As usual Yorks are showing exactly what they think of people who attend county games. When the rebuilding work was announced it was obvious that the North West Stand (under the bulding works) would be closed. This will cause 'problems' in the North East stand as people move over ... to be behind the bowler's arm.
BUT its now been decided that for the Durham game on May 13th the North East stand will also be shut for the erecting of the new scoreboard. As a result there's nowhere to sit behind the bowler's arm at the Kirkstall Lane end.
Yes this is a Wednesday so there wont be that many there .. but this doesn't explain why the job cant be done in the previous week when there's no cricket .... or between the 14th & 21stwhen again there's no one there.
Agree, as usual, no consideration shown for CC supporters and YCC members. But again, as usual, all wil be ok for the International match and the once a year punters. The article itself is a bit misleading, it states there will be disruption all summer, then goes on to say that all will be ok by the 21st. A year or 1 month of disruption, for what, to build a pavilion that members will not be allowed to sit in. No scoreboard either for all the supporters who have to move to the grandstand as the only scoreboard they can see from there will have dissapeared. A very dissapointing state of affairs after being told at the winter members meetings that there would be no disruption of matches for the building works. We have a year of inconvenience to build the new pavilion that we can not then use.
I really must take issue with these posts! How can we as a club build a 5-storey new Pavilion without any disruption? There will be building work taking place for over 14 months which involves integrating (what were) the lower Wintershed seats. As such there is bound to be disruption - but let's not forget that we are developing our ground for the future to ensure we retain Category A Status and to provide much improved players' facilities (currently we use the rugby changing rooms) and state of the art media facilities (previously we placed TV broadcasters in what can only be described as sheds!). The new Pavilion was never ever going to be a members' stand - we have already provided this in the East Stand, including one of the best members' lounges in the country - The Long Room.
With reference to the other comments please note the following:
1. Parts of the upper North-East Stand and the majority of the lower North East Stand will be open for all matches apart from one - 13th May vs Durham when we will have to close the area in front of the scoreboard to install a 102 sq m replay screen, the largest in the country in any professional sport. This will provide members with a much improved scoreboard (as complaints are regularly received regarding the current one!)as well as replays and special features. We could not do it the previous week as we have only managed to sort out funding recently which in the current climate is not an easy thing to do!
2. We are re-opening over half of the West Stand to compensate for the fact that we are having to close the Kirkstall Lane sections. The West Stand was closed for Championship matches during the last 2 seasons.
3. There are still seats available behind the bowlers' arm in the Main (Rugby) Stand if people are prepared to walk around the ground to get to them.
4. I attended all of the winter roadshows (except one) personally and never once said that there would be no disruption during the season. I stated that we would try to minimise disruption which is exactly what we are doing.
5. Finally we have never said that members would not be allowed to sit in the Pavilion - the lower tier seats will be available to members for all games. The upper tier seats will be available if members wish to trade up to debenture seats or premium memberships. Following feedback at the AGM we are also looking at how we can make a limited amount of upper tier seats available for county games on a first come, first served basis in return for an upgrade fee. Still work to do here overthe next few months.
Please bear with us whilst we endeavour to improve the Headingley Carnegie facilities even further. We have raised £21m for this project in difficult economic times and are committed to the project. There can be no long-term gain without some pain but it will be worth it in the long run.
Excellent comments, Mr. Regan. Thanks for clearing up these misconceptions and rumours. You remain a breath of fresh air, and openness as far as cricket management goes.
Sorry but my main point hasn't been answered ... we expected the area under the new pavilion to be closed BUT not the North East stand. As I asked why couldn't the installation be made when Yorks aren't at home. I'll also be interested to see if the screen is actually used for county games , especially as we don't appear on Sky too often..
Mr Regan suggests we move to the Football Stand ... if I wanted to sit in a fridge I'd move to Durham.
I've also a feeling that our usual 'wit & raprtee' (or schoolgirl cackling as Geoff Cope aptly described it) wouldn't exactly be welcome.
Firstly fair play to the Chief Exe for being prepared to post a response on a fans forum at 9:40pm on a Tuesday night.
On some of the matters I side with the Chief Exe, mainly the disruption does appear to being kept to a minimum. However I struggle with the management on the following:
The pavilion will afford the best views of Headingley but as a member I won't be allowed into the good seats. As a compensation if I'm prepared to pay a little more they'll let me in. The county watching members at mid week games are the loyalist of the loyal, but without paying out yet more, we ain't coming in! Banks of empty seats, whilest we the excluded look on. Of course we were good for a few donations to get the thing built in the first place via the Yorkshire Pride lottery or legends DVD sales but don't dare ask about getting though the door to watch any cricket.
