a) Talking of languishing on benches, it's generally best to take a cushion to New Rd.
b) There will be cake in the Ladies' Pavilion
c) I may have to take my laptop.

Are people really suggesting two spinners for New Road?

It is in fact worth going to Worcester purely for the teas served from the Ladies Pavilion.
(There must be a joke about pavillioned in splendour but I haven't fully warmed up...)
Looking at today's forecast, is there any risk of flooding?

Worcester was John Arlott's favourite ground. It's easy to understand why.

A light shower is forecast for Wednesday, so there's every chance the Severn will burst its banks.

We are the only side that has played Worcestershire this season and not beaten them in the CC. Worcestershire have now played 5 lost 4, drawn 1 (against us) and we only took 3 wickets in 116 overs.

we have a second team winning games easily at the moment with talented youngsters performing consistently well. When some of the talented youngsters (Bairstow and Rafiq) have been given a chance in the first team they have shone.

We have a first team who have not won a CC game for over 12 months and who have ex test players clogging up most of the places (Hoggy, Bresnan, Rana, Rudolph, Vaughan, Mags) all of whom claim to have ambitions to play test matches once again. They each have the odd good 'day in the sun' but for test players you would expect much greater consistency.

Then we have the fringe players who come and go (Gale, Sayers, Kruis, Shahzad, Patterson, Wainwright), would be decent county players if the more senior pros delivered to the expected standards.

We have the best ex-England captain with an innovative mind in our ranks but we rely on someone whose captaincy has obvious limitations to anyone watching, did not want to play for us 2 years ago and has a benefit year on the side as well.

Fundamentally, our selection seems wrong - too often we get swayed by one good spell or one good innings and think someone is undroppable - too often we think in Englands interests first and adjust our selection (Vaughan at 3, rashid in ther T20 games), too often we reward a promising youngsters positive start with a spell back in the seconds, too often we pick players based on conditions that might suit them irrespective of whether they are performing well or not.

I wish everyone now would stop mentioning Taylor as an option - he has done nothing in the 2nds to justify a second team place let alone a first team recall - he is being outbatted by Root, Bairstow and Ballance and is probably holding up the development of others in the Academy with more talent and ability.

If we continue in the same vain we will continue to get the same results.

Lets be radical (although with the next game starting tomorrow it may be a bit late to do anything different) and go with the following

Vaughan (captain)
Sayers (with orders on how to adapt his game as necessary - for christs sake we have ex Yorkshire and England opening bats on the committee and as head coach to tell him how to play)
Mags (tricky to sack him as captain and then drop him as well plus with 3 seamers we need his bowling arm)
Rudolph (back to where he should bat for the benefit of the team whatever his stats say about opening)
Bairstow (preferably higher in the order so he is not left high and dry on 82 not out)
Brophy (if fit - if not Gale or Lyth or why not Root if Bairstow has shown how to step up a level so successfully?)
Bresnan (time he delivered and took on some responsibility)
Rana (i still find it hard to leave out your overseas player and he must come good soon)
Rafiq (why was he dropped?)
Wainwright (injury permitting)
Hoggard (still a class act with the new ball)

We don't need 4 seamers if we have 3 good ones - we do need 2 spinners.

We need a new batting order and a new captain and if these do not materialise we need a new coach (Grayson please?)

We need to reward success (whoever he is and how old or experienced he may or may not be) and consign failure to the 2nds or lower still.

Shahzad does not take enough wickets in the 4 day game sadly

Then we can watch Michael walk on the water....

Sorry Steve but Virgil would walk on water for 10 yards ... then break down with an injury.

TC has given us a lot to think about. I broadly agree with his post. I do have to wonder about Vaughan's fitness ... but if he is yes Michael should open AND be captain. I'd only pick Brophy if he is 100% fit. As I said in the last match thread Bairstow just looked right when he was keeping & whilst he'll probably make the odd mistake is worth his place. Gale should be sent to the 2nds & made to write out 100 (or is that 500) lines of 'I will stop laying stupid shots' every time he gets out that way.

