortunately fades out just in time for Bix's solo. The impression one receives on hearing it is that this is not Bix at all. Then, after listening to the tracks by the Wolverines on the Riverside LPthe last two of them made only six weeks earlier, we realise that this was Bix, playing his first big-band date and probably somewhat under restraint. The purity of tone is there, but the reckless, rolling phrases do not tumble out of his cornet as they do on the Wolverines tracks. He was, in fact, on his best behaviour, but he needn't have worried. The company rejected all five attempts at recording the number (it's an attractive little melody, by the way, with a half-chorus of Tommy Dorsey's trombone just before the Bix solo).

 

I am afraid I must disagree with the late Brian Rust. The 14-bar cornet solo in Goldkettes I Didnt Know is quintessential Bix: his sensibility and pure tone are omnipresent, his powerful imagination and characteristic economy of notes are in evidence as are Bixs contradictory emotions of optimism and melancholy often found in his cornet solos.

Albert


Posted on Oct 29, 2013, 10:48 AM

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Re: Solo

by

I agree that the "I Don't Know" solo is definitely the Bix we know all the way through to "Georgia On My Mind." Tone aside, this solo shows that sort of alchemy that he had to intuit the heart of the melody and distill it into a few well-chosen notes. Even when he improvises far from the actual tune, he gives us the essence of the song. (See his solos on the Whiteman and Trumbauer versions of "Love Nest" or his striking interjections into "That's My Weakness Now," which otherwise would have been a nice but way too coochie-coo cutesy a song.)

Posted on Oct 29, 2013, 11:08 AM

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"I Didn't Know" . . . from Brian Rust's radio show

by

In August 1981 on London's Capitol Radio, on his "Mardis Gras" weekly programme, Brian dedicated the hour long show to mark the 50th anniversary of Bix's death.
Brian's brief comment before playing the record:
A record Bix made with Goldkette in 1924 was "I Didn't Know" which was rejected for issue and a moldering master was eventually rescued in 1959 for issue on LP. It had deteriorated badly and a distressing swish mars the first part of it, but during Bix's solo the noise stops and we can hear him as Hoagy Carmichael heard him at a campus dance that year and was shattered by the experience.

Posted on Oct 29, 2013, 1:28 PM

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Re: "I Didn't Know" . . . from Brian Rust's radio show

by Nick Dellow


"....a distressing swish mars the first part of it, but during Bix's solo the noise stops...."


That is not quite correct. The swish doesn't actually stop until a few seconds after Bix's solo.

As Brian Rust indicates, the swish was the result of corrosion developing on the original metal master due to it being incorrectly stored.



Posted on Oct 29, 2013, 3:24 PM

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Why Was Roy Eldridge So Lukewarm About Bix?

by

I was reading John Chilton's *Roy Eldridge, Little Jazz Giant* and on a couple of occasions in the book Chilton makes it clear that Eldridge didn't think too highly of Bix:

***

p. 31

"The work of cornettist Bix Beiderbecke, a white contemporary of Joe Smith, never won Roy over, and throughout his life he could never be more than lukewarm about Bix's playing. In 1943 he said:

"'Bix Beiderbecke has become a historical personality and some people rate him right up there with Louis Armstrong. I heard Bix a couple of times in Detroit [May 1928]. I thought he had a very pretty tone but I wasn't greatly impressed otherwise, and when I found out later about Bix's great reputation, I was surprised.'

"Thirty-four years later (in 1977), Roy hadn't changed his assessment: 'He didn't get to me, no kinda way. I much prefer Bobby Hackett's playing.'"


p. 387 (referring to a 1960 recording)

"On a bouncy version of Sweet Sue, Roy re-created part of a Bix Beiderbecke solo (recorded with Paul Whiteman in 1928). Much was made of this by some critics, who linked Roy with the work of the late, lamented cornettist, but Roy was adamant that he had never been influenced by Beiderbecke, and on the album he simply inserted part of an arrangement he had performed with Speed Webb's Band in 1930. As if to underline his point he moves from Beiderbecke's phrases into a theme that he and Coleman Hawkins had devised on the chords of Sweet Sue."

