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to JVH, from below.

April 21 2012 at 9:51 PM

Kate  (Login kateothelamp)

I had no option on the post to respond to you. Either it's a glitch, the thread was too long, or we broke Mondo's board. Since there are options to respond on other posts, I don't think anything is irreparably broken.

If this wasn't a new turn, I wouldn't respond...but there is a little glimmer of something else, so why not? Can't be any worse than the rest of that thread =)


Response to Yes, that's right about where you came in...

K: The latest gospel, John, was completed about 60 years after his death, and the opening verses claim his deity.

JVH: The opening verses you refer to do not seem to claim the deity of the Jesus character, those opening verses do mention a "John" though (nice play on words eh? ).

Sorry, the play on words went right over my head...not sure what you are talking about.

And I don't know if we are looking at the same verses from the beginning of John. These are the verses I'm looking at:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husbands will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, This is the one I spoke about when I said, He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

This passage states:
There was a being, existent from the beginning of everything, who was with God and who was God. This being is referred to as the Word.
All things were created through this being -- the Word.
In the Word was life that is the light of all mankind.
There was a man named John who came to testify about that light. Vs. 8: He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
When the Word, this light, came into the world, the world did not recognize or receive him.
This being, the Word, became a human being and lived on earth. Vs 14 the Word, became flesh and made his dwelling among us. The Word is referred to as the Son of God.
No one has ever seen God, but the Son (the Word) has made him known.

From the rest of the text of John, which is all about the life and ministry of Jesus -- who was frequently referred to as the Son of God -- it is clear that "the Word" is Jesus.

The Word was with God, the Word was God, the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Whether or not you believe this text, believe in God, or believe Jesus existed is irrelevant. This is what it states in the text.

JVH: As for "your" beliefs, they are not my call, they never were, since I realize that what you so lovingly like to call "your" beliefs aren't "your" beliefs at all, they are someone else's beliefs (you seem to be in agreement with for some reason or other) and have adapted as your own.

Yes, they are my much as anyone's beliefs about anything are their own. I suppose you could argue that every single thing anyone thinks or believes if they've heard anything like it ever before anywhere isn't "their" belief, but one they've adapted. Or adopted. Or both. "Adapt" usually means "to change", and "adopt" means "to accept". I would say that I have read and talked with a lot of people about their beliefs about God, adopted some of those beliefs, and adapted others so they made more sense to me.

If I adopted children, they were once someone else's, but they are mine now, hmm? And yes, I would "loving like to call" them my own. =D

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