CLOSE OF PLAY, DAY THREE:
Somerset 326, Yorkshire 438 & 329-5(Yorks 8pts, Somerset 6pts)

Weather: Link
Yorkshire CC form guide (Most recent last) D D D D L
League table: Link
Yorkshire averages: Link
BBC Radio: Link
Somerset website: Link
Yorkshire's all-time CC record vs Somerset: P 160 Won 87 Tied 0 Lost 19 Drawn 54
Stats & Trivia: The highest team total for Yorkshire against Somerset was 589-5 at Bath in 2001.
Next Match : July 10-13 | LVCC: Yorkshire vs. Durham (Headingley Carnegie)

Is today the day when we finally get THAT 1st win? I'll be so disappointed if we bat on this morning, have to declare now and have a full day, take early wickets and surround them with fielders to pile on the pressure.

You're all correct. There's rain in the air. Let's declare and try and beat them. If Trescothick manages to score enough runs to beat us - then bloody good luck to him...

wouldn't it be ironic if the first game after Vaughans retirement saw us win at last?

And without an overseas player...

And without 2 main bowlers away with England.

A win might also encourage Hoggy to stay with us next season. If Worcts stay up and we go down then their approach can only look more appealing to him.

Does this mean it's raining?
Anyone got the broadcast coverage - is it a shower or are we knackered for the day?

looks like we are batting on- Shahzad in with Bairstow

We are batting on, it's all so negative I wonder if we'll ever win again.

But why did we not declare last night?
I,m loath to comment on a match that I'm not watching but from where I am it would appear that fear of defeat has left us in aposition where hope victory is virtually impossible.

It's perfectly possible to score 450 runs in a day at Taunton. Mags needs to know he's safe, or we'd all be slagging him off for declaring too soon if we were to lose.

... and as I write that we've declared!

I think it's unlikely 30 minutes will make much difference either way.
If i was tresco and Langer I'd still be seeing this as an achievable target. They could easilly be 300+ by tea without even trying - especially if we set attacking fields...

What sort of message does that send to the bowlers?

"Guys I don't rate you and I'm seriously worried a team can chase at 5 an over to get 450 against us"

I am with "young clogger" on this. If Mags had declared overnignt and they had got 450 in a day, which is an easy target, he would have been hung drawn and quartered by everyone as throwing a "won" match away.

On no pitch on earth is 450 an "easy target" I'd be surprised if it's been chased more than 5% of the time in the history of cricket. I think people are massively overstating how good a 4th day pitch is down there

so Mags will be hung drawn and quartered whatever he does by someone, as if we draw now he will be accused of declaring too late.

Good luck to Somerset if they get over 400 - cricket is meant to be entertaining and to win you sometimes have to take risks and be prepared to lose at the same time.

the Sussex game showed he almost got the declaration correct - here I think he is too late but then again I don't know what the wicket is doing or how our bowlers are feeling.

What a total load of ill -informed nonsense from some on here.
I doubt if in over 120 years of county cricket has a team ever chased 450plus in the fourth innings and won a game more than half a dozen times.
Somerset will make no attempt to win,as such a target is way beyond being attainable.
Yorkshire will get their draw which is apparently what they came for in the first place.
The sequence of non -wins will extend even further,as will Yorkshire's descent to the bottom of the league.
An utter disgrace not to try and win and put avoidance of defeat as the first objective.

If Somerset manage to knock off this enormous total, it would be by far the biggest 4th innings score to beat Yorkshire - the previous record being 404:5 by Hampshire in 2006.

Cleasby -"I doubt if in over 120 years of county cricket has a team ever chased 450 plus in the fourth innings and won a game. "

Actually you are comprehensively wrong in this regard, Cleasby. In fact, your own team, Middlesex, holds the 4th innings record, knocking off 502-6 to beat Nottinghamshire at Trent Bridge in 1925.

" ...a total load of ill -informed nonsense..." indeed!

At 48 - 0 off 11 overs are you all still so confident?

Strange goings on at Chester Le Street. looks like they're trying to knock the runs off as quick as possible - must be rain on the way...

it worked Steve - Durham won by 5 wickets

lets hope Somerset try and knock off 475 before tea for same reason

I do apologise Statman,and have since amended my original post as you will see,to what I meant to say.
You are right of course,that NO team have ever scored 475 or more in the fourth innings to win a match apart from Middlesex,on that famous occassion and only three teams apart from them have ever passed 450 to win a match in The County Championship
So 52-0 in 11 overs or not,I think Yorkshire have assured themselves against defeat,barring a miracle,and gain four points where they might have been after fourteen and a huge boost to their confidence and standing in the first division.

Another win for Durham on a "dodgy" wicket at Chester-le-Street. Allowing for the rain delayed time, 35 wickets in 2 and a half days. Thats the fourth win on the trot for Durham, 2 of them on a crap wicket at Chester-le-Street, and they had the Kent match yesterday on a similar poor wicket. No points docked on either of the two previous occasions, and no doubt, non docked this time.
Worcestershire have now lost EVERY CC they have played this season except the 2 against us. Shows us up as an equally as poor side as them.
I just wonder if Somerset will win with overs to spare!! Many will say then he declared to early!! I`m afraid Mags today is damned if he does and damned if he doesn`t unless we win of course and then obviously he has got it totally correct. A draw or a win for Somerset is favourite now.

one wicket can make a big difference - I seem to recall we thought Sussex had run away with it but one wicket slowed them down and put us back in it

If we lose this having set them such a massive total, I can only imagine what a devastating effect this would have on what's left of team morale.

