The Bixography Discussion Group
A vehicle for Bixophiles and other interested individuals to ask questions, make comments and exchange information about Bix Beiderbecke and related subjects.
Any views expressed in the Bixography Forum represent solely the opinions of those expressing them and are not necessarily endorsed or opposed by Albert Haim unless he has signed the message.
I started archiving some of the threads that have been inactive for some time.
The archived threads can be found at http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/archivesforum.htm
I started archiving some of the threads that have been inactive for some time. The archived threads can be found at http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/archivesforum.htm
We discusssed this film in 2005 and we mentioned it again a couple of months ago.
The film is now available on youtube. See
Nice to see but the band and those arrangements, were as bad as minton's.
My "credentials" are that I played trumpet from age 8 to 30, and I've been a jazz fan and collector for 55 years.
On "Why Do I Love You", there are quite a few telltale signs that this is not Bix playing. They include attack on the notes, fluidity, and vibrato. The opening trumpet playing is certainly not Bix. It's someone with an ability to jump to higher notes with ease and fluidity, and a tighter vibrato than Bix's comes in on all the notes of longer value. This is evident in the second phrase that is played right after the sax introduces the melody, where the trumpet completes the tune. The fluid or continuous phrasing is not like Bix, and the tone is also much more like a classically-trained trumpet. Shortly after this, there is a downward triplet or grace note figure that is unlike Bix. The trumpet player then soars effortlessly higher and with vibrato, neither of which sound like Bix.
Around 1:50 in, we start to hear some staccato figures. The extension of these notes is more clipped than the fuller tones that Bix produced. Bix has a more diffuse attack on his notes and a slower vibrato. His notes sing out more and last longer.
There follows the solo somewhat in the note-style of Bix, but not entirely, and not with his tone or feeling. This trumpet player plays in a very relaxed and proficient way. His solo is more legato than Bix usually played. In the final 8 bars, he does two descending runs that don't sound like Bix at all. Mainly, although this solo is surely Bix-ish, it's the timing of the notes that differ so much from Bix. Bix tends to play with more spacing between notes and more deliberately. The opening of this solo features what almost sounds like double-tonguing as the player plays successive sixteenth notes. This too is unlike Bix.
In his sleeve notes on these two tracks (Ol' Man River" was the other), by Lou Raderman & His Pelham Heath Inn Orchestra, Brian Rust wrote in 1981,
"Lou Raderman listened to the two sides on this set not long ago, and affirmed Bix's presence. Manny Klein, the straight trumpet man on these, thought he himself had played the jazz solos, but it is my (Rust's) belief that Bix was indeed sitting in, making the second of three records he made of "Ol Man River". The style of the improvised solos on this and "Why do I love you?" is too much like Bix to be anyone else".
But this was March 1928, when Bix was at the peak of his career with Whiteman. Why would he risk moonlighting on a session with an inferior band on a record label still using the acoustic process?
Just how long is this bit of Bixing going to last? Anyone who makes the relevant comparisons between the March 1928 Lou Raderman recordings and the known works of both Bix and Mannie Klein can quickly tell that the featured soloist on the Raderman recordings isn't Bix! The double-time opening of Mannie Klein's solo on "Why Do I Love You?" sounds like NOTHING in the genuine Bix canon. "Ol' Man River" is closer to Bix's style, but the moment I set my computer to play the Raderman "Ol' Man River" and then the Bix and HIs Gang record of the same song it was obvious that the solos were by two different people: the power, imagination and genius of the genuine Bix recording were miles ahead of Klein's work on the Raderman version. I topped off the comparison with a known Klein solo on Frankie Laine's 1947 "By the River Sainte Marie" (the flip side of Laine's star-making record, "That's My Desire") and, despite the passage of 19 years, heard a solo style quite similar to that on the Raderman sides. Klein has been a particular victim of this sort of legend-mongering: for years his great work on Adrian Rollini's big-band date for Decca in October 1934 (with Benny Goodman and Jack Teagarden in the band, and two Bix songs in the repertoire, "Davenport Blues" and "Riverboat Shuffle") was misattributed to Bunny Berigan!
.... thanks for the posting.
The Mar 3, 1928 recordings of Lou Raderman and his Pelham Heath Inn orchestra have been the subject of discussion and controversy for a long time. I summarized analyses and opinions in
This is what the interior of the Inn looked like.
According to Rust (Dance Band Discography), Lou Raderman waxed several recordings on Apr 4, 1928 - There's Something About A Rose, In A Little Two By Four For Two, I'm Riding to Glory- with "possibly" Manny Klein. The records were released on Imperial as by Ernie Golden. It might be worthwhile listening to these. Does anyone have copies?
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 30, 2013 11:50 AM|
I imagine we are all familiar with the story of Bix missing the performance of Whiteman's concert in Ponca City on Nov 11, 1928. There are two versions in books and one in a newspaper.
Sudhalter and Evans. Bix arrives on time to the train station, but boards the train going in the wrong direction. When he realizes his mistake, he gets off the train and hires a pilot and a plane. Arrives on time for the afternoon concert, but falls asleep and misses the evening concert.
Evans and Evans. Bix misses the train, hires a pilot and plane, arrives on time but falls asleep and does not make it to the concert.
Don Rayno. Same as Sudhalter and Evans.
From the Dunkirk Evening Observer, Oct 27, 1938 and other newspapers. This is a third version, different than the other two.
The legend begins and gets modified as recollections of witnesses begin to fade and become embellished when they are interviewed.
The program for the concert:
I. Introduction - Yes, jazz is savage.
II. a) Sugar - Nicholas, Ager and Yellin; b) Gypsy - Gilbert, Malneck and Signorelli; c)Tiger Rag - LaRocca.
III, Concerto in F for pianoforte and orchestra -George Gershwin (scored by Ferde Grofe), Roy Bargy soloist.
IV. a) Just Like a Melody Out Of the Sky - Donaldson; b) Valse inspiration (saxophone solo) - Hazlett-Chester Hazlett; c) Melancholy Baby - Norton.
V. Metropolis (first performance) - Ferdc Grofe.
VI. Band divertissement: "Free Variations based on noises from a garage" - Ferde Grofe,Wilbur Hall- and woodwind choir.
VII. Popular request numbers: a) Chiquita - Gilbert and Wayne; b) American Tune - Henderson.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 28, 2013 10:18 AM|
What? You don't know? But, of course, they were giving a concert at the Poli Palace Theatre in Bridgeport, CT.
Here are an ad for the concert ("Positive Appearance"???) and the accompanying text (complete roster of musicians given); from the Bridgeport Telegram of Feb 17, 1923.
The 3,642 seat Poli Palace Theatre, built in 1922, was the biggest theatre in Connecticut. It does not look much from outside.
But get a load of the magnificent and opulent interior.
The theatre closed in 1976 and has fallen into disrepair.
Here is an article where the author reminisces about the past glory and laments the sorry present.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 28, 2013 12:18 PM|
From the Feb 15, 1923 issue of the Bridgeport Telegram.
The Whiteman band made several recordings around the time it gave the concert in the Poli Palace Theatre. Here are some examples.
