I spoke to him last Saturday, as in over a week ago, and he still hadnt received his work permit, explained Moxon.
I told him to ring as soon as he received any news and I havent heard anything.
At the moment he hasnt got the necessary paperwork. I am sure he will get a work permit at some point, I just dont know when.
That is the frustration. I dont know whats going on or who is at fault. Its difficult to know.
He had a meeting with the authorities on March 31 with a view to the work permit being issued. We are now two weeks since he had that meeting. "
I know it might be a different case but there have been major problems in Rugby League with players having to wait months before they get a permit decision.
Bad news this - it appears our main strike bowler and overseas player will miss the start of the season. If it takes several weeks to get the work permits done etc then why was the process not started 3 or 4 months ago. After the Rafiq affair we were told that steps would be taken to avoid any re-occurance of any type of registration issues. It may not be YCC`s fault on this occasion but if the process had been started earlier any delays or hiccups could have been overcome in time for the season start.
This message has been edited by stu789 on Apr 15, 2009 10:10 AM
Let's be honest, I can't see it's much of a loss. The club saves some money and we get to use Patterson and Shahzad alongside Kruis - who always gives his best - and the mighty Hogster.
If the club wants to we can bring in a specialist overseas "star" for the 20/20 nonsense but otherwise I wouldn't bother with a replacement..
Whatever happened to the "delegation of concerned MPs" to see the Home Secretary? Ironically, the old school tie brigade would have had this sorted out in the time it takes to make two phone calls to an Old Etonian.
but to give balance to your point Steve, neither did the relevant people in the current Government so the old boy/school tie network can apply just as effectively whatever school you went to and is not just relevant to Eton adn the like.
Perhaps Mr Graves connections from Costcutter may give him a link to Lord Mclaurin (ex Tesco) but not sure there are any ex Sainsbury/Asda/Morrisons etc useful contacts in the powers that be at the moment either
The Rana signing seems to just lurch from one farcical crisis to another. If he actually played well when he got on the field I wouldnt mind, but he was reasonably dissapointing last year.
I still think (not 100% sure why) he would be an improvement to the team (his lower order batting is half decent). But the more I read about Yorkshire and Rana the more I prefer the idea of Patterson and Shahzad playing with Hoggard, Kruis and Bresnan.
I think you can be reasonably dissapointing, in the same way you can be reasonably successful.
He wasn't an abject miserbale disaster last year, he did have his moments. But I agree it may be a slightly cumbersome way of expressing it.
As an aside, is anyone else frustrated that we're not having any Yorkshire action follow despite other counties already playing? I'm watching the Warwicks Somerset game on Cricinfo just to have some cricket to follow.
Why does it always seem to be us alone who has problems like this? We signed Rana a year too long in the first place but once we knew he had to come back again the least we could do was make sure he was legally allowed to.
Obviously the player must take some responsibility but the club has to as well, if only to remind him to do the paperwork. All winter I get the feeling Yorkshire have been silently telling him that ''we're not bothered if you come or not.'' I'm not too bothered if he comes or not but unless we have a major rabbit to pull out of the hat by way of replacement then he'd be better off here than there.
I wasn't being sarcastic - I just didn't know if it sounded right.... You can be sadly disappointing or unfortunately disappointing but is it logical to be disappointing to a reasonable degree?
Perhaps I should find something more important to think about!!!!!
I'm hugely frustrated that we aren't playing - although Stuart's Fantasy league has got me following the fortunes of certain players - come on Kadeer Ali - even if their scores don't count.....
Interesting that no-one is either surprised or excited by Flower's appointment. After a hugely successful tour...
"Why does it always seem to be us alone who has problems like this?"
It's not 'us alone'. Several teams have had problems at the start of this year with visas for their overseas players. These include Wavell Hinds and Chris Rogers at Derby, Danish Kaneria at Essex, Iain O'Brien at Leics, Grant Elliott at Surrey and Jeetan Patel at Warks
No great loss in my opinion. When he's available, he'll no doubt get picked, so Patterson and Shahzad will get their chance to shine in the early season. Apart from one great spell at Scarborough last year, what did he achieve? Patterson's average was much better.