Alas, there is no way this attack is going to bowl Somerset out. In my opinion, if we lose this game, we'll be heading straight to demotion, and that would mean the end of Moxon and probably the resignation of McGrath at the end of the season.

I also back Mags on this one ... yes the attack has talent ... but an inexperienced attack can easily get hit ... as is shown by Somerset being 89/0 off 19 overs.

Come on Yorkshire ... we CAN do it

I think we're looking at a draw - unless my favourite Rafiq plays a blinder! Wish we had a spinner at the other end to back him up...
I'm also marvelling at the latest debating technique introduced by Mr Cleasby; If someone proves you wrong in some way, you simply go back and revise your original post to prove that you were right all along.
Brilliant. I think Stalin tried something similar with history.

It`s a good job we batted on this morning or they would have been 150-0 at lunch needing only another 295 off 64 overs. Definately the correct decision to bat on.

Good to see Suppiah playing cautiously for lunch. Only 14 from Rudolph's over....

Would someone minding telling Somerset that history dictates they have no chance?

but i thought you had Trescothick in your fantasy team Steve?

Somerset 473 all out (Tres 275 not out)?

They are very slightly behind the rate. When the innings started they needed 475 of a min of 90 overs at 5.27 runs per over, they are only scoring at 4.92 per over and now need 352 of 65 overs at 5.41. The problem is if we bowl spin a lot it could well be more than 65 overs. A three hour thunderstorm would be great news for Yorkshire as now there can now only be two results to this match and a win for us is not one of them. (perhaps reverse pyscology may work - how do you spell sycology!!).

I'm worried!!

This game was never about winning, it was all about not losing. Before the start of play we'd have all settled for a high scoring draw and this is what we should have secured. Mags has fallen between two stools. Defeat would be hard to come back from.

I think we'll get our draw but we have little chance of victory whereas Somerset have a better one despite us 'bossing' the game since the start of day 1. This is about the bigger picture and that picture is avoiding relegation with high scoring draws and victories in the games at Scarboro.

I'm worried now as well. But more with some of our negativity

why was this game about drawing/not losing and not winning?

why at the half way stage should we not alter our expectations if we are in the driving seat?

i think there are more twists and turns to come. Scoring at 4.5 an over for rest of day may sound easy but a few wickets change things quickly.

Are we attacking and setting attacking fields? If so great but this means we can easily adjust the field placings later if the game is going to run away from us.

I would like to think Mags is still thinking about a win for us at this stage

Stay calm. July 3 2009, 12:59 PM
I'm also marvelling at the latest debating technique introduced by Mr Cleasby; If someone proves you wrong in some way, you simply go back and revise your original post to prove that you were right all along.
Brilliant. I think Stalin tried something similar with history.

I beg your pardon Steve,What did I get wrong,apart from from not expressing myself clearly enough,which I then corrected.
My point remains the same.
In 120 years of County cricket and thousands of matches only one team has scored over 475 to win a match,and it won't happen again today.
What we are seeing,is that an ealier declaration may well have produced a definite result and no one ,certainly not I would have condemned Mags if Yorkshire had been on the wrong end of that result.
It's all very well declaring late,going with attacking fields,with the full knowledge that you can close it up at any time.
It may fool a few teletext watchers that you got it right,but not too many are fooled by ultra defensive tactics designed only to avoid defeat.

I have two Fantasy teams.
Tresco is capatin of one team - and Rafiq is Captain of the other. (I know he's young but I wanted to see how he would respond to the responsibillity..)
I see it as a win/win situation.

More bloviating from Mr Cleasby.
Isn't it time you were watching the tennis?
What was the result of the Seconds game?

The record first innins partnership for Somerset was 346 v Yorks at Taunton in 1892. Does anyone know what the highest successfull score chasing in the 4th innings of a match is?

Noted in a previous post:

Middlesex, holds the 4th innings record, knocking off 502-6 to beat Nottinghamshire at Trent Bridge in 1925.

What a humiliation if they knock of the runs without losing a wicket.

And it looks like we`ll have to try to avoid setting the all-time record non-win sequence which we`ll tie in this match. And guess who we play next. Durham, who have won 4 matches on the trot.

Thank goodness for that, at least it might slow the scoring rate down and we might get the draw.

Am i the only one who finds it staggering that our only spinner has only bowled five overs so far? On the fourth day of a match when we're trying to bowl them out. It's worht pointing out that he's also our most economic bowler...

More bloviating from Mr Cleasby.
Isn't it time you were watching the tennis?
What was the result of the Seconds game?



Not bloviating,Steve,just responding in a friedly manner to someone who seems intend on starting an arguement.
I'll save that for someone who displays any sign of intelligence or even slight understanding of cricket.

I,m watching cricket at present,the tennis I'll watch does not start for ages Steve,try and keep up.
Persistent rain at Carnegie sees match abandoned with no result.
Lunch today was Battered Haddock,chips and mushy peas,followed by a little nap.
Can you stay away and stop wasting my time now Steve,obviously nothing to say as per usual.

A win by Somerset is well in the bounds of reason now. And with 9 wickets in hand, we could be in for one of the most morale-crushing defeats in team history. COME ON YORKSHIRE!

At least Rafiq isnow bowling ... but its starting to look 'worrying'.

I think we're okay. The wicket has slowed the scoring rate and surely curtailed their ambitions. They'd need to be scoring at 7+ an over after tea which should be difficult if we decide to defend the boundary.

Stop worrying chaps.
You'll get your draw in the end.475 Somerset aint going to get!!!