***

Does anyone want to speculate on why Eldridge was so negative toward Bix? I don't think race is an adequate explanation. Eldridge expressed admiration for a number of white trumpet players, especially Bunny Berigan (and as indicated above, Bobby Hackett). He acknowledged his early debt to Red Nichols, from whose records he undoubtedly learned a lot about clean articulation. (He did make it clear though that he regarded his real influences as saxophonists, above all Coleman Hawkins and Benny Carter.) So it's not clear what he had against Bix--maybe the latter wasn't at his best when Eldridge heard him perform in Detroit in 1928? What's ironic is not only that (1) when Eldridge was with Speed Webb the band (unrecorded, alas) performed arrangements by Goldkette and Whiteman as well as Nichols, so Eldridge presumably played other Bix solos besides Sweet Sue, but also that (2) Bix himself pioneered "saxophone-like" playing (something for which Eldridge would become famous) on cornet with Whiteman recordings like China Boy.

One should note that Eldridge was sometimes disingenuous about who had influenced him; for example, Chilton rightly dismisses Eldridge's claim not to have listened closely to Louis Armstrong until 1932. Gunther Schuller has likewise questioned Eldridge's claim never to have been influenced by Red Allen; a piece like Florida Stomp belies that claim, Schuller writes. So perhaps Eldridge was more influenced by Bix than he let on (or even realized)--though of course his mature style (which he had reached by the time of his first recordings) was very much his own.

Posted on Oct 27, 2013, 12:13 AM

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Some of the quotes in your interesting posting ....

by

.... are found in old postings (almost two decades ago, I can't believe it!!).

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1105723763/Bix%2C+Roy+Elrdidge%2C+and+Sweet+Sue-

The question you raise is very significant. We know that Bix was admired and liked my most musicians who came in contact with him, either personally or through his records. So, what the heck is wrong with Roy Eldridge? In particular because one of his heroes was Rex Stewart, who knew Bix and had nothing but praise for him.

I hate to get int psycho babble, but here are some off the cuff remarks.

Jealousy. Roy played with several of the musicians who knew Bix: Gene Krupa, Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman, Benny Carter, Bunny Berigan, Tommy Dorsey, probably others. Maybe Eldridge became jealous because of musicians expressing their unwavering admiration for Bix's genius.

Contrarian. Apparently, Eldridge was an irascible individual. Because so many musicians were Bix fans, he would adopt an antagonistic position.

I don't believe I wrote the above for public consumption. Pure, unadulterated speculation. Maybe others have rational and toughtful explanations.

Albert



Posted on Oct 27, 2013, 1:00 PM

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Re: Some of the quotes in your interesting posting ....

by Professor Hot Stuff

My take is that Bix mostly played with a sweet sound and Roy had more of an in-your-face brassy tone so they probably just had way different views on how the cornet/trumpet should sound. Listen to Roy with Shaw at this link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r9gyxabuBc Note the contrast on Summertime between Shaw's solo and Roy's very different kind of solo right after. If Roy wanted to try playing sweet, the time to have done that would have been right after Shaw's solo, but that's just my personal view.

Posted on Oct 28, 2013, 6:06 AM

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Roy Eldridge's Sweet Sue

by Nick Dellow

Here is Roy Eldridge's version of "Sweet Sue, Just You", recorded in 1960. For a trumpet player who apparently wasn't impressed by Bix, it might seem odd that he would bother to record a version of "Sweet Sue" that for the first two thirds pays respect to Bix's solo in the Whiteman version of the number (very nicely done) and which then devotes the last third to riffing on its harmonic themes! And this at a time when almost everyone else had forgotten about Bix's solo!
 