Agree about the members lounge in the East stand, but it offers a lousy view of the cricket.
The mentioned replay board - I assume it won't be used for county matches? Again county members upset for the benefit of once a year top dollar paying test match watchers.
Dpressed - The North East Stand is right next to the building site which is why a section of it will be closed (but NOT all of it!). Health and Safety guidelines mean that we cannot have people sitting right next to an area where cranes, diggers and other machinery are being used. There will be building work taking place whilst matches are in progress - Martyn Moxon and the coaches have agreed this to keep us on programme for completion - this is what happened at The Brit Oval in 2004/05 too.
sid - Please name me another international sports venue where all seats are the same price irrespective of the location in the ground? I have already said that the lower tier will be accessible without any extra payment whilst the upper tier will have some seats made available for an upgrade fee. However, if we simply allow everyone to sit up there for no extra fee how do you propose that we sell debenture seats or premium memberships? We need this money to make our contribution to the captial cost of the building (£1.5m over the next 4 years, plus a further £1.5m over 20 years). We cannot build it with fresh air! As my Dad says, you don't get 'owt for nowt' these days.
We are looking to use the replay screen for county matches - watch this space! (or even THAT space!)
in my experience members are allowed to sit in the pavilion all over the country without paying extra for the priviledge. even at lords members have freedom of choice (even if there is an unseemly rush when the gates open). i believe for run of the mill county games extra charges should not be levied.
This message has been edited by marsker on Apr 8, 2009 9:31 AM
As I'm obviously not making my self clear (sorry) I'll have one last go.
My main question is 'why is the North East stand is being closed to errect a screen?'. This can't take more than a few days so I'd have expected the work to be scheduled when we weren't playing a game.
The closure of the area under the new pavilion is regreatable but totally expected .. remember we went through this situation over a number of seasons whilst the ground was being rebuilt. During the West Stand work we actually had digger stopped play in one game !!
During the Western Terrace rebuild the Bowling Green was closed for one game (I think against S(l)urrey) to errect the 'temporary executive boxes' for a test.... as a result we were like sardines in the remaining seats.
Most County grounds ONLY have the pavillion for members - we have the east stand and all the facillities therein.
I think Stewart has made his point eloquently and forcefully. We already have the best member's facillities of any County ground I've ever visited - matched only by Chester Le Street possibly. There is plenty of seating behind the bowler in the old lower wintershed and the North East stand, or the football stand end.
I'm afraid it's simply short sighted to complain about temporary inconvenience caused while the work is taking place. In these health and saftey conscious days you cannot have people seated anywhere near ongoing work - surely everyone realises that. Surely it's better to press on and get the work done rather than phase it around people's preferences and have a building scheme that lasts for years and costs thousands more than necessary...
I also don't think we've given anything like enough credit for the new museum in the East Stand which is going to be an excellent facillity and has been achieved at no cost to the club. Something which I think the club has needed for many years.
If you're still reading this thread Stewart, can you tell us if there are any plans to develop the "old" pavillion which seems to me to be the most underused part of the ground.Do we own that building? I've never really understood how that building operates? Could some of that seating be made available to members on a regular basis? I've always wondered what the view must be like from some of the higher seats.
Sid - I agree with you except that I don't think that the extra fee for sitting in our new pavilion will will be a low fee. It may be the same as or more than a debenture but on a daily basis or nobody would take up a debenture. I wonder how many have? I expect that at county championship matches we will watch rows of empty seats.
I don't recall anyone at the club saying that the new pavilion was never going to be a members' stand when it was taking our money although I always suspected it.
I agree that the East Stand is poor situation from which to watch cricket, I sat in it once after being driven from my usual position by frostbite.
Mr Regan - one more point, do you think that you could ask the announcer to refer to the Football Stand and not the Rugby Stand. The Football Stand has always been the traditional description. Both Rugby League and Rugby Football Union are two of many types of football.
You say move across to the North East stand (upper & lower) .... this exactly is what we'll do. Yes there will be a few 'difficulties' & yes we'll moan ... but we're Yorkshire folk so what do you expect. But then its obvious that this is going to happen when there's rebuilding work behind out 'usual' seating area. If this closure had been the only 'news' my original post would have been along the lines of 'Building In Process .... Again' .. warning North East stand inhabitants that they are going to be invaded.
What isn't obvious is why the 'alternative' seating is also to be closed for the errection of a screen. This will result in everyone who watches cricket from the north end of the ground being displaced. I think its a valid question to ask
why this work isn't being done when we aren't playing.
I know the closure is only for one day ..... but ....
Sorry DP - I think I was writing my message as you were posting yours! I wasn't trying to reply to your points as i hadn't actually read them at the time i was writing - apologies for any confusion!