I have, for a long time now, enjoyed the reasoned, articulate and entertaining posts from, but not restricted to, Steve C, TC, etc.

My enjoyment of this wonderful site is now being compromised.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why.

If we ignore him, will he go away?

Easy, Cleasby or you`ll be suspended from yet another forum. You can`t go on insulting all and sundry and expect the moderators not to act. The moderators even had to lock a thread you started about not being able to start a thread. Geeze!

Some of your recent drivel...

a total load of ill -informed nonsense from some on here

I,ve (sic) been banned from some places because many object to my posts,where subjects are far beyond their understanding

The pedantry involved in this hypothetical arguement (sic) is staggering in it's irrelevance.

'll (sic)save that for someone who displays any sign of intelligence or even slight understanding of cricket.

Stiff is sent in (to pinch hit?) They are going for it!!

I can't help thinking that there has to be a joke in this somewhere...
Could be an entertaining half hour coming up.

or is Stiff a tea-watchman to protect Langer?

Fair play to them for putting him up the order and having a go - if he comes off like a Napier or Mascerenhas then it could make the last session interesting. Good imaginative captaincy from Langer and lets see how we respond

219 needed of 33 overs (6.63 per over). Still gettable, 1/2 an hour of Stiff pinch-hitting successfully and we will lose this.

He'll hole out within 2 or 3 overs of the resumption.

I,ve no doubt many would prefer me not on this board.
It may even happen,but certainly not for breaking of any rules.
Somerset did of course tie a match at Taunton ,not so long ago when they scored 453 in the fourth innings against West Indies 'A' in 2002.
And the top scorer on that day was a man yet to reach the crease.
I'm cheering for Zummerzet now,as a few choose to be rude to me.
COME ON TRIGGER AND JL,show'em what we taught you at The Middle and give those Tykes a beating to remember.
Impartiality is a wonderful thing,and cricket such a great game when it throws up the totally unexpected as it still might possibly do today.
Sorry Mags and Mox,you guys obviously got it right after all.

What a wonderful job. Where do i apply?
Could be perfect for someone of limited intelligence who knows nothing about cricket.

Ironically, the closer they get to winning, it might just give us a glimmer of a chance. If they get to seven or eight down and still need 30 off five overs....?

Are we all now agreed that mags declaration was correct?

You really know how to make friends, Cleasby. Winding people up seems to be your forte.

sorry Steve - you would be overqualified for the role (or should that be roll?) but i can think of a few people who would be ahead of you in the queue anyway.

Talking of teas, I saw the Sky cameras were at Worcester yesterday and they went into the tents at the interval and showed the legendary cake stall you were all going on about last week - they must have done a fresh batch of cooking to replace the ones you all ate as there was a plentiful supply of cakes that would have had Johnners in raptures.

i am also trying to conjure up in my own mind how much of his cricketing nous Langer acquired at Middlesex as opposed to in Australia or with the Australian test team

28 of 20 balls. Oh buggar, it`s slipping away.

Oh dear.
This could get very messy.
Why isn't he bowling Rafiq more? I'm assuming that the field has now been spread to the boundary. Soon this is going to become a 20/20 run chase...

Hoggy gets Hildreth ... but its still possible for Somerset to get them. Come on Yorks we need a win

Somerset suddenly detumescent.
Will they settle for a draw now?

for last 10 minutes. It`s either raining or they are blocking.

Luckily Hoggard seems to have "stiffed" Somerset, reducing or at least lessening their swelling innings and restoring the possibility of a draw back to its normal size.

Langer & Kieswetter could win it on their own

Langer and de Bruyn also feature in the various permutations of "Lord Hawke's Revenge"...
I'll happilly settle for nil point on this occasion.
The tennis must be interesting - silence is deafening.

The record second innings score against Yorkshire is 404:5 by Hampshire in 2006. They won the match.

The highest second innings score against Yorkshire in a drawn match is 366:8 by Hampshire in 2007.

Does anyone know how many overs there will be?
Is it 15 overs from 5pm?

338-5 with 20 overs to go!

who said cricket at Taunton was boring?

.....needed of 19 overs.

Looks like they're setling for a draw..?

Hello again folks.
Sorry ,I've been on a bus,but back now.
The thing is I'm quite happy to admit it when I get it wrong,and events do seem to indicate that Mags was right to be cautious today.
I unreservedly apologise for doubting him,and showing the foolishness of trying to analyse a situation from far away.
Well,it all seems set up for a thrilling finish.
With Langs and Bed wetter at the crease and Triggs and Zander yet to come,anything could still happen,even a Yorkshire victory,however I see the draw still as clear favourite.
Come on you Grockles!!!

I hope so. Its not the loss of the 4 points I fear, it`s what it would do to team morale if we lose this.

18 of the last over. 111 of 16 needed.

You are starting to irritate me, Sleasby.

I'll shut up now.

Please get the "joke bowlers" off now.

...has just scored 40 of the last two overs.

I wonder if McGrath will tender his resignation after this debacle?

The only way to slow the rate is to take a wicket or two..
Preferably Trego.
What an extraordinary game.
Your days are numbered Mr Cleasby. No idea what happiness you get from annoying everyone..

I think he could well be FENDER the Middlesex WUM who posts on the CoU messageboard, if it is Alex could do us a favour by banning him. He will only get worse and really start to annoy people.

What awful bowling. Shazad, Lee and Patterson 0-219 between them.

Well, this performance will bring Kruis and Naved back for the Durham match. Patterson and Lee likely will not see another CC match this season.