Roy seems to be enjoying himself - I'm guess that's him clicking his fingers at the very start!
 
 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q0e2rizhkto0yqx/RoyEldridgeSweetSue.mp3
 
 
I agree with Albert that Roy Eldridge would often adopt an antagonistic position. In fact, a lot of these jazz musicians were rather irascible about fellow musicians, especially when pressed by journalists, but I think some of their assertions should be taken with a pinch of salt. When it comes to playing the music, many of the perceived differences dissolve as quickly as salt dissolves in hot water. There's a great recording session in the late 1950s with Ben Webster and Gerry Mulligan. The disparaging remarks Webster makes about Mulligan and his swimming pool are captured on the master tape that continued to record in-between tracks, but so is the wonderful music that follows, which is sublime and empathetic.


Posted on Oct 28, 2013, 6:13 AM

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Re: Irascible

by

It's easy to understand how a musician like Eldridge, who during his career had to come in through the back door, actually and figuratively, might get a bit hot under the collar with Bix fans. He's probably, thinking "Why are you asking me about that guy way back then? He had it pretty easy really, white guy, hot player back then with all that loose money, girls crazy for jazz dancing, and all! I'm the one out here now, busting my chops. Gimme a break!"

Nick Dellow is right, though, when it comes right down to the notes, Eldridge thought they were worthy.

Posted on Oct 28, 2013, 1:11 PM

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A really charming record

by

I just heard the 1960 Roy Eldridge "Sweet Sue" and I loved it! It's a really charming record and shows one jazz master playing around with the recorded solo of another, creating a beautiful commentary on Bix's solo masterpiece (about the rest of the Whiteman-Bix record, the less said the better -- when I read that Bill Challis was the arranger I had a hard time believing someone that creative could have turned out something that silly, and when I first heard Jack Fulton's vocal in 1969, at the height of Tiny Tim's popularity, I thought, "So Tiny Tim isn't a joke after all! That's actually an historically appropriate way to perform his material!") and showing his obvious love of the musical imagination that created Bix's solo.

It did occur to me after the previous threads, though, that perhaps Eldridge never knew he was basing his solo on Bix's! When he made the 1932 "Sweet Sue" he may have just been reading the solo from a chart whose arranger had copied Bix, and he may have remembered that solo 28 years later and still not realized Bix had originated it.

Posted on Oct 28, 2013, 5:50 PM

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O Sue, O Tempora, O Mores (whatever that means...)

by

That Challis / Whiteman "Sweet Sue" arrangement sure has taken its lumps from the critics over the years. Such choice adjectival brickbats as "Pompous," "Bloated," "Pretentious" and "Over-Wrought" - among others - have been hurled at it, cunningly brightening the contrast with Bix's solo, variously described as "a breath of fresh air," "a diamond in the paste," "light-years removed" etc. etc.

Ah, what the hell. Cut off my legs and call me Shorty, but I've always LOVED that arrangement. The whole record is entertaining and funny and quite musically worthwhile from start to finish. I am never tempted to skip over the "Dross" (another nice epithet) and listen only to Bix's immortal chorus. One either digs "Symphonic Jazz" or one doesn't.

Albert, where is that fantastic Melody Maker article (SERIES of articles!) about "Sweet Sue," that is an extended paean of praise for the complete production, especially Bix?

-Brad K





Posted on Oct 31, 2013, 5:10 PM

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Your wish is my command.

by

The link to the first posting in the thread of interest.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1254497794/%26quot%3BSweet+Sue%26quot%3B-+an+11-page+analysis%21%21%21

The direct link to the article.

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/SweetSue/MMReviewSweetSue.html

Albert





Posted on Oct 31, 2013, 7:21 PM

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Whew!

by

Thirteen pages of analysis of the Whiteman/Bix "Sweet Sue"! It would take longer to read all this than it does to listen to the record itself. One thing that's nice to read in Al Davison's third part is, "There is no doubt that Bix is a born genius." Not "was," "is." So much for the oft-repeated legend that Bix's genius was never acknowledged in print in his lifetime!