Wonderful One - Jan 25, 1923
Fate - Jan 18, 1923
Burning Sands - Feb 27, 1923
Lady of the Evening - Jan 25, 1923
Underneath the Mellow Moon - Jan 25, 1923
Falling - Feb 2, 1923
By the Shalimar - Feb 23, 1923
Way Down Yonder in New Orleans - Feb 21, 1923
Parade of the Wooden Soldiers - Jan 2, 1923
Mister Gallagher and Mister Sheen - Jan 2, 1923
Dearest - Feb 21, 1923
And although this one is from later in the year (Sep 4, 1923), I present here because I love the song and the recording! Last Night in the Porch. Watch for the obbligato by Ross Gorman on bass clarinet.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 28, 2013 4:10 PM|
What a beautiful old building, and how sad it looks in its shabby neglect. I hate to see gorgeous old places like that go to seed -- especially when hideous modern buildings and people's disgustingly opulent McMansions go up.
Wish someone could come up with the dough to restore it to its former glory, declare it an historical landmark.
Passport photo with (second) wife Anna.
Tommy had a sister, Imogene Elizabeth, who was about eight years younger. She was the first girl cheer leader in Indiana.
Tommy was a member of the Lopez and Hamilton's Kings of Harmony in 1920. Note that the photo was taken at the Apeda studios.
Lopez and Hamilton's Kings of Harmony. Left to right: Tommy Gott, Tony White, Billy Hamilton, Vincent Lopez, Harold Geiser.
Thank you, Ann, for sending the scans and for permission to post them here.
You can hear several recordings made by this group in
Certainly influenced by the ODJB.
From the West Lebanon Gazette (Indiana), Sep 15, 1910.
An orchestra has been organized in the High School with the following instrumentation;
First ClarinetJohnie Bader.
Second ClarinetDee Green.
First ViolinCecil Patton.
Second ViolinMiss - Mode Crooks.
TromboneMiss Dortha Wood
PianoMiss Gladys Hall.
Trap DrumsMiss Ruby Day.
Nearly all the members are experienced players and the orchestra will be ready for work in a short time.
What kind of music would such a band play? The instrumentation is not that different from that of the 1920 Whiteman band: there is an extra violin and no banjo. Was that the common instrumentation for a high school band in 1910? Certainly not a marching or concert band. But perhaps about right for a small band. Here is the 1910 Greenwood, WI high school band. Very similar, except that there is no tuba.
It was interesting to see young women playing "non-girly" instruments--drums and trombone. I wonder how common it was at that time. It was more common to see females playing piano or violin, but even today, middle school and high school trombonists and percussionists are usually boys.
Check out 'The Ingenues' on Youtube.
Past clarinetists are much written of within this forum.
Among contemporary players in jazz, let me suggest
hearing Anat Cohen and Doreen Ketchens.
And finally, next time you're playing Jack Teagarden,
listen to "Meet Me Where They Play The Blues."
Perhaps my favorite of his.
Thanks, Fred. "The Ingenues" were great, but those girls with Tommy Gott were playing a decade or more earlier than 1928! By 1928 women were trying everything!
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 27, 2013 9:31 AM|
This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 27, 2013 9:11 AM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 27, 2013 9:09 AM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 27, 2013 9:07 AM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 27, 2013 9:04 AM
Radio Program # 207. (loaded on 01/26/2013) German Recordings of Bix Tunes. 64 min 43 sec
Sorry about the delay. I had a problem with my sound system and it took me longer than expected to fix it.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 26, 2013 9:41 AM|
I have a copy of the Timeless CD
Unfortunately, I can't find the booklet. Does anyone have this cd and booklet? If so, could you copy the list of musicians who recorded Fireworks and post the list here? Also, if there are any comments about the identity of the musicians in the liners, I would appreciate a transcription of what is in there. Thank you.
.... the information I need.
Does anyone have a copy of IAJRC LP # 26 and/or Historical HLP 25? The LPs include all or some of the recordings from the Original Memphis Five June 13, 1928 session - I'm More Than Satisfied, My Angeline and Fireworks. Can a kind soul copy the names of the musicians listed in the respective discographies? Thanks.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 31, 2013 7:25 AM|
.... "Hot Clarinets."
Who wrote the liners?
This version of "Fireworks" appears on an album titled "Hot Clarinets" (1970}.THE PERSONNEL GIVEN BY RUST IS CLEARLY INCORRECT. IN ADDITION TO THE USUAL QUINTET A BANJO & A BASS SAXOPHONE (ROLLINI ?]ARE CLEARLY AUDIBLE. JUDGING BY OTHER EXAMPLES OF HIS WORK, I SUGGEST THAT NAPOLEON IS NOT THE TRUMPET/CORNET ON THE DATE: IN FACT IT SOUNDS HIGHLY BIXIAN ! ANYWAY THIS IS A FANTASTIC PERFORMANCE.
On June 13, 1928, the Original Memphis Five recorded three sides for Vocalion: I'm More Than Satisfied, My Angeline and Fireworks. Discographies vary widely in the roster of musicians they assign to this session.
Rust, Jazz Discography 2002 edition - Phil Napoleon, Tommy Dorsey, Jimmy Dorsey, Hoagy Carmichael, unknown bj, Ray Bauduc.
Rust, Jazz Discography 1978 edition - Phil Napoleon, Tommy Dorsey, Jimmy Dorsey, Frank Signorelli, ? Stan King.
Lord, Jazz on line - Phil Napoleon, Tommy Dorsey, Jimmy Dorsey, Frank Signorelli, possibly Hoagy Carmichael in My Angeline, possibly Eddie Lang on guitar in Fireworks, Vic Berton.
Ross Laird, Brunswick Discography - Orch: six men.
Robert Stockdale in both the Jimmy Dorsey and Tommy Dorsey Discographies - Phil Napoleon, Tommy Dorsey, Jimmy Dorsey, Frank Signorelli, Stan King or Jack Roth.
Robert Stockdale in That's It - Studio records show that six men were involved and a banjo is heard on My Angeline leading some to suggest it is Eddie Lang.
Discography in Historical HLP 25, Hot Clarinets - Fireworks: Phil Napoleon, Jimmy Dorsey, Tommy Dorsey, Frank Signorelli, Jack Roth.
Liners in Timeless CD CBC 1-046 - Phil Napoleon, Tommy Dorsey, Jimmy Dorsey, Frank Signorelli, possibly Hoagy Carmichael in My Angeline, possibly Eddie Lang on banjo in Fireworks, Vic Berton.
These recordings are not listed in "The Fabulous Fives, A full discography of the "Six Big Fives" of early white New York jazz; Compiled by Horst H. Lange,1959, Germany.
There is no problem with the identities of trumpet, trombone and reed players: they are Phil Napoleon, Tommy Dorsey and Jimmy Dorsey, respectively.
Several problems arise with the identities of the musicians who play piano, banjo/guitar and, particularly, drums. First, here is an mp3 file with transfers of the three recordings.
Piano. Most discographies give Frank Signorelli, but there is mention of possibly Hoagy Carmichael being the pianist in My Angeline. This suggestion is easily ruled out. Hoagy was in Bloomington, LakeGage and Indianapolis from late May 1928 to the end of the year.
On June 1, 1928, Hoagy was in Bloomington receiving an honorary degree from the Book Nook administrators. Here is the diploma.