We need Trego out ASAP, he's killing us here

This is now the highest 4th innings total against Yorkshire in Championship history...and that is in 146 years!

You have to feel for the lads. Its all come undone. Its literally men against boys.

I'm sorry you're getting annoyed with me folks,but hardly a reason to get rid of me especially on a board I've recently commended for it's tolerance and acceptance of alternative view points.
Not my fault that Yorkshire could lose this one,and certainly not Mag's either.
It's close now,with the odds tipping towards Somerset,but a desire to go all the way keeps Yorks in it.
Keep going Trigger,glory is not far off.

Cleasby: We accept alternative viewpoints, but not alternative insults, and personal attacks on long time members.

Langer's gone. Typical of cricket I suppose that Somerset being close is Yorkshire's best chance of winning.

Be thankful also they weren't playing at Headingley. It was raining in Leeds until about 4 p.m.

wicket!

come on lads!!

Unfair on James Lee ...he's only bowled 5 overs how can you blame him for all the runs!

We have the new ball.

other forums are available.

If we could only get Trego we might still have a chance.
What an innings!

Men versus boys. What a gulf in class!

To Mags and all the posters on here that correctly said we shouldn't declare overnight, not like it's gonna matter either way. What a sledgehammer loss this will be.

He puts Lee on now?
That seems unecessarilly cruel to me.

A devastating loss, we lose if we play badly and we lose if we play well. This will be totally demoralising for team spirit and morale. The only way we are going to win a match this season is if we bat second and chase a total on the final day. We are never going to get 20 wickets to win a match. Good job we did not declare overnight or they would have won it with 20 overs to spare.

There we go, well done to Somerset what a chase.

Somerset home and dry now.The largest total to win a county championship match in 84 years and the second highest ever demonstrates what a huge achievment this has been.
A wonderful knock from all that I've been hearing,from Trigger,a much underestimated player whose career was revived at The Middle.
A fine player who deserves higher regognition.
Yorkshire's morale should not suffer,in a match they played a full part.
I,m delighted to have been proved so very wrong in my assesment,and envious of all of those who saw such a great day's cricket.
Congratulations Somerset,a magnificent effort.

Cant believe we have lost the game, moral must be now at rock bottom I feel depressed and embarrassed,when are we going to win a CC match again.

That's a truly remarkable run chase.
Let's give them credit before we're too harsh on our own bowlers.
It might sound stupid - but I don't think we did much wrong. We just lacked depth in bowling on the last day. With bres and Rashid I think we'd have won.
Let's be wary of over reaction.

Merci, et Au Revoir.

What a cruel game cricket is, we completely out play Somerset for 80% of the game, declare to get them back in the game, lose less wickets than them in the match and still end up losing.

What effect, if any, this will have on morale will remain to be seen, but points wise Yorkshire have not suffered too badly. They've picked up 5 more than Worcester, only one less than Lancashire and only 3 less than Notts.

Perhaps it can be just put down to the "Taunton factor", but I don't think anyone should describe Taunton's games as boring any more. After all, Yorkshire had a great win there last season.

A devastating loss by any measure. Indeed, it probably ranks as one of the worst losses in team history, given that Yorkshire gave up the highest 4th innings total to lose a match in 146 years of first class cricket.

Luckily we have a week off to lick our wounds and get some of the injured players back.

But one way or the other, McGrath and Moxon have to completely re-think their game plan and get this team playing to their potential.

Unfortunately, we play the best team in the division in our next match, and could be without Rashid and Bresnan, if they get into the Ashes side.

On the bright side: Sayers, Bairstow and Lyth assured their places in the first team for the rest of the season, and Hoggard bowled his heart out for 8 wickets. We just have to put out a stronger supporting cast.

Hopefully, we can win against Durham and avoid setting the most dubious Yorkshire team record of all -18 matches without a Championship win.

Its our inability to win a game that worries me most, yes we play well as a team in parts of most games also have good individual performances but seldom win, I don't know the answer but its often said that winning as well as losing becomes a habit.Maybe if the worse happens a spell in the lower division may help our lads get the winning habit.

Mags & Moxon July 3 2009, 6:11 PM

Merci, et Au Revoir.


I hardly think so David.
What more could they have done,than set Somerset a target never previously achieved in the championship since 1925?
When things are going against you,there's little you can do.
Yorkshire's attack was weak and inexperienced due to injury and International calls and we all know about the Taunton road,so over-reaction is not what is required.
I appreciate some are emotional and hugely disappointed ,but from someone with a dispassioinate view point,believe me panic moves now are not what is required.

It is also worth noting that this remarkable match featured the second most runs (1,606) ever scored in a Yorkshire match, just under the 1,665 scored in the Warwickshire match at Birmingham in 2002.

And they want to shorten the County Championship. No twenty20 match could ever produce this sort of sustained, almost unbearable tension.

Yes, the wrong team lost, but what a wonderful endorsement for the 4-day game, and proof positive as to endearing and enduring qualities of the County Championship.

I need a beer!

This is a disaster of the highest order ... & no I'm not overreacting. Somerset have scored 479 at 5.6 an over. We should ask why Rafiq has only bowled 14.3 overs & more importantly why Lee was picked over Kruis or even Wainwright. More worrying is Shahzad not taking a wicket in the 2nd innings

The only positive I can see is that this should finally shut up those who say that Hoggard doesn't care ... 8 wickets in the game & loads of overs. As I've said before there are times when Hoggy doesn't take the wickets he deserves but he always tries.

Sky reported as the players were leaving the pitch at the game end the heavens opened , we don't seem to have lady luck anywhere near us lately.