One big disagreement is over Shahzad .... in the last match Ajmal took more wickets than Brenan & Naved ... my only worry is his fitness & at times we did wonder if Shahzad was practicing to be a contortionist when he was going through his warm up excersises.

But after a good start I think Tim looks a bit jaded. I'm not sure if he's worth a place in our starting eleven on current form...

lets hope Adil does not come back the same way from his England sojourns as well

Hopefully England will do us a favour then and pick Tim as 12th man for the summer and avoid us having to drop him

A great post TC. It should be sent along to everyone on the team and to the club's administration. McGrath and Moxon especially should read it and consider the solid logic and well-considered views.

I would suggest that if the team performs poorly against Worcestershire, major changes will be afoot, although I doubt if McGrath will step down as captain during his benefit season. But surely Moxon's position is increasingly tenuous.

For me the real problem is the bowling rather than the batting. I believe in a balanced attack featuring two spinners and three seamers (ideally, one bowling left arm and one being genuinely quick).
Yorkshire is currently blessed with three seriously talented young spinners (though we'll probably see less and less of Rashid as time goes on). I'd like to know what expert guidance these boys are getting from within the county coaching team.
More pressingly, the seamers lack variety and pace. Many of them are also rather long in the tooth. Obviously Bresnan will be a mainstay for years to come - though I'd like him to lead the attack from 2010 onwards. (I'm sure the responsibility will help.) Of the others, Hoggard seems to be in decline and there is a question mark over his continued involvement with Yorkshire. (Contract wrangles) He has always been a rather eccentric figure. I doubt he would be a particularly effective elder statesman for the younger bowlers. I think we may need to say a big thankyou and then goodbye at the end of the season. Kruis has been a very fine servant to the club. His loyalty to Yorkshire has, at times, seemed to be greater than the club's loyalty to him. He is, however, at the fag end of his career and seems to be at his best bowling an opening spell in one-day cricket. Rana Naved has had his good days this season but he too is no youngster and has suffered some very severe injuries. Unlike some, I'm not prepared to question his commitment;but I do question his ability, given that he is our overseas 'star'. Rana should be replaced with a younger and more charismatic overseas player - definitely a bowler. (There are a few options currently on display in the 20/20 world cup.) Kruis and Hoggard need to be replaced from within the squad. Nothing is more likely to galvanise our younger seamers than the opportunity for extended involvement in the first team.

New overseas pace bowler; Tim Bresnan; Azmal Shahzad (+ one other at times to cover injury, absence or tiredness); Wainwright and Rafeeq (Rashid if available). This would be the base upon which I would build the rest of the team. The batting potential in the side is huge even if, at times, the performance has been somewhat disappointing this season.

This team would not win the Championship in 2010 but it should be able to keep us up. If the worst happens, it's a good team to win promotion!

I'd be reasonably happy with your team, "triple c", but I wouldn't be afraid to make more radical moves. I suppose with the opposition being the hapless Worcester, it will at least be possible to let the older bowlers know they have to deliver now or stand aside (not that the bowlers are really the problem). And if Sayers plays, he should be ordered to bat as he did in the first innings against Somerset, which was actually one of the encouraging signs to come out of the last match.
Having said that, I'm aware of commenting on something which, in reality, lies beyond my scope: to pick a successful cricket team, you have to be in the dressing room and get a really close feel for everyone in the set-up. I once played at a club where one of the batsmen was so much better than the others that half the team was intimidated by his ability and the other half left it to him to get the runs. I think one or two could see this, but nobody would admit it. When he left, they settled into being a relaxed and fairly cohesive unit. These paradoxical effects happen.

I'm puzzled by some of the remarks about Bresnan. On the radio commentary, the Reverend John Shuttleworth (DC) seemed to think he'd been one of Yorkshire's better bowlers in the first innings but had had no luck. On this forum, Steve thinks he's jaded and Tony Cronshaw seems to think he has an identity crisis (though, for him, that may apply to anyone who expresses the merest scintilla of doubt about anything - not something dear old Hesketh-Prichers would have tolerated!) and those who weren't at the game and haven't seen any of the players for ages (ie the people who keep calling for Chris Taylor to be in the team) seem to think he should be dispelled to outer darkness because of his figures.

