The Bixography Discussion Group

A vehicle for Bixophiles and other interested individuals to ask questions, make comments and exchange information about Bix Beiderbecke and related subjects.

Any views expressed in the Bixography Forum represent solely the opinions of those expressing them and are not necessarily endorsed or opposed by Albert Haim unless he has signed the message.

I started archiving some of the threads that have been inactive for some time. The archived threads can be found at http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/archivesforum.htm

Albert Haim, Forum Owner

html

Back from vacation. Some news.

1. Sudhalter.

Obituary. Enrico and Nick sent a link to Richard's obituary in the Independent newspaper.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/dick-sudhalter-cornettist-whose-career-was-founded-on-his-beiderbecke-connection-944135.html

Tribute Concert. The tentative date is Nov 2, 2008. Details will be supplied as they become available.

Obit in Wahsington Post. Enrico is apalled by the comments in this obituary. So was I when I read it before I went on vacation. Enrico wants me to send a response and I will in the next day or two, as soon as I get several urgent things done at home and in my lab at the university.

I have been asked by the editor of the Mississippi Rag to write an obituary. I will later in the week.

2. Responses to some postings.

Carl wrote, "I really hope Albert will present an isolated solo of the month especially since this repeat feature exists. What a glorious opportunity to wallow and absorb." I will try later this week. The first will be a Joe Venuti solo. I have one in mind.

Jim's posting on Tom and Stu Pletcher. Welcome to the Bixography Forum. I point out that there is a recent CD with recordings by Stu.

Stu Pletcher:
The Story Of Stewart Pletcher 1924-1937
Audio CD (February 19, 2008)
Original Release Date: February 19, 2008
Number of Discs: 1
Label: Jazz Oracle

Description: A thorough review of trumpeter Stu Pletcher's career, with recordings by the Yale Collegians, Red Norvo, Ben Pollack, Smith Ballew, as well as two privately-recorded piano solos by Pletcher. The detailed liner notes are by Tom Pletcher, Stu's son and a jazz musician in his own right. The 40 page booklet features photographs from the Pletcher family's archives.

Jon. Thanks for pointing out the existence of two takes of the ODJB "Darktown Strutters' Ball." They are available in the Red Hot Jazz Archive.
http://redhotjazz.com/songs/ODJB/darktownstruttersball3.ram Take 3

http://redhotjazz.com/songs/ODJB/darktownstruttersball4.ram Take 4

And I recommend the version by Fred Elizalde and His "Hot" Music. (a sextet

http://redhotjazz.com/Songs/elizalde/darktownstruttersball.ram

Great trumpet and bass sax solos. The bass sax solo is by Adrian Rollini and the trumpet solo by Chelsea Quealey.

Miff Mole's Molers have a great version also. Not available in the redhotjazz archive or jazz-on-line. I'll upload it in a few days.

Albert

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 11:19 AM

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Stewart Pletcher

Albert, thanks for the heads up on the CD. It looks wonderful.
I am concerned about Stew being "Stu", and only Tom can straighten this out.
Dick Sudhalter in "Lost Chords" has him as "Stew" as does Columbia records in their liner notes for a 1930's Jazz album.
I think this is really important and should be resolved. Maybe it could be an "either or" situation.
Welcome back to the real world! Hope your vacation was refreshing and that you are well rested?
Jim

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 2:55 PM

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I'll ask Tom ....

.... the next time I talk to him.

Albert

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 6:31 AM

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Tribute concert

by Rob Rothberg

Welcome back, Albert. Where is the November 2 tribute concert that you mentioned? (New York, I hope.)

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 6:12 PM

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Thanks, Rob, for the kind welcome.

I do not have details of time and place. However, I am almost 100% certain that it will be in New York City. Richard lived in Manhattan or nearby for the last 30 plus years.

I will make the announcement as soon as I learn the coordinates.

Albert

Posted on Oct 1, 2008, 10:47 AM

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Tom Pletcher

There are so many messages, so this has probably been touched on before. As Albert points out in his review of "If Bix Played Gershwin", cornetist Tom Pletcher and the rest of the band really do a fine job on this CD. I just wanted to mention that Tom is the son of trumpeter Stew Pletcher who was a member of Red Norvo's great orchestra in the late 'thirties. Stew is heard beautifully soloing on Irving Berlin's "Remember", along with Herbie Haymer (ts) and Hank d'Amico (cl) and Norvo on harpsichord. Recorded in Chicago on March 22, 1937 (Brunswick 7896.) One critic referred to this side as "one of the most precious three minutes to come out of the Swing Era".
How proud Tom must be of his Dad, just as his father must have been of him!
Tom, your playing is superb. I can't get enough of it!
Jim Bruce (Montreal)

Posted on Sep 28, 2008, 10:12 AM

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Red Norvo and the Harpsichord

Whoops! I guess by now many of you are questioning Red Norvo's playing the "harpsichord" after reading my message of Sept 28. Must have found it easier to spell than xylophone, which is what Red of course played on this recording date.
Sorry! I spotted my mistake after Albert put it up so don't email me!

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 11:59 AM

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Not a Harpsichord nor a ....

... xylophone. Red Norvo played a marimba.

Sorry I did not spot the reference to the harpsichord when I posted your comment.

I have the excuse that I was on vacation and gave only a cursory reading to the postings I approved.

Albert

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 12:33 PM

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Marimbas and Xylophones

I beg to differ, Albert, as does Michael Brooks, who wrote the liner notes for Columbia Jazz Masterpieces' "1930's Jazz", which includes "Remember" (Red Norvo Orchestra); also Leonard Feather and Ira Gitler who list in their "Encyclopedia of Jazz" Norvo as "Vib., xyl". The marimba and xylophone are similar, so it gets confusing. The Encyl. Britt. says he played marimba in the '20's in vaudeville and dance bands. So, then came the xylophone and later, he switched to vibes. In 1937, it was the xylophone for sure when he recorded "Remember".
To quote from Brook's liner notes: (Norvo) "is the only man to take the xylophone, hitherto a novelty instrument, and turn it into a solo force in jazz".
Your radio programs are terrific! I listen to them while I paint (pictures).

Jim

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 2:07 PM

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Conflicting Information

Richard Sudhalter in the booklet that accompanies "Bix Restored, Vol 5" gives the following information,

"Newly arrived in New York, Red Norvo (1908-1999) used his xylophone to plumb the depths of Bix's "In A Mist." better in fact, than had the composer in a hurried, less reflective piano record."

However in the discographical section by Brian Rust and Michael Kieffer, we find,

RED NORVO
New York, Nov 21, 1933
Personnel: Red Norvo, marimba; Benny Goodman, bcl; Dick McDonough, g; Artie Bernstein, sb.
B-14361-A In a Mist (Bix Beiderbecke) Br 6906

So marimba or xylophone? I think it is a marimba. Listen to the recordings of "In A Mist" and "Remember."

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/BRU14361-A.ram

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramh/BRUC1853-1HX2-8.ram

I think that a xylophone sounds in a higher range than the marimba.

Albert

Thanks for your kind comments about WBIX.

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 3:48 PM

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Norvo in 1937

I agree pretty much with your sources, Albert. "In a Mist" was played on a marimba. "Remember", 4 years later. was played on a xylophone, which sounds higher (as you point out) and to my ears, brighter.
According to Dick Sudhalter in "Lost Chords", in the section on Red Norvo, the timeline seems to have been: 1. Marimba (vaudeville) 2. Deagan Marimba-Xylophone, 5 octave range, 7' long (club dates, bands) 3. Xylophone (his orchestra) 4. Vibes (1940's orchestra.)
Norvo's first instrument as a young boy was a "$137.50 Deagan table model xylophone" (p.654).
In March 1937, when "Remember" was recorded, and Eddie Sauter was arranging for Norvo, Red "kept playing with the sound, even trying the marimba on some numbers. But its lower pitch put it right in the middle of the reed section's most frequently used register, and it tended to be lost in all but the lightly scored passages." (p.689)
Jim

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 8:49 AM

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Re: Marimbas and Xylophones

by Klaus H

I always thought marimbas (marimbi?) were wood, and xylophones (xylophi?) were metal, which would account for the brighter tone; but apparently both can be made of wood.

Also, $137 in the '20s, when Norvo was a kid was quite an investment.

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 9:33 AM

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Images

From Oxford Music Online

Marimba

Xylophone

Albert

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 10:43 AM

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Red Norvo. Help!

To try to get back on track, my original message was to state that Red played xylophone on "Remember" on March 22, 1937. We seem to be veering off topic a bit. I have found some references that substantiate this and none that refute it. Has anyone any reference(s) that indicate Red played marimba on that particular record?
Jim

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 12:28 PM

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Re: Red Norvo. Help!

by Klaus H

The Bruyninckx discography has xylophone also.

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 10:20 PM

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Norvo in Brian Rust Discography

Brian Rust in "Jazz Records 1932-1942" lists him as "xyl" and also has Pletcher as "Stew" on the record "Remember."
I don't know why I didn't check here first!
Jim

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 12:42 PM

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I'm In a Mist

Albert, you don't have to post this. It's a P.S. to my last one. Rust also lists in "Jazz Records 1932-1942", for "In a Mist", "Xylophone or marimba soli." (Nov 21, 1933.)
Interesting? Maybe that's why the two solo selections sound so much like the same instrument being played?
Jim

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 12:53 PM

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Cost of Instrument

by Jim Bruce

Good point on the price Klaus. The story goes that he worked for the railroad all summer and used his pet pony to make up the cost. This was the early '20's, so that would be a lot of money. Must have been a terrific xylophone!
Jim

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 11:52 AM

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O/T--ODJB and Darktown Strutters' Ball

This is being posted more out of curiosity than anything else.

Given all the recent discussion of the ODJB, I thought I'd replace my old Jazz Archives ODJB disc (volume 2) with the more recent Retrieval disc (Pioneer Recording Bands 1917-1920) for the band's 1917 Columbia and Aeolian titles. I expected, at least, to be able to enjoy better fidelity on the Columbia sides.

While that did indeed occur, I rather quickly became aware that the "Darktown Strutters' Ball" on the Retrieval disc varied in several subtle ways from the take on the Jazz Archives Disc. Indeed, the former disc contains take 4, and the latter take 3. I had never been aware of the fact that two takes of this title existed. Was anyone else? Not a major revelation, of course, but for such an early recording, it was of great interest to me. Thanks.

Posted on Sep 28, 2008, 7:37 AM

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2009 Bix Youth Band

I have agreed to direct the 2009 Bix Youth Band at next summer's Bix Festival in Davenport.

After the trials of last year, I have planned major initiatives to put the band where it should be, as a premier youth trad jazz performing group. We will start this November with auditions, and begin rehearsals in January. I promise a wonderful, enthusiastic, talented band that will be a joy to hear and see.

We will establish a website for the band in October, and I'll let everyone here know about when it goes up. Meanwhile, I have posted my email address here, and I invite any comments and contributions from anyone on the forum.

One problem that I will be addressing immediately is the funding of the band. The Bix Society can only do so much; we are going to create our own funding to allow for real life professional experience for the fine young people we will recruit between now and January.

I know it seems like it's all a long way off, but every day the calendar ticks over another day, and we have a lot to do.

Be ready to enjoy the result!

Posted on Sep 22, 2008, 6:39 PM

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Let's all rally and support the Bix Youth Band!!!

by Liz Beiderbecke-Hart

I strongly encourage everyone who visits this website to financially support this worthy cause. What finer tribute to Bix could there be than to support the next generation in pursuing traditional jazz? I can only imagine how enthusiastic Bix would be to know that there are young people out there able and willing to pursue music of any kind, especially trad jazz. Bix was a very humble man, but I feel that he would be especially proud to know that the Youth Band carries his name.
Kudos to Bruce Bogen for his enthusiasm, hard work and foresight in the leadership of this dedicated band. Kudos also to all the musicians who are the core of this wonderful band.
Thank you.

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 10:28 PM

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Re: Let's all rally and support the Bix Youth Band!!!

Wow, Liz! What a wonderful thing to say! We will do our best to live up to the spirit of your comments.

As to any financial support, there will be some information about that coming out next month. We are setting up a website just for the Youth Band, and we are setting up proper accounting and procedures. That's not done yet, but within a few weeks there will be a way to help that allows for independent monitoring and oversight so that people can have confidence that their generosity will never be abused.

Posted on Sep 30, 2008, 11:13 AM

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R.I.P. - Richard Sudhalter

by Enrico Borsetti

Richard Merrill Sudhalter

December 28th, 1938
Boston, Massachusetts

September 19th, 2008
New York, New York

Sudhalter grew up in Newton, Massachusetts with his father who played the saxophone and 'clearly defined' the quality of music expected of him at a young age. At 12 he took up the cornet and by his teens was playing in Boston nightclubs.

Sudhalter obtained his degree in music and English Lit. at Oberlin College before relocating to Europe in 1960, where he pursued careers in music and broadcasting. He joined the United Press International (UPI) as a news correspondent reporting on the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia.

In 1974, Sudhalter performed as a sideman for cornettist Bobby Hackett with his band Commodore on Hackett's only UK tour forming the New Paul Whiteman Orchestra.

Sudhalter�s music career continued to flourish in the 80's, winning Grammy Awards for his annotations as well as producing and playing on many albums through the 90's and releasing aforementioned books in 1999 and 2001

Sudhalter's biography of Bix Beiderbecke, entitled "Bix: Man and Legend" was published in 1974 (Sudhalter played Bix Beiderbecke's cornet solos during his stint with Hackett.) A quarter-century later, his award winning book �Lost Chords: White Musicians and Their Contribution to Jazz, 1915-1945" published in 1999, followed two years later by �Stardust Melody: The Life and Music of Hoagy Carmichael� published in 2001.

Posted on Sep 19, 2008, 3:53 AM

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Re: R.I.P. - Richard Sudhalter

I am sure all of Richard's friends and admirers feel a profound sorrow at the sad news.

For the time being no funeral arrangements, as per Richard's wishes, have been made. However, a celebration of his life will be made in the near future.

Early this year, I wrote a brief biographical sketch. You can read it in

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/SudhalterBiographicalSketch.html

Albert

Posted on Sep 19, 2008, 5:25 AM

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Obituaries

No time to comment. Just a bunch of links.

http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2008/09/tt_richard_m_sudhalter_rip.html

http://www.artsjournal.com/rifftides/2008/09/dick_sudhalter_19382008.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/19/AR2008091903832_pf.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/arts/music/20sudhalter.html

http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/news-bites/2008/09/19/dick-sudhalter/

https://securesite.chireader.com/cgi-bin/Archive/abridged2.bat?path=1999/991119/HOTTYPE&search=richard%20sudhalter

Albert

Posted on Sep 20, 2008, 5:25 AM

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Sympathy Cards can be sent to ....

Dorothy Kellogg
355 East 72nd St.
New York NY 10021

Albert

Posted on Sep 21, 2008, 6:46 AM

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Re: R.I.P. - Richard Sudhalter

Richard's untimely illness and death is terribly sad and tragic. It is fitting that he passed on the 80th anniversary of the recording of "Sweet Sue" by Bix with Paul Whiteman.

Dave Weiner

Posted on Sep 19, 2008, 6:40 AM

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Re: R.I.P. - Richard Sudhalter

by hal smith

Very sad indeed. I first got to know Richard when he was with Vince Giordano's New California Ramblers in the early 1970's. He will be missed.

Posted on Sep 19, 2008, 11:12 PM

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For George F

George,

I inadvertently erased your message about Richard Sudhalter.
Please, post again.

Apologies

Albert

Posted on Sep 23, 2008, 4:45 AM

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Sudhalter

by George Ferrick

If for no other reason, he will be remembered for his great book, Lost Chords.

Posted on Sep 24, 2008, 9:16 AM

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My Response to the Washington Post Obituary on Richard Sudhalter

Editor
The Washington Post

Dear Editor:

I was appalled by the one-sided obituary of Richard Sudhalter published by Mr. Matt Schudel in the Sep 20, 2008 issue of your newspaper.

The title, �Jazz History Left Bitter Note,� already gives a preview of the biased comments and views to follow. The jazz history referred to is Richard Sudhalter�s book �Lost Chords: White Musicians and Their Contribution to Jazz, 1915-1945.�

If Sudhalter�s magnificent tome �left bitter note,� it is because some did not bother to read the book beyond the first few pages, or, perhaps, even beyond the title. The essence of the book was not a political discourse about the relative importance of black and white contributions to jazz. Sudhalter�s book (890 + xxii pages) used at least 98% of the space to provide biographies of several white jazz giants, technical analyses of the music they created (several transcriptions are included), commentaries by the author, bibliographic references and notes. I estimate that less than 1% of the space is devoted to the racial questions raised Mr. Schudel.

Mr. Schudel quoted only from highly negative sources, Branford Marsalis, Gerald Early and unnamed sources who likened Richard Sudhalter to conservative commentator Pat Buchanan. Why were there no quotes from favorable reviews of the book?

In order to counteract the negative impression left by Mr. Schudel�s unrepresentative quotes, I wish to provide quotes from favorable reviews of �Lost Chords.�

Mr. Phillip D. Atteberry, Professor of Music at the University of Pittsburgh, wrote in the April 1999 issue of The Mississippi Rag, �It is not possible, in a single review, to touch upon all the excellences of this book. Suffice to say that the chapters on Artie Shaw, Red Norvo and Mildred Bailey, Pee Wee Russell and Jack Teagarden are as intelligent and insightful as anything I've read on the topic. Most books embellish or refine an existing way of thinking. Only a few books prompt us to think in fundamentally new ways, to see a subject through an entirely new lens. �Lost Chords� is one of those rare books.�

Mr. William Youngren wrote in the February 1999 issue of Atlantic Magazine, �In these politically correct times any explicit recognition of white achievement in certain areas of endeavor, of which jazz is one, is in danger of being taken as a backhanded attempt to denigrate black achievement. Nothing could be further from Sudhalter's intent.� �Lost Chords is a lifetime guide to its subject -- the sort of book that in a sense one never finishes.�

In his obituary for Richard Sudhalter, distinguished music critic and author Terry Teachout wrote, �Dick Sudhalter wrote three of the most important books ever published about jazz and American popular music, Bix: Man and Legend, Lost Chords: White Musicians and Their Contribution to Jazz, 1915-1945, and Stardust Melody: The Life and Music of Hoagy Carmichael.�

In his obituary of Richard Sudhalter, print and broadcast journalist Doug Ramsey wrote, �Because of its subtitle, �Lost Chords: White Musiicans and Their Contributions to Jazz, 1915-194.� was reflexively attacked by partisans who chose to see it as an effort to diminish the importance of black musicians. Had they bothered to read the book, they would have found that Sudhalter does quite the opposite while balancing the historical record of achievement in jazz and providing deep insights into the nature of the music.�

Clearly, Richard Sudhalter�s book was misinterpreted by some critics and musicians. It is unfortunate that Mr. Matt Schudel chose to quote only from those who misinterpreted Sudhalter�s aim in writing the book. In Sudhalter�s own words, �[This book] is anything but an exercise in one-upsmanship or retaliation: any attempt to look at the music without regard to such seminal figures as Armstrong, Ellington, Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Henry Allen, Sid Catlett, Benny Carter, and the rest would be folly. Their primacy, and the reverence in which they are held, belong to the unquestioned foundation on which the whole edifice rests.�

Albert Haim

Department of Chemistry
State University of New York
Stony Brook NY 11794-3400
Voice (631)751-5602
e-mail alhaim@notes.cc.sunysb.edu

Albert Haim is Professor Emeritus at the State University of New York at Stony Brook and founder and webmaster of the site entirely devoted to jazz musician Bix Beiderbecke

http://bixbeiderbecke.com

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 1:49 PM

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The Review of "Lost Chords" in the New York Times and My Response

The Review in the New York Times

July 11, 1999

White Men Can Jam Jazz, the author argues, is not just the music of black America.

By JASON BERRY
LOST CHORDS
White Musicians and Their Contribution to Jazz, 1915-1945.
By Richard M. Sudhalter.
Illustrated. 890 pp. New York:
Oxford University Press.

This is a mountainous, flawed, vast reach of a book that promotes a color-blind interpretation of jazz history. ''The music may not be so much a black American experience as an American experience, with various racial and ethnic groups playing indispensable and interlocking roles,'' Richard M. Sudhalter, a trumpeter and the co-author of a biography of Bix Beiderbecke, writes in ''Lost Chords,'' a gold mine of information on white jazzmen, many of whom deserve a better spotlight. Sudhalter's profiles of Beiderbecke, Emmett Hardy, Red Nichols, Artie Shaw, Jack Teagarden and Pee Wee Russell meld elegant musical analysis with a passion for the personalities and for how some artists managed to find personal harmonies despite the chasm of racial segregation.

