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CARM apologetics

April 10 2010 at 10:26 AM

Truthseeker  (Login Provoker42)

This list of opinions was posted on the apologetics forum at CARM, under the title; "true gospel hidden for the national security of the Roman Empire". The thread became one of the most watched, currently active threads of the apologetics forum. Any serious challenges quickly fizzled out, and one brave soul tried his best to confuse the issue with a constant barrage of ad hominem and strawman arguements.

(1) Abraham believed the everlasting, unconditional, promise God made to him. Abraham's belief in that promise was counted unto him for righteousness.

(2) Paul said that God preached the gospel to Abraham first. Abraham was the first to become justified by belief in the gospel, making Abraham the father of all after him who are justified by belief in the gospel.

(3) God's promise to Abraham was that a great nation of Abraham's children, will inherit all the land between the Euphrates and the River of Egypt(the land of Canaan) for an everlasting possession, and will bless all the nations.

(4) Being justified and counted righteous are the same thing.

(5) God's promise in the Abrahamic Covenant is the gospel.

(6) God chose The Children of Israel to become the great nation which would inherit the land for an everlasting possession, and bless all the nations. God gave The Children of Israel 10 commandments to follow to become that great nation.

(7) Israel conquered the land of Canaan(the land between the Euphrates and the river of Egypt), and became a kingdom.

(8) The kingdom of Israel became divided against it'self and fell.

(9) In order for the Abrahamic Covenant to be fulfilled as God promised, the fallen kingdom of Israel must be resurrected from the dead.

(10) In order to resurrect the kingdom of Israel, the land of promise must be retaken, and a king will be required to ascend the resurrected throne of David.

(11) When Jesus was born, the messianic goal was stated as; He will be given the kingdom of his father David, and he will bring peace on earth.

(12) Jesus died without ever being given the kingdom of David, and he never did bring peace on earth.

(13) We are still waiting for the messiah to come and fulfill the only messianic goal stated in scripture; Be given the kingdom of his father David, and bring peace on earth.

(14) The gospel and the Abrahamic Covenant are the same thing, and it has not yet been fulfilled.

(15) Church tradition, made official at Nicea in 325AD, is that the gospel, and the new covenant, are that Jesus came to die in our place, to redeem us from the penalty for sin, which we inherited from Adam.

(16) The traditional church gospel is absolutely nothing like the true gospel which justifies people for their belief.

(17) God said that He will make a New Covenant with resurrected Israel, because Israel's forefathers broke the 10 commandments. A New Covenant defined as; God will write His laws on the hearts of Israel. No one will tell his brother or his neighbour to know God, because all will know God.

(18) The traditional New Covenant of today's church, like it's traditional gospel, is absolutely nothing like the New Covenant defined by God Himself.

(19) The old covenant is everlasting, and not one jot or tittle must ever pass away from it. However, since New Covenant Israel will do by nature the things contained in the 10 commandments, Israel will be incapable of breaking the 10 commandments. This means that Israel will naturally maintain everlasting possession of the land.

(20) Israel will have received everlasting life because of God's grace in making the New Covenant with Israel, the Davidic kingdom will have been established forever, Israel will continue on to bless all the nations with everlasting peace on earth, and all of God's promises will have been fulfilled.

(21) While the false church traditions, regarding the gospel and the New Covenant, probably existed long before the Nicean Council of 325AD, it was at that council that those false traditions were made universally orthodox, and the universal church based on them began.

"I don't speak for God, but somebody has to speak for the bible story."

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