I think I'll keep very much to myself at New Road. The locals are usually a cheery bunch (at least by comparison with Warwickshire members), but I suspect the Yorkshire supporters are going to be in witch-burning mode (in fundamentalist ideology, by the way, the idea of dropping Hoggard doesn't seem at all mad, since he - like Vaughan and Bresnan - is a "Betrayer", who was off playing test cricket when his country needed him) and I'll have to get a little bit of work done if I'm going to justify taking four days off. And then there are all the people wandering around with military binoculars, which is a slightly worrying development. Did I ever show you my pair, by the way? Used to belong to Hesketh-Prichard, the famous sniper. Believe he played county cricket...

Are you on drugs?
I cherish my anonymity at cricket matches.

Jacques Rudolph, Joe Sayers, Michael Vaughan, Anthony McGrath (capt), Andrew Gale, Jonathan Bairstow (wk), Tim Bresnan, Ajmal Shahzad, Azeem Rafiq, Matthew Hoggard, Deon Kruis, Steve Patterson and Ben Sanderson.

Some surprises for sure. Brophy and Wainwright out, Naved "rested" and Vaughan, Kruis, Rafiq, Patterson and Sanderson in. It should be an interesting game. My side XI:

Jacques Rudolph, Joe Sayers, Michael Vaughan, Anthony McGrath (capt), Andrew Gale, Jonathan Bairstow (wk), Tim Bresnan, Ajmal Shahzad, Azeem Rafiq, Matthew Hoggard, Steve Patterson

I must say gentleman (and ladies?), that this thread is exceeding even the high standards we generally see at the WRF. What a pleasure it is to wake up from a night of bad dreams (it must have been the beer I had just before nodding off; or the effects of the Economist's "Guide to Economic Indicators" I was sleep-walking through) and be able to read such interesting, intelligent, well-written, and honestly-felt insights into the life and times of the team we all support. Who needs Cricinfo or the Independent online, when I can read this level of commentary from people with such passion and commitment for our always compelling, albeit often frustrating cricket team.

Three cheers to all of you who help to make the WRF such a wonderful community of Yorkshire cricket fans, ideas and insights. Now back to the "Baltic Exchange Dry Index (BDI) & Freight Ratesteam."

Major Hesketh Vernon Hesketh-Prichard, DSO, MC, FRGS, FZS (17 November 1876 14 June 1922) was an explorer, adventurer, big-game hunter and marksman who made a significant contribution to sniping practice within the British Army during the First World War. Concerned not only with improving the quality of marksmanship, the measures he introduced to counter the threat of German snipers were credited by a contemporary with saving the lives of over 3,500 Allied soldiers.

During his lifetime, he also explored territory never seen before, played cricket at first-class level, including on overseas tours, wrote short stories and novels (one of which was turned into a Douglas Fairbanks film) and was a successful newspaper correspondent and travel writer. His many activities brought him into the highest social and professional circles. Despite a lifetime's passion for shooting, he was an active campaigner for animal welfare and succeeded in seeing legal measures introduced for their protection.

[Are we going a little off-topic here?]

Well the line up kindly posted by James suggests no real changes other than those through necessity.

Brophy is injured so Bairstow keeps wicket and drops down a place in the order (why???) and Vaughan returns from injury.

Rafiq replaces Wainwright who is also injured and we have no second spinner as Rashid is drinks waiter for England once again. If we lose to the Windies this evening do we get him back and can he step in to the team after the game has started?

So the only real selection by Moxon is the rotation of the seamers with Kruis looking likely to replace Rana. To be honest it could have been pick any four of them from 7 by rotation although Lee seems the most successful in the seconds and may have that extra pace.

And the batting order looks to be as per the fag packet for the last game and as a result our form batter ends up lower down the order so he has even less chance of maximising his run-return.

i wonder if we have already picked the team for the game after this one as well?

There is no longer a Ladies pavilion at New Road and no more cake either I believe.

Sanderson is only fit enough to field but not bowl. Looks like a straight choice between Deon and Patterson.
I wonder if the players are staying at the Diglis Hotel..?