To Joe's point (are we disappointed that the Tykes are not playing this week?) No. Both 1st division matches have lost time to the weather, and are therefore more likely to be draws (although Worcs are now all out for just 132).
No match during the first week, then away during the second. With a new outfield that needs to settle in, that seems like good planning to me.
This message has been edited by YoungClogger on Apr 15, 2009 10:38 PM
it seems the authorities are making life very difficult for people to get visas and work permits. they are putting obstacles in the way and even players who have beeen coming for years are being blocked. even the likes of danesh kaneria have failed so far. league clubs trying to engage pros are having terrible problems. i have heard the way round it is to enroll the player on an ecb coaching course.
that Imzamam seemed to be able to get a visa at the drop of a hat, despite being a member of an Islamist organization that the authorities seem to regard as "suspicious" (I take my information here from an article in the London Review of Books last year).
The time delay for obtaining visas and work permits has increased this year on previous years, but as all the other clubs have had well documented and reported problems in the last 6 months, why did Yorkshire not foresee similar problems with Naved and started the process 3 or 4 months ago. If the process takes that long, why wait until 2 weeks before the season starts to put the application in. Naved, would be a very useful addition to our 1 day side and could make the difference between qualifying for the QF`s and not, so lets hope it is sorted out PDQ.
It's proving virtually impossible to get visas for dance companies at the moment. I guess it 's the price you pay for increased global security - but isn't it worth suggesting that increased contact between faiths and cultures makes the World a safer place rather than a more dangerous one....?
Baby and bathwater springs to mind.
Just because Rana isn't good enough (a quite different failure of judgement) doesn't make it acceptable that he isn't available, from the start of the season for which he is being remunerated, due to lack of administrative foresight. It never ceases to amaze me the latitude given to people who are well paid to run what is, after all, a professional sport.
Great news that the deadline has been given of may 1st. We need an overseas strike bowler, as yesterday showed when they went from 82-4 to 303-7. We were just lacking a good 3rd or 4 choice bowler, if we had had a good overseas strike bowler we would have bowled them out for 250 tops. Naved would be ideal coming on after Hoggy and Bresnan, but at least we will know if we are getting him or not by 1st of May, it then gives us the option to sign someone else up and we save money on his contract costs.
Have the rights and wrongs of Rana's non-arrival been decided then? Was it his own fault for not getting a work permit or was it Yorkshire's fault for signing him without knowing, or making sure he had the necassary paperwork? Will his original contract be paid in full or will it be adjusted accordingly? If it happens to be cancelled, how much, if anything will it cost to cancel? Have we a replacement lined up? If so, does he have a work permit? Will his availability be checked before he is due to arrive?
The work permit problem in football seems to be sorted before contracts are signed. No idea how the work permit situation actually works but if Yorkshire and Rana had a two year agreement which we have always been led to believe is the case then surely knowledge that a work permit for that length of time would be in place? Can't help thinking that Yorkshire might be just as negligent and maybe even more so than Rana.
how on earth can you give someone an ultimatum over a work permit when it is held up by red tape and is completely out of the players control. i can see a massive court case coming claiming constructive dissmissal.
Does anyone actually know if Rana really wants to come back and play for us this season?
I have not seen many quotes from him about being frustrated, disappointed etc about the red tape holding up his return - is he bothered?
Of course some of the Yorkshire quotes have to be taken with a pinch of salt as technically we have to back him and defend him whilst he is contracted to play for us. If we slagged him off in public it would be unprofessional so I think the quotes about us wanting him back and missing him are just about the only thing Moxon and the like could say.
I think there'll be some huffing and puffing and face saving but we'll end up paying some sort of token compensation in the end. I'm sure Rana won't play for us this season - clearly too many bridges have already been burnt to make for a comfortable working relationship.
I just hope we don't go out and sign another nondescript overpaid overseas player - a big name box office draw for 20/20 wouldn't do any harm - but otherwise let's stick with what we've got!
