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God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

May 29 2012 at 4:05 PM
  (Login GreatestIam)

 
God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Omnipotent is defined in part as having power or authority without limits IOW, almighty.

Seems to me that God has a few limits.

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
He could not create a heaven without Satan.
He could not create Eden without evil in it.
He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.
He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

 
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Tim
(no login)

Can God taste the food you eat?

May 30 2012, 12:32 AM 

Can God experience having sex?

1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

When God dwells in you, there's no doubt He experiences your experiences.

And likewise when we dwell in God we see things quite a bit differently.

The only thing the Bible says God can't do is lie.
Hebrews 6:18
18.. impossible for God to lie,..
Titus 1:2
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began

God has no other limitations other then not being able to lie.

So why do you suppose God commanded "Thou shalt not lie"?

And why do you suppose God cannot lie but humans can? Its a difference in power, what God speaks becomes reality and is manifest, therefor it is impossible for God to lie.

Humans can do one thing God can't do, lie.



DL said;
""""He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.""""

Not true DL, Jesus lived and was created long before Mary gave birth to Jesus.

Understand this DL; John1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: {power: or, the right, or, privilege}
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

I pray your eyes are opened friend.
Tim


 
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(Login GreatestIam)

Re: Can God taste the food you eat?

May 30 2012, 3:27 PM 

Thanks. I like to think I see 20/20.

Jesus lived before Mary gave birth to him and I take it before she was even born!!??

How does that work exactly? Time travel or a bunch of other miracles for us to swallow?
If so, did he impregnate his own mother?

--------------------------------

God has no other limitations other than not being able to lie.

It can also be argued that God is a liar.

I will get you a few quotes but before I do I need your answer to a moral question.

If I place a lie in someones mind and they pass on that lie, am I culpable of lying?
Would God also be culpable for doing the same thing?

Scripture also indicates that he is limited to one begotten son.
This also indicates that he cannot reproduce a true blooded, so to speak, son.
Or he would not have lowered himself to use a human.

Quite a limit FMPOV.

Regards
DL

 
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Tim
(no login)

Re: Can God taste the food you eat?

May 31 2012, 2:02 AM 

>>>>Jesus lived before Mary gave birth to him and I take it before she was even born!!??

That's correct DL.

>>>>How does that work exactly? Time travel or a bunch of other miracles for us to swallow?

God created Jesus as His Son.

>>>>If so, did he impregnate his own mother?

No, Jesus is not God. God made Mary pregnant by the power of His will and pacifically for Jesus to enter this world as a boy and expeariance growing into a man. And to prove things to our ancestors.



>>>>If I place a lie in someones mind and they pass on that lie, am I culpable of lying?

Yes, you do perpetuate a lie DL, but it is not from God nor the Scriptures my friend.

>>>>Would God also be culpable for doing the same thing?

No, God is not capable of lieing. If God told a lie it would not be a lie because it would manifest as reality.


>>>>Scripture also indicates that he is limited to one begotten son.

No DL, it was God's will that He had only one begotten Son.
Or show me the sciripture you refer to please. Thanks.

>>>>This also indicates that he cannot reproduce a true blooded, so to speak, son. Or he would not have lowered himself to use a human.

Were do you suppose flesh and blood Adam and Eve came from DL, the first homosapians?..
The first homosapeans suddenly appear in the fossel records with no link to other spiecies. And why is there no link? Because they were created.

Your teachers have filled your mind with lies DL, but I intend on correcting your understanding my friend.

Tim




 
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(Premier Login Oscar50)
Moderator

Could be

May 30 2012, 11:34 AM 

Could also be that God is self limiting, or God's "will" so to speak, doesn't make sense to us.

*He could not create a heaven without Satan.

What and who is "Satan"? If you read Job, God and "Satan" were kind of cooperative with one another.

*He could not create Eden without evil in it.

Oh, you're talking about the Biblegod, and a certain interpretation of Biblegod .. okay. Nevermind. happy.gif

 
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(Login GreatestIam)

Re: Could be

May 30 2012, 3:30 PM 

They were sort of cooperating.

It was more a question of God initiating a bet with Satan.
Immoral as hell for God to cause pain and death to someone on a bet.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

 
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(Premier Login Oscar50)
Moderator

Reading the Old Testament

May 30 2012, 5:46 PM 

There are many instances of "god" acting immorally, killing far more than attributed to "satan".


 
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Doc Strange
(Login edstrange13)

The bible says that god is not only NOT omnipotent, but he's a bungling failure.

May 30 2012, 1:34 PM 

Yahweh apparently cannot stop people who are in chariots made of iron.