Hoggard has to stay, what do we if he leaves? play for the draw?. No chance, play him in the Pro40 and see what happens.

I've never understood why we leave Hoggy out of the 1 day (as oppossed to the 20/20) team .... he's the current highest wicket taker in a season for Yorks in the 'Sunday League'.

btw Another Dpressing statistic ... we all know today was the highest ever 4th innings total against Yorkshire .... but even worse, this is the first time EVER that Somerset have betan us twice in the same season in the County Championship

This is the most frustrated I can recall being by any defeat. Moxon and Mags appear to have no understanding of the bigger picture, the relegation battle we are in and the need to rebuild team confidence.

I comment without seeing a ball of the game which is always dangerous but I'm also happy for anyone to re-read my posts before and during this game.

Last night I favoured batting on, this morning I favoured batting on, when we declared I objected to it. This game was all about rebuilding. High scoring draw + max bowling points with a 'second' team attack, we'd all take that. After 2 disappointing championship games at Leeds (Sussex and Somerset) and an even game at Worcester followed by the 20/20 meltdown, not losing again was everything. I never thought we'd get 10 wickets today to win the game given the attack available and the playing condidtions, so why give them any victory chance at all. Why not bat Jonny Bairstow to his 100 and Shahzad to a 50? Classic rule of captaincy, do what the opposition don't want, what did Somerset want, a declaration, what did we give them, a declaration and a run chase!! Idiots.

We have winnable games on favourable pitches at Leeds and Scarboro, so why not get 12 points at Taunton and sod off home!!

If Moxon and Mags believed we could take 10 wickets today and win the game, they really are deluding themselves about our bowling. We are in a relegation battle and they don't seem to understand that.

Some may argue that not declaring would have sent a negective message to the bowlers, well 476 in 86 overs sends a very negative one. Mags could have patted the bowlers on the back, said well done for getting max bowling points in a batting paradise followed by 'show me what you can do in Leeds next week'. That would have been a better message. As it is for the Durham game, we're unlikely to have Bres or Rashid, it's hard to justify picking Patterson or Lee, so it's back to Navad, Kruis or preferably a 2nd spinner Wainwright. But this isn't about the team for the Durham game, it's about the stupidity of today. I can't believe we can be so muddled in our thinking. I don't mind declaring and losing when the chance of victory exists eg the recent home game with Sussex, but today we were never going to bowl them out! Never.

Read the few posts I made before and during the game, I'm, for once!!, not being wise after the event.

Well put CB ... but I think most people on here wanted to go for the win. If Mags hadn't declared he would have been slaughtered. I must admit that I never thought that Somerset would get anywhere near the total.

At least this result will stop the 'get rid of the old guard' moaners. Picking kids is OK in moderation ... but when you've only 1 experienced bowler (Hoggy) the wheels can easily come off

But in the first innings Yorkshire took TEN Somerset wickets in less than 80 overs, so surely Moxon and/or McGrath would be entitled to think that they could take ten wickets in ninety overs on a fourth day pitch?

Somerset deserve credit for continuing to go for the runs, I felt sure that at 338 for 5 they would shut up shop. I also heard a catch go down whilst Cally was reporting live for the Radio Leeds five o'clock news.

It would only need a catch to be taken, a brilliant run out or a poor shot to be played and the last few overs could have seen Caddick and Willoughby with all the Yorkshire team around the bat and it could easily have been the first win of the season.

Having read everyones comments over the past couple of days it clear that whatever Moxon, Mags etc do they are criticised.

They leave the so called "kids" (although I would term them all as young men) who are performing well out you all challenge why, they include them and they have the finger of blame pointed at them individually as YCCC supporters aren't you supposed to be behind your club, its team and the players? They lost and they lost as a team ...no one individual is to blame.

I'm sure every single one of the team are gutted for the game to end the way it has today...

Whatever we do, we can't win. The problem is is that the likes of Patterson & Shazhad are improving and learning but not quickly enough. Plus one side believed they could win (Somerset) while the other (Yorkshire) didn't. The worse thing is that McGrath will probably become even more negative after this defeat. Had it been the other way round its likely Yorkshire would have finished 220/8 hanging on in the last 30 minutes.

Rashid might play for England next week, but its unlikely Bresnan will be, think Onions & Harmison will be ahead of him now in the pecking order, especially since Phil Hughes looked clueless against Harmison in the Lions game.

I'm hugely disappointed by the result but feel we should acknowledge the fantastic performance of Somerset in this match. To score such a huge number of runs in such a short time is a once in a decade achievement. Trego's effort was the innings of his life. This won't be done again by Somerset for years and years. Let's give them credit and let's also try not to be too hard on this extremely young and inexperienced Yorkshire side.
To be honest, I felt we should have declared half an hour before close of play yesterday - it just shows what I know!!
There's still lots to play for this season and several young players are now a lot more wise in the ways of cricket at this level. It will do them good and we may see the benefit of this before the end of the season.
Durham next! An opportunity; not a cause for despair.

Catastrophic meltdown, or green shoots of recovery?

Making good time on the return journey from Taunton to Leeds, I could hardly come online quickly enough to tell you of events which have happened in Taunton on these last four days.

Reeling from the news that Vaughan had finally discovered the location of the Fire Exit and jumped ship, leaving the Admirals Mox and Mags, supported by Rear-Admiral Reagan, to bring his Yorkshire career to a belated end, YCCC entered the LVCC Match against Somerset at Taunton facing a turning point in the history of Yorkshire cricket. Could they respond to the challenge presented to them?