RE Jack Fulton: When I first heard "Sweet Sue" I was immediately put off by the bizarre quality of his voice, and I still think Whiteman would have been better off if he'd given the vocal assignment to Bing Crosby (who sang jazz and non-jazz material equally well), but I've grown to have a rather campy affection for him. I don't hate him -- he's certainly better than Frank Bessinger, Irving Kaufman and some of the other foghorns that afflicted Bix's records with Goldkette and Trumbauer -- but his style of singing is very much of its time, whereas Bix and Bing are timeless.

Posted on Nov 1, 2013, 6:42 AM

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The King of Bixonia is pleased to see ....

by

.... that second-class citizen Mark Gabrish Conlan is beginning to see the light. With further progress, second-class citizen Mark has a good chance to be promoted to first-class citizenship.

King Albert the First
Sovereign Kingdom of Bixonia
The Home of WBIX
[linked image]



Posted on Nov 1, 2013, 8:04 AM

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Re: The King's Pleasure

by

At the risk of a life-time tenure in second-class citizenship, I have to agree with Mark's freedom of speech here, suggesting that Bing Crosby would have been a far better choice for "Sweet Sue." Bix and Bing are timeless giants, and Bix's genius would be better set off for the ages without Fulton's warbling tenor, tied for eternity to the twenties pop style.

Those of you who have Bix Restored, Volume V (which should be subtitled "Bix and the Bixians") will know that there is a delightful recording by Bing, with Lennie Hayton on piano, showing just what he could do with "Sweet Sue."

Posted on Nov 2, 2013, 7:56 AM

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Freedom of expression is sacred here.

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King Albert I is an extreme libertarian and protects freedom of speech at all costs.

Bing's version of Sweet Sue is available here. So different from Whiteman's, but both terrific; this is, in my opinion, the manifestation of the fact that Victor Young's composition is fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzlhXXeP8lI

I believe people have commented that Bing's scatting is strongly inspired by Bix's genius for improvisation. Indeed, it is.

Albert



Posted on Nov 2, 2013, 10:03 AM

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Re: Whew!

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So, now Bessinger and Kaufman are "foghorns?" Right, the record-buying public of the 'teens and 'twenties was so misguided.

I agree as to the "timeless" element. The same way that Jimmie Rodgers is timeless, and someone like Frankie Marvin, with his thin little warble, is no more than a second-rate imitator.

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 8:44 AM

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"Misguided"?

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I don't think record buyers in the 'teens and twenties were necessarily "misguided." They certainly weren't "misguided" when they made Jimmie Rodgers a superstar! In his six-year recording career (about the same length as Bix's) he had many hits and helped found an entirely new style of music. Rodgers influenced singers as different as Woody Guthrie and Gene Autry, and even when he sang a banal tear-jerker his sincerity and soul made it believable. (I disagree with you on Frankie Marvin; he's hardly in Rodgers' class but he's more than a "second-rate imitator" and, like Rodgers, he had a strong enough sense of jazz and blues to make credible records with African-American musicians.)

Nor were they "misguided" when they made Gene Austin's 1927 "My Blue Heaven" the best-selling record of anything until Bing Crosby's "White Christmas" 15 years later. Austin was a MUCH bigger star than Bessinger or Kaufman in the 1920's and his records show not only an eloquent ballad singer (to my mind his second-biggest hit, "Ramona," is even better than "My Blue Heaven") but also a surprising flair for jazz (check out his version of "Sweet Sue," the song that started this thread!). It's a real pity Austin and Bix never recorded together!