There is, for example, a poignant account of the final years of Pee Wee Russell, who struggled with alcoholism and in his twilight years also became an abstract painter. In 1951, Sudhalter writes, ''a Life magazine photo, widely circulated at the time,'' showed Louis Armstrong and Jack Teagarden, ''concern etched on their faces, bending over the bedside of an emaciated, grievously ill Russell. What millions of Life readers didn't see was what editors had discreetly cropped out: a lit, half-smoked cigarette in the sick man's hand.''

The image of Armstrong, who rose from a ghetto to global celebrity, joining a white trombonist to visit a white clarinetist on his sickbed seems a cameo for Sudhalter's thesis of the ''interlocking roles'' of ethnic groups. How much social intercourse among musicians was there across the racial divide? Sudhalter cites some examples, like Jelly Roll Morton recording in Chicago with the white New Orleans Rhythm Kings in the 1920's; but his assimilationist theory of jazz comes off as a strained polemic.

''Jazz, says the now-accepted canon, is black: there have been no white innovators, few white soloists of real distinction,'' he writes. He quotes Barbara Tuchman on the temptations of judging one era by the standards of a later one and Arthur Schlesinger Jr. on the dangers of the ''noble lie'' in multiculturalism. Eminent historians, both -- but to what end? For the most part, Sudhalter does not attack the standard jazz histories or show them to be skewed. Instead, he personifies the ''black creationist canon'' in its alleged architect, the cultural critic Albert Murray. Sudhalter denounces Murray's celebrated 1976 book, ''Stomping the Blues,'' for ''the thesis, much discussed and written about in the 1920's, that what has come to be called jazz music is only an outgrowth, an extension, of the blues.'' But ''Stomping the Blues'' is a much more nuanced exploration of the blues as a cultural sensibility. Among other things, Murray draws a fascinating link between Saturday night dances fueled by a blues worldview and Sunday morning church services with rolling sermons and people swaying in pews -- a river flowing between secular haunts and sacred spaces. The role of religious memory in the black folkways that led to jazz does not fit Sudhalter's thesis. At one point, he casually remarks that spirituals are ''a tradition now known to be shared almost equally by black and white'' -- a stunning statement, if taken at face value.

Compositions are indeed a common cultural property, but performing styles can range so greatly as to alter the impact if not the meaning of many lyrics. The late-19th-century tours of the Fisk Jubilee Singers exposed white audiences in the United States and Europe to songs shaped by Christian witness through the experiences of slavery. Is that a tradition ''shared almost equally by black and white''? If indeed Sudhalter has a revisionist take on the spirituals, it is worth more than a sentence.

In the section on New Orleans, he writes: ''A growing body of research has now begun to place early accounts by all parties in an accurate temporal and factual matrix. . . . Such figures as the cornetist Buddy Bolden, once imbued with almost superhuman powers, have gradually been stripped of their veneer of legend.'' New Orleans in the early 1900's was quite a melting pot; however, it never would have been the birthplace of jazz had it not been for the fertile black culture that teemed with churches, street parades and funeral celebrations, a culture that gave voice to the stirrings of freedom and created a body of cultural memory.

Jazz arose from the march of African polyrhythm into European instrumentation and melody. Sicilian musicians like Nick LaRocca and Leon Roppolo, among other whites, advanced a line of New Orleans music that drew off brass band traditions. ''Interlocking roles'' suggests a parity of stylistic inventiveness among such players and Buddy Bolden, the hard-driving, bluesy cornet player who had a galvanizing effect on black dancers and paved the way for more illustrious players like the young Armstrong.

In one of his stranger assertions, Sudhalter cites Donald Marquis as one of several scholars responsible for ''the true history of New Orleans jazz'' that ''has begun to emerge.'' Marquis's 1978 biography, ''In Search of Buddy Bolden,'' disproved some colorful stories (like the notion that Bolden published a scandal sheet) but hardly unpeeled the ''veneer of legend.'' Subtitled ''The First Man of Jazz,'' the book endorsed Bolden's musical prowess and gave substance to the legend.

Had Sudhalter written a straightforward history of white jazzmen, he might well have made a contribution to the debate about culture and national identity. But his notion that each strand in the tapestry of jazz holds comparable weight devalues the genius of African polyphony, not to mention the powerful presence of black church music as a catalytic force in the early years.

Sudhalter is right to assert a role for white musicians in jazz history. If only he had used more light and less heat to make his case.

Jason Berry's books include ''Up From the Cradle of Jazz: New Orleans Music Since World War II.'' He is a jazz scholar at the Historic New Orleans Collection and is working on a history of brass band funerals.

************************************************************

My Response (The editor did not publish it, darn!)

July 13, 1999

The New York Times
229 West 43rd Street
New York NY 10836

Attention: Editor of Book Review

Dear Editor:

In my opinion, a book review of a non-fiction work must provide general information about the overall content of the book and an objective critique of the author�s approach, accuracy, completeness, etc. After reading Mr. Jason Berry�s review (Sunday Book Review 7/11/99) of Richard Sudhalter�s scholarly tome �Lost Chords: White Musicians and Their Contribution to Jazz, 1915-1945�, I only had a vague idea of the factual content of the book. Had I not read the book, I would have thought that the essence of the book was a political discourse about the relative importance of black and white contributions to jazz. I estimate that 90% of Mr. Berry�s review analyzes socio-political questions; less than 10% refers to the substantive content of the book. In contrast, Sudhalter�s book (890 + xxii pages) uses at least 98% of the space to provide biographies of several white jazz giants, technical analyses of the music they created (several transcriptions are included), commentaries by the author, bibliographic references and notes. I estimate that less than 1% of the space is devoted to the questions raised by Mr. Berry. Most of what Mr. Berry quotes and criticizes is taken from the 8-page introduction. The reader of the review is left in the dark (or at best in very dim light) as to the real essence of Sudhalter�s contribution.
Perhaps, had Mr. Berry ventured beyond the first few pages with an open mind, he would have realized that he was dealing with a masterpiece of jazz history that presents an accurate and highly technical analysis of the seminal contributions of white musicians to the development of jazz. �Lost Chords� is not an essay on the relative influence on jazz of black and white musicians. Rather, it is an account of the outstanding creativity of white jazz artists. As stated by Phillip D. Atteberry, Professor of Music at the University of Pittsburgh, in the April 1999 issue of The Mississippi Rag: " It is not possible, in a single review, to touch upon all the excellences of this book. Suffice to say that the chapters on Artie Shaw, Red Norvo and Mildred Bailey, Pee Wee Russell and Jack Teagarden are as intelligent and insightful as anything I've read on the topic. Most books embellish or refine an existing way of thinking. Only a few books prompt us to think in fundamentally new ways, to see a subject through an entirely new lens. �Lost Chords� is one of those rare books. It takes a large investment of time, but it's worth it. In most respects, this is a book that jazz lovers will never finish but will keep returning to as their listening trails expand." Obviously, Mr. Berry is unable, or unwilling, to view the history of jazz from a fresh point of view.
For readers who want an in-depth and balanced critique of Sudhalter�s book, I recommend the review by William H. Youngren in the February issue of Atlantic Monthly (available on the web at http://www.theatlantic.com/atlantic/issues/99feb/jazz.htm).

Sincerely,

Albert Haim

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 2:43 PM

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More Obituaries.

In the London Times

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article4811984.ece

German Bixophile Friedrich sends this bit of news in the Jazzinstitut Darmstadt Jazz News.

22. September 2008

Richard Sudhalter

Der Kornettist und Jazzforscher Richard Sudhalter starb am 19. September in New York nach langer Krankheit im Alter von 69 Jahren. Als Kind war er auf eine Bix-Beiderbecke-Platte seines Vaters gesto�en und hatte daraufhin begonnen Kornett zu spielen. 1960 zog er nach �sterreich, wo er als Englischlehrer unterrichtete, und spielte von 1960-66 au�erdem regelm��ig in M�nchen mit der Riverboat Seven. Von 1962 bis 1976 lebte er in M�nchen und London, arbeitete als Musiker und Journalist. Nach seiner R�ckkehr nach New York spielte er mit der New York Jazz Repertory Company und dem Classic Jazz Quartet, das er mit dem Pianisten Dick Wellstood leitete. Er war Mitautor eines Buches �ber Bix Beiderbecke (1974) und ver�ffentlichte 1999 das Buch "Lost Chords", das sich mit der wei�en Fr�hgeschichte des Jazz befasste und in der Jazzszene f�r einigen politischen Wirbel sorgte. 2002 ver�ffentlichte er sein letztes Buch, "Stardust Road" �ber Leben und Werk von Hoagy Carmichael. Nachrufe: Washington Post, New York Times, The Independent, Los Angeles Times.

Albert

Forum Owner

Posted on Oct 1, 2008, 6:01 AM

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Norman Payne.

"The Influence of Bix Beiderbecke CD set includes, in volume 2, several tracks by British trumpeteer Norman Payne, a great admirer of Bix.

German Bixophile Friedrich H kindly sent two Norman Payne items.

1. An article by Nick Dellow ("our" Nick). To read the article go to

http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/%7Ealhaim/ArticlesinMagazines.htm#NormanPayne

2. An mp3 file of Spike Hughes' "Cinderella Brown" recorded in London on Jul 16, 11930 with
Norman Payne, Bill Gaskin t
Jock Fleming tb
Phil Cardew cl
Harry Hines cl, bar
Philip Buchel as
George Hurley vn
Gerry Moore p
Spike Hughes sb
Bill Harty d
To listen to this thune

copy and paste bixography.com/CinderellaBrownSpikeHughes.mp3 (for Bob K: can you hear this file?)

Another page of interest about Norman Payne is

http://www.jabw.demon.co.uk/npayne.htm

And don't forget Norman Payne's interview by Nick. Go to

http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/%7Ealhaim/audiotapes.htm#interviewnormanpayne

Many, many fascinating titbits in Nick's article. The ones I want to highlight are

"He [Chelsea Quealey] used to work his solos out, like a lot of the musicians at the time.
He was a great admirer of Bix, and Bix had the habit of keeping a hip flask in his back pocket. So Chelsea followed suite and had a hip flask in his back pocket too."

"One of the most impressive performances from Norman with Fred during this period with Elizalde is a long solo on "How Long Has This Been Going On?", way ahead of any British trumpet playeractive at the time."

You can hear this recording in http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/elizalde/howlong.ram

Parenthetically, you can hear this tune played by Harry Hudson's man with Sylvester Ahola on trumpet, short solo but pure Hooley. Go to WBIX 1-50 http://bixography.com/wbix1to50.html and click on "Streaming Audio File" for program # 12. The tune comes in at exactly 5:00 min.

"[Arthur] Lally played bass sax uncannily like Rollini, and his work has often been mistaken as Rollini's."

"Adrian [Rollini] had brought over with him a whole pile of Bill Challis arrangements written for Whiteman and Trumbauer."

The Challis arrangements for Bix with Whiteman are well documented in Don Rayno's book on Whitemena. While I am on vacation, maybe an enterprising young (or old) man can prepare a list of all Challis arrangements for Bix and Tram.

Albert

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 11:35 AM

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Vacation

I will be gone late tomorrow and will return on Sep 29. I will check the forum daily, but not often. So please be patient if your post is not approved for a few hours. Those of you who are registered users can have your post appear on the page immediately by doing the following.

Go to http://network54.com
login
Go to http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/

Now you are ready to post (new or response): your message will be visible as soon as you click on "post."

If you forgot your login name/password, please let me know at

ahaim@bixography.com

Albert Haim
Forum Owner

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 10:06 AM

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Another Photo of a Band in the Apeda Studio

Thanks to the generosity of Nick, here is a photo of the Georgians in the Apeda Studio.

We discusssed photos of bands in the Apeda studio quite extensively in the forum. To find old postings, search under "Apeda."

The Georgians with Frank Guarente as leader was a band within the Paul Specht band. The band with Guarente recorded between Nov 1922 and May 1924. Guarente went to Europe in May 1924 and led "The New Georgians." The recordings of the Georgians post May 1924 feature other trumpet players, Leo McConville , Red Nichols, Charlie Spivak and Sylvester Ahola. There are also recordings by bands named the Georgians on Cameo. Lincoln, and Romeo but they are by a band led by Bob Haring. The Georgians on Silvertone are Al Mayer's Collegians, and the Georgians on Pathe and Perfect are by Sam Lanin or Willard Robison. (This info from Rust Jazz Records).

Let's identify the musicians. One per person, please.

I'll start the ball rolling. The first guy on the left in the second row is Chauncey Morehouse (later with Goldkette).

Albert

Posted on Sep 17, 2008, 1:32 PM

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Georgians photo ID

by John Leifert

Well, I can add two more: the chap standing in the center in front of the window and just behind the sarrusaphone (??) is PAUL SPECHT himself, and the fellow on the bottom right with his hand on the piano is ARTHUR SCHUTT.

John L

Posted on Sep 17, 2008, 3:45 PM

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instrument ID

Hi, John, and all--

The instrument in front of Paul Specht is a bass clarinet, which means that Johnny O'Donnell is somewhere in this picture. Some of the early Georgians sides have hot bass clarinet soloes. What a neat and interesting sound!

Mike

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 5:06 AM

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I agree, I agree!

I love the sound of the bass clarinet. If I was 10 years old and had a chance to learn a musical instrument, I would choose the bass clarinet.

According to Rust, Paul Specht's Society Serenaders consisted of

Paul Specht - vn, dir
Frank Guarente, Donald Lindlay - t
Ray Stilwell - tb
Harold Saliers - cl, bcl, as
Johnny O'Donnell - cl, as
Frank Smith - cl, ts
Al Monquin - bsx, a
Arthur Schutt - p
Ruseel Deppe - bj
Joe Tarto - bb
Chauncey Morehouse - d

A total of 12 musicians. The photo has only 9. So maybe Johnny O'Donnell is not in the picture. But, but ... Rust tells us that Saliers was the bass clarinet player?

Albert

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 6:22 AM

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Re: Another Photo of a Band in the Apeda Studio

by Klaus H

Back row, second from right is Russell Deppe, banjo, I believe.

Posted on Sep 17, 2008, 5:19 PM

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It just dawned on me that the band in the photo in ....

.... the home page of the American Dance Bands Yahoo group

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/American-Dance-Bands/

is that of Paul Specht.

There was quite a bit of discussion about this photo in the first few postings of the group. The photo came from Rust's "The Dance Bands." Rust gives 1926 as the date and the following personnel, Charlie Spivak, Sylvester Ahola -trumpet, Al Philburn - trombone, Ernie Warren, Foster Morehouse - Clarinet, soprano & alto sax, Jack Cressy - Clarinet & alto sax, Phil Wall - piano, Lou Calabrese - banjo, Billy Wolfe - brass bass, Johnny Morris - drums.

However, as the discussion proceeded, it became clear that Rust's assignment of musicians was wrong. Joe Moore wrote on Aug 27, 2006,

"I have a very similar photo to this in a Buescher "house magazine" dated about April 1923. At this time Specht was playing at the Hotel Astor, which had the distinctive stone (?) railings around the bandstand. The personnel of that band was given in the magazine as:

Johnny O'Donnell -Reeds

Russell Morgan -Trombone

Harold Saliers -Reeds

Donald Lindley -Trumpet

Francis Smith -Reeds

Frank Guarente -Trumpet

Chauncey Morehouse -Drums

Arthur Schutt- Piano

Russell Deppe- Banjo

Joe Tarto- Buescherphone (sic!)

Paul L. Specht- Director/Composer/Arranger (also sic....)

The accompanying article also states "...his own personally conducted orchestra is booked for a London season opening in May 1923." Donald Lindley didn't come on the London trip, which was to play at the opening of Lyons Corner House at Coventry St, London."

I was unable to decipher the name of the studio in the lower right hand corner of the photo in the yahoo site. I looked up in my copy of "Dance Bands" and report that it reads "National, NY."

From http://www.saxgourmet.com/buescher.htm

The very first saxophone manufactured in the United States was made by Gus Buescher (it's properly pronounced "Bisher") in 1888 when he was employed by the C. G. Conn Company. In 1895, Gus started his own company, and before long he was making an excellent and highly regarded line of saxophones. He continued to manage the affairs of the company until his retirement in 1929.

What is a "Buescherphone"? A sousaphone manufactured by Buescher?

Joe Tarto played all kinds of bass instruments. Here is one of the most unusual ones, an 8-foot tuba!.

Here is a photo of the Paul Specht band in the Columbia recording studio in 1922.

Here is a better copy from http://www.mainspringpress.com

Finally, I found in http://www.nfo.net/usa/s3.html the same photo kindly sent by Nick. It is a photo of Paul Specht and His Society Serenaders.

Albert

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 5:59 AM

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Date

by Veniero Molari

The picture in the Columbia Studio is 1929,because the banjo is a Suoer Patamount,introduced only in that year.Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 2:55 PM

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Cannot be 1929.

Morehouse and Schutt are in the photo. Morehouse was gone by 1924 and Schutt by 1925. I think 1922 is right.

Albert

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 4:41 PM

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Super Paramount Banjo

by Veniero Molari

Sorry,but the banjo with its characteristic "multilayer cake" was produced only starting in 1929,see [url]http://www.whitetreeaz.com/vintage/banjomfg.htm[/url] See also the page of the Paramount catalog.
Banjos started to have a resonator in 1921 (Paramount),followed by Vega and Bacon after two or three years.
What about an occasional meeting in 1929 or later? (in the site it is written "date unknown"
Good holiday,Veniero

[IMG]

[/IMG]
P.S.This is my first essay to send an image with my messages

Posted on Sep 19, 2008, 4:53 AM

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Re: Super Paramount Banjo

by Nick Dellow

The Specht photo may be later than 1922, but it can't be later than 1924, as Guarente has left to tour Europe by mid-1924 and never returned to play in the band - period! (and Morehouse also left by the end of 1924, as Albert says). As for the Paramount banjo, there were several earlier models than the "Super" with the same "multilayer cake", such as the Type C:-

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 19, 2008 7:03 AM

Posted on Sep 19, 2008, 6:47 AM

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Paramount type "C"

by Veniero Molari

Sorry,but Paramount style C has a simple resonator.The only banjo with the double resonator is the Super Paramount.Please check with Banjo Hall of fame or any good banjo dealer.I repeat that in 1924 they were no banjos like that,check other 1924 pictures.Be kind,let me win for once... Veniero

Posted on Sep 20, 2008, 1:48 PM

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Weymann Style 1500 banjo

by Nick Dellow

I sent the photo of the Paul Specht Band to Johnny Baier of the American Banjo Museum and he kindly sent the following response:-

"The banjo is a Weymann Style 1500. It's an unusual design for Weymann, with a deep wooden shell (which gives a look similar to the Super Paramount banjos). Anyway, it is consistent with the timeframe you mentioned."

So, therefore, it fits the 1922-1924 timeframe for the photo.

Posted on Sep 23, 2008, 10:05 AM

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Date

by Veniero Molari

Apologies and shame on me.The Weymann banjo is"late 1924" as per following URL http://www.whitetreeaz.com/vintage/banjomfg.htm#WEYMANN
Thanks for your patience,all the best,Veniero

Posted on Sep 24, 2008, 11:32 AM

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It's Definitely Pre-1925...

... Note the acoustic recording horn at the back of the musicians! -Brad K

Posted on Sep 24, 2008, 6:47 PM

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Apeda Studios

by Klaus H

Although I'm sure it has been dealt with and is in the archives somewhere, here is a nice website with a background of Apeda Studios;

http://broadway.cas.sc.edu/index.php?action=showPhotographer&id=57

Posted on Sep 25, 2008, 9:06 AM

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Lou Calabrese family member looking for info

Hello,
My wife is Lou Calabrese's grand daughter. Lou's daughter, Gloria is still alive and lives near Denver. I have learned a lot about Lou from them, but still want more.
Many of the statements they make are seemingly based of hazy recollection and second hand. For instance, my wife has a wrist watch that was supposedly given to Lou by Paul Whiteman while he was playing fiddle for him. It seems so small, but it's hard to resist the ring of truth to the story.
What I am looking for is dates and places for his career. I have been able to work out most of his later life. I also know he was in the Capitolians from 25-28 and he is seen in the movie shorts playing banjo, guitar and horn.
They have a news clip that says he went to Europe with Specht that I have yet to see. There is reference on the web that he played for Burt Lown, but I have not been able to find any info on that either.
Did he work with Biederbeck?
Thanks for what ever you folks can tell me.
Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr.

Posted on Oct 23, 2008, 3:50 PM

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Move

I moved your posting to the first page. Few people look at old messages.

Albert

Posted on Oct 24, 2008, 12:02 PM

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The News About Richard Sudhalter Is Not Encouraging.

Richard was admitted to NY Presbyterian Hospital after two horrible days at the nursing home. He is now being treated in the hospital for very severe pneumonia. The physicians taking care of Richard in the hospital are not very optimistic.