Deprived of two of their major strike-bowlers, as Bresnan and Rashid had been spirited away to engage in an exercise of International Cricket naval gazing within the concrete "Colosseum of Nightmares" at Edgbaston, Yorkshire were also without the services of Wainwright, who is still not recovered from the injury to his hand. Inexplicably, Lee was prefered to Kruis; leaving one to assume that Kruis was carrying an injury as well! Maybe so! May be not! Whatever, Lee played and will have learned far more from the experience than either Bresnan or Rashid will have gained by their presence with Team England.

For Somerset, by contrast, unaffected by England calls, there was home advantage and the return of Caddick, the second oldest player currently playing County Cricket (the eldest is Law of Derbyshire), giving the home side its first choice XI.

Even as one walked onto the ground on Tuesday morning the location of the chosen strip for this match was one of eye-opening surprise. It was so far over towards the new (and dramatically unlovely) terraces and apartment suites, that three boundaries were indefensibly short, whilst the fourth, out towards the new Andy Caddick Pavillion, was so long that one was left to wonder how many batsmen would be "timed-out". Of course, it is well-known that in search of Championship honours, Somerset have been "experimenting" in recent years in attempting to produce "result wickets".

Day One was dominated by the batting of Rudolph, who in heavy conditions where the ball "did plenty", ensured that YCCC made a more than respectable start to the game. Yorkshire were, marginally, on top!

Day Two, and Trescothick, without a great deal of support managed to restrict Yorkshire's first innings lead to 112, despite a comeback spell towards the end of the day when Hoggard rolled back the years to show glimpses of why he was once considered the most dependable bowler in the world.

On day three, Yorkshire batted really well and with Sayers, Lyth and Bairstow all, finally relieved of making way for Team England's "Golden Boy", played in their individual ways with a joy and purpose which could only warm the heart of anyone who had waited long to see the second coming of Yorkshire Cricket.

Even so, could McGrath, dare McGrath, declare at the over-night score? Might this be a fourth-day feather-bed? Was the only turn available at the Old Pavilion end, which giving the shortest boundary would mean that the off-spinner could only be used at the other end and the vital attacking card be denied?

Wisely, McGrath decided to bat on, until with the fourth morning beginning to "burn-up" in the high temperature, he declared leaving Somerset 476 to win.

Remember that, thanks to the ECB's unfair and unjust misuse of Bresnan and Rashid, he had Hoggard and Shazhad, Patterson, Lee and Rafiq at his disposal. In other words, an aging Hoggard and four others with a combined aggregate of less than 20 first class matches between them!

Should he have set them 500 or more? He could have done so easily! But would it have been good cricket? He erred on the side of "making it a match" and for this he should be applauded for his courage.

What then happened, can only be described as one of the best contests ever to be seen in County Cricket. What Yorkshire's bowling lacked in experience and guile, was more than made up for by the tiger-like quality of their fielding. This is one of the greatest fielding sides in the history of first class cricket. Lyth (the Whitby Whelk) is so awake, that together with the hereditory excellence possessed by Bairstow,and the generally giftedness of most of the rest, that even the aged (McGrath), functional (Patterson) and formerly poor (Gale) have raised their performances to a level that can only be described, as it was by the Somerset supporters, as outstanding.

So, what went wrong? Why did we lose?

In answer:

Nothing went wrong. This was the best advert for county cricket that it would be possible to devise. YCCC did not lose, Somerset won. And Somerset won, because Trego played as he has never played before and will never play again. And hewas massively helped by those three short boundaries and the fact thaqt Yorkshire's spinner could not be deployed at the end which was taking spin, because the boundary was too short.

In the end, home advantagewas decisive!

Nevertheless, this was a great cricket match, in which Cricket was the winner.

YCCC did not win, but they took a giant step forward from the mediocrity which has characterised their performances since the corresponding fixture last year.

Those who were present have seen the future of Yorkshire Cricket, and those who are in power and those who were not there, must now give all their support to Mags ans Mox and their new young Yorkshire Team. And all of us must start to demand that Team England treat the counties with proper respect and care.

Only by restoring pride in the local can it be hoped that success will be achieved internationally.

We must devise a system in which, like Yorkshire's young tigers today, the team members play for each other, whatever the outcome, rather than continue to develop the over-paid celebrity, "boot-camp" culture of individualism, which leaves one searching for the Fire Escape.

If that last post actually is the tc we all know and love then what a remarkable turn of events.

The posters that didn't see the match slate the team and predict relegation whilst the one man that was there comes back glowing with praise and optimism. Not only that the most ardent critic of Moxon has been transformed, it would seem, and is now urging us to give him out support.

Well, Mr Cronshaw, you've outdone even your usual standard of reporting excellence. And you know, I agree with you. What a match, what a report. Thanks!

AJ

Still stunned in Australia

Thanks to Tony for an excellent report......but I can't help but feel that even playing a part in a magnificent game of cricket there is and will be a feeling of 'Where Do We Go From Here ? '.....The team which is mainly made up of younger cricketers will be just as devastated as the people posting on this forum by this defeat and it may take some getting over.....we now have a few days to , in the words of our Cricket Director 're-group' but the game next week presents a massive test both in terms of character building and the team we are playing.

We have now suffered 2 defeats to Somerset which has left players and supporters hurting because of the last day performance and so I see next week's game as pivotal to staying in the championship division 1 .

It will be a massive game for ALL the players selected to play next week.

Let's hope for a great response and a much needed victory but also ,let's all get behind the team from first to last ball with our support.