I can't know how 1920's audiences reacted to these records or what they liked, or didn't like, about them. I can note my own reactions from the early 1970's, when I first started collecting Bix's records and how lame the vocals sounded, and how I've responded to them since. Some vocals that struck me as terrible when I first heard them, like Lewis James on the Bix-Goldkette "Blue River," have grown on me over time; as silly as the song's lyrics are, James uses them to create the romantic mood the writers intended and does a far better job than Smith Ballew did on the Bix-Trumbauer record of the same song. And some, like Bessinger's work on "Idolizing," still do nothing for me; I can't hear "Idolizing" without wishing Bessinger would shut up and let me hear Eddle Lang's amazing guitar obbligato as the solo it deserved to be.

Singers like Frank Bessinger and Irving Kaufman weren't major names in the 1920's; they were session singers who got to make records because they could learn a song quickly and belt out a reasonably acceptable vocal in the middle of a dance record. If you like them, fine. But for me it's hard to listen to them take up space on records with great jazz instrumentalists who had to cut their solos short to make room for their dated and excessively mannered (Bessinger) or ill-phrased (Kaufman) vocals.

Posted on Nov 3, 2013, 7:09 PM

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Re: Misguided

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I thoroughly agree, Mark, with the wish that those singers would just vanish and let us hear more of the music. My personal point of reference comes from straining to make out every note of Bix's obbligato behind Ballew on "Blue River." But we have to acknowledge that the record producers then wanted to sell records and sheet music, and there is a portion of the public that seems to have to have lyrics to engage with a song. Clearly, that was true then as now. All of us "sing" the lyrics to jazz songs we know in our heads even if there is no vocal, so we're not immune to the human desire to hear the "story" either.

One of the problems I've noticed with trying to get young people to appreciate any jazz (except maybe love ballads by singers) is that they just can't get their minds around plain instrumental music. "What's this song about?" they want to know. Most popular music since the 1950s has been backing a vocal line (name an instrumental by the Beetles, for example), and that's what they expect.

As I'm writing this, I'm thinking this point is a good argument for learning a musical instrument during childhood or at least listening to instrumental music early on.

Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 5:56 AM

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The Last Unequivocal Number-One Instrumental Pop Hit in the U.S.A. ...

by

...according to several pop-chart web sites, was the "Miami Vice Theme" by Jan Hammer in 1985. That's 28 years and counting.

The last instrumental record to make the Top 20 was "Auld Lang Syne (The Millennium Mix)" by Kenny G in 1999, which rose to No. 10.

The hand-wringing indictments of pop culture and degenerating musical taste I leave to you.

However, blame for the all-conquering Vocal Hegemony in pop music can definitively be pinned on James C. Petrillo, President of the American Federation of Musicians, who in August, 1942 commenced a musicians' strike against the commercial recording industry. He wanted Victor, Columbia and Decca to compensate for the live playing jobs lost to juke boxes in countless bars and restaurants. It was a nasty strike, lasting until November, 1944.

Singers were the Achilles' Heel in this fracas, for only players of instruments were members of AFM. Even singers with absolute pitch, who could sight-read and imitate instruments, were not "musicians," and thus exempt from the strike. So Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Ginny Simms and the like went on making commercial records all through the strike, using a capella choral backing. When it was over, record buyers said, in effect, to the Big Bands, "Where were you when we needed you?" From then till now, singers have ruled the pop music universe.

-Brad K

Posted on Nov 4, 2013, 10:50 AM

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Re: The Last Instrumental....

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That was a great summary, Mr. Kay. Thank you for the historical harmony for the no-lyrics no-hit blues I was singing. It's is too bad Mr. Petrillo didn't have the foresight to get those crooners signed up for the union a couple of decades earlier while they were fewer and weaker in clout.

But there's hope for anyone to learn to appreciate music without words. People still listen to Bach's instrumental compositions, after all. A lot of us fans grew up after the musicians' strike and know the lyrics to an embarrassing number of songs, but still love the instrumental music of the 1920s and 1930s above all. Of course, a lot of us (those of a "certain age") grew up hearing vocalists backed by top musicians from that period, however anonymously they worked, rather than the generic sludge that currently backs a lot of singers. (No slam intended at the musicians. It's not their fault, but they know they're just the placemat, not the entre at the table.)