Albert

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 2:17 PM

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Benny Goodman Honored Bix Beiderbecke in his radio program of Sep 6, 1938.

From the Wisconsin State Journal of Sep 6, 1938.

WBBBM - Benny Goodman honors memory of Bix Beiderbecke playing his "In A Mist." "

From the Mason City Globe-Gazette, Tuesday Sep 6, 1938.

Goodman Honors Bix Beiderbecke.
Benny Goodman and His Swingsters will play a memorial to the late Bix Beiderbeke, one of music's greatest "hot" trumpeters and pianists during their Caravan broadcast over KGLO Tuesday at 7:30 pm.
Although it is not generally known, Goodman played in the same bands with Beiderbecke during their early days in Chicago. Other features of the broadcast will be "Chicago" and "Margie" by the band; the quartet's own arrangement of "Shine" and Martha Tilton's swing singing of "You Go to My Head."

WBBM was the Chicago radio station that was part of the Columbia Broadcasting System network. It is now an all-news station like many CBS stations in big cities around the US.

KGLO was a radio station in Mason City, Iowa, that was part of the Columbia Broadcasting System network. It is now a farm, news, weather and sports station.

Here is BG in the 1930s, from jazzinamerica.org

Albert

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 6:01 AM

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Addendum

The complete Camel Caravan shows of Sep 6 and 13, 1938 are available in

http://www.mtraks.com/artist/benny_goodman/release/42307-complete_camel_caravan_shows_september_1938

You can hear fragments of each track free, buy one track (mp3 format) for $0.99 or the whole works for $9.99.

Albert

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 6:39 AM

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Did you recognize the voice of the announcer?

http://wc06.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=50:fjfuxblrldke~T

Could it be Bob Hope? Agree? Disagree?

Albert

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 9:29 AM

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Re: Did you recognize the voice of the announcer?

by Klaus H

It seems to be some generic radio announcer voice but, I think, definitely not Bob Hope. The show was broadcast from Chicago, and at that time Hope was in California preparing for his upcoming Pepsodent show.

Cite: Bob Hope
By William Robert Faith, pp. 102-14

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 10:50 AM

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Camel Caravan announcer

by John Leifert

I think the announcer is Bill Goodwin - I have some of these Camel Caravan broadcasts where he mentions his name at the end of the broadcast. I think by this time Bob Hope had bigger fish to fry!!

John L

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 12:28 PM

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More on "that announcer"

by John Leifert

Re the September 6, 1938 Camel Caravan, it still sounds like Bill Goodwin to me, however here is a past from radiogoldindex.com (David Goldin's index of vintage radio shows in his collection) in which he mentions the Sept. 6, 1938 announcer as one DAN SEYMOUR:

72852. The Camel Caravan. September 6, 1938. CBS net. Sponsored by: Camels, Prince Albert Pipe Tobacco. The program originates from Chicago. The first tune is, "Chicago." Benny Goodman and His Orchestra, Martha Tilton (vocal), Dan Seymour (announcer), Jess Stacy (piano), Davey Tough (drums), Lionel Hampton (vibes). 29:59. Audio condition: Excellent. Complete.

John L

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 12:35 PM

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Re: Did you recognize the voice of the announcer?

Definitely Bill Goodwin - the regular announcer of the show - later a movie actor.

Dave

Posted on Sep 17, 2008, 10:37 PM

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Re: Did you recognize the voice of the announcer?

I said Bill Goodwin, but I meant Dan Seymour - oopsie!

Dave W.

Posted on Sep 17, 2008, 10:38 PM

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Bill Goodwin

by Steve Zalusky

By the way, the announcer Bill Goodwin is the father of jazz drummer Bill Goodwin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Goodwin_(jazz_drummer)

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 7:43 AM

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Announcer

I remember Dan Seymour as one of the top radio announcers of the 1930s and '40s and I am pretty sure it was not him. I'll go along with Bill Goodwin.

Posted on Sep 19, 2008, 7:41 PM

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Paul Bocciolone Strandberg

by Gilbert M. Erskine

My hat is off to you for your outstanding post on 09/04/08, NORK INFLUENCE IN ENGLAND, especially regarding the NORK recording of TIGER RAG, 08/30/22].

A while back I was putting on tape what I regard as the very best of early jazz. Already very familiar with Armstrong, Bix, Jelly Roll, Joe Oliver, Teschemacher, etc., I had not paid all that much attention to the NORK.

As George Brunis once told me, "those records sound funny these days." I was definitely put off by the stiff playing of Paul Mares.

Anyway, I am now absolutely floored by Roppolo's playing on MAPLE LEAF RAG, and, especially, TIGER RAG [Gennett 4968, 08/30/22]. What a superb jazz musician!

You are undoubtedly correct in pointing out that the NORK's TIGER RAG was the basis for subsequent band recordings of this tune. In any event, the Wolverine's recording of the tune on 06/20/24 went unissued until the Hot Record Society put it out in the 1930s, and hence had no influence on anyone in the 1920s. Bix no doubt heard the NORK side, but probably was more familiar with the ODJB version [Victor 18472, 03/25/18].

Many years ago, a writer for a weekly news magazine [I think it was TIME] was commenting on Benny Goodman recordings, and referred back to Leon Roppolo as "the King of Kings." How right he was!

Posted on Sep 14, 2008, 6:38 PM

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Re: Paul Bocciolone Strandberg

by Klaus H

Any recommendations of a representative CD?

Posted on Sep 14, 2008, 6:48 PM

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This is the best set

by Paul Bocciolone Strandberg

This is the best set: New Orleans Rhythm Kings 1922-1925 The Complete Set, Retrieval RTR79031 (double CD).

Posted on Sep 15, 2008, 4:59 AM

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Bix's solo in "Tiger Rag."

Indeed, the Wolverines recording of "Tiger Rag," waxed on June 20, 1924 was not released commercially until 1936, English Brunswick and HRS.

However, the recording had an enormous influence in 1925-27. Bix's cornet solo was copied almost note for note in recordings by the the following bands.

May 4, 1925. California Ramblers (under various pseudonyms depending on the record label: Five Birmingham Babies, Goldie�s Syncopators, etc.). Red Nichols and Frank Cush on trumpet.

May 12, 1926. University Six. Chelsea Quealey on trumpet.

May 1926. Purple Pirates Orchestra. Unknown cornetist.

December 1927. Devine�s Wisconsin Roof Orchestra. Dick Happe and Alec Alexander on trumpet.

I presented a hypothesis to explain this puzzling fact in an article published in the Mississppi Rag several years ago. The article is available on line. See

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/copyingbixfinalnoreferences.htm

I also presented this material in lectures at the Tribute to Bix in Racine and The Bix Festival in Davenport.

You can hear Bix's solo followed by the solos in two takes of "Tiger Rag" by Devine's Wisconsin Roof Orchestra in

http://bixography.com/tigerragsolos.ram (interesting aside: the second take by Devine's Wisconsin Roof Orchestra is different from the first)

You can hear the University Six version in

http://bixography.com/tigerragusix.ram

The California Ramblers version is track 6 in volume 1 in the "The Influence of Bix Beiderbecke" CD set. Th liners include a discussion.

Since you are interested in Leon Roppolo I highly recommend Sue Fischer's book in progress. Sue, is the publication date available?

Gilbert, your memory is terrific. Here is what Time wrote about Rappolo [sic, misspelled] on May 12, 1961.

New Orleans Rhythm Kings: Tin Roof Blues (Riverside). Chicago style�blary, jagged, and rough around the edges�by one of the two bands (along with King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band) that ruled the North and South Sides in the old days. Put on wax in the early '20s, these performances are a reminder that the King of the Kings was the late Clarinetist Leon Rappolo, whose solos in such numbers as Tiger Rag and the title song (also known as Jazzin' Babies) are taut as a bent bow.

Here is Roppolo's clarinet solo in the NORK "Tiger Rag."

http://bixography.com/tigerragsolonork.ram

Albert

Posted on Sep 15, 2008, 5:20 AM

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Don Voorhees

Nick, with his characteristic generosity, sends scans of an article aboit Don Voorhees. Nick writes,

"Don Voorhees article comes from "Black and White Jazz" magazine (not sure of the publication date, but I think it is 1945 or 1946). Bix is mentioned towards the end of the article.
Please note that on the second page, after the Voorhees article, there is a discography of the Arcadian Serenaders. This was compiled by Ralph Venables. This was an update to an article that Venables had written about Sterling Bose, listing all the tracks by the Arcadian Serenaders. This article was shown to Sterling Bose in New York and he confirmed his presence on these sides, making just one correction to the Venables article concerning an earlier session by the band - please see the attachment entitled "Sterling Bose comments"."

I'll go to the library tomorrow and look up Donald Voorhees in ancestry.com

Albert

Posted on Sep 14, 2008, 9:06 AM

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Some Recordings by Don Voorhees.

A great version of Rube Bloom's "Soliloquy" is found toward the end of WBIX # 76.

http://bixography.com/wbix51to100.html
http://www.bixography.com/wbix76.ram

You can hear "My Blue Heaven" recorded on Sep 9, 1927 with Red Nichols, Leo McConville, Miff Mole, Bill Trone, Dick McDonough, Lennie Hayton and Vic Berton, among others. The vocal is by Lewis James.

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/COLW144651-3.ram

There are several sides (one of them "Soliloquy") on youtube.com Go to http://youtube.com and search under "Don Voorhees."

Albert

Posted on Sep 14, 2008, 9:55 AM

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Some Interesting Ads

I could not find any biographical information about Don Voorhees in the ancestry.com site. Not in other sources either.

Here is an ad like I have never seen before. it advertises the band, but also gives the complete list of musicians in the band. Have you ever seen an ad like this in the 1920s? For Fredrik: Note that your friend Mike Mosiello is listed as one of the trumpet players along with Red Nichols.

From the North Adams Evening Transcript July 24, 1926

And here is an ad for Steve H in which Red Nichols is featured as a member of the band.

From the North Adams Evening Transcript July 24, 1926

Albert

Posted on Sep 15, 2008, 3:13 PM

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I Found Biographical Info on Don Voorhees ....

.... guess where? In all places, imdb.com!!!

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0903383/

Born 26 July 1903, Allentown, Pennsylvania, USA
Died 10 January 1989, Cape May Court House, New Jersey, USA (pneumonia)

We are informed that "He [Voorhees] conducted the orchestra for the "Bell Telephone Hour" from its beginnings on radio in 1942 to its final television broadcast in 1968.
Conducted the pit orchestra for the classic Gershwin show "Girl Crazy" in 1930, a pit orchestra that included such future musical legends as Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, Jimmy Dorsey, Artie Shaw, Red Nichols, and Gene Krupa. Onstage, the show made stars of Ethel Merman and Ginger Rogers."

Looking through the New York Times archives, I found out that Don Voorhees provided the musical accompaniment for the Ed Wynn show in the 1930s. He did a lot of radio work in the 1920s-1940s. In the article kindly made available by Nick, we are told, "Bix would make a point of attending the Sunday night radio broadcasts whenever he had the opportunity. The brilliance of Voorhees bras was something about which Bix never failed to enthuse." Several of these broadcasts are found in the New York Times under radio listings. The Don Voorhees brass section in Sep 1927-Jan 1928 consisted of Red Nichols, Leo McConville, Miff Mole and Bill Trone (from Brian Rust disco).

One of the Bell Telephone TV shows 26 April 1968 (Season 10, Episode 3) was titled "Jazz, the Intimate Art" and featuired tjhe following jazz musicians.

Louis Armstrong ... Himself - Trumpeter
Dave Brubeck ... Himself - Pianist
Dizzy Gillespie ... Himself - Trumpeter
Charles Lloyd ... Himself - Saxophonist
Donald Voorhees ... Himself - Host (as Don Vorhees)

With the new information I found Donald D. Voorhees in the 1920 US census. He is listed as son, age 16, musician, living in Allentown, Lehigh Count, PA. Father and mother born in Pennsylvania. The head of the house hold is George Nagel, age 52, high school teacher. The wife of George W. Nagel is listed as Laura D. Nagel, age 44, born in Pennsylvania. In the 1910 census, the same people are listed together (spelled Nagle) in Harrisburg, PA, but Donald, age 6, is listed as nephew. Maybe by 1920, Donald Voorhees was adopted by George and Laura Nagel/Nagle?

Albert

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 8:34 AM

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Did I Read That Correctly?

Is that "Miff Moleo" that I see, or do my eyes deceive me?

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 1:35 PM

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I read ....

.... Molco. But I defer my old eyes to your young eyes.

Albert

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 1:47 PM

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Oops!

Well Mr. Haim, you might very well be right...I could certainly see it being "Molco" as well. Either way, although it is unfortunate that some of our favourite musicians' names were misspelled even during their heyday, it does make for an amusing read. Wonder how they felt about that during that era of pseudonyms?

Also, way outside our realm, is there a term for the clever type of insstrumental group naming that results in "Red Nichols and His Five Pennies," or is that just what I called it, "clever?" A homophone? Thanks.

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 2:22 PM

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Clever Band Names

by John Leifert

Well, that would be partially correct; the definition of "homophone" is "a word that is pronounced the same as another word but differs in meaning." As the Wikipedia entry states, the word "rose", for example, can mean a flower, and also mean the past tense of "rise".

There are funny examples of this in song titles:

"Why Aren't Yez Eatin' More Oranges? (From Califor-ni-ay)" (getting around the technical impossibility of rhyming anything with the word "orange"!!)

"I Scream - You Scream - We All Scream for Ice Cream"

and the like...

However, I think the name "Red Nichols and His Five Pennies" (also "The Red Heads") is more of a "pun" based on the leader's name. Band leaders back in the 20s, such as Red Nichols, enjoyed basing the name of their band on their last (or sometimes first) names, then twisting the meaning around. Red is only one example - we also have:

a) Phil Napoleon's EMPERORS
b) a pseudonym I've encountered "Al Dollar and His Ten Cents"
c) Al Katz and his KITTENS

...and I'm sure there are legions of others that any of you could think of to add to that list. It's fun, and a small part of what makes that period so delightful for us all...

John L

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 3:48 PM

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I like these two

Miff Mole and His Molers

Boyd Senter and His Senterpedes

Albert

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 6:22 PM

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And this one.

Roger Wolfe Kahn and hisvocal group the Kahn-a-Sirs.

I am sure that most if not all forumites know the origin of the "Five Pennies." Five pennies make up a nicklel, plural nickels which is a homonym/homophone (see below) of Nichols. Supposedly, Vic Berton came up with the name "Five Pennies."

According to dictionary.com

homonym - a word pronounced the same as another but differing in meaning, whether spelled the same way or not, as heir and air.
homograph - One of two or more words that have the same spelling but differ in origin, meaning, and sometimes pronunciation, such as fair (pleasing in appearance) and fair (market) or wind (wĭnd) and wind (wīnd).
homophone - same as homonym

The Columbia Guidet o Standard American English (see bartleby.com) gives

Homographs are words spelled alike but with different meanings and usually with different pronunciations (lead, v. [LEED], meaning �to conduct,� and lead, n. [LED], the name of the metal).
Homophones are words pronounced alike but different in spelling and meaning (to, two, and too).
Homonyms, a more general term, are words spelled or pronounced alike but having different meanings: soar and sore are one sort of homonym; gore, meaning �the tapered piece of cloth in a skirt,� and gore, meaning �blood,� are examples of another sort. Bow, v., �to bend at the waist,� and bow, n., �the front end of a boat,� are homonyms, and some would add the differently pronounced bow, meaning variously �the weapon for shooting arrows,� �the decorative knot used in hair ribbons and bow ties,� �the long, slender rod strung with horsehairs used to play stringed instruments.�

Albert

Posted on Sep 17, 2008, 4:36 AM

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homonym

by Veniero Molari

= two persons having the same name,as John Brown,but being two different individuals.

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 2:44 PM

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More than just the nickel?

by Russell Davies

Not being A U.S. citizen, I hesitate to suggest this from far away, but doesn't the Nichols/Nickels pun go one stage further, to involve the "Red" as well? I've certainly seen the phrase "I don't have a red nickel", clearly meaning "I'm broke". (Since the Mint never made a red nickel, it may be that red-looking ones were worthless forgeries - so the speaker could be saying "I don't even have a fake one".)
R.D.

Posted on Sep 22, 2008, 6:33 AM

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PRE- Red Nichols and His Five Pennies?

The first recording session of Red Nichols and His Five Pennies took place on Dec 8, 1926. Curiously, Miff Mole was not present. Two numbers were waxed, �Hoagy�s �Washboard Blues� and �That�s No Bargain.� The Five Pennies went on recording into the 1950s.

What I want to discuss now is Red Nichols�s recordings that I will name, for wanting of a better expression, PRE-Red Nichols and His Five Pennies.

The Five Pennies were only five in their first recordings. From then on there were more than five musicians in the band. Three of the musicians who were present in most of the Five Pennies recordings, at least in the 1920s, were Red Nichols, Miff Mole, and Vic Berton. Arthur Schutt, Eddie Lang and Jimmy Dorsey were present often.

So who would be PRE-Five Pennies bands, groups with Red Nichols who played in the style of the Five Pennies before their first recording (Dec 8, 1926)? The following are good candidates.

Red and Miff Stompers. Their first recording session was before that of the Five Pennies, Oct 13, 1926. Their last session was on Oct 12, 1927 (POST Five Pennies). Nichols, Mole, and Berton were members of the band. Listen to a pre-Five Pennies recording.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/nichols/alstompb.ram Oct 13, 1926

They sound just like the Five Pennies, of course.

Even earlier than Red and Miff Stompers, we have the Red Heads. They recorded between Nov 13, 1925 and Sep 16, 1927. Nichols, Mole and Berton were in the band. They sort of sound (not quite) like the Five Pennies in 1925. Listen

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/redheads/headinforlouisville.ram Nov 13, 1925

By 1926, they sound like the Five Pennies,

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/redheads/thehurricane.ram Sep 14, 1926

I imagine that the Hottentots also rate as PRE-Five Pennies, although the leader is Louis Katzman (according to Rust). They recorded between Nov 11, 1925 and May 1926. There was an earlier session, Sep 18, 1925 but all takes were rejected. The band that recorded in May 1926 is probably a different band. So we have two sessions, Nov 11, 1925 and Jan 8, 1926. Nichols, Mole and Berton were members of the band. Jimmy Lytell played clarinet in the Jan 8, 1926 session. Listen to one side waxed on that day.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/hottentots/pensacola.ram Jan 8, 1926

Quite a bit like the Five Pennies.

Other PRE-Five Pennies bands discussed by Stephen Stroff in �Red Head � A Chronological Survey of �Red� Nichols and His Five Pennies� are Lanin�s Red Heads, The Cotton Pickers, The Original Memphis Five, the Arkansas Travellers.

I hope that Steve H, Red Nichols�s expert, has comments. Of course, others too!

Albert

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 14, 2008 5:26 AM

Posted on Sep 13, 2008, 1:53 PM

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"The Bix-Hardy Story" by Armand Hug.

Nick kindly sent scans of all pages of an article by Armand Hug published in Jazz Journal in December 1950.

Pianist Armand Hug was born in New Orleans on December 6, 1910, and died in New Orleans on March 19, 1977. He lived in New Orlans most of his life. Hug met Bix in New Orleans on October 28, 1928 when the Paul Whiteman Orchestra gave two concerts in the St. Charles Theatre.

Armand Hug transcribed several Bix recordings for piano and included them in a Jazzology LP album "Bix Hug."

http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/%7Ealhaim/recordingstributes.htm

To read the article by Armand Hug, go to

http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/%7Ealhaim/ArticlesinMagazines.htm#BixHardy

Some of this was discussed in the Bixography in connection with an article in Down Beat and transcriptions of this article by Alex Revell. Search the forum under �Armand Hug� and �Monk Hazel.�

Albert

Posted on Sep 13, 2008, 4:13 AM

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Bix, Hug, Dick, and Sue

In his Jazzology LP "Bix Hug," Armand Hug transcribed for piano several of Bix's solos. In his Reference Records CD "Thinking About Bix," Dick Hyman did the same. One tune transcribed by both Hug and Dick is "Sweet Sue."

Here are streaming files of the two piano interpretations of "Sweet Sue."

Armand Hug http://bixography.com/SweetSue.ram

Dick Hyman http://bixography.com/SweetSueHyman.ram

Here are Armand Hug's comments about "Sweet Sue."

"He [Bix] could take a tune which really wasn't a great tune, like the bridge on Sweet Sue": see his inflections; he would drop those notes; that's where he would get a lot of effect. He goes down into an E flat ninth chord. He hits an A minor and puts an E flat into it."

What does "he would drop those notes" mean? Bend them?

Here are Dick Hyman's comments about "Sweet Sue."