One of the reasons I'd like to see Rana walk the plank and the club bring in a new face, is that we seem to have developed a "loser's complex" when it comes to the 4-day game. One or two bad sessions or the loss of a couple of wickets and we almost always wilt. No one ever really seems to be able to step up with a REALLY big innings or a great spell of bowling- WHEN WE NEED IT! We almost always look we are going to lose. We are so inconsistent...one good session, three bad ones. and so on.
An experienced strike bowler with no previous attachment to the club might bring a "winner's attitude" to the club. I'm just not sure the team believes in itself at the moment - and with several players with one eye on getting back into Test cricket, I don't feel we are always as focused AS A TEAM on winning Championship matches as we should be.
For example, it is obvious to all and sundry that Vaughan should be opening but HE WANTS to bat at third to enhance his Test chances, so the club bows to HIS wishes. That hurts the team since it forces Rudolph, our only natural stroke player, to face the new ball when he should be coming in at 4th and beating a well-used ball to the boundary.
We aren't really a Team at the moment, so bringing a very high caliber overseas bowler to replace Rana might be one of the keys to getting this team back in the winning mentality, and believing in itself again.
I sincerely hope the club replaces Rana Naved. He's been a big negative distraction and a poor performer. It's time he moved on.
agree wholehearedly Alan with the exception that if a new captain in Mags and a director of cricket in Moxon are unable to bring a winning mentality, team spirit and proper decision making then why are we employing them in this capacity?
1. Dismiss Rana?
2. Tell Vaughan that he is opening when he plays for Yorkshire?
3. Bat Rashid at 6, Brophy at 7 and Bresnan at 8?
4. Inform Sayers that he has a specified number of innings in which to play shots appropriately?
5. Select a balanced side on merit which would mean the inclusion of Lyth and Wainwright?
6. Re-assess the contributions made by Moxon since his return to the club?
But it has to be said, Tony I can only assume you must hold some sort of personal grudge against Martyn because you seem to bring every subject to the same inevitable conclusion.
Martyn Moxon rescued the club form the mire of Adams' departure and restored dignity and order to the chaos that ensued. He's approachable, calm and rational, and knows more about cricket than anyone on this Forum. The one lesson of his time at Durham is that it takes four or five years to turn an ordinary team into Championship contenders - he did it for Durham and he'll do it for us. (And before anyone contradicts me it was largely Martyn's team that won the pennant last year - even if he was no longer coaching them). He developped the careers of Colingwood, Harmison and Plunkett so i think we can be confident that our young players are in safe hands..
Let's be patient and see how our season develops.
However, I feel strongly that far too many bad cricket decisions are being made in the management of YCCC; and I believe that this has been the case for the last two years.
The Director of Cricket during that time has been Moxon. So my question is: Where does the buck stop?
I think this is essential difference of opinion.
You may - of course - quibble about some of his decisions. Whether Lyth should be selected and the seemingly never ending permutations of our batting line up, but I simply cannot accept that the state of our team isn't now stronger than it was two years ago.
You rightly commend the quality of our youngsters - but don't you also see that Martyn's careful handling of these young players has greatly helped their development? In Rashid and Bresnan we have two of the very best young English qualified cricketers in the Country - with Rafiq, Wainwright, Lyth and the under-valued Gale not far behind. Of course there have been mistakes and disappoinments along the way, but YCCC is currently an awful lot stronger, more organised and better led than it was under David Byas - or have you forgotten those days?
I'm not saying we have no right to criticise, but we should also be prepaed to offer support and praise when it is deserved.
This is the first championship game of the season - how do you think it affects morale to see supporters calling for wholesale dismissals already..
Things ARE better than they were two years ago. But then, far more resources have been made available than there were then. Also, somewhere around the Autumn of 2007/Spring 2008 the YCCC Board awoke to the realization that they could not concentrate exclusively on the development of ground "Headingley Carnegie" and decided that there would have to be "investment" (and I do not mean only money, but also direction, development, retention)in the playing staff.
Moxon and Gough came in, as did Rudolph and Khan.
However, this also brought about a reversal to the previously failed mentality that pace bowlers, even second rate pace bowlers, were always preferable to spinners. And as "bowlers win matches" we should fill the team with medium pacers. This reached its nadir at Taunton last year when we went into the Championship game with three batsmen and a wicket keeper, two spinners and five "pace" bowlers (all of the medium pace right arm over variety) with McGrath in the wings.