And here is a photo of Hoagy leading the Book Nook Commencement Parade.parade.
For the rest of the summer, Hoagy had a band playing in resorts such as LakeGage. By the fall of 1928, he secured a position as band leader for the prestigious Columbia Club of Indianapolis.
Banjo/Guitar. There are suggestions of the possible presence of Eddie Lang on banjo or guitar in My Angeline and in Fireworks. Rust lists an unknown banjoist for the session. Questions: 1. Do you hear a banjo and or guitar in the three recordings under consideration. I think I hear a guitar behind the alto sax solo in My Angeline. I hear a banjo in Fireworks. Please give your opinions. 2. If a banjo or guitar, can you tell if it is Eddie Lang? I just wrote to Mike Peters, the Eddie Lang specialist, and asked him for his assessment.
Drummer. This is all over the place: Ray Bauduc, Jack Roth, Vic Berton, Stan King. I asked a question about the identity of the drummer in a facebook page and two people were of the opinion that the drummer was none of the above, but Chauncey Morehouse. I also asked drummer/jazz scholar Hal Smith. He thinks it is Ray Bauduc. I cant tell, but because of my respect for Hals judgment and musicianship, I would go with Ray Bauduc. Opinions, please.
1. Banjo and/or guitar in which selections? Eddie Lang?
2. Who is the drummer?
I would appreciate comments on all of this. It is worth listening to these recordings carefully, they are really terrific.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 31, 2013 12:53 PM|
This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 31, 2013 12:42 PM
Two basic questions
- guitar or banjo and in which of the three recordings?
- who is the drummer?
Bixography forum hits so far this week.
But not even one response to my questions?
Albert, I believe it's unquestionably Chauncey Morehouse, at least on "I'm More Than Satisfied". Nobody else quite struck a cymbal like Chauncey - it's almost like an audio "birthmark" - and the wood blocks, which you'll hear him play on so many of the Okeh sides under Bix' leadership.
When I have more time I'll play the rest, but to me this is Chauncey on drums.
He was the photographer who took the photos of musicians recording in the Gennett recording studios in Richmond, IN.
The following is from Duncan Schiedt's The Jazz State of Indiana.
Here are some of the historic photos.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 25, 2013 2:52 PM|
...Daubney or Dalbey,then? J.P. Lion says Dalbey.
In his book, Duncan Schiedt writes about Dalbey.
...if this is the William Dalbey in question. Died in Indiana, and the dates look about right, I think. So far, I haven't been able to get into the archive from here in the UK.
I often wonder about the old-time photographers, and how much of their unpublished work they kept. Of course, they didn't snap away as prolifically as the professionals do now. But suppose Mr Dalbey was a young man of 29 or so when he was working at Gennett, and that he actually took a personal interest in the music whose originators he was immortalizing. Wouldn't he keep some other "takes" of his work?
And in any case, wouldn't there always be extra versions of the pictures we know, so that a choice could be made by the subjects and their representatives? I hate to think of how many glimpses of our heroes were thrown away, either at the time, or later by the uninterested relatives (of the photographer's) who inherited them...
.... kept a historical record of the jazz and dance bands of the 1920s. We have mentioned several times in the forum Apeda photo studios. The head photographer was Alexander W. Dreyfoos (1877-1952). Apeda opened in 1906 and folded in 1990. What happened to their files and collections?
Here is the SSDI information about the only William Dalbey that seems to fit.
William Dalbey, "United States Social Security Death Index"
|birth date:||5 February 1894|
|social security number:||310-01-9889|
|place of issuance:||Indiana|
|last residence:||Marion, Indiana|
|zip code of last residence:||46241|
|death date:||November 1966|
|estimated age at death:||
I agree with you, litttle hope of relatives keeping photos taken by a professional photographer. I imagine, people keep photos of relatives and friends, but negatives of obscure (by the time they inherited) individuals and bands have long become parts of landfills. Sad.
Pianist and band leader Julian Fuhs was born in Berlin in 1891. He came to America in 1914 [note 1] and returned to Germany in 1924 where he had an excellent band until 1931. He met Paul Whiteman when the latter visited Germany. Here is a photo of Julian and Paul from 1926 (Jazz Age website).
Julian Fuhs was the first to record Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue in Germany.
Fuhs came back to the States in 1937 and died an impoverished man in Miami in 1975.
According to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASmksZW-16o Irving Berlin is one of the members of the trio vocalizing in Fuhs' 1930 recording of Berlin's Puttin' On the Ritz!
Note 1. Arrived in New York aboard the Kaiser Wilhelm II from Cherbourg, France on July 29, 1914, age 28, musical director, accompanied by wife Stella (28) and son Joseph (9). At the time, Fuhs was living in Paris. If he was born in 1891, he should have been 23 in 1914 and could not have a 9-year old son, unless adopted. The SSDI gives Julian's date of birth as Nov 20, 1891 and date of death in Florida as Aug 1975. I can't explain the discrepancy.
Maybe Joseph was Stella's son from a previous marriage and her and Joseph's ages were reported accurately even though Julian's wasn't?
From our german 78rpm forumhttp://grammophon-platten.de/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?14318
Here is a great one by the terrific Original Dixieland Jazz Band -- one of my favorites!
Thank you, David.
You can see why Bix, a man of exquisite taste, admired and was inspired by Nick LaRocca and the ODJB. The details from the EDVR website.
|Bluin' the blues||Disc label|
|Bluin' the blues (Primary title)||Disc label|
|Fox trot (Title descriptor)||Disc label|
|Authors and Composers||Notes|
|Henry Ragas (composer)|
|Original Dixieland Jazz Band (Musical group)|
|Nick LaRocca (instrumentalist: cornet)|
|Eddie Edwards (instrumentalist: trombone)|
|Larry Shields (instrumentalist: clarinet)|
|Henry Ragas (instrumentalist: piano)|
|Tony Sbarbaro (instrumentalist: drums)|
|Original Dixieland Jazz Band (Musical group)|
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 24, 2013 12:34 PM|
1 From http://hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/Mississippi/7Music.html
"What we play is life." - Louis Armstrong
A gumbo mix of blues, ragtime, spirituals, and Caribbean music erupted from New Orleans as the first sounds of jazz in the late 1890s. Musicians worked the riverboats and spread their hypnotic rhythms and brassy tones up the Mississippi, and by the 1920s and 1930s, Dixieland brass ensembles were all the rage.
The brilliant trumpet solos of jazzmen like Louis Armstrong and Iowa's own Bix Beiderbecke refined the raw sounds of the blues into universally appealing music. Armstrong, in particular, became one of the greatest celebrities of the 20th century with his "hot jazz" tempos.
2. From http://hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/Mississippi/7jazz.html
Leon "Bix" Beiderbecke, 1903-1931
"Bix's breaks were not as wild as Armstrong's but they were hot and he selected each note with musical care. He showed me that jazz could be musical and beautiful, as well as hot. He showed me that tempo doesn't mean fast."
- Hoagy Carmichael
The youngest son of a German American family in Davenport, Iowa, a young Bix Beiderbecke could play nearly any song he heard on the piano but never learned to read music. Nevertheless, at age 15 he mastered the cornet so that he could play the Dixieland jazz so popular on Mississippi riverboats.