"Rather than emulate Whiteman's 1928 recording of "Sweet Sue", which I find less than a successful attempt to elevate a rather bland pop song to concert status, I've made my own more pianistic arrangement. I keep the basic structure and pick up the original with the brass introduction to Bix's celebrated cornet solo, thence to the grand finale."

Comments?

Albert

Posted on Sep 13, 2008, 8:51 AM

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Sales of "The Influence of Bix Beiderbecke" CD set.

I am pleased to announce that a total of $1365.31 was deposited in Richard Sudhalter's account. This represents all profits so far.

If you have not done so yet, please order your set. It is great music, great reading, and it is for a good cause

http://bixography.com/BixInfluenceFinal.html

The CD set has received critical acclaim. Here is one of the reviews.

From http://www.jazzpolice.com/content/view/7886/55/

"The aim of this compilation is evident from the title, to chart how Bix�s playing cast its spell over those musicians who heard his music, both in person and on record, and how that was then reflected in their own work. This aspect was touched upon in Volume 5 of the Bix Restored set, and care has been taken to avoid duplicating anything on that earlier reissue. [Click here for a Jazz Police review of Bix Restored.]

Just to give you a flavour of the contents, the American disc kicks off with a June 1924 George Olsen recording into which, regardless of the fact that it was an entirely different number, Red Nichols interpolated note-for-note Bix�s February 1924 solo from �Jazz Me Blues.� Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery, he did the same thing with Bix�s solo from �Tiger Rag� during the California Ramblers May 1925 recording of the same number. And here we run up against one of those puzzles that have plagued Bix scholars for years, namely that the Wolverines� recording wasn�t issued until over 10 years later. Max Easterman�s 28-page booklet provides an authoritative guide to this and every other track, dispelling the myths that have grown up around them, not least the thorny question of attribution. That is to say, many of the contributions on record, by such disciples as Andy Secrest, Sterling Bose, and Manny Klein, were virtually indistinguishable from the genuine article.

Turning to the European compilation, there were two reasons why distance did not diminish Bix�s influence. The first was that many of his recordings were issued in England on the Parlophone label, an advertisement for which is reproduced, and reviewed enthusiastically in the Melody Maker by its editor, Edgar Jackson. Secondly, many of the American contingent working in England, not least those playing with Fred Elizalde�s band at the Savoy Hotel, were Bixophiles, and infected others with their enthusiasm. One of the most riveting facts contained in the 36-page booklet by Nick Dellow and Mark Berresford is that on his scouting trip to the States in early 1929, Rollini was hoping to lure Bix back to England with him! Sylvester Ahola, who had played alongside Bix in Adrian Rollini�s short-lived Club New Yorker band, to their mutual benefit, contributed many magnificent solos to British dance band recordings, as did Norman Payne (who probably came closest to capturing Bix�s ethereal quality) and Jack Jackson, but there are many other examples here to savour.

This is a magnificent set which has been a considerable time in the making, and the care that�s been taken shows in every aspect. The two booklets contain many new photographs, and the second includes a complete discography. Many of the original recordings are extremely rare, few have been reissued on CD, and those that have are not easy to come by. The set contains four unissued test pressings, including the hitherto unknown �I�m Glad� by Fred Elizalde. Great care has been taken to track down clean copies, and the remastering is a hallmark of clarity.

Finally, this truly has been a labor of love because all profits from the sale of this set of CDs will go toward helping to meet the ongoing medical expenses of musician and author Richard Sudhalter. It is priced at �15 ($30 US) including p&p, and can be ordered from Jass Masters, 71 Chalk Hill, Watford, Herts WD19 4DA, UK, or by phone to +44-1923-237910 or fax to +44-1923-211510, or email to nick.dellow@gmail.comThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it ; see http://bixography.com/BixInfluenceFinal.html for US ordering information. Payment can be made by PayPal, using the same email address.

Volume One: USA - You�ll Never Get To Heaven With Those Eyes (George Olsen); Where�s My Sweetie Hiding? (Perley Breed); Doo Wacka Doo (Marion McKay); Cataract Rag Blues (Curtis Hitch); Riverboat Shuffle (Jimmy Joy); Tiger Rag (California Ramblers); The Co-Ed (Arcadian Serenaders); Davenport Blues (Miff Mole); A Good Man Is Hard To Find (Original Wolverines); Liza (McKenzie & Condon); Since My Best Gal Turned Me Down (Jan Garber); Why Do I Love You? (Lou Raderman); Crazy Rhythm (Miff Mole); Hula Girl (Andy Aiona); Out Where The Blues Begin (Hotsy Totsy Gang); Wedding Bells (Jazz Pilots);The Eyes of Texas (Carolina Club); *Broadway Rose (Dick McDonough); Alabammy Snow (Mason Dixon Orch); When A Woman Loves A Man (Roger Wolfe Kahn); Papa�s Gone (Fred Gardner); No Trumps (Fred Gardner); Little Did I Know (Casa Loma); Jazz Me Blues (Original Memphis 5); The Blue Room (Dorsey Bros) - 78:29

Volume Two: Europe � Tiger Rag (Original Capitol Orch.); Riverboat Shuffle (Kit-Cat Band); Somebody Said (Crichton Lyricals); Sugar (FE); There�s A Cradle In Caroline (Rhythmic Eight); *Dance, Little Lady (FE); Some Hauntin� Tune (Harry Hudson);*I�m Glad (FE); *Nobody�s Fault But Your Own (Jack Payne); Louisiana (JW); Oh! What A Night To Love (JHy); Forget Me Not (JHy); A Dicky-Bird Told Me So (JW); Gregorology (Gregor): In The Moonlight (NCK); South Sea Rose (NMDO); Every Day Away From You (NMDO); The Song Of The Dawn (JH); I�m Singing My Way Round The World (JH); A Miss Is As Good As A Mile (SH); Minns Du? (Helge Lindberg); A Ship Without A Sail (SH); Kalua (SH); Follow A Star �sel (NMDO); With My Guitar And You (Harry Shalson); Whispering (NCK) - 79:08

Key: FE � Fred Elizalde; JH � Jack Hart; SH � Spike Hughes; JHy � Jack Hylton; NMDO � New Mayfair Dance Orchestra: NCK � Night Club Kings; JW � Jay Whidden *unissued test pressing

This review reprinted with permission from Memory Lane."

Albert

Posted on Sep 12, 2008, 5:30 AM

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Sound Quality

by Frank van Nus

Concerning the sound quality of this set, I'd like to add that it to my ears represents a new landmark. Somehow Nick has managed to unlock a lot more of the harmonics spectrum than what we're used to hearing.

Thus, the overall sound is dramatically better than anything I've heard so far. It is my hope that all those who are contemplating re-issuing 78s will have bought this set by now, and will have concluded that it's "back to the ol' drawing board". Until they've learnt whatever new tricks there are to be learnt, Nick should be remastering all 78 reissues if you ask me.

Frank

Posted on Sep 13, 2008, 1:54 PM

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I agree but have a question

by Paul Bocciolone Strandberg

I agree with Frank that the sound is very good on the new double CD set. However I found the sound of the trumpet solo in Sugar by Fred Elizalde's orchestra (played by Chelsea Quealey) a bit strange, with an echo, almost sounding like it was two trumpets playing in unison. Is it something that is there already in the original source?

Posted on Sep 15, 2008, 1:03 AM

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Part of the answer, but...

by Paul Bocciolone Strandberg

Since nobody answered my question I have to find out some myself. I find that "Sugar" by The Fred Elizalde Orchestra, however great is the performance still has a strange sound, especially obvious in the trumpet solo. It's a sort of an echo and I would even call it a double sound print. (Like when you hear someone holding a speech in a public place and the loud speakers are placed at different distance.) I guess that the present very clear digital transfer makes this even more evident because I did not think so much about this before. I have checked previous releases of the recording and found that other CD's and at least one LP have the same sound. In my collection it goes as far back as the LP "Jazz at the Savoy" on the Decca, Ace of Club series 1962. The sound is probably there on the original release but it would be very interesting to hear the opinion of someone with access to that disc since the the session mate "Dixie" have nothing of this echo or double print. How come?

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 3:28 PM

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Re: Part of the answer, but...

by Nick Dellow

Well, I'm stumped with this one! I listened again and again to the CD and also to the original 78, and I can't heard any "echo" or "double print" of any kind on either the CD or the 78!! The original 78 has slight over modulation, which is nothing particularly unusual, and Quealey sounds as if he is standing back a bit from the microphone while taking his solo, but I can't hear anything that might even begin to explain what you are hearing! Do you hear this effect on different sound systems?

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 2:34 AM

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Thanks for the answer!

by Paul Bocciolone Strandberg

Thanks a lot for taking the trouble to check this out! Since you have the 78 and have listened to it without hearing any difference, what I hear must come from the recording method. It may be that it would be a similar sensation to me if I listened to other big band recordings from the same studio from the same time period. I will not try to impose my impression on others and I may not have been able to explain it very clearly either. Let�s just say that I prefer much the sound of the Chelsea solo on �Dixie� and that I have never had a similar reaction to any American (big band) recording of the time. When you have started to focus on things it is hard to put them aside and I hear the same with different sound systems and also using head phones. As for the new CD set it shows that the quality of the transfer is very good if you hear things in the recordings that you never thought about before. The way things happened, by buying the set we also had a chance to show our appreciation for Richard Sudhalter while he was alive.

Posted on Sep 20, 2008, 2:03 AM

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Elizalde's recording of "Sugar" ....

.... was discussed in 2007 in connection with this being another example of "Copying Bix.". See

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1184870521

At the time, I uploaded the solos by Bix (two takes) and by Chelsea. Here is the link

http://bixography.com/sugarsoloswhitemanelizalde.ram (warning, 8.4 MB)

Paul, do you hear the echo here? But this an rm file and is highly compressed. Here is a link to Chelsea's solo as a wave file. This comes from the CD " 1928-1929: The Best of Fred Elizalde & His Anglo American Band."

Copy and paste bixography.com/sugarelizaldesolo.wav

Do you hear the echo?

Albert

Posted on Sep 17, 2008, 5:43 AM

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Echo

by Paul Bocciolone Strandberg

I own a copy of, and have listened to the CD " 1928-1929: The Best of Fred Elizalde & His Anglo American Band." Yes I hear the echo. Please compare "Sugar" with "Dixie" from the same session. Do you hear a difference?

Posted on Sep 18, 2008, 2:44 AM

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Echo

by Frank van Nus

I tried listening for an echo, but the only difference between Sugar and Dixie that I can discern is the fact that Quealey appears to be farther away from the mike on Sugar - no doubt because of the size of the formation. Consequently, on Sugar, his horn appears to pick up some of the acoustics of the room (as could be expected), but nothing which I'd describe as a strange echo.....

Frank

Posted on Sep 19, 2008, 1:31 AM

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" The Influence of Bix Beiderbecke" Set ....

.... is available at Worlds Records. See

http://www.worldsrecords.com/cgi-bin/storeR.cgi?specific=itemcode&phrase=63120&cart_id=09-17-08.22229

Also at ebay UK. See

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/_W0QQ_nkwZtheQ20influenceQ20ofQ20bixQ20beiderbeckeQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZR40QQ_mdoZ

Albert

Posted on Sep 17, 2008, 4:48 AM

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Venuti, Lang, and Goldkette

Joe Venuti and Eddie Lang go together as �two peas in a peapod� or a �a peach of a pair.� Their recording as the pair only, as the Blue Four or Five, and as members of numerous bands are fantastic. Joe carried the melody (with highly imaginative variations) while Eddie provided a dynamic rhythm. I strongly agree with Don Rayno�s description of these two jazz giants as a symbiotic team.
.

Venuti was a member of Jean Goldkette�s band in 1924 and was added to the band in 1926-1927 for recordings. Eddie Lang was never a member of the Goldkette band, but, like Joe, was added to the band for recordings.

Here are the recordings of Goldkette divided into two groups.

Recordings of Goldkette with Joe Venuti but without Eddie Lang.

Steve Brown not present

In the Evening
Where the Lazy Daisies Grow
My Sweetheart
It�s the Blues
Eieleen
Fox Trot Classique
Cover Me Up with the Sunshine of Virginia
I Didn�t Know
I Want to See My Tennessee
Remember
Play Me Slow
Honest and Truly
What�s the Use of Dreaming?

Steve Brown present

After I Say I�m Sorry
Dinah
Behind the Clouds
Drifting Apart
Sorry and Blue
Roses
Cover Me Up with Sunshine
Proud of A Baby Like You
I�m Looking Over a Four Leaf Clover
I�m Gonna Meet My Sweetie Now
Hoosier Sweetheart
My Pretty Girl

Recordings of Goldkette with both Venuti and Lang.

Idolizing
Hush-A-Bye
I�d Rather Be the Girl in Your Arms
Just One More Kiss
Sunday
Look at the World and Smile
A Lane in Spain
Sunny Disposih
Blue River
In My Merry Oldsmobile (waltz)
Blue River
Clementine

In the recordings where both Joe and Eddie are present, Joe�s violin solos are accompanied by Eddie on guitar. In the recordings without Eddie but with Steve Brown in the band, Joe�s solos are sometimes (a notable exception is �I�m Looking Over a Four Leaf Clover� where Joe is backed by pianist Paul Mertz) backed by the fantastic string bassist Steve Brown. And Joe and Steve also make a terrific pair. Listen to, for example,

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/goldkette/sweetie2.ram (a 16 and an 8-bar)

There is one recording where Joe�s violin solo is backed by both Eddie and Steve, and, to boot, we have three takes of that recording, �Look at the World and Smile.� Specially take 2 has a prominent Steve Brown during Joe�s solo.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/goldkette/lookatw1.ram

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/goldkette/lookat2o.ram

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/goldkette/lookatw3.ram

The red hot jazz archive also has a slowed version

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/goldkette/lookat2s.ram

Why a �slowed� version? I imagine is has to do with which is the proper rpm speed for the record to sound �right.�

Albert

Posted on Sep 10, 2008, 6:15 AM

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Hot Club de Jean

by Frank van Nus

My particular favourite is "A Lane in Spain", where Venuti's pizzicato violin is backed by Brown on bowed bass, Lang on guitar and Quicksell on banjo. Lang and Quicksell are wonderfully in sync here, creating a kind of Hot Club de France bounce. I think on "Look at the World and Smile" Quicksell joins this team as well, but I'm not sure.

Frank

Posted on Sep 11, 2008, 1:35 PM

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Indeed, a delightful combination of ....

.... several strings, and this was 1927, years before the initial recordings (Dec 1934) of the Quintette of the Hot Club of France with its distinct sound, also a combination of various strings, three guitars, violin and string bass.

There are two takes. Here is one of them (I don't know which)

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/VIC37738-2.ram

It is incorrectly labeled as 2.

Albert

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 11, 2008 2:30 PM

Posted on Sep 11, 2008, 2:18 PM

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Jazz-On-Line

Why does that link not work for me?

Jim

Posted on Sep 11, 2008, 10:54 PM

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Tell me more.

What message do you get when you try to connect? What version of realplayer are you using? What browser?

A few weeeks back, the site was down, and several people complained that they could not connect. But for a while now, I had no difficulties.

Albert

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 12, 2008 4:29 AM

Posted on Sep 12, 2008, 4:29 AM

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Re: Tell me more.

When I click on the link in your post nothing happens.There is no message. If I drag it to Now Playing playing in Real Player and click on it, still nothing.

I'm using Internet Explorer 7 and Real Player 10.5

Jim

Posted on Sep 12, 2008, 2:03 PM

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Try these approaches.

1. Right click on the link and choose "open in new window".

2. Right click on the link and choose "properties". When the window opens, copy and paste the address in a new window.

Albert

Posted on Sep 12, 2008, 2:30 PM

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Another idea

Go to http://www.jazz-on-line.com/pageinterrogation.php

and search for "A Lane In Spain." You should get one hit. Clcik on the link under "title, (year), listen with REAL format is free"

Something has to work!!!

Albert

Posted on Sep 12, 2008, 2:43 PM

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Re: Another idea

I tried this last idea and was redirected to a Real download site.
I installed version 11 and now I can get the "Spain" link.

TFAYD

Jim

Posted on Sep 12, 2008, 3:40 PM

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Perhaps my Experiences

by carl

I have Firefox but also lost the links thru Realplayer after I received a notice Firefox had a new upgrade, but getting that left me with a message that my plug-ins, whatever that is, to Realplayer were lost. My attempts to download Realplayer thru Google all ended with, "firefox has encountered a problem and needs to shut down." countless times till I gave up to wait for a visit from my computer buddy. But one day I went to look up something at the Jazz-On-Line site and noticed their notice that to listen one requires RealOne and for a PC, download here. I tried it and voila, it worked first time. Good luck.

Posted on Sep 12, 2008, 3:49 PM

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I was never able to get any of the links

by Bob Kelley

to play, after trying repeatedly with more than one of them.

If I find the time later, maybe I will trying using some of the instructions posted above ... but meanwhile if anyone finds a way to post direct links that work without downloading software, etc., that might help others.

Posted on Sep 15, 2008, 5:04 PM

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Would mp3 files be ....

.... more convenient than ram files? I imagine you have Microsoft Media Player. If not, what do you use to play music through your computer?

Albert

Posted on Sep 15, 2008, 5:39 PM

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Embarrassing

by Bob Kelley

to admit, but I don't know what I use to play files ... because I do this during down time at work, and I don't know how they set up these tubes.

I have successfully clicked on music downloads before ... maybe MP3s, not sure. I can see and hear Youtube videos and things like that.

I will bring in headphones tomorrow night (Tue) in case we have a different format by then and will make a point of trying it.

When I tried the links at the top of this string, I got this thing shaped sort of like a dog's bone on my screen, and at certain placements of the cursor, a note would appear saying "Now playing," but I never got any sound.

I probably shouldn't even try downloading software, but as I say, I CAN access music files through many links.

Posted on Sep 15, 2008, 6:03 PM

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Not at all!

You need not understand the subtle features of the thermodynamic cycles that take place in the cylinders of a car to be a good driver. Similarly, you need not understand the architecture of computers to be able to use them to fulfill your needs. Technological advances occur at such a rapid pace that most of us are left behind. I used to be a research chemist working at the frontiers of my field of specialization and keeeping up with advances in related subjects. I retired about six years ago. I still try to read the current chemical literature and attend chemistry research seminars at the university. I must confess that more than half of what I read/hear is beyond my understanding. Science and technology march on and leave us behind. But we can still be effective end-users.

Albert

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 5:22 AM

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I was

by Bob Kelley

never able to get the links to play after trying again ... I even copied the properties into a new "http" line at the top of internet explorer and hit execute and it STILL didn't work ... this could be computer limitations on my end that I can't correct.

Anyway, thanks for offering the links. I have that huge (eight CD?) Mosaic collection of Lang and Venuti with several Hanshaw tracks so it's not like I'm exactly hurting. But I don't remember for sure if I have ever heard them playing with a string bass.

They had such an amazing chemistry. Some of the best tracks are just the two of them. The band leaders must have realized this because at times when they were with a small ensemble, the rest of the band would stop playing in the middle of a number to let just the two of them take a few bars.

Posted on Sep 16, 2008, 9:37 PM

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The Road of Excess

by carl

I just discovered another valuable feature on RealPlayer. On the toolbar across the top, if you click play and follow down the popped up box at the bottom that reads 'continuous play', clicking that will cause Albert's links to repeat over and over automatically to one's heart's content, or till one knows it inside out and doesn't need to hear it anymore, or even better to have it playing in the background, wafting in and out of one's conscious awareness, thinking that maybe some insight or familiarity might just arrive the way a thought or an idea will just come from out of the blue and won't come at all if you make a point of sitting down and saying, 'I'm going to think up an idea'. Now I really hope Albert will present an isolated solo of the month especially since this repeat feature exists. What a glorious opportunity to wallow and absorb. Bix is the first time I've acquired a favourite musician that didn't stem from my teen or early twenty's years of natural aquisitions and I anyway, in these late days, though he sounds like he touches a natural part of all men, have to work at making him a familiar entity, and sitting there listening to Trumbauer or Whiteman over and over, now that I've already paid my dues, just ain't gonna happen.

Posted on Sep 19, 2008, 1:06 AM

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Sita Sings the Blues

A couple of years ago we had a short thread on this delightful animated film with a soundtrack by Annette Hanshaw.

See http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1145034082

The homepage for the site is http://www.sitasingstheblues.com/

This what Sita looks like

The story is described as follows.

�Sita is a goddess separated from her beloved Lord and husband Rama. Nina is an animator whose husband moves to India, then dumps her by email. Three hilarious shadow puppets narrate both ancient tragedy and modern comedy in this beautifully animated interpretation of the Indian epic Ramayana. Set to the 1920's jazz vocals of Annette Hanshaw, Sita Sings the Blues earns its tagline as "The Greatest Break-Up Story Ever Told."

Two years ago, only a few episodes were available. Now the film has been completed and earned an award at the 2008 Berlin International Film Festival.