In among this Rashid (of extreme class) managed to survive, but Lawson who had done just as much as Rashid to keep us up in 2007 was dismissed to the nether regions, where he languished and ultimately left.
Along the way we had been treated to Inzamam, Tahir, Rana and Morkel; all short term "fixes" which did not work.
Again, last season when the need was for an opening batsman of proven technical merit, McGrath was kept at 3 in the batting order and Gale who had done very well at No. 5 was made to open with Lyth. Gale duly failed, but Lyth succeeded.
When it came down to the line, Rashid and Wainwright "saved our bacon" with both bat and ball.
The upshot?
Vaughan, who has done nothing in playing terms for YCCC for 5 seasons must bat at 3. McGrath cannot bat above 3, and therefore, must bat at 4. Rudolph, who has a proven pedigree in the middle order is required to open. Bresnan who is not anything like as good a batsman as is Rashid bats at 6, with Brophy at 7 and Rashid at 8, batting with the tail. A sure way to develop a twenty-year olds batting confidence!
AND WAINWRIGHT AND LYTH DO NOT GET INTO THE TEAM.
In the current match against Durham, Rashid who with 65 Championship wickets was our leading wicket-taker last season, does not get to bowl until after Hoggard, Bresnan, Patterson, Kruis and McGrath have bowled the opposition "in". Consequently, he gets tapped around and is promptly taken off. (Not unlike what happened to Richard Dawson). Belatedly, (VERY) in Durham's second innings Rashid finally gets a serious spell and takes more wickets than anyone else, whilst producing the best economy rate.
So, whilst I accept utterly the need for calm consideration, I also know that accurate assessment of potentialities is essential.
This has been woefully absent for the last two years. It may, of course, be that Moxon has not had a "free hand" up until now. It could be that McGrath does not have a "free hand" even now.
BUT:
As Director of Cricket and Captain, they have to direct and captain in a convincing and productive way. And they must not spoil the likes of Lyth, Rashid and Wainwright.
At present, sadly, all the signs are that they are getting it wrong.
I JUST HOPE THAT I AM THE ONE WHO IS GETTING WRONG!
I can't help but notice that the club has removed any mention of the sign or get released ultimatum from the official website. Has the club lost its bottle, or has there been a settlement?
It did occur to me that the club were on very thin legal ice if rana has a contract and the work permit delays are clearly beyond his control..
Can i suggest we just steer clear of employing anyone from Sussex in the future?
I was having a quick look at the Sussex forum to get their view of yesterday's FPT and came across this thread about the process involved in getting OS players approved.
I think the club have been as fair as possible not just to Rana but also to the members, fans and other players.
if Rana was eager to join us then why has he not been at the Lahore (or wherever it is in Pakistan) relevant office putting personal pressure on the administrators to approve his paperwork for him? Does he not have an agent who should be pushing for this on his behalf?
Why has he not been tracked down by Chris Waters for an exclusive interview on how he feels as a result of the delays and risks to his contract?
If he signs up for the American IPL equivalent, then how quickly would his paperwork be done for him to play there and how much pressure would he (or his agent) be applying to get it rushed through quickly?
How come all the players in the IPL (like KP and Freddie) currently going on in South Africa managed to get signed up in February and playing in April yet Rana who already had a contract with us is still waiting in May?
I presume the South African, Indian and American authorities have laxer conditions than the UK but after Mumbai and 9/11 I would be surprised if this is the case.
All of this leads me to conclude that Rana is looking to get out of his contract with us but he wants a pay off
I'm sure DC mentioned something during the commentary along the lines of "It's nearly sorted I think he (Rana) will come back in to the side as a like for like replacement while Bresnan is with England"
I expect to hear today that he will be in the country by tomorrow, we shall see?
At Wednesday's Memebers Forum Stewart Regan announced that Rana was expected to be here by the deadline ... which got an audible groan from 'the faithful'
Why should the players be pleased? He's shown a total lack of support for his team and team mates; and he's now going to cost a more deserving player a place in the side.