I totally disagree with Tyke .... our attack isn't brilliant but the big problem in the last 2 games has been that Yorks haven't scored enough runs ... & we're still losing wickets in bunches. Quite a few members are of the opinion that many in the team still have the 20/20 mindset (well over half the wickets have been 'poor shot selection' ... i.e. getting themselves out) rather than good bowling ... with out luck by the time Yorks get back to the 20/20 we'll be in championship mode.

Hoggard doesn't look 100% (at one point the phyiso brought him a pill when he was fielding) but has to play as he can always take wickets. Thinking about it I'm surprised that the ECB haven't told us to rest Bresnan as he has looked a somewhat 'jaded' to my eyes in the last week ... its not that Bressy isn't trying ... just that he's not clicking & it could be that he needs a rest.

I agree about not interacting with members of this forum at games .... it wasn't just Clearsby ... there's already enough Yorks members avoiding me & my mates.

To TripleC re Bairstow - I think it should be flexible, if Worcs bat first and he is in the field for 1 and a 1/2 days then bat him at 6, if we bat first bat him at four. We could have a long tail if Naved does not play and Rafiq does.

This thread is going to break all records, 25 now before a ball has been bowled!!

It's asking a lot of any wicket keeper to bat higher than 5 or 6 if he's spent the previous day in the field. (Especially given our track record with opening partnerships - which means he could be batting after 3 or 4 overs..)

fair point re flexibility but we don't often show this leadership so i suspect he is inked in to bat at 6 now irrespectively.

The lads in form, keen and more than capable though plus his confidence levels with bat or gloves must be considerably higher than the others.

Surprise Guy has not been called up as well - after all he got a 50 for Darlington at the weekend......

I'm only surprised Guy hasn't been released. Lovely lad, loyal servant, health problems - - - I know i know I know - but honestly can anyone ever see him becoming a first team regular ahead of Brophy or Bairstow? His name doesn't even begin with B. It should have been obvious to anyone with a knowledge of Yorkshire's history.

I think we're going to win in Worcester. That's my first prediction of the season. I might go for a day - but don't tell anyone in case Dewsburian gets me in his sights...
The lack of cake is a bit of a disappointment.

Very worried about the cake situation. In the plans I saw, the old Members' Pavilion was supposed to become the new Ladies' Pavilion and the teas were going to be transferred there. Has this not happened? Where's Marie-Antoinette when we need her?

She never said that.
Another cruel victim of historical inaccuracy.

OK, where's princess Marie-Thérèse - if that's the princess to whom Rousseau was referring in "Les Confessions", as it probably is - when you need her?

It's not going to work on a t-shirt, is it? You'd never get anyone to iron that.

How about "Moxon for the Guillotine!"
(And don't tell me that I've misspelt guillotine because it's word i always have trouble with. Not that it crops up often in conversation..).

Liberte, egalite and Victoria Sponge!

Victor McGrath and les Miserables..

As Rana has been dropped ..... sorry "rested" would it be worth us signing a quality O/S batsman in the short term to desperately try and keep us up?

So Rashid is on his way to New Road. What odds for the two young Asian spin twins winning us the match?

Dont worry about your spelling Steve ... you did get Moxon correct

Doubt Adil will be at Worcester tomorrow

Can we hope for Mags to win the toss and Yorkshire spend a long day batting? I'm sure Dewsburian would like nothing more than a sunny double century partnership between Vaughan and Bairstow.
[Thanks Dp - I'm still worrying about the famous Irish Playwroight - Gil O'Teen (and his less celebrated brother Nick).]

from BBC

Yorkshire: Rudolph, Sayers, Vaughan (C), A McGrath, A Gale, Bairstow (W), Bresnan, Shahzad, Rafiq, Hoggard, Kruis

Chris from Sheffield, that is a bit of a bombshell (assuming BBC have their facts right).

A welcome bombshell at that.

is it just a typo or Freudian slip that the (c) is next to Vaughan in the line up above?

Worcs won toss and bat, long day in the field on the way SIGH

Hasn't helped the toss situation though. Another one lost, we're fielding.