It hurts like hell today. Forget about this being a fantastic game and a magnificent run chase by Somerset, we lost again and that is more important than anything else. Hopefully lessons have been learnt by Mags to never ever declare again when you have no chance of bowling the opposition out. 4 points thrown away. On that pitch, against the stongest batting side in the Division v the weakest bowling side in the Division it was never going to be any thing else than 12 points maximum. We should have settled for that. We played excellently and out played Somerset throughout until we declared and gifted them 14 points. Not one of the Championship teams would have got 10 wickets yesterday at Taunton so what chance did we have with our very weakened bowling attack, we should have batted on until mid afternoon and got the extra 4 points. Lets face it we are never going to get 20 wickets to win any match so a pragmatic approach is neccessary for the rest of the season, no declarations and aim for 9 more 12 point draws. It might be boring and un-entertaining but survival is the important factor. Batting second is probably the best option, let the other team declare and set us a target and we do not have to bowl sides out twice, you can win a match with three declarations and a final day run chase. It could have been us chasing down 476 to win, and on that wicket we probably would have done it. As well as being over a year and 18 matches since winning a CC match, it is now a month since we have won a match in any form of the game and things get even tougher now with Durham and Notts our next two Championship matches. Fingers crossed that England help our cause by selecting Colly, Onions and Harmison for England and by not selecting Bresnan and Rashid. Hopefully the team are not to despondent or shot to pieces, they did not deserve to lose, as they did play exceptionally well. The best team lost, lets think positive v Durham and Notts, play as well again, DO NOT declare under any circumstances, and pick up 24 points.

for an excellent report, Tony Cronshaw. It's good to see that you're at peace with yourself now that Michael Vaughan has retired. I feared you may suspect he was exerting an evil influence from beyond the grave, as it were. Oddly enough, I saw Sayers playing excellently and with joy etc. when Michael Vaughan was in the same team at Edgbaston, but we'll let that pass. Bairstow and Lyth too have seemed untroubled by his presence in the past, while Gale seemed glad of it in the 20/20 fixtures. But I am being needlessly small-minded. Perhaps Cleasbyism has got to me.
Just for the record - and not as any kind of criticism of your report - Bresnan and Rashid were not at the Edgbaston colosseum, but in the cake-filled pastures of New Road, where Bresnan seems to have got some more of those "lucky" wickets of his in the first innings (3 for 46, I believe).

Thanks Tony for your report. I wish I'd been there to compare notes. I agree with you that the positives outweigh the nagatives (at least I think that was your gist) and that we go on from here determined to put our faith in these youngsters.Add a good overseas bowler to the mix and we've got something to build on. I've always believed in Adam Lyth and it's beginning to look as if Bairstow will be lost to England in a couple of years.
I also want to support your thoughts about respecting the County game. The England set-up, by failing to give County Championship Cricket its due, risks destroying the means by which good international players are created.
I can't wait for Durham on Friday!

Stu, you say no county team would have taken 10 wickets on the last day. But as has been stated WE took 10 in the first innings on a day two pitch. It was worth a try.

You say it can't be done, but many of your fellow posters said chasing 476 on a day four pitch couldn't be done.

I take you point Joe, but I was basing my thoughts on TC`s report about the very short boundaries on three sides of the wicket which meant that our potentially best bowler in Rafiq bowling on a fourth day turning pitch could not bowl at the end assisting him because of these short boundaries. Presumably they knew this in advance and did not pick a spinner for that very reason. If the wicket had been more central and we had had two spinners then maybe 10 wickets in the day would have been possible, but on that day and with our bowlers i still believe it was never a possibility.

Many thanks for putting me straight about the whereabouts of Bresnan and Rashid. I have struggled all week to come to terms with both the locus and the locus standi of the three fixtures at Edgbaston, New Road and the Menin Gate.

What I was never in doubt about was that due to the absence of two experienced, wicket-taking bowlers,and the unavailability of Wainwright, YCCC would be very hard-pressed to compete with Somerset at Taunton.

In actual fact, YCCC out-played Somerset for the first three days and might still have won, had one critical catch off Stiff not been grounded on the last afternoon. Beyond that, Trego and cleverly used "home advantage" put this game beyond Yorkshire's grasp.

The positives were real and should be gleefully accepted:

1. Rudolph's first innings century.
2. Shazhad's bowling on the second day.
3. Hoggard's shear determination, not to mention his five first innings wickets.
4. Bairstow's wicket-keeping throughout.
5. Sayers second innings century.
6. Lyth and Bairstow's batting in both innings.
7. McGrath's careful nurturing of both Lee and Rafiq. He rightly, asked for most from Hoggard and more from Patterson and Shazhad.

Every Yorkshire member that I spoke to at Taunton was of the opinion that YCCC had made a jolly good fist of a difficult situation. That great credit should go to the players for the way they had contested the outcome at every turn; playing for each other with a sense of purpose that has not been present in the team for a very long time.

Yes, the bowling was not strong or experienced enough in the final analysis, but given quasi-representative demands and current injuries, there was little that Moxon or McGrath could have done to improve matters.

The biggest paradox of all is that, because we are one of the few counties which are actually bringing through and developing new talent, we are being adversely penalised by the excessive demands which are being made by Team England and its shady acolytes.

None of this would really matter, were it not for the current two division arrangement of the County Championship. This was introduced in order to give greater purpose to a larger number of CC matches later in the season, but has been completely undermined by the misuse of Central Contracts, the fawning subservience to the demands of "Celebrity Cricketers" and the ECB's disregard for County Cricket.

