With Yorkshire facing another almost certain defeat it's worth considering how Yorkshire got themselves into such a pickle, in what is now turning out to be a Titanic-inspired season.

Was it our string of early season injuries? Did the Rafiq fiasco break the team's fragile morale? Is it our incompetent opening batsmen, who apparently are being outperformed by the tail enders? Is it the non-existent leadership of our supposedly talismanic captain? Is it tactical issues or the fact we often seem to field the wrong combination of players?

In my opinion, the most crucial error was signing on Naved. We should never have taken a chance on an overseas player coming off such an horrific injury. There were better options, and we took a huge chance with a player who had been hugely over-bowled by Sussex, and was damaged goods.

Without a healthy, effective O/S player we were never going to be really competitive, in a tight division.

It really does all go back to management, doesn't it?

Your thoughts?

I think it is still too early to be writing Yorkshire off. If Naved's injury is a niggle and he gets back soon, AND if McGrath hasn't buggered up his knee, we could yet force our way back into contention in a division which has no really outstanding teams.

However, if Naved and McGrath are out for significant amounts of time, we will need to concentrate our efforts on avoiding demotion versus winning the Championship.

Besides, if Naved is knackered (and I fear he might be), management would surely try to add a stand in O/S player. Not to do so would risk demotion, and as you suggested in another post, demotion would probably have a knock-on effect and lead to a drop in 2009 memberships and attendances.

I'm with Alex - let's not be too quick to write us off - we haven't even lost this game yet.
If we do need a replacement overseas player - which is by no means certain - would it be worth looking around for a quality opening batsman? I don't know who's available but what about someone like Phil Jacques..

Does anyone have any actual facts on the effects of relegation?

For example, when Yorkshire were in division two for three years, did the membership drop? Were attendance figures at Championship games any lower?

Is there less sponsorship?

I wonder if it's mainly a psychological thing - teams just don't like being at the lower level.

If a division one county offered Ricky Ponting £50k to play a season for them and a division two county offered him £70k, which one would he go to?

1) Muddled thinking with inconsistant team selections - certainly Somerset (although we won), Surrey (but managed to draw) and Kent. eg does MM prefer Patterson, Shazad or Kruis, it's impossible to tell from the seemingly randon selections at different times of the season.

2) The continual selection of bowlers who are not match fit (Naved and Kruis)

3) Failure by Moxon to support/coach/mentor Rashid - delicate flower, look after him. He's one of our few match winners, without Naved he's our only match winning bowler.

4) The skipper being unable to contribute and therefore losing interest - classic case Durham at Leeds - this generated itself to the team when fielding. Related to this is the tendancy to let games drift waiting for the 2nd new ball. We regularly try to kill the dozen or so overs before the 2nd new ball, all that happens is that we surrender the inititivate and then nothing happens with the new ball! Durham at home again.

5) Moxons failure to address the problems with Goughs availability - should have acted decisively and split the captaincy into a 'one day' captain (Gough) and a first class captain (Mags?)

6) The failure of Moxon to move the players on from the 'Rafiq' issue. Players have dwelled on this and let it affected their performances. You have to play the present, not the past.

7) No sense of stratagy in our play - we just don't seem to plan. We are a very very predictable team in the field. We have no drive about us - think about Surrey with Hollioake or Warks with Reeve, they drove their men forwards.

8) No plan to help struggling players recover their form - does MM need to b*****k them or put his arm around them? I don't know but he needs to do something. Rest or nets?

Solution:

How many points to avoid relegation? Where are they coming from? (The 3 Scarboro games are massive). Win at Scarboro plus some high scoring draws.

Decide on the 'best team' and get them into the best possible frame of mind either by resting or netting. Make them believe, get some fight into them.

Assuming fitnness; Mags and Rudolph have to bat 3 and 4 - the're our best players by miles. Gale has done well at 5 - give him confidence and reassurance - tell him he's there for the season. Brophy, Ras and Bres are our best 6,7 and 8 and Hoggy our best new ball bowler, so that's 7 of the 11 picked. Naved should play - whose better? Need two spinners at least at Scarboro and OT so play Wainwright who can bat. White and Taylor to open.

If Mags is out or Gale loses any more form - play Lyth.
If Naved is out have to play Shadzed with Patterson as back up.

Forget the Pro 40, MM get hands on, get a captain whose in charge and get some clarity to what we're doing.

End of sermon!

call to drop Adam Lyth, who is one of the few players to have shown a bit of form in the last few weeks!!

I broadly agree with Sid's selection options, however I would not drop Lyth; he must play instead of Taylor unless his form drops away significantly. I have doubts about Naved on several levels - fitness;commitment;heart - and so I would opt for Shahzad if fit, with Patterson ready in support. Like Sid I think Craig White has a role to play before the end of the season but so also should Vaughan ,after the end of the test series. His impact in one or two of the Scarborough games could be crucial. Let's hope England let him play. As for Gough; his contribution now should be in the one-day competition and McGrath should be gven the captaincy of the champiuonship side.

I'm very worried about our ability to stay in division one. The batting rather more than the bowling is very fragile; but neither seems to be more fragile than the team's morale. Moxon and the back room staff have a big job ahead; my personal judgement of the Moxon tenancy will depend on the next two months. I fear the worst.

It does really look like the Tykes have fallen off the cliff. Its not just that we are losing, but the sad, almost inevitable manner we are getting thrashed. We are simply not competitive at the moment, but who is going to step up and rally the team? Darren Gough? Martyn Moxon? Jacques Rudolph? Where's the leadership? Where's the Yorkshire pride?

Lyth should be a definate pick for the Scarborough games. Apart from showing he has the talent to make it as a first class batsman, he knows the ground well and I believe he scored a 100 there for England U19s last season.

We need to stick with Lyth, at the moment he is our outstanding batsman. If any one has to go it must be Gale on current form. Top 5 if all available and fit, Taylor, Vaughan, Mags, Rudolph, Lyth. Taylor needs a long run in the team for MM to decide just how good or bad he is, after all he did sign him so he now needs to back him by playing him. MM may find out now that Taylor is not good enough and if so he needs to admit he was wrong.

It's worth looking at who has been getting the job done and who hasn't over our recent three-match Championship swoon. These are the top order batsmen who are expected to perform when we need them the most:

Brophy: 43, 18, 0, 51, 18, 23 (25.50)
Gale: 33, 32, 10, 36, 4, 0 (19.17)
Lyth: 40, 80, 50, 8, 22, 85* so far (57.00)
McGrath: 15, 2, 144, 25 (46.5)
Rudolph: 11, 3, 129, 47, 19, 0 (34.83)

To be honest my earlier post wasn't a call for Lyth to be dropped. When we debated his inclusion previously I called for him to be picked ahead of Gale and I still think he's better than Gale. My team didn't include him as our opening slots are the batting problem and I don't see him there. On reflection I'd probably play him in front of Gale.

If Mags is out any length of time then obviously Lyth fills that spot and bats 3.

However our problems are far more significant than whether or not Lyth makes the team. Overall we need clarity of thought not muddled inconsistant thinking.

PS - If Vaughans available he plays in front of Taylor.

on the basis of a couple of average matches would be pretty erratic selection. He's done enough all season to be allowed a little leeway. Lyth can open. After all, batting at 3, HE IS OPENING.