Posted on Nov 8, 2013, 5:34 AM

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My mistake

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It was Seger Ellis, not Smith Ballew, on the Bix-Tram "Blue River." My apologies. (Ballew was actually a cut above most of his white contemporaries in terms of vocal beauty and jazz phrasing.)

Posted on Nov 18, 2013, 7:19 AM

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What a Great Damn Article

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Yes, SO NICE to read this amazing article again! Despite Mr. Davison's disclaimer at the very end of part four, that the "forgoing analysis is, believe me, much more abbreviated than the record deserves," it is the MOST thoroughgoing musical scrutiny of any dance/jazz record I've ever seen published prior to the book Early Jazz by Gunther Schuller (1968).

To fully appreciate the analysis, you must listen to the record and savor each moment as you read Davison's description. When you do that, the big arrangement, deprecated so often by so many later writers, becomes a fascinating work of art.

His remarks about Bix are, of course, shockingly right-on, and amazingly prescient in terms of jazz appreciation, besides his apt analysis of the cornet solo itself. And his words read like maybe this isn't the first time Mr. Davison ever wrote about Bix Beiderbecke. Can someone please check other issues of Melody Maker?

Davison also unhesitatingly credits Bix with the celesta obbligato behind Jack Fulton's vocal. I have read that the celeste actually was played by Lennie Hayton, though for the longest time it was credited to Bix. Is that a done deal? Are we POSITIVE that Hayton, not Bix, played it? There are many characteristic moments that remind me strongly of Bix's piano playing, especially the fast 16th and 8th note triadic run (bars 11, 12 and 13 in Davison's transcription [Ex. 13]). There is a moment just like it in "For No Reason at All in C," when Bix careens chordally down the keyboard in just that way.

Of course, if it IS Bix on celeste, he had only about ten seconds to stand, switch to his horn, re-set his brain and do the solo. So maybe it's Lennie after all.

Anyway, my appreciation of this whole performance grew exponentially after first reading this piece in 2009. Again, thank you, Rob Rothberg and Albert, for digging it up, scanning and posting it.

Any chance Bix himself saw it in '29? Didn't he have fans in England who would have tossed it across The Pond?

-Brad K

Posted on Nov 2, 2013, 1:57 AM

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I love Jack Fulton's vocal.

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Unlike most of you, I think Jack Fulton was a superb vocalist. I am not a jazz snob and feel no obligation to say that if it is not hot, it is not good. As I said in another post, I love sweet music and I adore Fulton's high tenor voice/falsetto. Two other singers from the 1930s with high tenor voices are my all-time favorites: the Corsican Tino Rossi (my wife's favorite singer of French songs; Tino Rossi recorded one of my favorite songs in the whole wide world, "Le secret de tes caresses" in a tango tempo) and the Italian Alberto Rabagliati who started recording with the Lecuona Cuban Boys in 1934 (Enrico kindly sent me a couple of CDs with Rabagliati singing; great stuff). Jack Fulton's vocals with Whiteman are highlighted in Don Rayno's splendid Whiteman biography. In the index pages you will find an entry entitled "Jack Fulton, recordings by Whiteman, prominent vocals on."

[linked image]

Tomorrow, the music file.

Albert




Posted on Oct 31, 2013, 8:15 PM

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The Music File.

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Tino Rossi - Le secret de tes caresses

bixbeiderbecke.com/lesecretdetescaresses.mp3

And get a load of this song by Alberto Rabagliati: Maria la O in tango tempo. Great transfer and upload by Enrico.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdI5GFMBueY

 

Albert

 


 





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Nov 1, 2013 8:47 AM

Posted on Nov 1, 2013, 7:23 AM

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Another lovely vocal by Jack Fulton.