Conversely losing the toss and batting second gives us our best chance of winning as we do not need to get 20 wickets. Two declarations by them and then a final afternoon run chase for us. If we bat first we have the problem of bowling them out twice, batting second we don`t have to and can still win the game.

Is anyone listening to commentary and can confirm?

BBC now have changed it and have Mags as Captain

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/shared/fds/hi/statistics/cricket/scorecards/2009/6/15658/html/scorecard.stm

That was all rather weird though..

Mags still in charge. What a pity.

At least Bresnan is keeping it tight. Three overs for 1 run.

Looks like a good toss to win.
I'm predicting five wickets for Rafiq and a century for Vaughan.

This may be an appropriate time to remind contributors that in 1918 Major Hesketh Vernon Hesketh Prichard took 6 for 18 against Worcestershire at Worcester in 1912, whilst playing for Hampshire.

According to Wisden, "As a fast bowler he was most useful, his deliveries getting up very quickly from the pitch"

in an attempt to get us a wicket, i will state that it looks like a good toss to win and their openers seem to have booked in for bed and breakfast already.

Our fourth seamer seems to have the same lack of success as our previus 3 - no surprise there.

Openers don't tend to face spinners too often so lets get Rafiq on early and see how they fare.

Off for a walk for my lunch in an attempt to buy the breakthrough wicket we need.

Steve - have you set off yet as well?

Currently sitting tight with buttocks clenched in anxiety.
Not the start i was hoping for.

I notice that several of the players who took part in yesterdays England and West Indies match are appearing for the counties today, except for Rashid. Two spinners would have been great for us in this match as it appears that the 4 seamers are going to be unsuccessfull. It would appear that Worcestershire are not the worst side in this Division, we are.

well now back and clearly that didn't work.

Time for someone to cut the grass or start their ironing I believe...

Why isn't Rashid playing? Surely, he's not tired after delivering one over and not batting in the T20 match. Was it an ECB decision or a Yorkshire decision to have one of the best spinners in England sit this out?

Rashid had a knee injury, so it was decided he shouldn't play.

Hoggy makes the breakthough. Let's hope we get rid of Solanki cheaply.

Yes, Rashid was already in the South and Wainwright was injured, so what was the problem in not arranging for him to come to Worcester and play today? The answer is probably that our coach was too slow on the uptake to arrange it or too stereotyped in team selection/strategy to be able to adjust more quickly. We should have had two spinners playing today and for remainder of the season.

Again we started with the mandatory 20 overs of seamers, without success, and with only one spinner, the captain will no doubt appear soon with his "dobbers". Why was our overseas player "rested" (because he is ineffective!?) and why did we not play Patterson in preference to Kruis (or Bresnan). It looks as though Rudolph and Sayers will open yet again - we have lost it

Is this as bad as it looks? It looks very bad. We need some with a laptop and military standard 'bins' at the ground to give us the real low down.

The wheels really do seem to be coming off.

As a very infrequent poster on this site but a very frequent attendee at the matches, I will suggest the Yorkshire has completely lost the plot. "Resting" your overseas player but including two opening/seam bowlers who have taken 12 wickets at 55 a piece (Kruis and Bresnan), playing a former England opener at 3rd and our best stroke player as opener, leaving out perhaps the best spinner in England (Rashid), dropping Rafiq after he picked up 5 wickets in his first match, and a myriad of puzzling strategic moves on the field, begets a team without a clue. The lads better right the ship very soon or we'll be buying season memberships next year for a second division team.

Rafiq on before Mags - not very successfully looking at figures.

Hoggy back for second spell before lunch - successful.

50% success rate for Mags with bowling changes then.

Elsewhere Durham are 100 -1 at lunch and Somerset 97-0 at lunch so its not just our bowlers who are struggling today.

Rashids knee injury? Convenient excuse if you ask me - yes he did seem to go off injured when misfielding the ball at third man last night but I am sure he would have been on the pitch today if it had been a test match.