The film was directed, written, produced, designed and animated by Nina Paley.

In the Annette Hanshaw yahoo group, Nina asked if someone could upload a page with links to mp3 files of the 11 Annette recordings used in the film.

I volunteered and here is the page.

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/Annette/SitaSoundTrack.html

Great songs and great interpretations by Annette. And first-class musicians in the various accompanying bands: Here are the ones with connections to Bix: Adrian Rollini, Joe Venuti. Eddie Lang, Vic Berton, Rube Bloom, Irving Brodsky, Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey, Arthur Schutt, Stan King, Joe Tarto.

Albert

Posted on Sep 9, 2008, 9:08 AM

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Some video clips...

by Terry Porritt

The original website had some delightful short work-in-progress videos which (seem to) have been dropped from the current site. There is a trailer, but no Annette Hanshaw.

All is not lost though, a little Googling brought up this site for those who have not previously seen Nina Paleys' work:
http://clusterfunction.com/video/ninapaleydotcom/Sitayana/index.html

Posted on Sep 9, 2008, 8:32 PM

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The current issue of the Mississppi Rag ....

.... includes part II of Tom Moreland's article, "Hawley Ades: More Musical Memories from the 1920s-30s."

http://www.mississippirag.com/ragonline_sept08/features_sept_hawley.html

There is a bit about Paul Whiteman.

"Several of Hawley's give-away arrangements were done for Paul Whiteman. Whiteman liked them and commissioned Hawley to do a number of special arrangements strictly for his orchestra. Hawley did about eight, one of which was recorded with a vocal by Irene Taylor, "Willow Weep For Me" (1932). Hawley remembered attending the rehearsal of "Willow Weep For Me." As assistant conductor, Matty Malneck took the band through the arrangement, Whiteman turned to Hawley and said: "Nice arrangement, kid, but isn't $75 a little high? I only have to pay Fud Livingston $50!" Fud Livingston, a well-known reedman, indeed made numerous arrangements for Whiteman from 1930 through 1933.

Paul Whiteman's band was an early influence on Hawley Ades, so it was quite a thrill for Ades when he was hired to do some arrangements for him.

Hawley sat in for a set with Whiteman's band at one rehearsal and had a vivid memory of the "sense of absolute rhythmic security" -- "mechanical perfection" -- projected by the rhythm section of Mike Pingitore on banjo and a drummer and bass player whose names Hawley did not recall (possibly Herb Quigley and Art Miller). "They needed a piano player like a hole in the head. I never experienced anything like it before it or since."

Obviously, Hawley's association with Whiteman is post-Bix. Hawley is not mentioned in Vol 1 of Whiteman's biography by Don Rayno. Vol 1 covers 1890-1930.

Albert

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 12:30 PM

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Who else...

by Klaus H

did he work for/with?

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 3:57 PM

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It is instructive to read both parts of ....

.... Tom Moreland's article.

For part I, go to http://www.mississippirag.com/ragonline_august08/features_aug_hawley.html

Part II is in http://www.mississippirag.com/ragonline_sept08/features_sept_hawley.html

In part I, Bix is mentioned prominently.

Albert

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 4:27 PM

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Re: It is instructive to read both parts of ....

by Klaus H

Thank you

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 5:10 PM

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NORK influence in England

I have some additional information regarding the CD set"THE INFLUENCE OF BIX BEIDERBECKE�. (I enjoy the set immensely!)
I think that New Orleans Rhythm Kings should be mentioned in connection with Tiger Rag (by Original Capitol Orch.) because the clarinet part (mostly), the clarinet solo and the last cornet ensemble including the break is a perfect transcription of the first mentioned groups version of the tune. I think that it is a personal and outstanding version by NORK that doesn�t have much to do with ODJB and Bix.
I�m not completely sure about the routines back in the early twenties but I guess that somebody at Melrose Music or a similar organization quickly transcibed the music (improvisations) from recordings and put it into stock arrangements because they made more money on stocks than on records. Same thing happened with NORK�s version of �Milenberg Joys�. I have that arrangement and many contemporary bands played it including the Roppolo solo. I have not seen a stock of Tiger rag but I have recently transcibed the whole record for my own use. It could of course be possible that Original Capitol Orch learned it from the record but I doubt it. I have also seen and played a stockarrangement of Copenhagen with Bix (short) solo and the clarinet solo transcribed. Now if sombody tells me that NORK was playing transcription of somebody elses music I would be very surprised.
Regarding the Swedish trumpet player Ragge L�th on �Minns Du?� I think that I was responsible of first putting attention to him in this forum and thereby also in a way responsible for him bypassing a more prolific Swedish Bix epigon by the name of G�sta �Smyget� Redlig.
But Ragge L�th is magnificent in his number and he was in turn responsible for inspiring a famous musician. Once, in 1933 he brought his little nephew along to a concert. On stage in Stockholm was Louis Armstrong and it was then that the boy made up his mind to become a trumpet player himself. His name was Rolf Ericson and he made it all the way to Duke Ellingtons orchestra!
/Paul

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 3:39 PM

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Connection Between Bix and the Original Capitol Orchestra

On Jul 6, 1921 Bix became a (short-lived, he lasted about 10 days) member of Doc Wrixon's band aboard the steamship "Capitol." Three of the members of the 1923-1924 "Original Capitol Orchestra" [who recorded the version of "Tiger Rag" discussed in detail by Paul in the previous posting] - Sheppard/Shepherd, Webb, and Sell/Sells- were also members of the 1921 Doc Wrixon Band. It is noteworthy that Doc Wrixon's band played in the Col Ballroom, a place that Bix often visited. Take a look at this photo.

One of the fascinating aspects found in several versions of "Tiger Rag" is that the clarinet breaks played originally by Larry Shields in the ODJB versions of the tune appear in several subsequent versions. Go to the redhotjazz archive, search under "Tiger Rag" and click on the resulting links. Just to name a few bands that have been mentioned here, the breaks are copied, almost note for note, in the versions by NORK, the Original Capitol. the Wolverines, etc. Here are the breaks I am talking about taken from the 1919 version by the ODJB in London in 1919. (the same are found in the 1917 and 1918 versions).

http://bixography.com/tigerODJBclarbreaks.ram

Albert

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 7:09 AM

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Bix and Wynton

Wynton Marsalis's last book is titled "Moving to Higher Ground: How Jazz Can Change Your Life."

# Publisher: Random House Publishing Group

# Pub. Date: September 2008

You will see that Geoffrey C. Ward, is a collaborator. I remind you that Geoff Ward was also the collaborator of Ken Burns for the PBS jazz program.

Wynton Marsalis and his book are the focus of an NPR program, "Talk of the Nation," see and hear in

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94198246

A long excerpt of the book is provided in the page cited above. Bix is mentioned in the excerpt.

"I went through my teen years playing all kinds of music. But jazz became my real love. I grew up with it and wanted to be able to play it. This was the 1970s, when most of what we thought of as jazz was some funk tunes with horns playing the melody. But my exposure to real jazz musicians at an early age helped me realize that this music had a different function from the pop music we loved and played. The most popular music of my youth thrilled people with illusion, sentimentality, and showmanship. Music was just one of the tools we employed to create excitement. The jazzman's objective, however, was solely musical: Through his improvisation, he wanted to take people deep into his actual feelings and his world.

Ironically, I was in the same position Bix Beiderbecke found himself in when he first heard jazz music as a teenager in Davenport, Iowa, in 1917. Most of the people around him thought jazz was some kind of hokum, a gimmicky fad that�to make matters worse�was created by black people who weren't worth anything, anyway. But through intense listening, Bix could hear past all that ignorance and racism and learn to hear the differences among black groups, white hokum groups, and white groups like the New Orleans Rhythm Kings, who could really play. He could recognize artistic objectives, too, and set out to become an artist himself, even though pursuing those objectives would drive him farther and farther away from the world in which he grew up.

Like Beiderbecke, I wanted to figure out what separated jazz from what we were being told was jazz."

Interesting -isn't it?- that Marsalis mentions the NORK but not the ODJB.

Albert

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 11:42 AM

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Why?

I have seen no reaction to the interview released by Luigi Martini to Dominick James La Rocca.Whatever you like O.D.J.B. or not,La Rocca revealed a strong racist spirit,for the fact that he had not be recognized as the Jazz Inventor.
It is very interesting hearing the other "inventor" of jazz,Jelly Roll Morton,another victim of the racist critics (was he too white? too "creole" ?)
Do not forget that the word "creole" was at the beginning referred to the culture,Spanish or French,of people living in Colonies,keeping even the language foreign to the majority of local population.
I would like to see the forumites wake up,and revert to discussion about the MUSI of Bix,paying more attention to the opinions of Bix himself:he loved O.D.J.B..Also,somebody (Albert explained why) was interested to diminish Bix,because of his Geman origin.So on non existing fundament,we were teached that Bix was a man shabby dressed,almost sneaky,while ALL THE PICTURES show a well dressed,well shaved,well to do gentleman,even if we know his perpetual drunkness.
Sorry for keeping so much of your tim,but,for me BIX IS ALIVE
Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 7:25 AM

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Re: Why?

by Klaus H

Just because Bix "loved" ODJB doesn't make them any better than they were. Armstrong "loved" Guy Lombardo, but that didn't make Lombardo one bit more credible, or elevate his outfit to the Armstrong level.

Rex Stewart, for one, mentions how inept ODJB were, and that they were the subject of laughter among most musicians.

LaRocca is not being denied credit for "inventing" jazz because he was racist. He is denied credit for the invention because he didn't invent it.

By that logic, Pat Boone invented Little Richards songs.

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 8:51 AM

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But...

I don't deny a bit of what either of you have said, but, if the ODJB had not recorded when it did, what would have happened, and who would have filled that void? Borbee's Jass Orchestra? Wilbur Sweatman or other ragtime barn-dance type bands?

It is always easy to deride those who came first, whether in fact, or in this case, aurally. However, I think it speaks volumes to Bix's or Armstrong's taste that they found merit in what might not have been so "with it." Surely, genius (not to bring up a past thread) can appreciate more than just the merely competent or gifted.

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 10:50 AM

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Armstrong and ODJB

"The first jazz record I heard was Tiger Rag of the ODJB.
Was it not for the ODJB records (one million copies in their first year),the ragtime musicians jobless after Storyville had been closed,would not have found an answer to their problem:"and now what we do? Reply:Let us play the music of success,jazz" Read the story of the ODJB and hear their records on an appropriate Victrola large machine and you will understand.(This is not really for you,but for the other forumite that quote Rex Stewart..Thanks for help.Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 11:35 AM

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Rex Stewart's remarks

by Nick Dellow

Please could you provide the specific source for Rex Stewart's remarks that the ODJB were "inept" and "were the subject of laughter among most musicians". I'd be interested to know. Many thanks.

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 11:48 AM

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Re: Rex Stewart's remarks

by Klaus H

"I remember the fellows around the Clef Club laughing about the efforts of white musicians of that era. The Original Dixieland Band had soaked everything that they knew musically from the Negroes in New Orleans, and still it was amusing to us when they soloed in comparison with their colored counterparts."

Rex Stewart, "Boy Meets Horn", pg. 49

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 10:37 PM

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Laughing

Well,this is a proof of the scarce culture and racism of Rex Stewart.If you like laughing, hear the records of W.C. Handy and his band (all African American) or any of the Negro pioneers, and hear the records of the ODJB; of course they were not the Clarence Williams Blue Five with Armstrong and Bechet,BUT THEY WERE EIGHT YEARS IN ADVANCE. Then consider the records of Phil Napoleon, Mole, Lytell, Signorelli, Durante,etc. You have redhotjazz.com, it is also cheaper. BUT DO NOT DESPISE YOUR RACE.
Thanks,Veniero Molari

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 5, 2008 6:12 AM

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 3:48 AM

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True...

Within the time frame of the ODJB's recordings, 1917-23, I can't think of any black band, except MAYBE Reese in 1919 who were anywhere near their equal. King Oliver would of course come at the end of that time frame, and is a separate issue entirely. So, if there were these great black bands out there, they are undocumented, which for our purposes makes it all a moot point as though they had never existed. We have only hearsay: the Emmett Hardy syndrome.

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 8:32 AM

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Re: Laughing

by Klaus H

You seem rather confused - almost as confused as your response.

I don't despise any race; my own or others. Rex Stewart did not despise his race; although the country he grew up and lived in despised his, and expressed it by making laws to maintain a subclass of Americans.

In fact, it was the institutional despising of the race that made it so that there is no recorded legacy. You think that the reputation of Buddy Bolden is untrue? For that matter, the recorded legacy of Bix is scarcely enough to justify the high praise of EVERYONE who heard him in real life.

Who, by the way, did the ODJB listen to and imitate? John Philip Sousa?

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 9:04 AM

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Laughing

Well ODJB did not copy anybody,AS THEY INVENTED the JASS music.
I am not confused,and I consider that if Stewart despised ODJB it was because he was a racist.The fact that a non WASP individual suffered by the limits imposed by WASP people does not justify a resentment against white artists,in a conditn in between a WASP and a NEGRO.La Rocca Italian,Sbarbaro Italian,Signorelli Italian,Ragas French,all stupid Catholic for the WASP.,and discovered nonetheless by a Jew singer (Al Jolson,if you did not know)Please check the interview released by La Rocca:he quotes with precision the recordings of the colored bands that played ragtime,giving even the Label and number of every record.But,as I already told,hear the records of W.C.Handy...
You can disagree,but about confusion...Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 11:09 AM

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Re: Laughing

by Klaus H

"Well ODJB did not copy anybody,AS THEY INVENTED the JASS music."

You are alone in believing this.

"Nick LaRocca did much to help popularize jazz during the band's existence although he hurt his own cause decades later by claiming to have been one of jazz's main originators."

"The first jazz group to ever record, Original Dixieland Jazz Band made history in 1917. They were not the first group to ever play jazz (Buddy Bolden had preceded them by 22 years!), nor was this White quintet necessarily the best band of the time, but during 1917-1923 (particularly in their earliest years) they did a great deal to popularize jazz. The musicians learned about jazz from their fellow New Orleans players (including King Oliver) but happened to get their big break first."

"By 1923 when many of the first Black jazz giants finally were recorded, ODJB was thought of as a historical band and due to internal dissension they soon broke up."

"Although the cornetist's arrogant claims that ODJB had invented jazz are exaggerated and tinged with racism, Original Dixieland Jazz Band did make a strong contribution to early jazz"

Tinged with racism - you understand that phrase?

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 11:49 AM

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Freddie Keppard

If I'm not mistaken, a band with which Freddie Keppard played was offered the opportunity to record in 1916. Correct me further, but was not one of the reasons that they did not that Keppard feared that others would copy him? Where is the racism in that?

This whole discussion would be a moot point if that organization had recorded first, and not the ODJB. As it is, that shadow that the ODJB cast is more tangible to us than whoever came before because all else is hearsay.

I don't believe that the ODJB or La Rocca invented Jazz, but that was a nice point about the non-WASP musicians. For a group of socially marginalized fellows, they did pretty well when many of their countrymen were only just gaining social acceptance.

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 1:17 PM

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Re: Freddie Keppard

by Klaus H

You are correct in regard to Keppard.

I didn't follow the non-WASP argument closely because it was buried among that other racist nastiness.

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 1:26 PM

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Thank You

I just wanted to make that point about Keppard. I'm certainly not saying Bolden or any of the other pre-recording era musicians were not fabulous, it's just that we don't know what they sounded like, and yes, it is even more unfortunate because of skin color.

I rather wish that Keppard had not been so guarded about himself. Perhaps it would all be different.

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 3:20 PM

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racism

The fact that you do not follow the WASP argument demonstrate that unfortunately you do not see who is racist:evidently you do not know the meaning
of the WASP acronym : WHITE ANGLO-SAXON PROTESTANT.In other words whoever was not a WASP was not a respectable AMERICAN.While the integration of other groups succeeded earlier,for African Americans this went later.So we can find somebody belonging to this group that hosts rancorous sentiments against all the white people.
For instance many African Americans hate the banjo as it was featured in the minstrels shows,were Negroes were ridiculized.You quote Buddy Bolden,but who knows how he played?We know only that he was the LOUDEST horn blower,and a famous character,but Jelly Roll (born 1890)remambers Buddy Bolden for what he SAID...Please consider that the white invention of jazz is not diminishing the value of Armstrong(who was not laughing when he said that the first jazz record that he heard was ODJB's Tiger Rag),Dodds,Ladnier,Bechet:they are great independently of their race:the art comes out of their personal mind,not from their belonging to a race.So I am not a racist,,but some African American yes.(you quote Stewart)Some person has not yet understood that Hugues Panassiev,Russian refugee had at his disposal only a bunch of records to issue his racist anti-Whites ideas of jazz.Read a little,age a little bit,and your attitude against the white musicians will be more objective.Sorry for having been so long,but I taught important fight for the truth against prejudices.Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 4:08 PM

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O.D.J.B and W.A.S.P.

I don't know about Shields, Edwards and Ragas, but LaRocca and Sbarbaro were definitely Italian, on the swarthy side, and obviously Catholic. The other three were doubtless of scrurrilous foreign extraction. At the height of their fame, these five still would have entered a W.A.S.P. country club through the back entrance, same as Colored musicians.

-Brad Kay

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 6:23 PM

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Re: racism

by Klaus H

I do not know the meaning of the WASP acronym? I "unfortunately do not see who is racist"? I think it is very obvious who is racist.

You should not presume, perhaps, that everyone is as dim-witted as the people you apparently associate with. By the way, "ghetto" is a word of Italian origin, isn't it?

In any case, none of this changes the fact that Nick LaRocca did NOT invent jazz, which was the point of this discussion, and no amount of irrelevance can make it so.

Have a nice day!

Posted on Sep 5, 2008, 7:28 PM

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Re: racism (Warning: may take a long time to download)

by Nick Dellow

I certainly don't believe that the ODJB invented jazz, much though I enjoy their records! The ODJB's music, to my mind, distilled various musical elements - the Blues, ragtime, hints of Italian and Spanish street music, the Quadrilles known to the local Creoles as kwadrils, etc. etc. - into something that was quite possibly "new" without necessarily being totally original, if that isn't an oxymoron! These various elements were welded to the AABA popular song format (one might add the Jewish song tradition here!), and almost always played with gusto and at a cracking pace (though their recordings are invariably played too fast - most of the ODJB Victors should be played at around 74 rpm). Leaving aside any claims to having "invented" jazz, the ODJB were certainly important purveyors of the new music, and certainly helped to establish the distinctive "Dixieland" line-up, with the violin (so popular as a lead instrument in both white and black bands) ousted as a lead instrument, replaced by the cornet-clarinet-trombone front line.

One thing is for sure - we know what the ODJB sounded like, and they sounded like nothing that had been recorded before them, by black or white groups. Conversely, we will never know what Buddy Bolden sounded like until that cylinder turns up! The scant recollections of those who heard Bolden would indicate that the music he played was not "jazz" as we perceive early jazz to be (and what exactly IS jazz anyway?!). It doubtless had strong elements of the Blues tradition, and it must surely have used syncopation, but anything beyond that becomes supposition. It should be noted that in their repertoire, Bolden and his men almost certainly often played other forms of popular music that were far removed from the world of jazz. And as far as we know, the word "jazz" or "jass" or "jas" had yet to be coined to describe a new form of popular music. If the word existed in the vernacular sense in Bolden's time, its use meant something quite different! Incidentally, does anyone know of an earlier example of the use of the word "Blues" (to describe a popular music style) than the publication in 1912 of Hart Wand's "Dallas Blues"?

I don't wish to become embroiled in arguments over race issues or references to a man's skin colour to determine his validity as a jazz musician, but the attached articles clearly demonstrate that this vexed black and white question has been argued over for years. "To Wit Too White" and "Two Whites don't make a Black" appeared in a small magazine published just after WWII and called, appropriately enough, "Black and White", and "The Bolden Legend" (by Brian Rust) appeared in the September/October 1984 edition of "Sounds Vintage". Incidentally, both magazines were published in the UK. They may help to illuminate the matter, or possibly (probably) cause the chasm to widen appreciably!

Nick

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 6, 2008 10:31 AM

Posted on Sep 6, 2008, 10:30 AM

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Re: racism (Warning: may take a long time to download)

by Klaus H

Thank you

Posted on Sep 6, 2008, 11:14 AM

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Myths and Political Correctness

When documented evidence is absent and all we have about an event or an individual is a set of recollections from witnesses, we are on fertile grounds for the fabrication of myths. This is what happened in the case of Buddy Bolden. No one knows how he really sounded, what style of music he actually played.

Nevertheless, the politically correct crowd has enshrined Bolden as a jazz musician, perhaps the first jazz musician. From

http://www.pbs.org/jazz/biography/artist_id_bolden_buddy.htm

�NPR's Morning Edition: Buddy Bolden
Tom Vitale reports on the legend of coronetist [sic] Buddy Bolden, one of the earliest jazz musicians.�

Without any documentation, calling Buddy Bolden a jazz musician is sheer speculation.