By the age of 19, Bix set out to become the best jazz hornman in the land, and the notes coaxed out of his horn were pure and beautiful. In the 1920s he played with a variety of bands, eventually joining the Paul Whiteman Orchestra, and in the early 1930s, he played with the Dorsey Brothers and with Benny Goodman.
But Bix was a victim of alcohol abuse and could not hold a steady job. He died alone in his New York apartment at the age of 28, succumbing to pneumonia and alcohol poisoning.
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The first recording session of Bix and His Gang took place in the OKeh studios in New York City on Oct 5, 1927. Three numbers were recorded: At the Jazz Band Ball, Royal Garden Blues and Jazz Me Blues. The first and third title were issued on OK 40923 under the name of "Bix Beiderbecke and His Gang."
The OK 40,000 series were the "regular" issues in 1923-1928.
The second title was issued on OK 8544 with Goose Pimples on the flipside, recorded on Oct 25, 1927.
The OK 8,000 series were the "race" issues in 1923-1935. Evidently, the OKeh PR people were trying to attract the "race" market for the Bix recordings of Royal Garden Blues and Goose Pimples.
It occurred to me to look up 1920s bands that had the phrase "Lucky Seven" in their name. I found four.
Bailey's Lucky Seven. A Sam Lanin outfit that recorded over 100 sides for Gennett between 1921 and 1926. Phil Napoleon, Miff Mole and Frank Signorelli of Original Memphis Five fame were some of the musicians in Bailey's Lucky Seven recordings.
The label of a 1922 recording.
"Hot" Henry's Lucky Seven. A pseudonym for Joe Candullo's band in their late Nov 1926 recordings of Brown Sugar, Variety 5002 and I Still Believe in You, Variety 5013. Joe Candullo was a violinist/band leader who made recordings between 1926 and 1928 with excellent musicians such as Mike Mosiello, Sylvester Ahola, Jimmy Dorsey and perhaps Red Nichols, Leo McConville, Tommy Gott, Fud Livingston and Glenn Miller.
Matson's Lucky Seven. Charles Matson was a pianist who recorded under the name of Chas. A Matson' Creole Serenaders in 1923 for Edison. He also recorded two sides in Jan 1923 under the name of Matson's Lucky Seven: Lawdy Lawdy Blues/Jail House Blues, Paramount 20306. Charles Matson was the accompanying pianist in recordings of Mamie Smith, Clara Smith, Edna Hicks, and others. Charles Matson (misspelled as Watso)was also the director in the 1923 recordings of Ted Clare's Snappy Bits Band.
Miami Lucky Seven. They were Indiana musicians who recorded for Gennett in Richmond IN between 1922 and 1926.
Initially know as the Hoosier Sextet, they spent the winters in Miami Beach in 1921-1927. When they returned to Indiana in 1921, they changed their name to the Miami Six. Soon after, they added a seventh musicand and changed their name once again, this time to the Miami Lucky Seven. According to Duncan Schiedt, the Miami Lucky Seven "was the most consistenty successful Indiana band of the early 1920s." Duncan Scjiedt also tells us that the Miami Lucky Seven appeared at the Casino Gardens in Indianapolis, IN, a venue that is well known. in part, becaue the Wolverines appeared there in the summer of 1924. As a matter of fact, since the Wolverines did not have much success in the Casino Gardens, the Miami Lucky Seven were called in to played jointly with the Wolverines. [This information from Duncan Schiedt does not agree with what Evans and Evans tell us. More about this later].
For some reason or other, Parlophone insisted on billing the Gang sides as "BIX BEIDERBECKE AND HIS ORCHESTRA".
When does a band become an orchestra? Could Bix's six piece outfit be described as such?
Perhaps in the 1920's Parlophone associated "Gangs" with the likes of Al Capone and other like minded mobsters?
The latest issue of the IAJRC Journal - Vol 54, No. 4, December 2012- carries my article titled "Parlophone Records of At the Jazz Band Ball." Here is a link to the microsoft word document file that I submitted. Virtually identical, except for formatting, to the published article.
My comment about the English Parlophone: "It is noteworthy that the band is titled Bix Beiderbeck [sic] presents His Orchestra and that the recorded speed is given as 80 rpm."
At Harrison's, the label printers sited close to the giant EMI factory at Hayes, about ten miles west of London, the later English Parlophones were known as "The Parlophone Light and Dark Blue Label". It was an almost exclusive jazz label, both American and British bands. They were printed on light blue paper, so only two colors were used, the dark blue backgrounds and the gold (or bronze) title overprint. As far as I know, these labels always stated "Speed 78".
Here is the scan kindly sent by Ken.
R-2711 was part of the Miscellany Rhythm series and was issued in 1939. Indeed, speed is stated to be 78 rpm and Bix's last name is spelled correctly.
All the images in my article were in black and white because the IAJRC Journal does not, ordinarily, publish color pictures. Here is the black and white photo of R-2711 as it appeared in my article.
English Parlophone R-3465 was released in1928, just a few months after the American OKeh issue. Here is the label in color (courtesy of Norman Field).
It will be seen that the speed is given as 80 and that Bix's last name is misspelled. The color scheme is also blue background and gold lettering.
He has been a music educator in western New York for 26 years and has been a member of MENC since 1962 and a NYSSMA adjudicator for the last 21 years. Previously, he taught at the University of Texas at Austin, SUNY at Buffalo and Buffalo State College. He performs regularly with the Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra and has appeared with numerous symphony orchestras throughout the United States.
He is a founding member of the West Point Saxophone Quartet, the Amherst Saxophone Quartet and the Da Capo Saxophones. Concert appearances include Carnegie Hall, Avery Fisher Hall, The Kennedy Center and The Tonight Show. Nascimben is an active arranger with over 200 transcriptions for saxophone quartet and has recorded with MCA, Musical Heritage and Mark Records.
Among his arrangements for saxophone quartet we have the following: (from http://www.dornpub.com/ken/saxsatb.html)
Candelights arr:Nascimben, $8.00
In a Mist, $12.00
Flashes arr:Nascimben, $8.00
In the Dark arr:Nascimben, $8.00
Thanks for letting us know about it!
Advertisement appearing in the 1922 Lake Forest Academy yearbook, The Caxy. The Cy - Bix Orchestra was a band put together by Lake Forest Academy student Leon "Bix" Beiderbecke and his classmate Cy Welge.
From the Illinois Digital Archives.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 21, 2013 5:13 PM|
From the Digital Library of Indiana University.
Boosters Club Dance Advertisement
This image scanned from page 4 of the April 25, 1924 issue of The Indiana Daily Student.
1924 April 25
Beiderbecke, Leon Bismark "Bix"
Men's Gymnasium (1917)
Wolverines, The (jazz band from Cincinnati)
The Wolverines visit Ed Williams Music Store
This image scanned from page 4 of the May 9, 1924 issue of The Indiana Daily Student
1924 May 9
Beiderbecke, Leon Bismark "Bix"
Ed Williams Music Store
Wolverines, The (jazz band from Cincinnati)
We have discussed this session several times. See
Most of the discussions centered on the identity of the pianist and guitarist/banjoist. But at one point, I discussed the identity of the drummer.