I think you've answered your point with your last sentence - you're being inconvenienced - which is regrettable - but it is only for one day....
And you never know, it might be raining anyway! Who knows perhaps you and your cronies might find a whole new area of the ground to colonise...
I don't mean to sound flippant because i know you've sat there for years - but in the grand scheme of the long term prosperity of our club - surely it's a small price that's well worth paying....
There can't be too many county officials who have the interest or initiative to communicate with and engage their club's fans through supporter's message boards. We are so very lucky to have such an intelligent, engaged, aware, and well-spoken man at the helm of our club.
Thanks Mr Stewart for potting forth the club's views on this issue.
I don't think we should whinge about lack of access to new privileged seating. I'm sure for most county games we can all squeeze into the other 15,000 seats without too much effort.
There's nothing new in this of course. Both Lord's and the Oval have banks of seating that are reserved for debenture holders. In both cases the seats are not available to members during county games.
In one of his previous posts the chief exe seemed to challenge me on two points - firstly name a venue with a single pricing policy and secondly the idea that 'you get nowt for now't'.
In terms of 'getting nothing for nothing' the last time I looked option 4 members were actually paying in the region of £160 pa, so asking for admission to the good new pavilion seats when YCCC are playing is not exactly asking for something for nothing.
The last time I visited Old Trafford, Trent Bridge and Lords, I paid my admission and could sit anywhere including the best pavilion seats. I accept I've not been to Lords for a few years but on my last visit I sat in the Long room and then with the eggyolk yellow tie wearers on the front seats. In the main cricket clubs offer their best facilities to their members, and don't expect them to join 'exclusive' clubs to access these areas.
I can fully see why SR is so welded to upgrading the ground in order tomaintain test match status but I'm much more interested in watching YCCC in a ground where I'm valued. I've previously critised the club for becoming Leeds centric and it's now rapidly becoming test match obssessed, with the county watching member treated as a 2nd class citizen.
Sorry Sid but on this occasion I have to disagree with you. I think the thing that most people are missing in this thread is that for the club to survive as a going concern, we have to upgrade Headingley and host the best international matches. Sadly this takes money, and if that means not sitting at the top of the new pavillion without paying, so much the better. I know it wouldn't be a true Yorkshire site if we didn't have a moan about things, but on this occasion Mr Regan is quite right. I think the club should be applauded for getting the funding together for the improvements at this time. Its not many years ago that the finances were so bad that we nearly lost the club for good. I also think current membership is actually exceptional value; try season tickets for other sports! If we want Yorkshire cricket to be successful, we need to recognise the need for sound finances. Would you rather have the option to pay a bit more for a top tier seat, or the cost of all memberships to rise? The club have a lot of tough choices and can not keep everyone happy but on the whole I think Mr Regan and his team are doing a good job in far from easy circumstances
East Riding Tyke - it isn't a little more, the cost of a debenture is substantially more. We don't know how much a one-off seat will cost and unless it is quite low, I still think that for county championship matches we are going to be looking at rows of empty seats.
I'm not opposing the redevelopment and as I've said earlier feel that the club are being reasonable in there efforts to minimise disruption. However I still feel there are some debates worth having.
Stewart Regan seems to present the following logic to members. All efforts must be made to maintain test match status. This is essential for the continued success of the club. I would challenge this on the assumption that what members want is to watch a successful team in decent facilities. A very high proportion of members nolonger attend the test for many reasons, but lots I've spoken with simply feel priced out.
Although we've have test match status, and have had for a very long time, we don't have a successful side (1 championship in 40 years, 2 Lords finals in almost 40 years, 1 'one day' league success ever and no appearances at 20/20 finals day). Looking at other 'test status counties - Lances haven't won the championship since the 20's, Warks, Notts and Surrey have had some success but no more so than many other counties. Test status doesn't appear to improve your team. I prefer to look at Sussex and maybe Somerset (accepting the Ciderboys lack of CC success) as possible models.
The arguement that members benefit from better facilities if your team is 'test staus' falls down in the case of the new Pavilion as we won't be allowed to use them (or at least the good seats).
If Yorks wants to maintain there current business development, I'm fine with that and understand there reasons, but don't somehow present this as benefical to the majority of members and ask us to pay for the redevelopment (the Pride Lottery). Likewise don't mess up and than expect the members to bail things out.
I am with you on this Sid. the long standing members who have supported the club through thick and thin (mainly very thin of late) are being elbowed out of the way to provide a wonderful pavilion for the debenture holders and once-a-year cricket watchers (I will not call them "cricket" supporters as they invariably are not).