Brian Rust does a good job of dispelling the myth.

A good place to listen to recordings from 1917 is

http://www.redhotjazz.com/jazz1917.html

With a few exceptions, notably the ODJB, not much jazz.

I vigorously disagree with the comments of Alan Woodcock. In particular, I object violently to his use of the word �us� in the sentence, �I suggest that negro jazz gives us emotional satisfaction not to be found in white jazz or in classical music and therefore has a strong raison d�etre as a distinct art form that white jazz cannot share.

Speak for yourself, Woodcock! Who is �us�? I absolutely am not one of �us.� The question of �emotional satisfaction� is a profoundly individual experience. If Woodcock experiences an �emotional satisfaction� when listening to negro jazz which he does not experience when listening to white jazz or classical music, that�s fine with me. But, it is irrational and outrageous for him to assume that I am one of �us� and feels the same as he does.

Another point I object to is Woodcock�s assertion about �complexity and variety� being found in recordings by negro musicians, but rarely in those by white musicians. Again, this guy makes these sweeping statements as if they were objective and based on factual evidence. They are his subjective analyses, and wrong to boot. What about the complexity and variety in several of Bix�s recordings, just to cite one white musician close to my heart? This guy was politically correct before the phrase became fashionable.

Albert

PS Here is what seems to me to be an objective account of what is known accurately about Buddy Bolden.

From Oxford Music Online.

�Bolden, Buddy [Charles Joseph]
(b New Orleans, 6 Sept 1877; d Jackson, LA, 4 Nov 1931). American blues and ragtime cornettist and bandleader. The first of the New Orleans cornet �kings�, he was highly regarded by contemporary fellow black musicians in the city, who in their reminiscences embroidered his life with a great many legends and spurious anecdotes. He came relatively late to music, adopting the cornet around 1894 after completing his schooling, and emerged not from the brass marching-band tradition but rather from the string bands which played for private dances and parties. By 1895, while working as a plasterer, he was leading his own semi-professional group, and by 1901, when his name first appears in city directories as a professional musician, his group had stabilized into a six-piece unit with cornet, clarinet, valve trombone, guitar, double bass and drums. Bolden�s rise to fame coincided with the emergence of a black pleasure district � Black Storyville � at South Rampart and Perdido streets, where he played in the dives and tonks (but not the brothels). His fame was at its peak in 1905, when his group performed regularly in the city�s dance halls and parks, and undertook excursions to outlying towns. In the following year Bolden showed distinct signs of violent mental derangement, and his band rapidly disintegrated. In 1907, in a state of hopeless indigence and alcoholism, he was admitted to a mental institution in Jackson, where he spent his remaining years. His life formed the basis of M. Ondaatje�s novel Coming through Slaughter (New York, 1976).
Contemporary musicians universally praised the power of Bolden�s tone, his rhythmic drive and the emotional content of his slow blues playing. He reportedly found ingenious ways of ornamenting existing melodies, but recent research has cast doubt on his reputation as the first jazz musician.
Bibliography
M. Berger: �Early New Orleans Jazz Bands�, Jazz Record (1944), April, 6
D. Barker: �A Memory of King Bolden�, Evergreen Review, no.37 (1965), 66�74
D.M. Marquis: Finding Buddy Bolden, First Man of Jazz: the Journal of a Search (Coshen, IN, 1978)
D.M. Marquis: In Search of Buddy Bolden, First Man of Jazz (Baton Rouge, LA, 1978)
J.L. Collier: Jazz: the American Theme Song (New York, 1993), 198�9
J. Bradford Robinson�

Forum Owner

Posted on Sep 6, 2008, 3:09 PM

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Myths and Brian Rust

I guess now we can better understand the furor that the late Richard M. Sudhalter's great book "Lost Chords: White Musicians and Their Contribution to Jazz 1915-1945" caused when it was published. Some of the critics never got beyond the title let alone read the book, which was very thoughtfully presented and painstakingly researched, and did no disservice to any musician, black or white.
I totally respect Brian Rust as a superb discographer and writer. The problem I had with his article was the way he blew off Dizzy Gillespie and the other "bop boys". Whew! I don't think he would say that today given the high regard most music lovers have for the Gillespie-Charlie Parker oeuvre; ditto Chet Baker-Gerry Mulligan; and is there anyone who hates "Four Brothers" by Woody Herman? I could go on. Sure, a lot of bebop is hard to listen to, but come on, Brian! Some of those corny songs and vocalists from the '20's and '30's were pretty hard to take, too! "I'd Rather Be The Girl in Your Arms Than the Girl in Your Dreams".
I like to keep it simple: there is only good music and bad music.

Posted on Sep 29, 2008, 1:22 PM

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racism.

Ghetto is an Italian name, but time passed since, with the ominous exception of Mussolini, who suffered plagiarysm from Hitler,leader of Workers Socialist Party of German Nation (Red flag). Italians never traded in slaves, like Britons, Dutchs or Americans. As for myself,I enjoy the friendship of many Jews, some from the time of the nazist occupation, and I spent wonderful moments with Sidney Bechet, Alvin Alcorn, Wellman Braud, Edmund Hall, Trummy Young, Roy Eldridge, Benny Carter, and I corresponded with Johnny St.Cyr,my banjo idol.

This is not the point: The first record by the ODJB was recorded by Columbia, BUT NOT ISSUED. After less than two monts Victor recorded ODJB and the record had a terrific success. Realising their mistake, Columbia issued their record and sent to New Orleans their art director,to find an appropriate competitor in the new music. After ONE MONTH on the expenses, he sent a famous telegram: "Sorry to inform that no other jazz band exist in New Orleans."

And Louis Armstrong declared that the first jazz record he heard was Tiger Rag of the ODJB. The opinion of Stewart is irrelevant, as it is the statement of who invented JAZZ: important is what happened since; a wonderful music.

I started to receive threatening e-mails from various cowards, the usual ones banned from the Forum,who believe in their right to conceal their identity. Alas, here in Italy a Socialist mob had a law passed suppressing the asylums and the lunatics.
Veniero Molari,Oec Dr.

This message has been edited by ahaim on Sep 6, 2008 2:17 PM

Posted on Sep 6, 2008, 2:04 PM

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The Italian slave trade

by Nick Dellow

Italians never traded in slaves!? Is their history really so clean in this respect?

From http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/REN/BACK.HTM

"The Italian Renaissance was also the period that Europeans rediscovered slavery. The market in human slave labour in southern Europe began as early as the 12th century. Initially the Spaniards were the key trafficers in human life, but as the Italian city-states grew, their demand for slaves also grew and they became one of the largest consumers of human slaves....Most slaves sold in Italy were Muslims from Spain, North Africa, Crete, the Balkans, and the Ottoman Empire."

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 4:51 AM

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humble apologies.

Utmost unfortunately you were right.Tuscany,the Kingdom of Naples,Malta,were raping slaves in Muslim countries.Officially it was for retaliation of Turkish raids on our coasts,;also Venice did,but in this case really transforming prisoners in slaves to retaliate against the same practice by Turkish.Piedmont,Lombardy,Emily and the State of Church never had a single case.
I apologize for not checking before,but in any case the phenomenon never had the dimension of the American one before the Lincoln Emancipation Act.
Thank you for opening my eyes.Veniero Molari

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 11:46 AM

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Bix and Louis

The discussion about Bix in Rifftides

http://www.artsjournal.com/rifftides/

has now become a discussion of Bix and Louis. See

http://www.jazzwax.com/2008/09/bix-v-pops-and.html

Albert

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 10:58 AM

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So Many Responses For Such a Goofy Article

by carl

"Overrated", such a strong opening statement and then he follows it up with Bix wasn't quite the shiny celebrity he had believed in his youth and that's his reason. Good one buddy. But look at all the cats jumping out of the woodwork in praise of Bix. Sergio his best cutting comment yet, Uncle Hans with his usual pointed clarity, even Uncle Albert getting into the act. Why couldn't they have been done here at the home of the Bix? Albert should flip his wig and tell Rifftides no Bix talk unless he says so, just like the mobster days, and swipe all the comments and stick em here. Don't bring that article though. What a joke.

It took me a good week to get back Realplayer after the last Firefox upgrade and I see all the solos Albert put up have petered out and flipped over cept for that Gott thing. I thought that was old Hans responding to it and I was thinking I wish him and Uncle Albert could kiss and make up and start doing some Bix talk. There ain't that many of you Bix scholars out there and it ain't righteous to just read and don't say nothing. All you'll have left is me and old Uncle Hal and that ain't pretty. Even Albert will stay away then. I see both sides about the Gott comparison to Waiting, the figures are kinda similar, kinda nursery rhyme like, but there's nobody inside the Gott. I gather Bix is a question mark on Waiting. It's a different kind of wounded to Cradle and Pleasure and South. It's more hurried and tense, and the big tear just isn't but still it ends reaching out in friendship, but where's that inner peace despite failing powers that Cradle and Pleasure come out of. Bix is even thinking about sex when he's supposed to be doing his Deep Down South solo. Maybe that was one of those Duke double entendres.

I wish I had of kept my big mouth shut on that Armand Hug transcription. Of all that group that Albert had put up, I thought that Benny Goodman the most fascinating and would have loved to hear it by a cornet. I guess Andy or nobody wished to risk the impending insult, though why would anybody listen to me I can't imagine, but that Hug still sounds fourtyish to me and I had the thought I can't lose, that the Bix rip was intended as a climax to the solo. Monty Python 'nudge, nudge, there's your Bix there, see, see".

I remember way back Albert said he likes to hear his Bix in context with the rest of the record and I'm very pleased he'll now post an isolated solo for a laboratory inspection. I'd certainly welcome a 'the solo of the month' series. I was playing Sorry from the Rifftides link over and over and I never felt like no Louis, but I got to wishing to hear Joe Smith on Stampede, not that the Bix reminded me directly or nothing, but if I can tear myself away from Jack Bruce here, that's what I'll do.

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 1:27 AM

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Re: So Many Responses For Such a Goofy Article

by jazzlover

Only critics talk about one musician versus another. Musicians never do. Every musician has something to say, in his own way. Music is not a competition.

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 4:30 AM

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I asked you before, and I ask you again.

Send an email to ahaim@bixography.com
What is the matter? No manners, no courage?

Albert Haim
Forum Owner

PS What about the famous and rather common "Battles of the Bands"? And the "Cutting Contests"? Weren't these competitions? And not for the critics, but for the fans.

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 5:15 AM

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Harry James and Bix

According to the imdb website for the film "Young Man With A Horn,", Harry James played trumpet while Kirk Douglas went through the motions. See information about the soundtrack in

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043153/soundtrack
Bix is mentioned in Peter J. Levinson's biography of Harry James, "Trumpet Blues - The Life of Harry James," Oxford University Press, 1999. Here are the relevant parts.

Harry James as a child.

Comments about Harry James by Lalo Schiffrin and Harry James in "Young Man With A Horn."

It would have been interesting to hear Harry James in 1929 playing with the Vic Insirilo's group. It seems reasonable that Harry James may have sounded like Bix in 1929: many trumpet players were under the spell of Bix at that time. Lalo Schiffrin's comments, coming from a first-class musician who has a good understanding of Bix's music, are fascinating. Is anyone familiar with "The Truth," composed by Harry James and Matty Malneck for the "Double Dixies Album"?

Albert

This message has been edited by ahaim on Aug 31, 2008 5:35 AM

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 2:31 PM

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Re: Harry James and Bix

by hal smith

nail doris? harry must have had real class

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 10:54 PM

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Re: Harry James and Bix

by Bob Delovarre

This is interesting - did James ever directly cite Bix as an influence?

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 10:02 AM

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Re: Harry James and Bix

Harry did a lovely recording of "In a Mist" for Columbia.

Dave

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 11:31 AM

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Matlock or Malneck?

If they are the same person, please forgive my ignorance.
Sergio

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 11:19 AM

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Not the same person.

Matty Malneck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matty_Malneck

Matty Matlock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matty_Matlock

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 11:32 AM

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I asked because...

...you said "Is anyone familiar with "The Truth," composed by Harry James and Matty Malneck for the "Double Dixies Album"? The article reads "Matlock".
Sergio

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:31 PM

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The article is correct.

I wrote the wrong name.

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:52 PM

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"Young Horne With A Man" is the title of a supposedluy....

.... humorous program (featuring " "Bix Spiderthrust") broadcast on BBC 2 on May 7, 1967. It was part of the series "Round the Horne" (named after the star of the show Kenneth Horne) which ran from 1965 to 1968.

Has anyone seen this? Supposedly there was music in the program.

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 12:11 PM

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Bix Spiderthrust

by Nick Dellow

"Round The Horne" was a Radio Show, not a TV Show. It was initially broadcast on the BBC Light Programme, which was a BBC radio station that broadcast light entertainment and music from 1945 until 1967. When BBC radio was subsequently rearranged in September 1967, Round The Horne was broadcast on the newly established BBC Radio 2.

I have heard "Young Horne With A Man" (a few years ago now), and while I still often find "Round The Horne" sketches funny, this particular one isn't a classic as such. However, Kenneth Williams, who played the part of Bix Spiderthrust, did find it very funny, unusual for someone who more often than not derided his own comedy efforts (often blaming poor scripts though!). In his diary entry for Saturday 4th November 1967, he writes: I listened to 'R.T.H.' on the radio. It was really very funny - me doing a send-up of a Southern American jazz trumpeter - it was a v. good voice I used: the whole programme was full of wit and invention and infectious humour."

"The Kenneth Williams Diaries", first published in 1993 and edited by Russell Davies (who occasionally posts to this forum!)

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 2:00 PM

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Just to confirm...

by Russell Davies

What Nick says is true --- I did edit the Diaries (and Letters) of the British comedy actor Kenneth Williams. The "Round The Horne" title of the radio series came from the its central figure, Kenneth Horne, an apparently serious straight-man/narrator (and a successful businessman in "real" life), around whom the various comedians on the show did their merry dance. But I suspect that Horne was the Bix fan in the line-up. He was not a trumpet/cornet player, but did have private ambitions to play saxophone, as he revealed (if my memory serves) on the British edition of "This Is Your Life" devoted to him. He was quite a famous figure in the UK, but I don't think anybody had known before that moment that he had musical ambitions. As I recall from the broadcast, his ability on sax was more or less equivalent to Bill Clinton's.
R.D.

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 7:59 AM

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Kenneth Horne, saxophonist!

by Nick Dellow

Kenneth Horne learnt to play the sax while at Cambridge University in the 1920s, and in about 1931, while working for Triplex Safety Glass, he joined a West Midlands based semi-pro band named �Bo Aylward and His Rascals�.

In �Solo For Horne�, the biography of Kenneth Horne, author Norman Hackforth (who was Noel Coward�s pianist throughout the Second World War) states: �Later, resplendent in faultless tails, Ken fronted the band with his saxophone, trying (as he said) �to pretend I was an expert, without destroying the illusion by actually blowing!��.He always had a passionate attachment to his saxophone, which continued all through his life. He kept it wrapped in a pair of long red-flannel drawers, with which he lovingly polished it.�

Incidentally, Fred Elizalde�s name crops up in this biography. Hackforth recalled Elizalde�s prodigious skills: �Elizalde was one of the most sensationally brilliant jazz pianists I ever heard. I had the good fortune to meet him in 1927, and to stand at the side of the keyboard while he played. When I went home in the early hours of the morning I almost decided to give up piano playing for evermore�.

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 1:52 AM

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It can be heard here....

I have uploaded "Young Horne With a Man" to box.net from a Round The Horne CD which is available along with other older British radio programs from the otrcat website:

http://www.box.net/shared/d5gzfzr8yf

http://www.otrcat.com/british-c-103.html

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 1:53 AM

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Thanks very much, Terry, .....

.... for your generosity.

Haven't heard from you for some time. I appreciate your contributions throughout the years.

Albert

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 4:42 AM

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Walloping Funny

Not at all what I expected (and not at all pc!) but despite myself I fell off my chair laughing so hard my husband came upstairs to see what was going on. I couldn't begin to explain. Even with a dreadful high pitched faux-Southern American accented Bix character (a Brit parodying an American accent always puts me in hilarity fits anyway), it was a howl.

Laura D.

Over the weekend I stumbled across the Victrola my in-laws keep in their basement recreation room and finally dug out the popular records, when before I only looked at the opera discs. Imagine my astonishment; Rick's Grandpa Dominic had some real 1920's items! Old Pathes, Velvet Tone, Perfect, Brunswick, Banner - My Ohio Home with Deep River Orchestra,Somebody Lied about me with Sam Lanin Orch.; Ted Weems' Me and the Man on the Moon; My Troubles Are Over; It Made You Happy When you Made Me Cry by Bar Harbor Orch;Original Dixieland Jazz Band - Margie, Palesteena, St. Louis Blues, Jazz Me Blues, Lazy Daddy, Fidgety Feet - fun to compare ODJB to Wolverine versions. Two versions of Look What You've Done to Me: Black Diamonds on Banner and Leo Reisman on Victor. And Reisman's Doing the Boom Boom - surprisingly catchy for all its dopeyness. Aggrevatin' Papa and Aunt Hagar's Blues by the Virginians; Nathan Glantz' When My Sugar Walks Down the Street on Puritan Records; and Gray Gull label's Figaro and South Sea Isles. Columbia records' Waldoff Astoria Singing Orchestra's version of The Vamp
Okeh red label Syncopators Black Bottom and I'm Walking Around in Circles. And pre-Bix Paul Whiteman: the 1920 version of Japanese Sandman, and Whispering. Okay, most of it's not hot jazz and some of it's downright gooey pop, but it's still fun. Got it all put on cd. Holler if anyone wants a copy - who do I still owe a cd to out there?

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 7:41 PM

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A CD won't be necessary...

by Fredrik Tersmeden

... but I would love to have the discographical information (catalogue number, matrix number, full titles, composer and artist credits) that can be found on the Grey Gull record you mentioned, Laura.

Fredrik

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 6:16 AM

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Here's Grey Gull!

Okay, here's the Grey Gull info -

A deep crimson-red label. South Sea Isles (Fox Trot, Gershwin) Lenzberg's Riverside Orchestra, 1087 (a) 827

Figaro (Fox Trot, Leo David) Yerkes Musical Bell Hops, 1087 (b) 523

Hope this helps! :D

- Laura

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 6:15 PM

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Thank you very much, Laura!

by Fredrik Tersmeden

This goes straight into my Grey Gull database.

Fredrik

Posted on Sep 4, 2008, 7:30 AM

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The Astorites was a pseudonym for .....

.... the Fred Rich Orchestra. The name Astorites comes form the fact that Fred Rich was the house band at the Astor Hotel.

The Astor Hotel (built by financier John Jacob Astor's descendants) stood at 1515 Broadway at West 44th Street , NW Corner to West 45th Street between 1904 and 1967. Here is what it looked like

"It Made You Happy When You Made Me Cry" and ("I've Grown So Lonesome) Thinking of You" were recorded on Nov 22, 1926.

Velvet Tone records were produced by Columbia.

Rust does not give specific names of musicians for this recording session. Some of the trumpet players in Fred Rich's orchestra in 1926 given by Rust were Hymie Farbermann, Leo McConville, Mike Mosiello.

I'll let others answer your other questions.

Albert

Posted on Sep 7, 2008, 10:16 AM

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Thanks!

Thanks very much, Albert. Nice picture of hotel, too. I hazarded mid-20's for recordings.

I'm trying to delve as much as possible into record label books- Brian Rusts' is hideously expensive since it's been long out of print, and I've been told that in some areas it is inaccurate. I'm waiting for my "Almost Complete Guide. . .. " book I'm sending for, and try to refer to the one volume I currently own on labels: Les Docks' American Premium Record Guide, although that's rather cursory; there's a lot he doesn't cover.

I used to be find better "78's records" websites on line but now it's more diffacult; what happened to the one where one could listen to selections?

Laura

Posted on Sep 7, 2008, 10:42 AM

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Bob Haring as a leader recorded several sides ....

.... for Cameo using the pseudonym "Cameo Dance Orchestra." I did not find "Oh! Boy, What a Girl" in Rust. The online discography gives the date of the recording as Aug 8, 1925. Rust gives no information about the trumpet players in Haring's band or the Cameeo Dance Orchestra around this time.

According to Rust, in Nov 1925, Red Nichols recorded with the Cameo Dance Orchestra one side, "Lonely Girl."

Albert

Posted on Sep 7, 2008, 4:28 PM

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A couple of old threads about Bob Haring.