Why Vic Berton and not Chauncey Morehouse?
Chauncey Morehouse was the drummer of the Jean Goldkette orchestra eversince Bix and Tram joined the band in 1926 (I believe Morehouse joined Goldkette in 1925). Chauncey Morehouse was the drummer in all the 1927 sessions of Frank Trumbauer and his orchestra, and of Bix and His Gang, both before and after the Goldkette band broke up in Sep 1927. Therefore, I find it surprising that, for the Chicago Loopers session of Oct 20, 1927, the drummer is Vic Berton. Morehouse recorded with Bix and His Gang two weeks earlier, and with Bix and His Gang, and with Frank Trumbauer and his orchestra five days later. Vic Berton had managed the Wolverines in July 1924, but from then until 1927, we do not have any evidence that they kept in touch. All of a sudden Vic Berton shows up in the Chicago Loopers session of Oct 20 and in the Broadway Bell Hops session of Sep 29, 1927 with Bix and Tram.
I can understand Berton being present in the Bell Hops session: after all, this was a Sam Lanin group, and Berton had been playing with Lanin since 1924. But why was Berton and not Morehouse engaged for the Chicago Loopers session? I find it very puzzling, it makes no sense to me. Is there a chance that the drummer in the Chicago Loopers session is not Vic Berton but, is, in fact, Chauncey Morehouse? Chauncey's style included a lot of cymbal work (listen to I'm Coming Virginia). The drummer in the Chicago Loopers session also emphasizes the cymbal.
Imagine my surprise when, looking for something else, I discovered this piece in the Palladium Times (Oswego, NY) of Nov 14, 1974.
Here is the front cover of the LP.
I don't think I have this album. Does anyone? If so, what discographical information is provided for the Chicago Loopers session and who wrote the notes? Thanks. I would also be instructive if drummer specialists (Josh) chime in with their opinions about the identity of the drummer.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 20, 2013 6:00 AM|
...has a yellow cover. Chauncey Morehouse is the drummer. Hank O'Neil wrote the notes with Brian Rust handling the discography. I think I'll make a transfer of this LP for my radio show.
I have seen images of the LP with a yellow color. For example, right now on ebay.
Evidently, Rust changed his mind between the time he wrote the discography for the LP (1970s?) and the time (2002) he wrote the Jazz Records discography. In 2002, Rust identified the drummer as Vic Berton.
Discography is not a precise science - like chemistry.
Another point about Chauncey Morehouse. Most discographers suggest that Gene Krupa is the drummer on Bix's Victor session of September 8th, 1930, which produced Deep Down South/I Don't Mind Walkin' In The Rain/I'll Be A Friend With Pleasure, but vary between Krupa and Morehouse for the Hoagy Carmichael Victor session of September 15th 1930 that produced Georgia On My Mind/One Night In Havana/Bessie Couldn't Help It.
In the 3rd to 6th editions of Jazz Records, Brian Rust lists Gene Krupa on both of these September 1930 Victor sessions, but in the 1st and 2nd editions he lists Morehouse on the September 15th session. What made him change his mind I wonder?
J-P Lion (in the discography on the Bixography site) says it is Morehouse for the September 15th session and Krupa for the earlier September 8th session.
I would personally say that the drummer on the September 15th session is Gene Krupa. There are several clues - for instance, his cymbal work underneath Bud Freeman's tenor sax solo on Bessie Couldn't Help It sounds rather like other examples of cymbal playing by Krupa of the time, such as can be heard underneath Jimmy Dorsey's clarinet solo starting at 1.37 in the following Louisiana Rhythm Kings' version of Lazy Daddy from January 27th, 1930:-
In the last few days I have corresponded with Ann, the daughter of Tommy Gott's cousin. She kindly sent scans of photos which I will post next week.
In preparing a posting about Tommy Gott, the first thing I did was to consult Don Rayno's biography of Paul Whiteman. Don included in his book an extremely useful appendix, short biographies of musicians who were members of the Paul Whiteman orchestra. Tommy Gott was with Whiteman from July 1921 to August 1923. Here is what Don wrote about Tommy Gott.
"Thomas Arlan "Tommy" Gott, b Mar 2, 1895, IN; d Jan 3, 1965, San
Joaquin County, CA, trumpet player. Was a top New York session
musician who toured Europe with Gaby Deslys and her American Military
Review musical during World War I. Gott played on hundreds of
recordings, many of these for Sam Lanin, Ben Selvin, and Harry Reser
studio bands. Some of the other ensembles and band leaders he recorded
with were: Bailey's Lucky Seven, Broadway Bellhops, California
Ramblers, Joe Candullo, Club Royal Orchestra, Zez Confrey, Clyde
Doerr, Roger Wolfe Kahn, Arhtur Lange, Sam Lanin, Vincent Lopez, Okeh
Syncopators, Harry Reser, Freddy Rich, Ben Selvin, Nat Shilkret, Six
Jumping Jacks, Ted Wallace, and Bill Wirges. Gott was with the
Whiteman Orchestra from July 1921 to August 1923. The True-Tone
journal described Gott's playing in this way. 'A powerful, lilting
lip, scales high F with no effort, gets a flowing tone and excels in
the lace tonal embroidery with which Whiteman embellishes all themes.'
He fronted his own band in the late 1920s and early 1930s."
Since the first chronological piece of information dealt with Tommy touring Europe during WWI with Gaby Deslys and her American Military Review, I googled "American Military Review" and "American Military Revue" as well as Gaby Deslys. I found no mention of such a review or revue.
My next step was to look up Tommy Gott in the Ellis Island website. I had one hit under Arlan Gott, no hit under Thomas Gott. Arlan, born in Waneland [sic; should be Waveland], IN, Mar 2, 1895, sailed from Cherbourg, France on Aug 7, 1923 aboard the SS Leviathan and arrived in New York on Aug 13, 1923. His wife Anna sailed with him; she was born in Altona [sic; should be Altoona] PA on Apr 4, 1891. Other passengers on the ship were Paul Whiteman, Ross Gorman and their respective spouses.
I believe that if Tommy/Thomas/Arlen Gott had been to Europe during World War I, there would have been a listing in the Ellis Island records. I would love to find documentation about an "American Military Review/Revue," but until I do, I will remain skeptical -but open-minded- about such a group (that included Tommy Gott) travelling in Europe during or right after World War I. If anyone has information, I would be very grateful if he/she could inform me.
One more negative piece of information.
- I did a lot of reading about Gaby Deslys. A fascinating woman. But nowhere is there a mention of Gaby being in Europe with her "American Military Review/Revue." One interesting piece of trivia from Wikipedia: "The bed in the shape of a swan that Norma Desmond [the film star in Sunset Boulevard, the great film by Billy Wilder, one of my favorite films] slept in was actually owned by the dancer Gaby Deslys who died in 1920. It had originally been bought by the Universal prop department at auction after Deslys's death. The bed appeared in The Phantome of the Opera (1925) starring Lon Chaney."