He was never mentioned in the squad prior to the game so I think we had decided to go ahead without him whether he was available or not

Desperate measures.
I'm going for a walk immediately post-lunch and i suspect Tony has his iron warming up.
All will be well.
It's a day for batting. But they'll collapse.

Well Hoggy, your time has come.

must have worked Steve - or perhaps it was Tony's ironing....

If you could manage a few more laps at regular intervals i am sure Mags will appreciate it.

I'm back now.
I was hoping for a couple at least...

187-4 looks a bit better ... & 1 wicket each for everyone but Bressy

I'd go as far as to say that the next session will be a defining one for the Tykes. Do we have what it takes or we going to gently slide into that dark night and to the bottom of the division and accept demotion without a peep? Come on you lads...stand up and be real Yorkshiremen!!!!!

One of your female fans...

Unfortunately their 7 to 11 look considerably stronger than ours in this match, so although we have 4 wickets there is still lots of work to do. Knofke and Battye have a first class hundred and Kabir Ali`s highest score is 92.

250-4 ........

Down to the Glammy
We're going down to the Glammy
Down to the Glammy
We're going down to the Glammy

We are tripe, have we ever gone a whole season without a win in the CC?

Poor coach, poor captain, poor selection, poor overseas player, no strike bowlers ...........

Something needs to be done and quick.

Yes,that's all very well,but is there any cake?

We appear to be the worst team in the division by some distance.

Yet people say we have a team loaded with talent.

If thats the case then maybe responsibility does fall at the feet of Moxon and McGrath.

If the players were dross then you could understand Moxon and Mags struggling to have success. But apparently the players have the ability, but the management is not getting the best out of them.

It's quiet without Dewsburian.
Are we to assume that he's there?
Laptop in one hand and malted fruit loaf in the other.

It appears as if we are incapable of getting 20 wickets to win any match with our ineffectual bowling "attack". Winning the toss, batting first and hence having to get 20 wickets immediately means we then only have two options in the match, a draw or a loss. It might be a good idea, for the rest of the season, to always bat second then we would have a chance of winning by a last day run chase and perhaps we do not have to get 20 wickets.
You can win matches that way and perhaps only get 10 opposition wickets with 3 declarations. The way things are at the moment it`s the only way we are going to win a match.

Trouble is I wouldn't back us to chase anything over 200 anyway.

Today has the air of capitulation by the team and resignation by the fans. What a sorry show against the last place team. Sorry folks there is just not enough talent on the field. You will never take 20 wickets with an attack featuring Kruis, Hoggard and Bresnan.

Tim Bresnan 6 wickets in 6 CC this season at 68.00 each. Good enough for England but not good enough for Yorkshire, in my opinion.

Bresnan has bowled well at Worcester, though in my opinion he wastes some of his bouncers - the higher ones. Why bowl an energy-sapping ball at players who aren't going to hook? Given decent catching he would have had at least two wickets today. He also beat the bat on numerous occasions in his first and second spells.

If we're going to go into a bout of "Bresnan should be dropped" in the way that early last season there was an "Adil Rashid should be dropped" campaign, then I would humbly suggest we need our collective heads examining.

So is one wicket per Championship match in 154 overs at 66 runs a piece, indicative of a good bowler? Is it all down to dropped catches, and unfriendly pitches? Come on, the figures suggest he should be in the second XI. When did he last (if ever) have a match-winning analyis?

Dawson and Lawson were dropped for similar returns, why should Bressy be any different?

Bring on Sanderson, Lee, Patterson or Boycotts' auntie. Someone who MIGHT be able to get a job done. If we persist with the like so Kruis and Bresnan in the Championship, we can book our tickets to the second division.

It's a four day game. We've only had one day so far.
Let's keep a lid on the despair.
It was a very good toss to win.
But was there cake?

See the thread that I have cunningly disguised behind the name "Cake".

I am now well over the "man-flu" that afflicted me at the weekend by the way, so my bout of feverish posting on this forum is probably at an end. Hope I wasn't too much of a pain, but I couldn't think clearly enough to work and the cricket was on the radio...

I am much pleased to hear that there is still cake.
But pray tell from where as I understood the Ladies pavilion was no more,or has it moved elsewhere?