Here are links to postings related to Bob Haring.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1186953442

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1213048576

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1215297829

And listen to the Bob Haring recording of "Sweetheart, We Need Each Other" recorded in Oct 1929.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/sweetheartwe-need-each-other/354689677/?icid=VIDURVMUS05

Does this sound like "After You've Gone" to you, at least in parts? A question for Fredrik. Is the trumpeteer Mike Mosiello?

Albert

PS I have not found a CD with reissues of Bob Haring's recordings except a Crystal Stream Audio CD. Fredrik expressed reservations about CDs issued by this company.
Bob Haring had a son, Bob Haring, Jr. (associated with Harry Belafonte) Does anyone know how to get in touch with him?

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 4:58 AM

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two items about Bob Haring (and son)

Hi, Albert and all,

I have the Cameo Dance Orchestra side you mentioned ("Oh, Boy, What a Gal",) and the trumpet player sure sounds like Earl Oliver (to me, at least.)

Sadly, Bob Haring, Jr. is deceased. I had the occasion to talk with his widow in 1997.

Hope this helps!

Mike

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 5:20 AM

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Mosiello is not as easy...

by Fredrik Tersmeden

... to recognise when he's playing sweet as when he's playing hot, but I'd still say that the tone sounds quite like him (and I believe he recorded with Haring about this time).

Fredrik

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 8:19 AM

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Thanks to ....

Mike and Fredrik. I hear Mosiello too.

The reason I was interested in getting in touch with Bob Haring's son was to try to find some discographical information. Rust and other disocgraphical sources do not tell us much about who were the musicians in Bob Haring's recording sessions. Maybe Steve H has some information?

Albert

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 12:35 PM

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Bob Haring, and Cameo

I do not claim to be an authority here, but I'm offering my comments based on the years of listening I've done to two or more milkcrates full of Cameo 78s. Whoever sold these originally in the MD/PA area did a great job!

Based on aural evidence, I am commenting on personnel for many of Bob Haring's sides on Cameo. Keep in mind that I'm only referring to the acoustics (1922-1925 era.)

The trumpet soloist on the majority of these has to be Earl Oliver. A British collector friend pointed out to me about ten years ago, that Earl Oliver really only had about six solo routines, which he used over and over at many sessions. This is not to demean Oliver in any way: that fact that he appears on so many sides attests to his reading ability, and the "pre-composed" soloes must have enabled him to play "hot" when needed. On many of the Haring sides, I hear Oliver's solo routines, and it is that reason why I feel it is him on "OBWAG," and not Mike Mosiello. To his credit, Mosiello was a more expansive soloist (i.e. he did not rely on soloing routines,) and it is to my understanding that Mosiello performed solely with Vincent Lopez in the 1924-25 time period, and not in studio work as he did in the later 1920s (Grey Gull, Victor.)

This is not to say Oliver is the only trumpeter on Haring's sides: on "Midnight Rose (Cameo 419,) after the "hot" solo, one hears a "legit" player solo. This person has a large vibrato, and a very large tone, suggestive of someone like Del Staigers. The hot soloist on "MR" sounds like Tommy Gott: the player here sounds like the hot soloist on (acoustic) recordings by The Virginians (which was Gott, right?) The late Paul Burgess told me about research he had read where Red Nichols had also appeared on some Cameo sides, too (whether they were Haring sides, I do not know.)

On alto saxophone, I believe Nathan Glantz is certainly the soloist.

All in all, to have turned out so many great recordings they must have been first-rate studio musicians. I really, truly enjoy these sides.

Hope this helps!

Mike

Posted on Sep 8, 2008, 1:05 PM

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Crystal Stream

Could some of these reservations be mentioned, as I'm thinking of purchasing several discs from this company in the near future? Thanks!

Posted on Sep 10, 2008, 5:51 PM

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Reservations

Jon,

Here is a link to a posting by Fredrik where he expressed some reservations.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1019127456

The Dismuke board had a thread on Crystal Stream at

http://www.radiodismuke.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1728

Albert

Posted on Sep 11, 2008, 1:18 PM

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Top Twelve

by carl

When Leon Feathers's Top Twelve greatest trumpeters was a thread, I was thinking Harry should belong in that group much more than Art Farmer or Clark Terry, but Feather wasn't specifying what he meant by greatest, playing ability, influence, popularity, but still Harry excelled in all counts, and achieved what Louis or at least his management were aiming for, an immensely popular trumpet virtuoso fronting and stamping his own band.

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 1:10 PM

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Re: Top Twelve

by hal smith

There's a 1938 Benny Goodman, Victor big band version of 'SWEET SUE' the whole arrangment reminds me of Bix including James' muted solo

Posted on Sep 1, 2008, 8:07 AM

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Harry James and Bix

Albert,
The late Dick Sudhalter in his writings pointed out that Bobby Hackett, not James, was initially picked to be musical adviser and trumpeter for the film. He was going through some tough times then and was deemed "unreliable" for the project and James got the nod. I think Hackett's lyrical style which was closer to Bix's than James' would have been much better. Not to knock Harry, though. I have the soundtrack on 45's and love the chemistry between him and Doris Day. His playing, beyond the context of the film, is brilliant.
Jim Bruce

Posted on Sep 28, 2008, 10:31 AM

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Another Underrated Musician

This is from Dick Dupage in Record Research, Nov/Dec 1959 (thanks to Nick),

Don Rayno in his Whiteman book gives the following biographical capsule.

�Robert Jay �Bob� Mayhew (b. Aug 30, 1910, Milford IL; d. Nov 30, 1965, Los Angeles CA), trumpet player. Joined the Whiteman Orchestr with his brothers Jack and Nye in June 1927, leaving in Feb 1928 for the Hal Kemp Orchestra, which included brothers Jack and Gus, the latter a trombonist. Played a short stint with Freddy Rich, also in 1928. Later he sold real estate in the Los Angeles area.� Note: Bob Mayhew was the replacement for Red Nichols in Whiteman�s band.

We had a couple of threads about Bob Mayhew, see

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1140466290
http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1218208332

Sudhalter and Evans mention Bob Mayhew extensively in p. 227-228. They talk about how thrilled Bob was when Bix joined Whiteman. Bob was 16 years old when he joined Whiteman and 17 when he met Bix. Bob also is reported to talk about Bix�s craving for peanuts. Sudhalter mentions Bobby Mayhew in �Lost Chords� (p. 480) in connection with Jack Purvis�s first solo flight out in Roosevelt Field, Long Island. Jack and Bob were both with Hal Kemp�s band at the time.

The Bix-like trumpet playing by Mayhew was noted by Nick in �The Influence of Bix Beiderbecke,� Vol 1, where he includes �The Eyes of Texas� by the Carolina Club Orchestra (this recording was mentioned here http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1077713406 and played in WBIX # 40 at 36 minutes).

Nick also includes �Broadway Rose� in Vol 1 of �The Influence of Bix� CD. There is some question as to the identity of the soloist: Bob Mayhew or Mickey Bloom. This was also discussed here, see http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1202484818
Malcolm and I favor Bob Mayhew.

Another controversial recording � is it Mayhew or Bloom?- is included in Vol 5 of �Bix Restored.� This is Hal Kemp�s �Before the Rain.� Sudhalter favors Bloom. Do you agree?

Going back to �Walking With Susie,� OK 41237 Dick Dupage states that Bob Mayhew plays the solo . This was discussed in

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1218208332

I thought it was Mickey Bloom. I still do. Does anyone have the earlier version of �Walking With Susie� by Hal Kemp, BR 4327?

I looked up �Bob Mayhew� in Lord�s discography.

His first recording was with Whiteman on Aug 11, 1927 (Whiteman Stomp). His last was on Jan 24, 1928 (My Heart Stood Still).

Bob Mayhew recorded with Hal Kemp between Feb 16, 1928 and Oct 2, 1929.

His last recording was with Louis Armstrong, on Feb 4 1936. Bunny Berigan was also in the band.

There is also a recording with Hoagy Carmichael, in Richmond on Oct 28, 1927, �One Night in Havana� (the first time Hoagy recorded this tune). Andy Secrest, and Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey are also listed as present. This is one day after Bix and Tram joined the Whiteman band in Indianapolis. Whiteman had an engagement in the Indiana Theatre in Indianapolis Oct 22-29. Rayno reports that on Oct 27, 1927, Whiteman met Hoagy Carmichael. In the middle of the night Whiteman, Hoagy and Jimmy Dorsey went to Challis�s room so Hoagy could play �Washboard Blues� for Whiteman using Challis�s portable pump organ. So it is possible that Hoagy got some of Whiteman musicians (also Bob�s brother, Nye Mayhew) to record with him. Listen to this recording, a very modernistic arrangement.
http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/hoagy/onenight.ram>
I hear Jimmy and Tommy doing solos on alto and trombone, respectively.

Rust gives several recordings of Bob Mayhew with Fred Rich in May and June 1928. But Mayhew was with Kemp at this time. What is going on?

Finally, I was shocked to learn that Bob Mayhew joined Whiteman when he was 16, assuming Rayno�s birth date is correct. The SSDI lists

ROBERT MAYHEW 30 Aug 1910 Nov 1965(not specified) (none specified )028-03-2185

In perfect agreement with what Don Rayno writes. I�ll check the US census next time I go to the local library.

Albert

This message has been edited by ahaim on Aug 30, 2008 6:36 AM

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 6:33 AM

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That name seemed familiar

by Constantine

Athough this little known orchestra was in fact the campus band of the University of North Carolina, it was all but amateurish. It was formed in 1922 by Hal Kemp when studying there (without achieving a degree though), recorded for the famous Okeh label and toured in Europe. This brilliant version of a tune from the 1929 film "Syncopation" was recorded on July 1st, 1929. Besides Hal Kemp (leader, clarinet and tenor saxophone), personnel included: Mickey Bloom, Red Honeycutt, Jack Purvas, Dick Mackie, Bob Mayhew, Mickey Earl Geiger and Monk Buie, trumpet; Jimmy Brooks, drums; Saxi Dowell and Jack Mayhew, clarinet and tenor saxophone; Skinny Ennis, drums; Phil Fent, guitar; Joe Gillespie, clarinet and alto saxophone; Ollie Humphries, Harry Pond, William Waugh and Pinkie Kintzle, banjo; Gus Mayhew and Buck Weaver, trombone; Jim Mullen, bass brass; Slatz Randall and John Scott Trotter, piano; Jack Shirra, bass; Bruno Sulser, violin; Ben Williams, clarinet and saxophones, as well as William Wolfe, bass brass. The vocalists remained uncredited.

Carolina Club Orchestra - Do Something
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzMXvngW7A

Brother Jack was with Whiteman for a while too, right?

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 8:53 AM

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Please send an email message to ....

.... ahaim@bixography.com and tell me how you became interested in Bix's music.

Albert Haim
Forum Owner

PS There were two films titled "Syncopation." One in 1929 and one in 1941, where Jackie Cooper plays a trumpeter. Many of the big bands from the 1930s and 40s make appearances - Benny Goodman, Harry James, Gene Krupa, etc.

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 9:16 AM

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"Do Something " Kemp - re vocal refrain

by John Leifert

Yes indeed, Constantine - thanks for sending this! I love the Kemp band from this period, and have never heard that one. I'm a proud owner of "Walking With Susie" on 78, as well as other Okeh's including "Some Sweet Day", "He's So Unusual", and "The Eyes of Texas".

The vocal trio (or is it a quartet?) on "Do Something" does include Skinny Ennis in there - and he sings the solo bridge part - but as to who the others are, probably conjecture (although Kemp probably used the same 3 or 4 band members in the vocal trio or quartet parts at that time).

Thanks again!
John Leifert

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 12:57 PM

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Connection to Bix

"Do Something" was written by Bud Green and Sam Stept, born in Austria and Russia, respectively. They also cowrote "That's My Weakness Now," one of my favorite Bix-Whiteman recordings.

Here are some images of record labels of Whiteman's recording of "That's My Weakness Now."

Columbia (USA)

Columbia (British)

Columbia (French)

Regal (from Spain)

Note that the tune is a "fox-trot" in all the Columbias, but a "Charleston with melody" in the Regal. I guess, there must be Charlestons without melody?

Listen to this great arrangement by Tom Satterfield.

http://bixography.com/thatsmyweakness.ram

Albert

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 4:45 PM

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The Armstrong-Mayhew Session

Here is disco information from the Satchography.

Louis Armstrong And His Orchestra
February 4, 1936, New York, NY

I'm Putting All My Eggs In One Basket (Berlin, Irving) [master 60438-A] -- Decca 698
Yes! Yes! My! My! (She's Mine) (Cahn, Sammy; Chaplin, Saul) [master 60439-A] -- Decca 698

Armstrong, Louis (Trumpet, Vocal)
Berigan, Bunny (Trumpet)
Mayhew, Bob (Trumpet)
Philburn, Al (Trombone)
Waltzer, Phil (Alto Saxophone)
Ricci, Paul (Tenor Saxophone)
Trucker, Sid (Clarinet, Baritone Saxophone)
McGrath, Fulton (Piano)
Barbour, Dave (Guitar)
Peterson, Pete (Bass)
King, Stan (Drums)

Here are links to streaming files from the Red Hot Jazz Archive

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/Louie/lao/imputtingall.ram

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/Louie/lao/YesYesMyMy.ram

What the heck was Bob Mayhew doing there after so many years of inactivity (at least recording-wise)? And not Louis at his best. I much prefer Fred Astaire's version of "I'm Putting All My Eggs In One Basket." Take a look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hTLZz2hUOA
That is really Fred himself playing piano. From "Fred Astaire, Steps in Time," " Astaire p.65: "We struck up a friendship [with George Gershwin] at once. He was amused by my piano playing and often made me play for him." Take a look at this photo from http://www.wodehouse.org/PlumLines/damsel.html

Fred Astaire at the piano with George and Ira Gershwin.

There is nothing that Fred could not do!! What a genius.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCrDAmi1OJo&NR=1
Delightful, Superb, Imaginative, Funny!! I kept smiling throughout the singing and dancing! One of their all-time best to my taste. And a terrific tune by the great Irving Berlin.

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 6:20 AM

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Thank you

by Klaus H

This is delightful.

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 9:14 AM

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Another Bixian Mayhew solo

Bob Mayhew also plays a lovely Bixian solo on Kemp's recording of "My Lucky Star" (Brunswick 4212). Kemp is not included at RedHotJazz.com, but I can send you (Albert) an audio file of this record if anyone is interested.

Mike Laprarie

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:36 PM

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Thanks for the kind offer.

I accept gratefully. Please send file to alberthaim@yahoo.com

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:59 PM

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Bob Mayhew in the US Census.

I found two entries for the Robert Mayhew of interest here.

1930 Census
Robert Mayhew lives on University Place in Manhattan with his brother Nye. Both are musicans, born in Illinois, parents born in Illinois. The census was taken on April 25, 1930. The ages of Nye and Robert are given as 26 and 19, respectively.

1920 US Census
Samuel Mayhew, age 49, farmer, lives in Milford IL with his wife Mary, age 46, and children
Nye age 16
Illegible age 14
John age 11
Robert age 9

So Bob Mayhew was 16 !!!! when he was hired by Paul Whiteman.

Albert

Posted on Sep 2, 2008, 10:11 AM

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An mp3 file of "My LuckyStar" ....

.... recorded by Hal Kemp and His Orchestra on Jan 21, 1929 was kindly sent by Mike. Lovely tune and arrangement.

Copy and paste bixography.com/MyLuckyStarHalKemp.mp3

Connection to Bix: the violinist in the recording is Bromo Sulser. Merton "Bromo" Selser and His Collegians played in Davenport's Garden Theater at the end of 1924. Bix got in touch with Bromo and Cecil Huntzinger, pianist and co-leader of the band and informd them that he had enrolled in the University of Iowas for the 1925 Spring semester, and could he play with them? Indeed, he did several times in Jan and Feb 1925 at the Blue Goose Ballroom of the Burkley Hotel in Iowa City.

Albert

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 10:30 AM

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The Illegiuble Name

It is "Wendell." Wendell "Gus" Mayhew was another of the four musical Mayhhew brothers. He played trombone.

Albert

Posted on Sep 3, 2008, 10:33 AM

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Some Excellent Contributions from Nick

Nick kindly sends three very interesting items and provides the following information.

�I recently came across a book by Stanley R Nelson called "All About Jazz", which was published in London in 1934. In it, the author describes how he attended the famous Elizalde-Melody Maker concert for musicians on June 23rd 1928 at the Shepherd's Bush Pavilion. He makes an interesting observation about Elizalde's playing of "In A Mist": "....This was followed by a set of piano solos by Fred Elizalde, who commenced, in response to numerous requests, with his famous composition "Pianotrope," and finished with Bix Beiderbecke's "In A Mist", in which he was accompanied by the whole orchestra, the work having been scored for orchestra by Max Farley".

Incidentally, Nelson also provides a suggestion for why Quealey and Livingston had quit the band so suddenly a few days before the concert, and it seems to me to be a more believable, if somewhat more prosaic, reason than the one long held to be the case (that they got drunk and magically woke up on board a ship bound for their home country!). "Fud Livingston and Chelsea Quealey, two of the outstanding members of the band, left suddenly for America. The reason was not apparent at the time, although it is now averred that their income tax arrangers were responsible for their flight." I should add that we now know that they did not return directly to America, but went to France first!

In the attached photo, which shows Adrian Rollini arriving with his latest crop of US imports for the Elizalde band (February 1929), the person given in the caption as Max Farley looks so unlike the photo of Farley given in the souvenir booklet of the Shepherd's Bush concert, that I cannot believe it is the same man, unless he immediately went on a strict diet and lost many pounds! But that is certainly Fud on the extreme left of the photo and Arthur Rollini on the extreme right, and of course there is no mistaking Adrian. The front cover for the souvenir booklet is also attached, along with an interesting review of Livingston's well-known composition "Imagination".

1. The photograph.

2. The cover of the souvenir booklet.

3. The review of Red Nichols�s recording of �Imagination.�

Some additional comments. There is information about the Elizalde concert in

http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/recordingsinamist.htm#ElizaldePublicPerformance

Elizalde�s concert was discussed in the forum. See

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1062784744

There is a short piece entitled �Fred Elizalde and Bix� in

http://bixography.com/inforrelated.htm#elizaldebix

and reviews of Bix recordings in the MM (one review by the Elizalde brothers) in

http://ms.cc.sunysb.edu/~alhaim/ArticlesinMagazines.htm#melodymaker

I have a page (also thanks to Nick) about Livingston in

http://bixbeiderbecke.com/FudLivingston/FudLivingston.html

Now, on to �Imagination.�

There are several different compositions, all entitled �Imagination.� I will only cite a couple, other then Fud�s. One was composed by Roger Wolfe Kahn, Irving Caesar and Joseph Meyer. The red hot jazz archive has streaming files of the recordings of this tune by Winegar's Pennsylvania Boys, Roger Wolfe Kahn, and Harry Reser. There was in 1940 at least two recordings of Jimmy Van Heusen-johnny Burke�s composition �Imagination�, one by Glenn Miller and one by Tommy Dorsey.

Fud�s �Imagination� was recorded by Red Nichols and His Five Pennies on June 1, 1928. Miff Mole�s Molers had recorded the tune nine months earlier, on Aug 30, 1927. [I played Miff�s version in WBIX # 85, �Sophisticated/Modernistic Jazz From the 1920s.�] The Charleston Chasers recorded the tune one week later on Sep 8, 1927.The three versions have Red and Miff and Fud in them.

First listen to the three versions in chronological order.

Mole�s Molers http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/mole/imagination.ram

Charleston Chasers http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/charleston/imagination.ram

Five Pennies http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/BRUE27626.ram

My favorite version is Miff�s, by far. I love the trombone solo by Miff with Berton on cymbals behind; similar to Bix and Morehouse in �Im Coming Virginia.� Is this Miff�s longest solo on record? Red�s playing here is fantastic. Incidentally, two remarks in connection with recent postings in the forum. �Imagination� is an example of a jazz ballad, particularly the Miff and Charleston Chasers versions. The version by the Five Pennies has at the end (unmistakably, and at the beginning also, but not as clearly enunciated) a quote of �A Blues Serenade.�

Now the musicians in the bands, all from Rust.

Miff Mole�s Molers.
Red Nichols, t; Miff Mole, tb; Fud Livingston, cl, as; Adrian Rollini, bsx; Arthur Schutt, p; Dick McDonough, bj; Eddie Lang, g; Vic Berton, d.
Problem: In his Lang discography, Ray Mitchell lists the same musicians except that he adds Pee Wee Russell on as and gives Fud only an as role. Sudhalter in �Lost Chords� and Steve Stroff in �Red Head� give the same as Ray. Since the recording consists mostly of Miff�s and Red�s solos, I can�t tell if there are two alto saxes. I don�t even hear Lang. I hear a banjo at the end. I hear the great Rollini throughout with little bits that add a dimension to the recording.