As mentioned above, no entry for Gott in the Ellis Island records other than his trip to Europe with Whiteman in 1923. Incidentally, when he returned from Europe in Aug 1923, Tommy Gott joined the band of Charles Dornberger who had the pit band for the 1923 edition of George White's scandals (ran from Jun 18, 1923 to Nov 10, 1923). Another interesting tidbit of information is that until Tommy Gott joined Whiteman in 1921, the one and only trumpet player in the band was Henry Busse.
Tommy Gott in the US Census. Tommy is listed in the 1900, 1910 and 1920 US Census (I have to look in 1930; I will do that maybe tomorrow if I go to the local library). His father was Stephen born in 1855, music teacher, mother Kathy or Catherine, born in 1870. Tommy had two brothers (Merle born in 1896 and Frederick born in 1899) and a sister, Imogene born in 1903.
The first recording of Tommy Gott that I could find dates from Jan 9, 1920 with Lopez And Hamilton's Kings Of Harmony Orchestra. The tune was Bluin' the Blues, issued on Ed 50662 and Amb 4044. Listen to the cylinder:
Try also Patches form Tommy's third recording session, Feb 3, 1920. Very nice tune -to my taste. Prominent piano!
And one more, Tommy Gott's most significant recording with Whiteman, Gershwin's I'll Build a Stairway to Paradise. Sep 1, 1922. This was one of the songs in the 1922 edition of George White's Scandals: Aug 28, 1922 to Nov 11, 1922. The pit band was Whiteman's. Evidently, Tommy Gott must have enjoyed being in this Broadway musical, and when he returned from England iin 1923, decided to leave Whiteman and join Dornberger's band in the 1923 edition of George White's Scandals.
More about Tommy Gott in the next few days.
PS And for some fun and vey enjoyable recreations, listen to the following three items.
1. The track on the Aviator soundtrack CD; Vince Giordano and the Nighthawks with Rufus Wainright on vocal.
2. A piece from the movie Aviator with Vince, the Nighthawks and Rufus.
3. A totally unsychronized video and audio recording of the tune by Vince, the Nighthawks and Rufus. The Stroh violin sounds like a trumpet, Vince's bass sax sounds like a string bass. Rufus sings but no sound comes out of his mouth! Vince, what went wrong?
From my review of the Aviator CD in the Mississppi Rag a few years ago:
Rufus Wainwright sings George Gershwin's tune "I'll Build A Stairway to Paradise." The accompaniment by Vince Giordano's Nighthawks is sassy and brassy. It is based on the arrangement by Ferde Grofe for the 1922 recording of the tune by Paul Whiteman and his orchestra. The arrangement was modified and edited by Vince and Tom Roberts. There is an excellent turn by violinist Skye Steele [subbing for Andy Stein] and he imparts to his solo a somewhat burlesque quality.
Read the complete review inhttp://bixbeiderbecke.com/aviator.html
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 19, 2013 2:43 PM|
At this time, Paul Whiteman and his orchestra were in England. As I mentioned in my previous posting, the musicians returned in August and Tommy Gott left Whiteman to join Charles Dornberger in the 1923 George White Scandals. The piece below provides a tiny bit of fascinating information/gossip about what was going on in Paul Whiteman's orchestra at this time.
The problems in the band are confirmed by Don Rayno in his Whiteman biography, Vol 1. Don writes that when Whiteman returned from England, "There were even rumors circulating that the Whiteman band was breaking up. Some recent personnel changes had given rise to that gossip."
Tommy Gott did not last long with Charles Dornberger. Tommy left before the 1923 George White Scandals closed (Nov 10, 1923). Tommy then joined Arthur Lange's orchestra. On Sep 7, 1923, Lange had a recording session for Cameo and waxed two numbers: Just A Girl That Men Forget (waltz)and I Love You. The trumpet men in this session were Earl Oliver and Tommy Gott. Arthur Lange's group was bought by Roger Wolfe Kahn. The first recording of Kahn took place on Mar 10, 1925 for Victor. Tommy Gott and Earl Oliver were the trumpeteers in this session.
I wonder if Tommy Gott recorded with Charles Dornberger's band before leaving. On Aug 29, 1923, Dornberger' band recorded Oh, Sister! Ain't That Hot.
According to the EDVR website, the band included two cornet players. Listen to the recording.
Dou you think Tommy Gott is one of the two cornetists? For the sake of accuracy, let me point out that Tommy Goot is reported by Rayno to play trumpet in all of his recordings with Whiteman. However, the EDVR website reports that the two horn players in, for example, I'll Build A Stairway to Paradise, are playing cornet.
..... Arlan Thomas Gott. Arlan is the first name.
Thanks to Ann for the correction.
There is no listing of Tommy Gott returning from Europe in 1918-1920 either in the Ellis Island records or the ancestry pages of incoming passengers, except for his return in 1923 from his trip to Europe with Whiteman.
However, there is now conclusive evidence that Tommy Gott was indeed in Europe.
1. Through the generosity of Chris Barry here are the cover page and page 2 of Tom Gott's modern cornet method.
The information in the short biography must be reliable since it was a publication written by Tommy himself. Tommy's WW I Draft Registration Card of 1917 shows him to be 22 years of age, living in Kentland , IN and working as Telephone Operator for the New York Central Railway Co. in Schneider, IN. Evidently, after registering, Tommy joined the army and was sent to Europe. When the war ended, he hung around.
Another important document, also kindly sent by Chris, is this piece in the The Attica Ledger and Tribune, Attica, Indiana, 31 March 1923 where the connection to Gaby Deslys is cited..
2. On Feb 26, 1923, Tommy Gott filed an application for a US Passport. In the application he stated that he had resided in France, A.E.F, from 1918 to 1920. A.E.F. is the abbreviation of "American Expeditionary Forces" sent to Europe during WW I.
I am guessing that Tommy accompanied Gaby Deslys in 1919 -before Oct 1919. The war ended on Nov 11, 1918. Gaby was in the US from Oct 11 to Oct 29, 1919. She had come to do motion picture work, but did not get a satisfactory contract. Since she had an offer from an Italian producer to film Cyrano de Bergerac, Gaby decided to return to Europe. She got very sick in Nov-Dec 1919, had a dozen throat operations and died on Feb 11, 1920.
Here are a few photographs of various bands Nat Star. Not directly related to Bix but I wonder if anyone can help with personnel with any of them?
Thanks a lot, Alex! I only know a couple of things about the band.
I mentioned Nat in my article "The Transformation of a Tune. A Blues Serenade: From Hot Dance Tune to Yale Blues to Romantic Ballad."
I also had a posting on Nat Star's recording of Cole Porter's Let's Do It.
That's all! But the British dance bands specialists here may be able to help.
The trombonist in the first photo is Ted Heath.
From Mike Thomas's magnificent website.
Emlyn Thomas (UK) Emlyn Thomas led a band at the London Club in the early to mid 1920s, a photo of which appears here. The players so far identified in the photo are:
Back Row: Fred North (trombone); unknown (drums); Fred Cooke (piano); unknown (tuba); Emlyn Thomas (violin/leader); 2 unknown french horn players.
Front Row: Billy Bell (banjo); 2 unidentified trumpet players, one of which is probably Jay Elms; Jay Wilbur (piano); George Clarkson (sax); Nat Star (sax); unknown (sax).
Here is Al Bowlly singing Springtime Reminds Me of You.
