Why do you treat Atheists like your true brethren Gerard?
Because they are polite?
For there is no respect of persons with God.
But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.
Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.
this honour have all his saints. Gerard Gerard Gerard.... hmmmm
You just pointed out the essence of this disagreement.
April 13 2011, 10:51 AM
Mondo said: I do believe Tim In an intelligence underlying the Cosmos.
I could be wrong though.
There it is. The entire essence of this disagreement. You admit that you could be wrong.
I don't think that there is an intelligence behind the Universe because of a lack of evidence, but I fully admit that I could be wrong, and that the evidence simply hasn't been discovered yet.
Who are the only ones in this disagreement that WILL NOT admit that their beliefs might... just might... be wrong? Christians and other supernaturalists.
I've always told Yvonne and Tim that they might be right and I might be wrong. Maybe the Universe was created by a giant, invisible man who lives in the sky like the Bible describes. But I sure don't see any evidence for this hypothesis.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell
"Anybody who tells you they know... they just know what happens when you die... I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the 'big questions' is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs considering that human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong." -- Bill Maher
"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion." -- Robert M. Pirsig
Being wrong is one thing, realizing it another, admitting it something else.
The problem does not lie with being wrong, even most of the time, per se - it lies with not realizing it.
Humans within all societies in all periods of history believed that their ideas on the nature of the real world were the most secure; that their ideas on religion, ethics, justice, politics, knowledge, the shape of reality and so on were the most enlightened.
Like us today, they were convinced that final knowledge was, at last, within reach. Like us, they pitied the people in earlier ages for not knowing the true facts.
Humans today pity their ancestors for being so ignorant and for that reason fail to see that their descendants will pity them for the same.
-it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does after all, truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true - everything else ... mere conjecture-
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This message has been edited by JVH on Apr 13, 2011 9:54 PM