Charleston Chasers.
Red Nichols, Leo McConville, t; Miff Mole, tb; Pee Wee Russell, Fud Livingston, cl, as; Jack Hansen, bb; Lennie Hayton, p; Dick McDonough, bj, g; Carl Kress, g; Vic Berton,d.
Who plays the clarinet solo at 1:46? Sudhalter tells us it is Pee Wee. Do you agree? I think it is Fud. Brad, you have studied Fud in detail; what is your opinion?

Red Nichols.
Red Nichols, Leo McConville, Manny Klein, t; Miff Mole, tb; Dudley Fosdick, mel; Fud Livingston, cl, as; Joe Venuti, vn; Arthur Schutt, p; Carl Kress, g; Art Miller, sb; Chauncey Morehouse, d
Steve Stroff does not list Klein, Venuti and Miller. This agrees with the list of musicians in the review Nick sent, except for the instrument (b or g) played by Kress (and the spelling of his first name) and the presence of Klein. I don�t hear a violin or a sb. I hear vibes. The clarinet at 0:1 is probably Fud (agree, Brad?). Dudley comes in at 1:25 and Miff at 2:14.

I agree that the solos vary from recording to recording.

Thanks Nick, for sending this. It made me revisit �Imagination,� a great tune with three great interpretations.

Albert

Posted on Aug 29, 2008, 8:27 AM

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About Fud Livingston, ....

.... a Ralph Venables quote found in http://www.devradowrite.com/?p=127

Here�s what R. G. V. Venables, wrote in an English publication [Melody Maker Mag. Jan. 5, 1940]: �Fud Livingston � a composer of infinitely greater range and harmonic sophistication than [Jelly Roll] Morton � had reached, by 1928, a degree of accomplishment in scoring unmatched by Duke Ellington and Don Redman.�

Albert

Posted on Aug 29, 2008, 5:06 PM

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Joe Sanders and his orchestra

by Steve Zalusky

For those of you who are fans of Coon-Sanders and are curious what happened to the band after Coon's death, here is a link to recordings and radio broadcasts by Joe Sanders and his Orchestra. http://www.archive.org/details/JoeSandersNighthawks-11-20

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 11:38 AM

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Whiteman with Bix On Tour In Europe?

This is from the Davenport paper

The reporter claims that Whiteman with Bix, will go on tour in Europe in the late winter, spring and summer [1928].

I have not seen this anywhere else, in Evans and Evans or in Rayno's book. Has anyone?

Imagine how different the science/art of Bixology would have been if Whiteman with Bix had gone to Europe in 1928!!

Albert

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 11:01 AM

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WBIX # 154 has been uploaded

Radio Program # 154. (loaded on 08/28/08) Recordings of Miff Mole without Red Nichols 1 hour 4 minutes.

Real Audio
Streaming audio file http://www.bixography.com/wbix154.ram
Download file. 15.8 MB http://www.bixography.com/wbix154.rm

mp3 files
Streaming mp3 file http://bixography.com/wbixmp3/wbix154.m3u
Download file Copy and paste bixography.com/wbixmp3/wbix154.mp3 62.0 MB

Jimtown Blues. Cotton Pickers. 1924.
Mishawaka Blues. Cotton Pickers. 1925.
Tessie! Ray Miller. 1925.
Red Hot Henry Brown. Ray Miller. 1925.
I've Got A Feeling I'm Falling. Miff Mole's Molers. 1929.
That's A Plenty. Miff Mole's Molers. 1929.
Sweet Papa Joe. Original Memphis Five. 1923.
Hootin' the Hoot. Original Memphis Five. 1923.
Ain't Misbehavin'. Charleston Chasers. 1929.
Moanin' Low. Charleston Chasers. 1929.
My Honey's Loving Arms. Jazzbo's Carolina Serenaders. 1922.
Cuddle Up Blues. Jazzbo's Carolina Serenaders. 1922.
Wouldn't You? Roger Wolfe Kahn. 1926.
Just the Same. Roger Wolfe Kahn. 1927.

WBIX #155 will be uploaded on October 3, 2008.

Albert
http://bixbeiderbecke.com
http://bixography.com/wbix.html

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 6:05 AM

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Jimmy Lytell, An Underrated Clarinetist.

From Oxford Music Online

Lytell, Jimmy [Sarrapede, James]
(b New York, 1 Dec 1904; d Kings Point, NY, 28 Nov 1972). American clarinetist. By the age of 14 he was playing professionally in a roadhouse owned by his uncle. Having taken a new surname from that of a film actor, Bert Lytell, he joined the Original Indiana Five (autumn 1921) and then the Original Dixieland Jazz Band (early 1922), replacing Larry Shields. From March 1922 to 1925 he was a member of the Original memphis five, and during this period he took part in many of its pseudonymous studio sessions (for a listing of group names see Napoleon family, (1) Phil). Throughout the 1930s and 1940s Lytell conducted and played for several radio programs. He was a music director for NBC in the mid-1940s and presented his own dixieland show, �The Chamber Music Society of Lower Basin Street� (1940, 1941, 1944). He joined Napoleon�s re-formed Original Memphis Five in summer 1949 and Frank Signorelli�s re-formed Original Memphis Five in the mid-1950s, recording with Signorelli (as accompanists to Connee Boswell) in 1956 and under Miff Mole�s leadership in 1958. He continued to perform both as a leader and a freelance until shortly before his death. As a member of the Original Memphis Five Lytell helped to introduce a freer style of improvisation in the dixieland idiom. Later his playing was influenced by the work of Benny Goodman and Peanuts Hucko.
Raymond J. Gariglio/Barry Kernfeld

Scott Yanow states that Jimmy Lytell is underrated. I strongly agree.
Jimmy Lytell
Born:
Dec 01, 1904

Died:
Nov 28, 1972
� Genre: Jazz
� Instrument: Clarinet
Biography
One of the most underrated clarinetists in jazz history, Jimmy Lytell was one of the first clarinetists to really swing, but he never really achieved much fame. He began playing professionally at age 12. A member of the Original Indiana Five in 1921, Lytell was a member of the Original Memphis Five, with whom he recorded extensively from 1922-25. He also spent part of 1922-24 as a member of the declining Original Dixieland Jazz Band. After the late 1920s, Lytell was found more often in the studios and orchestras (including being on NBC's staff) for radio programs than in jazz settings, although he managed to combine the two by being the musical director for "The Chamber Music Society of Lower Basin Street" in the early 1940s. Starting in 1949 and continuing off and on for a decade, he often gigged with the new Original Memphis Five. He recorded with Connee Boswell in the late 1950s and performed in public as late as 1971. As a leader, Lytell recorded 18 songs from 1926-28 and six others for the London label in 1950.
~ Scott Yanow, All Music Guide.

Listen Jimmy Lytell�s solo in �Tin Roof Blues� with the Original Memphis Five, 1-4-1923.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/om5/tin.ram

Listen to Jimmy Lytell accompanying my favorite female singer, Annette Hanshaw.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/hanshaw/blackbottom.ram

http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/hanshaw/6feetofpapa.ram

Jimmy Lytell�s most famous composition (with Vincent Grande, Frank Signorelly and Mitchell Parish) is probably �A Blues Serenade.� It is one of my all-time favorite tunes. Listen to several versions.

Original Memphis Five http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/om5/serenade.ram

Glenn Miller http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/ARC17379.ram (great vocal by Smith Ballew)

Duke Ellington http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/BRUM880-1.ram (have you ever heard a mellower Duke?)

You can hear �A Blues Serenade� and see Lytell playing it in the following video.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/capitolians/video/x1gbm2_im-more-than-satisfied-the-capitoli_music
(Also Jimmy Dorsey and Miff Mole)

The lyrics are beautiful, very poetic.

If there is a Cinderella
Looking for a steady fella
Listen to my serenade in blue
Toss at night upon my pillow
Mournful as a weeping willow
Haunted by my serenade in blue
Why must I go on dreaming of
An imaginary love
Wish I had someone to sing to
One that I could kiss and cling to
No one hears my serenade in blue
Toss at night upon my pillow
Mournful as a weeping willow
Haunted by my serenade in blue
Why must I go on dreaming of
An imaginary love
Wish I had someone to sing to
One that I could kiss and cling to
No one hears my serenade in blue
� EMI MILLS MUSIC INC

Bing recorded �A Blues Serenade� in 1931. I have it � somewhere.

Paul�s daughter noted

see http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1205231147/Signorelli

that �In Bix-Tram�s recording of �Krazy Kat� (composer Trumbauer- Morehouse) with Frank Signorelli at the piano they play a phrase in the coda three times that is identical with the second phrase in the same man�s composition �A Blues Serenade�
Signorelli recorded his song first in September 1926 and the Trumbauer recording is from September 28, 1927 all according to the Red Hot Jazz Archive where you can hear the two tunes:
http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/tram/krazykat.ram
http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/om5/serenade.ram�>

At the time Paul posted (3-11-2008) I thought that this was a new finding. See my posting of 3/11/2008

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1205241179

Not to diminish the terrific insight of Paul�s daughter, I had made the same observation four years earlier

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27140/message/1080057058

but because my brain is in need of recharging, I had forgotten about this finding.

Albert

Posted on Aug 27, 2008, 1:05 PM

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Davenport Blues Played by a Trio

by
Rob kindly sent this image of Jimmy Lytell's recording of Davenport Blues

Recorded in Feb 1928 by Jimmy Lytell, cl; Frank Signorelli, p; ?Lou Calabrese, bj.

Thanks, Rob.

Posted on Aug 27, 2008, 5:02 PM

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Capitolians
by Paul Bocciolone Strandberg
Jimmy Lytell plays Frank Signorelli's beautiful tune "A Blues Serenade" in the film with The Capitolians from 1929 in which Lou Calabrese is on banjo.

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 3:14 AM

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Lytell
by
I watch this film nearly every day-- I am captivated by it, especially Lytell's solo.

Norman Field has a Neovox cassette of Jimmy Lytell's solo recordings for Pathe-Perfect, and it is wonderful. Between these, the Hanshaw sides, and his work with the OM5, I don't think the man ever played a bad note.

I read once he recorded some sides for the Joe Davis labels in 1944, and that he recorded for London in 1950 (trumpeter Shorty Sherock was in this band, I think.) Have these sides been reissued anywhere?

Thank you,

Mike

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 6:28 PM

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Lytell...
by Fredrik Tersmeden
... also appeared on some small "chamber jazz" recordings led by violinist Al Duffy in the late 1930s.

Fredrik

Posted on Aug 29, 2008, 1:38 AM

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Al Duffy's Four were ....
by
.... Al, Jimmy Lytell, Frank Victor and Joe Tarto. They recorded four sides on Jan 31, 1938. They seem to be kind of novelty recordings rather than jazz: Marie Ah Marie, Funicula Funicula, Ciribiribin and La Espagnola.

Jimmy also recorded with Mildred Bailey. Listen to "Sometimes" recorded on Feb 12, 1942 with Billy Butterfield, t; Jack Jenney, tb among others.

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/DEC70310-A.ram

Albert

This message has been edited by ahaim on Aug 29, 2008 5:29 PM

Posted on Aug 29, 2008, 8:55 AM

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Connections between Bix and Jimmy Lytell
by
The following played and/or recorded with both Bix and Jimmy Lytell.

Miff Mole
Frank Signorelli
Joe Tarto
Irving Brodsky
Eddie Lang
Jimmy Dorsey
Vic Berton
Carl Kress
Rube Bloom
George Brunies
Chauncey Morehouse
Charlie Nargulis

I would not be surprised if Bix and Jimmy Lytell knew each other. I am surprised that Joe Venuti is not on the list. Or did I miss him? Any other musicans you can think of?

Albert

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 5:20 AM

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Lytell
by Gilbert M. Erskine
My desktop crashed and is in for repair [if possible].

In the meantime, my laptop is not picking up the audio
on links. So I couldn't do the examples of Lytell you
provided.

When I began junk shop collecting 78RPM jazz records circa
1945-6, I did notice Lytell's exceptional ability on the
Original Memphis 5 sides. But I did not follow through
with any kind of study. I just followed the crowd in
enthusiasms for Tesch, Goodman, Roppolo, de Faut, and
other early white clarinetists.

I'm glad to hear Scott Yanow has taken an interest in him.
Maybe now there will be the critical attention Lytell
deserves.

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 4:52 PM

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Tal Henry
by
Is it possible that the unidentified clarinetist in the Tal Henry Vitaphone videos is Jimmy Lytell? I would like to hear some "neutral" opinion.
Veniero Molari

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:02 PM

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There are two entries for the same Tal Henry video in ....
by
.... daily motion. It is hot stuff.

One uploaded by redhotjazz http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/%2522tal%2Bhenry%2522/video/x1xaij_tal-henrys-north-carolinians1929_music

One uploaded by Sir Arnold http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/%2522tal%2Bhenry%2522/video/x168sc_tal-henry-orchestra-1929_music

Sir Arnold refers to the clarinetist as "unknown." Redhot jazz identifies him as one of the regular clarinetists in Tal Henry's band, Walter Fellman. The clarinetist in the Tal Henry video does not look nor sound like Jimmy Lytell to me.

Albert

Posted on Aug 31, 2008, 3:15 PM

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Giving explanation
by
A list of the musicians and his recordings are listed within the book "Tal Henry and His North Carolinians Orchestra." We believe there were others that performed with the orchestra from time to time. However, we have no records of any others with the exception of Vern Yocum who was very famous and was added to the list of musicians. The personnel was listed from other sources than that of the Tal Henry memorabilities.

If you know of others, please send credibility of those who may have played on occasions with the Tal Henry Orchestra. Very often when orchestras went to different cities, musicians may have been added to the performance. We would be delighted to get the certified names of other musicians. Please give names and year and any other information to the email address below.

Sincerely,
Sara and Tal Henry, Jr.
shenry7485@aol.com

Posted on Jun 28, 2009, 7:05 AM

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Giving explanation
by
A list of the musicians and his recordings are listed within the book "Tal Henry and His North Carolinians Orchestra." We believe there were others that performed with the orchestra from time to time. However, we have no records of any others with the exception of Vern Yocum who was very famous and was added to the list of musicians. The personnel was listed from other sources than that of the Tal Henry memorabilities.

If you know of others, please send credibility of those who may have played on occasions with the Tal Henry Orchestra. Very often when orchestras went to different cities, musicians may have been added to the performance. We would be delighted to get the certified names of other musicians. Please give names and year and any other information to the email address below.

Sincerely,
Sara and Tal Henry, Jr.
shenry7485@aol.com

Posted on Jun 28, 2009, 7:05 AM

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Vitaphone by Warner Bros. and Victor Recording Co.
by Sara R. Henry
I have no knowledge of the musicians in the Vitaphone Film.

Posted on Jun 28, 2009, 6:37 PM

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Profound Scam
by Sara R. Henry
Profanity used is turned over to the security.

Posted on Jun 28, 2009, 6:38 PM

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A Newspaper Account of the Bix Vigil, August 2008
by
See http://www.timesnewsweekly.com/news/2008/0814/local_news/040.html

Correction, not Paul Hyman, Dick Hyman.

I received the copy of the CD "Thinking About Bix" that Dick kindly sent. Very interesting. I will comment in the next few days.

Albert

Posted on Aug 27, 2008, 10:45 AM

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Nice
by Klaus H
How long was he there at Bliss Street? "The last days" were a brief period, no?

Posted on Aug 27, 2008, 12:34 PM

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Just ....
by
.... few weeks.

Albert

Posted on Aug 27, 2008, 1:00 PM

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Another account: The Woodside Herald
by
Paul kindly sent this from the Woodside Herald.

Bix Beiderbecke Sunnyside Memorial

Held on Saturday August 9, 2008 the annual �Bix Beiderbecke Sunnyside Memorial� was a huge success this year, attracting local residents, neighborhood politicians and jazz fans alike. The stage was set with photos and memorabilia of Bix Beiderbecke. A beautiful bouquet of flowers also on display was donated by the Nunziato Florist. Jazz fans came from as far away as eastern Long Island and Pennsylvania to attend and honor jazz legend Bix Beiderbecke. Bix, a jazz pioneer and music legend, died at the young age of 28, on Aug. 6, 1931, at 9:30 pm, in his apartment at 43-30 Bliss (46th) Street here in Sunnyside.
The concert opened with the Sunnyside Drum Corps playing selections that demonstrated how the roots of jazz grew out of the music of the traditional marching band.
Paul Maringelli, the organizer of the event welcomed the crowd with a few words about Bix Beiderbecke before taking his place behind the drums. Pamela Winter president of the Kiwanis Club of Sunnyside presented Mr. Maringelli with a check to help cover the cost of the memorial event. The Kiwanis have been helping to finance this event since it�s inception in 2001.
Spatz Donovan, Sunnyside resident and well-known rag-time performer, did impressions of famous celebrities of the �Jazz Era� including Al Jolson, W.C. Fields and Bing Crosby and sang a few songs in their styles.
Next, David Shenton performed Bix�s semi-classical piano composition �In a Mist�. Mr. Shenton is originally from England, worked at Abbey Road Studios, and is now a Sunnyside resident. He recently released �Sunnyside Blues� an album of original music.
Father Joseph Jerome of the All Saints Church, where the event took place, said a nice prayer in memory of the late Bix Beiderbecke. Professor Albert Haim, a Bix historian, also made a short speech.
The Sunnyside Memorial Jazz Orchestra, organized by another Sunnyside resident Frank Pedulla, took the stage performing �Fidgety Feet� the classic song by Bix Beiderbecke and The Wolverines. The band performed their versions of many of Bix�s recordings, with cornet player Dr. Kirby Jolly playing all of Bix�s parts.
Mr. Pedulla then welcomed jazz singer Gia Williams to the stage and she sang a special arrangement with the band.
With a rousing performance of �When the Saints Go Marching In� the Sunnyside Memorial Jazz Orchestra ended their set. Spats Donovan and Gia Williams joined in leading the crowd in a sing-along.
Taking center stage again David Shenton performed �Bix�s Blues� his original composition.
After a short break came Frank Ridley, trumpet player of the Cotton Club Orchestra, who led a Dixieland jam session featuring Frank Pedulla on trombone, Eddie Kent on banjo, David Shenton on violin and piano, and Paul Maringelli on drums.
The night ended with a candlelight vigil as fans walked into the lobby of the building where Bix died tragically so many years ago.
This event was made possible in part by The Queens Council on the Arts with public funding from The New York City Department of Cultural Affairs, The Kiwanis Club of Sunnyside and local donations.

Photos by John �Doc� Millus

Posted on Aug 30, 2008, 8:10 AM

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The Meaning of the word 'Forum'
by
In Roman times a Forum was a democratic discussion meeting where every individual had his opportunity to put a point of view. That is the exact point of this Bix Forum. Have your say on Bix from your perspective. Some will agree, others disagree. Unfortunately the present site has attracted, from under quite a few stones, some sick individuals who are in need of urgent treatment in a psyciactric unit. If you wish to write something obscene there must be a public lavatory wall near you where you will be much happier in surroundings more suitable than here. Bear this in mind. This Forum is read all around the Globe. There are Bixophiles in all countries. There are plenty here in Britain. Yet you give America a bad name if there appears to be a large number of sickos, weirdos, nutters and assorted loony toons who have no interest in Bix's music but would rather just hijack the site. So just go away and crawl back under those stones from whence you came and leave the rest of us to get on with the original purpose of the Forum.

Posted on Aug 27, 2008, 2:05 AM

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Forum
by
Please let me be precise: a forum was not a discussion, but a place in wich citizens met for commerce, justice, and also discussions.
For the rest I agree.

Veniero Molari

This message has been edited by ahaim on Aug 27, 2008 6:43 AM

Posted on Aug 27, 2008, 6:35 AM

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So why the USA?
by
Ken, not that I disagree with your remarks about the low life that posted garbage on our forum site, but I wondered how you reached the conclusion that it came from someone in the US? My impression was that it might well have come from Europe somewhere....but that's only an unfounded impression.

You're absolutely correct though, let's get back to Bix! As far as the fools go, they can be from anywhere!

Posted on Aug 27, 2008, 1:47 PM

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An Apology
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Thanks for your message Jim and I take your point. On reflection these unpleasant messages do originate from elsewhere. This Forum is read all around the world. These people know they can hide behind the anonimity of the Internet. They are cowards. I once said to Albert it would be great if it were possible to, on receipt of an unpleasant message, press a key on the keyboard to deliver one million volts back down the line for instant extermination! Of all jazz musicians from the time way back in the gay nineties when Dixieland musicians blew moaning saxophones into lengths of gaspipe (Bix's own words in the "Democrat!") to the present day Bix receives more coverage than any other musician. And quite rightly too. The whole subject of Bix, his life and music continues to fascinate us all. So the Forum will always be bigger than any insignificant individual loony toon. Greetings to all Bix fans from Britain.

Posted on Aug 28, 2008, 3:42 AM

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