MAURICE WINNICK AND HIS ORCHESTRA.
VOCAL;- AL BOWLLY.
RECORDED, LONDON, JULY 10TH, 1931.
Part of the melody reminds me a little bit of a 1940s famous tango, Tristeza Marina by Carlos Di Sarli, vocal by Roberto Rufino, one of my favorite bands and one of my favorite singers. Try to give it a listen: it is excellent music and the interpreters are first-class. The piano you hear is played by the band leader, Carlos Di Sarli. Just like in American dance band music, Italians were important in the Argentinian tango.
Info about Nat Star: http://www.jabw.demon.co.uk/star1.htm
12 recordings: http://archive.org/details/NatStarOrch-01-12
A follow-up to http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1356026322/Another+example+of+a+recurring+theme+in+Bix%27s+solos-
The following are significant comparisons.
Comparison # 1.
Listen at 1:12 of the Sioux City Six playing "Flock o' Blues" and you'll hear a riff Bix played in the Wolverines' "Royal Garden Blues," the Goldkette recording of "I Didn't Know," and the intro of Bix's own "Davenport Blues".
And guess what? A portion of this riff shows up in "Stardust," too.
Comparison # 2.
Here, have some original research; it's another example of Bix repeating and refining a musical idea, or pattern, over a period of time.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 19, 2013 6:34 AM|
From lindyhoppers (Enrico).
Mickey Bloom, James Migliore, trp
Herb Winfield, trb
Boyd Senter and another, cl, as
Fud Livingston, cl, ts
Jack Russell, pn
Dan Calker, bj, g, v
Stan King, d, k
New York, November 25, 1929
Excellent version and transfer. Is the trumpet soloist Mickey Bloom or James Migliore? I would say Mickey Bloom, the brother of Rube Bloom, doing a bit of Bix.
Adrian Rollini returned to the US late in 1929 after his engagement in England with Fred Elizalde. Adrian then joined Bert Lown's orchestra. According to John Chilton, Adrian left Lown in the spring of 1931 and then joined for a short time a re-formed California Ramblers in 1931.
According to Rust, Rollini made several recordings with Bert Lown betwee Jan 8, 1930 and Mar 12, 1931. Rollini was replaced by Spencer Clark in Apriil 1931.
According to Rust, Rollini began to record again with the California Ramblers when he returned from England, the first session on Aug 5, 1930. Rust assigns "vibraphone and probably bass sax occasionally" to Adrian for this session and (I guess) subsequent ones for the rest of 1930 and several dates in 1931. For the Oct 5, 1931 California Ramblers' recording session, Rust writes "Adrian Rollini, bsx, allegedly present."
One of the tunes recorded on that day was Concentratin', available from Emrah on youtube.
I don't hear Adrian on bass sax. Another tune recorded on that day was Who Am I? issued under the name of Ted Wallace and His Campus Boys. Listen
The other tune recorded on that session was Waiting For A Call From You.
I can't hear a bass sax on any of the tunes recorded on that day. I remind you that at one point, in the first half of July 1931, Rollini fell, lost two teeth, and cut his lower lip. From the Brooklyn Standard Union, Jul 15, 1931.
I wonder if Rollini was able to play bass sax in Oct 1931. Maybe he was not recovered and could not play bass sax?
The last recording session of the California Ramblers in 1931 took place on Nov 11, 1931. The last tune recorded on that day was When I Wore My Daddy's Brown Derby. Listen
According to Rust, the roster of musicians is the same as in the previous session (Oct 5, 1931), "Adrian Rollini allegedly present." There is a sax before and after the vocal, but I don't think it is a bass sax. A baritone? Help! I hear a xylophone after the vocal. Could that be Adrian? Is it possible that Adrian was not yet recovered by November 1931 and still could not play sax? I note that the sax and xylophone are heard at the same time.
One more point. What is Rollini's last recording in which he plays bass saxophone?
Last point. Rollini was still with the California Ramblers in 1932 Take a look at this ad in the Daily Argus of June 23, 1932.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 17, 2013 2:21 PM|
The sax before the vocal is a baritone; the sax after the vocal is a tenor. What I said was a xylophone is a piano. Lastly, "Rollini's last commercial recording on bass sax was the session of January 7th, 1938, which produced three titles including....Singin' The Blues!"
Does this mean that Rollini was not present in the Nov 11, 1931 session? Who played the baritone sax in that session? What is the last recording session of Rollini with the California Ramblers? An important date since Rollini was such an important contributor in making the California Ramblers a great band.
The Jan 7, 1938 session. From Lord's discography.
|New York, January 7, 1938|
|63138-A||Bill||De 1638, Voc (E)S-191, Affinity (E)AFS1030 [CD]|
|63139-A||Singin' the blues (ph vcl)||1973 - -|
|63140-A||The sweetest story ever told (ph vcl)||-|
|Note:||All above titles also on Retrieval (E)RTR79046 [CD].|
Singin' the Blues by Rollini in youtube.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 17, 2013 4:13 PM|
Adrian Rollini was back in the Bert Lown band for their Victor date Jan. 12, 1932, but limited his part to a few breaks and a little 4th sax harmony. Lown didn't have another date till August, when Adrian once again took only a few breaks and one 8-bar spot (on "I Can't Believe It's True").
Whether Rollini was getting his chops back or growing tired of bass saxophoning is probably a moot point. The bass sax had never been more than an offbeat specialty, and after 1930 it went seriously out of style. Almost no one was still featuring the horn, and by 1932 it looked like hot jazz on any instrument might be a thing of the past. Multi-instrumentalist Adrian could be forgiven for thinking that his bread and butter lay elsewhere.
Art Rollini recalled that Adrian organized a new band in October, 1932, for Bert Lown to take into the Park Central Hotel. Art was on tenor and both Adrian and Spencer Clark on bass saxes. The idea was for Adrian to play solo and 4th sax and Clark (just back from a stretch with Fred Waring) to play rhythm bass.
This was the scheme in place on Lown's last 2 record dates, for Bluebird in May and June, 1933. It worked fairly well, but couldn't make up for staid depression stock arranging, with Spencer strictly limited to two beats a measure at medium tempos. Had the band been able to record in its dynamic 1930 or '31 style, both bass saxists would have delivered the goods, I feel certain.
From the Rocky Mount Evening Telegram, Apr 25, 1952, byline Mark Barrow, New York.
Mr. Barrow go the first half right (except the spelling of Leon's middle name), but scrambled completely the information in the second half. 1. The name of the clarinetist is missing. 2. Dave Tough was a drummer. 3. The correct first name of Voynow is Richard. 4. Bix's last name is misspelled the second time it is mentioned.
Oh, well ...
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 15, 2013 9:25 AM|
Because bad journalists write about things of which they have no knowledge.
I think it's very generous to call "Bismark" a misspelling of "Bix," but I'd cut the reporter a little bit of slack on that since the nickname was held by three Beiderbeckes at the same time (one of whom, of course, did have the middle name of Bismark or Bismarck for a good while.) Even Bix himself, at the age of nine, was already dealing with that mixup, and it seems to have been repeated in print often enough. The poor reporter apparently did some sort of digging to come up with that name, because Bix was never known professionally by his father's full middle name.