Yes, I can understand the financial need for test matches to be held at Headingley, but we are not talking about test matches now. For the run of the mill CC matches there will be rows and rows of empty unused seats. So why not let members sit in those seats at no extra charge, or even a very small nominal charge, for county matches. I can not see the logic of having a massive pavilion that will not be used for spectators for 97% of the time, after all there is only 6 days, at the most, of international cricket per season. Why not a new membership category, if finances are that important, an extra tenner a year to use the pavilion unused seats just for the county matches, or better still reward the loyal members by letting them into the pavilion free of charge as a reward for their support over many years. If all the debenture seats are sold for every match including a mid week day of a CC then fair enough the members will have to sit elsewhere, but that is not going to happen. The seats will be there so surely the best policy is to use them.
sid: "....If Yorks wants to maintain there current business development, I'm fine with that and understand there reasons, but don't somehow present this as benefical to the majority of members and ask us to pay for the redevelopment (the Pride Lottery). Likewise don't mess up and than expect the members to bail things out."
If... the club have fantastic playing facilities that are the envy of every other club and which keep our squad highly motivated.
If... the club have media facilities that mean Botham, Gower and friends do not publicly criticise us live on Sky whilst broadcasting to 500m viewers.
If... the club have some of the best debenture seats in the country which generate 'new' money which we have never been able to make before (especially when we did not own the ground) which allow us to keep more YCCC players on the payroll and pay salaries more in keeping with our stature as a leading cricket club.
If... the club can build partnerships with Leeds Met, Yorkshire Forward, Sport England, HSBC, Leeds City Council which can bring in £18m (which does not have to be repaid) meaning we can build this Pavilion despite having current debt on our balance sheet of £20m
....then how is this not beneficial to the members? Please wake up and smell the coffee! The Yorkshire Pride Lottery has not yet managed to generate £50,000 because many members keep cancelling subscriptions after just one season I'm afraid. Are you still a member of the lottery sid?
stuart acton: "... So why not let members sit in those seats at no extra charge, or even a very small nominal charge, for county matches."
Please read my previous posts stuart.
dpressed: "....What isn't obvious is why the 'alternative' seating is also to be closed for the errection of a screen. This will result in everyone who watches cricket from the north end of the ground being displaced. I think its a valid question to ask
why this work isn't being done when we aren't playing.
I know the closure is only for one day ..... but ...."
The work is commencing on 5th May until the 18th May. We have deliberately chosen this period because we need almost two weeks to take out the old scoreboard and install a 102 sq m replay screen. This chosen period only affects one cricket day. Had we done it any other time we would have affected more days of cricket thus generating even more criticism! We have been unable to do it sooner because we did not have the £500k required to place the order. In addition, the LED panels are currently being made by the supplier and then they will be on a boat to the UK, arriving on 4th May.
I know the webcam is temperamental at present but I can assure everyone that the outfield looks sensational. As I left last night, Andy Fogarty, our head groundsman was stood leaning over the railings whilst dozens of new irrigation sprinklers were watering his pride and joy! Previously he would have been out there with a hosepipe for hours. We have a 1st X1 versus 2nd X1 match on 15th April to test out the surface but we are all very confident that the match on 26th April versus Sussex will be a success - let's hope we can start with a win!
I find myself in the Guardian reader's predicament of being able to see everybody's point of view here, but could I just thank Stewart Regan for taking the time to answer the supporters' arguments.
Despite the odd hiccup last year, most of us can remember a time when the club was managed much worse than it is now - indeed, a time when it was barely managed at all.
I have cousins who were effectively driven away from the game a couple of seasons ago when their membership option disappeared and I'm really sad about that, so I know that changes of this kind could sometimes be thought about more carefully.
But as for anyone being "rewarded" for standing by our clubs "through thick and thin", then I think the answer is that no management on earth is going to find that easy, for the very obvious reason that county cricket on its own as a professional game is commercially unviable.
I obviously owe Steart an apology ... so sorry for denigrating 'the managemwnt'. My excuse is that I just couldn't imagine that it would take longer than a week to replace a scoreboard .... to be cheeky can I ask if you've got G.Boycott & J.Sayers in charge of the work?
It speaks volumes for the management of our club and Stewart Regan in particular that he is bothered to take the time to come to this site to explain what is going on. I'm pretty sure that we will not always agree on everything, but two things are clear:-
1. Stewart Regan and his management team really do care what we ordinary members think
2. We all love this club and want the best for it. As I get older it strikes me that for many of us, Yorkshire cricket is a real "passion." Because we care so much, we have strong opinions. However at heart we all want the best for Yorkshire cricket.
Here's to a very successful, entertaining and happy summer!May the sun shine on us all wherever we sit, and whether we can see a scoreboard or not!!!!