"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron - Judges 1:19

And lets remember his bungling and failure with the mythical Deluge. The bible says that the entire point of the flood of Noah was to rid the world of evil people.

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man, and beast, and the creeping thing and the fowls of the air for it repenteth me that I have made them." -- Genesis 6:5-7

Only man was evil, but he also killed all the animals? And all the infants were evil, too? Obviously this Yahweh guy was an idiot. Thank goodness he doesn't exist.

Anywho...

We have two possible outcomes of the supposed Deluge:

1) There are no evil people in the world.
2) Yahweh failed at something he was trying to do.

I'll let you, the forum participants, decide which is the correct answer.

-----------------------------------------------
"Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong.� -- Christopher Hitchens

 
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(Login GreatestIam)

Re: The bible says that god is not only NOT omnipotent, but he's a bungling failure.

May 30 2012, 3:34 PM 

I'm on your side from a moral position and see all of the bible and given religions as false.

I am a Gnostic Christian but aside from that, we are on the same page.

Regards
DL


 
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Kate
(Login kateothelamp)

another possible answer:

May 30 2012, 11:12 PM 

3) The flood story, like many other stories in the Bible, was the attempt of a primitive culture to explain natural events and why disasters happen, and an attempt to understand the nature of God based on their own culture and society.

Floods happen. Some of them are catastrophic. Many ancient cultures have flood stories; many of them revolve around torrential rains sent by displeased gods, intending to punish or wipe out mankind, and a hero who survives and is responsible for the rebirth of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

Just an aside on Judges 1:19 -- the passage doesn't say that God couldn't drive out the inhabitants of the valley, it says that Judah couldn't. The NIV translates the passage:

19 The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

The way I understand this passage is that Judah and his men waged war; they were victorious in the hill country, but defeated in the plains because the plains people were better equipped. God doesn't take sides in a war because every person in the world is created by God and God loves us all, and hates that we kill each other. The idea that God was on their side when they killed other people, destroyed cities, and stole land and property is a completely man-made idea. That violates several of the commandments -- thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet things that belong to your neighbor. JMHO, Bible literalists will not agree.






 
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Arthur Dent
(no login)

I wonder also if the bible was an attempt by a primitive culture

June 1 2012, 2:15 AM 

to explain life?

and other things in general, of which they had no idea?


 
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Kate
(Login kateothelamp)

I think a lot of it is exactly that..

June 1 2012, 3:16 AM 

But keep in mind Art, the Bible isn't really one book -- it's a library, written by many different authors, spanning over thousands of years. There are bits and pieces of history, law, biographies, war records, parables, poetry, philosophy, prophecy, religion -- there's even a romance novel with some mild erotica thrown in for good measure. As with any ancient writings, you have to read it through the perspective of the culture and society of the authors. In their eyes, history belongs to the victors. If they waged war on their enemies and won, then God was on their side. Better yet -- God commanded them to attack those evil people, kill or enslave them, rape their women, steal their land and everything they owned. Yeah, God wanted them to do that...conveniently, they forgot that was against the laws God had already given them: don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery, don't covet things that don't belong to you.

There are a lot of good and wonderful things in the Bible, but you need to read it with your eyes open. A lot of people believe it is a magical, perfect book, literal, infallible, and inerrant. Some get to the point that they almost see the Bible as some sort of physical manifestation of God, and they have turned it into an idol to worship. I can't and won't worship a book -- especially when, IMO, there are many things in it that are clearly wrong and clearly immoral.

 
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JVH say
(Login JVH)

So called ecclesial books

June 2 2012, 1:03 AM 

 

... tale about cosmology, anthropology, ontology, philosophy and so on with a lot of "opinions" in between - and it's the latter all the ruckus is about

 

propositions that imply their own negation are necessarily false whereas propositions implied by their own negation are necessarily true




rejected and denied by many, accepted and embraced by few : falsifiability
- it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
as the maxim demands; truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true
everything else ... mere BS -

New!! Improved!! Now With CDEH-Formula!!
[linked image]

CD: short for inevitability

 
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JVH say
(Login JVH)

God destroying mankind and nature because he wanted to eradicate wickedness?

June 2 2012, 12:59 AM 

 

That wasn't really succesful indeed, was it now? But that is God for you, one failure after another. How human.

 

ositions that imply their own negation are necessarily false whereas propositions implied by their own negation are necessarily true




rejected and denied by many, accepted and embraced by few : falsifiability
- it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
as the maxim demands; truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true
everything else ... mere BS -

New!! Improved!! Now With CDEH-Formula!!
[linked image]

CD: short for inevitability

 
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