But... did Dave Tough ever play piano? He may have had some lessons, but I've never seen him recorded on piano in print anywhere!
|My pretty girl||Disc label|
|My pretty girl (Primary title)||Disc label|
|Stomp (Title descriptor)||Disc label|
|Mi linda muchacha (Parallel (translated) title)||Disc label|
|Authors and Composers||Notes|
|Fulcher, Charles (composer)|
Composer information source: Disc label
|Jean Goldkette Orchestra (Musical group)|
|Bix Beiderbecke (instrumentalist: cornet)|
|Tommy Dorsey (instrumentalist: trombone)|
|Fred "Fuzzy" Farrar (instrumentalist: trumpet)|
|Jean Goldkette (leader)|
|Howdy Quicksell (instrumentalist: banjo)|
|Bill Rank (instrumentalist: trombone)|
|Stanley "Doc" Ryker (instrumentalist: saxophone)|
|Joe Venuti (instrumentalist: violin)|
|Danny Polo (instrumentalist: saxophone)|
|Ray Lodwig (instrumentalist: trumpet)|
|Spiegle Willcox (instrumentalist: trombone)|
|Frank Trumbauer (instrumentalist: C-melody saxophone)|
|Irving Riskin (instrumentalist: piano)|
|Steve Brown (instrumentalist: string bass)|
|Chauncey Morehouse (instrumentalist: drums)|
|Nathaniel Shilkret (director)|
|Jean Goldkette Orchestra (Musical group)|
Take Date and Place
|2/1/1927 (New York, New York)||1||Master||Victor 20588||
|2/1/1927 (New York, New York)||1||Master||Victor 25283||
|2/1/1927 (New York, New York)||1||Master||Gramophone B-5324||
|2/1/1927 (New York, New York)||1||Master||Sunbeam BX CD2||
|2/1/1927 (New York, New York)||2||Hold||X EVA-10||
|2/1/1927 (New York, New York)||2||Hold||X LVA-3017||
|2/1/1927 (New York, New York)||2||Hold||Sunbeam BX CD2||
Take Date and Place
|2/1/1927 (New York, New York)||
|Footnotes and Sources|
|Instrumentation is from Victor ledgers and is not confirmed; collective personnel from Sunbeam CD notes.|
|Disc label (Vi 25283) notes: "Featuring Beiderbecke, trumpet; Wilcox, trombone; Venuti, violin; Trumbauer, Polo, and Dorsey, sax; rhythm: Brown, Morehouse, Riskin."|
|Source(s) consulted: Sunbeam CD notes (personnel); Rigler-Deutsch Index; disc; Victor ledgers|
|Footnotes and Sources|
A couple of errors in the roster of musicians. Tommy was not present in this session. The pianist was Paul Mertz, not Irving Riskin. One omission: Eddy Sheasby was on violin.
Try this radio program about Goldkette with interviews of Spiegle Willcox, Bill Challis and Joe Venuti. From WTIC, April 1973.
The original issue in the US.
The alternate issue in the US. Spiegle's last name misspelled; not Riskin on piano: it was Mertz.
A French issue.
An English issue signed by Spiegle Willcox.
A German issue credited to Jean (no Goldkette).
The Jazz Classics issue.
The most obvious differences betwee takes 1 and 2 are Joe Venuti's breaks. Here they are juxtaposed, first take 1, then take 2.
http://bixography.com/violinmyprettytake1and2.ram If this link does not work, try the following:
Bill Rank's two short breaks are different also.
A nice account of Don's work on his Whiteman biography.
I got my copy of the second volume. Now I must read it. 864 pages.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 13, 2013 2:19 PM|
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 13, 2013 11:49 AM|
Permit me to insert an old favorite.
I love Red Allen, I think he was a better vocalist and trumpet player then Armstrong.
And may I suggest any of Jack Teagarden's versions? Here's one:
Also a longtime favorite of mine, though I had nearly forgotten about it. Thanks.
I believe that Adrain Rollini joined the California Ramblers in 1922. Please correct if wrong. What was he doing before that? He was employed by the Republic Player Roll Corporation of New York.
From Presto Jan 26, 1920.
That is Adrian at age 16. (He was born on June 18, 1903).
The company was short lived folded in 1922 and this may have been the cause of Rollini joining the California Ramblers.
That's amazing! What a find, Hal! Now if only there were a wax-to-vinyl recording that Bix made but never picked up there!
.... any documentation of sales in the summer of 1931 when Bix was living in Sunnyside. The response: "Would love to accommodate you but there is nothing here since I bought the store in 1981. Anyway, who keeps records for 60 years????????" Makes sense.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 13, 2013 12:38 PM|
This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 13, 2013 12:37 PM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 13, 2013 12:37 PM
This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 13, 2013 12:36 PM
Packrats, or people who forget they're there.
Thank WGMB* for both kinds of people.
*whatever gods may be
I have most of my records, notebooks, homeworks, etc. from schools (elementary, lycee, college, graduate school), and collections of all kinds of things, including records, reel to reel tapes and CDs of French popular music, tangos, jazz; books on all kinds of subjects -fiction and non-fiction-, all the electronic equipment I used in my nearly 50-year career in chemistry research, and every chemical compound I or my students ever synthesized, etc. etc. Ratpacks live happily surrounded by their possessions. The ones who suffer are those who live with ratpacks. My wife of almost 58 years is a saint (she complains only a few times a day ) and is still very beautiful to boot.
I have always been interested in the arrangements of Jimmy Lally and I would like to research his life and his influence on arranging in England. Can anybody help? Are any family members still alive. Where did he live? etc I am just starting to research him and I can find nothing!Thanks
Don't know how much help I can be, but a quick Google search reveals that he died in 1974 and was the brother of Arthur Lally (1901-40), another arranger as well as a saxophonist and recording bandleader. Jimmy was often thought to be no more than a pen name. Saxophonist Stephen Howard recalls:
"If you're none too familiar with Jimmy Lally then I can tell you that it was the brand name for a series of band arrangements that were very popular with function bands round about the turn of the 50's. The beauty of the arrangements was that they were simple, and the catalogue vast - but by the same token they were also bloody awful.
"You could take a soft, romantic ballad - such as 'The nearness of you' - and turn it into an almost funereal dirge with a Lally arrangement ( and we did, regularly ), but they were cheap and readily available and tended to scale down well if you didn't have the luxury of a full band."
That's an interesting idea that it was a brand name.I know the arrangements were generally not well thought of but I am interested because looking back it seems to me they were one of the first types of commercially available arrangements that offered the flexibility that the writer mentions. It's the technique of arranging for variable instruments that interests me.Most arrangements are written for a specific line up.Where did the idea come from? Who did he study from ? Thanks for the help.
I refer to my posting
for information about Bix and Bromo Sulser. Here is a bit more:
Jan 15, 1925. Ad for appearance in the Blue Goose.
Jan 15, 1925. Ad for the appearance at the Charity Ball and at the Blue Goose.
Mar 6, 1978. Bix's course work at the University. The actual transcripts are available in the main bixography website.
Feb 5, 1925.
See also Bix's signature on the fraternity paddle.
|This message has been edited by ahaim on Jan 17, 2013 6:36 AM|