Kate: But the thing about belief is that it can't be proven. If it could be proven, then it would be knowledge, and a fact. I have seen Christians telling you here online that the existence of God is a proven fact, and that is utter nonsense. The existence - or non-existence - of God cannot be proven, it is purely a matter of belief based on personal experience, probability/improbability, and how reliable we consider the sources.
Belief may be proven, it may be a starting place only.
Newton believed many things, he turned some into fact, didnt get round to turning other things into fact, and was unable to turn other somethings into fact, ie alchemy.
Some things remained belief for him for all sorts of reasons.
Carl Savan suggested that extraordinary claims required extraordinary proofs.
The bible has extraordinary claims that flies in the face of everyones experience, and there are so multiditinous piles of claims that fail to be provable that saying god cannot be proved seems vaccuous. Your god is claimed to be ultimately responsible in everything, but his definately tracable acts cant be uniquely found anywhere?
The mulitudinous ways that people find ways of believing/knowing god is also witness to the desperation that people seek him.
Why would god be impossible to discover? It must be very intentional for his traces to be lost, and false trails of science to be placed everywhere.
Not consistant for someone who wants to be found to hide himself so thoroughly.
The early bible? No resurrection. You have to be detirmined to not conclude that jesus died from being killed.
If you are able to conclude whatever you like, but the wacky claims and the things proven false should lead most that the jesus story is an attractive hoax. It goes beyond thinking that man can live foreever
Zombie Jesus who sort of came back from the dead...
Away in a graveyard, a stone overhead
The zombie lord Jesus is raised from the dead
The bones and the corpses are at his command
And rise like their master to swarm o'er the land!
The women are screaming, then running away
Poor Mary and Martha are gnawed where they lay
I fear thee, lord Jesus, your curséd undeath
With worms in your bowels and rot on your breath.
Have mercy, lord Jesus, don't eat me today
Next year I'll be bigger, I promise! I pray
Some shaman or rabbi or priestess or such
Will stake you and save us from your deadly touch.
I know Bible literalists apologists have their explanations, but they are ultimately just band aids over bull sh!t.
Biblical Pitfalls http://www.network54.com/Forum/660399/