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Lover Come Back To Me - Composed by Sigmund Romberg, Frank Mandel, Oscar Hammerstein II - Recorded Feb 7, 1929 - Col 1731-D - Arranged by Ferde Grofe

Lovely subtone clarinet by Chester Hazlett and listen to them bells. Grofe's arrangement  had Austin Young on vocal, but the night before the recording session, Young left the band. From Don Rayno, "Recent articles in the press had contained mildly sardonic references to Whiteman's large income. As a gag, Young showed up at the theatre dressed in an opera cape and sporting a gold-handled cane. Whiteman was not amused. He curtly ordered the singer to divest himself of the offensive articles or consider himself fired. Offended by Whiteman's peremptory tone, Young resigned on the spot."

https://archive.org/download/PaulWhiteman1920-1935CompleteCollection/LoverComeBackToMe.mp3

Albert



Posted on Nov 2, 2013, 6:58 AM

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More about "Lover, Come Back To Me."

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[linked image] 

[linked image]

From Wikipedia:
"Lover, Come Back to Me" is a popular song. The music was written by Sigmund Romberg with lyrics by Oscar Hammerstein II for the Broadway show The New Moon, where the song was introduced by Evelyn Herbert and Robert Halliday (as Robert Misson). The song was published in 1928. Its middle section is based on "June: Barcarolle" from Tchaikovsky's The Seasons, opus 37b.

Listen to Tchaikovsky's June: Barcarolle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBDAklpf8X4

Lover, Come Back to Me was recorded by a ton of performers. Of course, my favorite version is Annette Hanshaw's with Mike Mosiello, Andy Sannella, ?Ben Selvin, Rube Bloom, Joe Tarto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J5MOQbW2EY

The Dorsey Brothers recorded a "concert" version with Smith Ballew on vocal.

https://archive.org/download/1920s-dorseyBrothers-11-14/DorseyBrothersVsmithBallew-

Albert



Posted on Nov 2, 2013, 9:39 AM

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Re: Irascible

by Nick Dellow


Roy Eldridge was just an irascible sort of guy. It was in his nature. His attitude in this respect was the same towards black musicians as it was towards white. He was also very competitive, which is hardly a crime for a jazz musician!, but as a result he disliked musicians being elevated to idolatry status by their followers. When Dizzy Gillespie was becoming well known and other musicians started to follow him and play in his style - and wear the idiosyncratic clothing that codified the be-bop world - Roy Eldridge remained resolutely unimpressed. He would have been equally unimpressed by the idolisation of Bix by his legions of fans. John Chilton, who worked with the trumpeter as well as writing his biography, said that Eldridge hated feeling that he was on the outside of a clique, which is an understandable reaction for someone who had been at the head of the pack and then felt that almost overnight he had lost out to some young upstart. Jazz can be a very fickle world.

Dizzy Gillespie recalled that "Roy didn't treat me too well. Sometimes I'd meet him in front of the Three Deuces and say, "Hey, Roy." He'd make like he didn't hear me.....Roy Eldridge is the most competitive musician I'd ever seen. Roy used to come into places, and we're on the bandstand, the younger trumpeters, playing gentlemanly. He'd take out his horn at the door and start on a high B flat. One night we were standing outside a club and Roy said, "Come on, let's go inside and blow". And I told him, "Roy, would you mind if I went in by myself and played a while first? 'Cause when you get up to play, you don't know how to act!"

Actually, I think that high note entry into establishments was more or less just a showbiz catchphrase of Roy's that he often used - he does it in the short movie "After Hours" (1961) with Coleman Hawkins. Moreover, Dizzy's remarks about Roy seem to me to be a little bit pompous coming from such a high note showman himself! But there we are - competitive jazz musicians and their somewhat irascible natures! In fact, they both respected and admired each other's playing, just as no doubt did Eldridge when it came to Bix.





    
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 29, 2013 5:59 AM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Oct 29, 2013 5:58 AM

Posted on Oct 29, 2013, 5:04 AM

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