Until these issues are re-balanced, YCCC will continue to produce good young players only to see them whisked away to play in meaningless practice matches and attend "team building" exercises like this week's trip to Flanders, which could have taken place, were its purpose truly to honour those who gave everything in order to sustain the Empire, at any time of year and certainly did not need to be at the height of the cricket season.

Consequently, unless a grassroots campaign of non-cooperation with the ECB is effective, Yorkshire can look forward to a sustained future in the second division, because Lyth and Bairstow, certainly, and others in all probability (not least Rafiq) will soon be following Bresnan and Rashid.

Enough is enough, and the time has come for the counties to say "No!" and to say it loudly.

And finally, yes, from somewhere Yorkshire need to acquire or develop a world class strike bowler. The problem is that there do not seem to be very many of these available anywhere in the world at present, and should the likes of Shazhad kick on, they will undoubtedly find themselves on the Western Front.

Some good points tony.

Playing Devil's advocate for a moment...

Maybe the answer is to sign plenty of older players already disregarded by England, who play at a high level but are not deemed good enough to play internationally. Mags and Mal Loye types.

If the county game is going to be taken seriously by fans as anything more than a net session for the England team we need to put the county first and let England take care of itself.

Just developing lots of young starlets to be taken off our hands as they reach their prime may be a waste of our resources.

These are not incompatible. More careful attention to the structuring of the fixture list, together with a more real-world approach to securing the needs of Team England, could lead to a much stronger cricket infra-structure in the UK and both the counties and Team England would be the better.

Let's take Rashid as a case in point. This is a young man of exceptional talent who thrives best when he is doing plenty of balling. Since the end of the 2008 Season he has spent far more time carrying drinks around for pampered mediocrities than he has spent actually playing and honing his spin bowling skills. The likelihood is that Swann and Panesar will be preferred to him at least to begin with in the Ashes series. Should either of them fail, Rashid will be well-equipped to act as drinks waiter, but considerably short of match fitness to take over in the bowling department.

He could have been playing for Yorkshire and taking wickets all summer, preparing him to play in a Test Match should the opportunity/need arise. Instead, his own, Yorkshire's and England's needs have all been ignored in order to perpetuate the caravan/circus surrounding team England which believes that cricketers get better by not playing the game.

In the week that Michael Vaughan has finally succumbed to the inevitable outcome of this rationale, it would be wise to question, take stock of what is happening and seek to achieve a more sensibly balanced approach to the development of English cricket.

Alternatively, continue along the current path and "kill the bird that lays the golden egg"!

I appreciate all that you say and genuinely did enjoy your report. Couldn't help having a bit of a dig, all the same, about Michael Vaughan and TIm Bresnan, but I hope you'll take it in the spirit in which it was intended, which I assure you was not malicious.
Have to admit to being a bit grumpy this morning, as my ankle was giving me terrible pain. I played what I suspect will be my very last cricket match last weekend (Old Moseley Arms v President's XI) and had to retire hurt on 24 (42 balls, 4 fours) with cramp in both legs. At 55 years of age, tempus has fugited away, I'm afraid, but you'll be relieved to know that I won't be holding a press conference to announce my departure from all forms of cricket. Then again, perhaps I should speak to my agent...

I find it inexplicable that some advocate the way forward to be settling for a draw when victory is a possiibility.
Some have critiscised Mags for setting Somerset a last day 4th innings target,never previously achieved in the whole history of The County
Championship,hardly a reckless move.
Yorkshire bowled out Somerset in under 80 overs in their first innings,and knowing they'd chase in the second,the declarationn was entirely justified.
It cost Yorks,but four points in pursuit of fourteen ,which on other days could have been achieved.
Mags got it right,but lost the game,what stick he'd have come in for had he not declared as advocated by a few misguided souls on here.
What we do need to look at is the ridiculous points system in the championship which actually rewards mediocrity and encourages the sought of negativity,and settling for a no-result we often see.
Why try for 18 or 20 points for winning,when you can get 12 by playing for a draw from day one?
What earthly use are bonus points,when they take precedent over trying to win a game?
When staying in the top division is the most important aim,the fear of relegation will always be uppermost in the captain's mind.
Scrap two divisions,they do not make for more competitive cricket,rather more boring draws as avoidance of defeat becomes paramount.
Who needs them,they are destroying the county game.
In Australia it's six for a win and 2 for first-innings lead whatever the result.
It produces a far higher ratio of positive results,cricketers who set out to win matches,rather than not lose and makes for a far better spectacle.

Excellent report by TC and although I followed the game from a distance, much which you write reflects my feeling about events.

I too sense a positiveness about the team and beleive we can stay in div 1.

The declaration was not reckless but it was pointless and thats my critisism. I really don't think we were very going to get 10 wickets despite what we achieved in the 1st innings. For the season as a whole, why not take 12 points, along with the positives from the game, avoid defeat and come back to Leeds for the Durham game feeling good about the world?

I think the positives outweight the negatives from this game, but, for such a young team, defeat is hard to carry.

I know what you are getting at as we discussed it at the time. We concluded that 500+ could not be achieved, but as things turned out I think we would have been wrong.

However, we really thought that, even on this pitch, and even with our attack, Somerset would not get 476 to win; and we doubted, given their first innings effort that they could actually achieve the draw.

What we did not take into account was that one consequence of the T20 experience is that totals which would once have been deemed unassailable can now be got. Anything is achieveable almost!

Even so, it was a close run thing and if the catch offered by Stiff had been taken things might have turned out very differently.

If we accept that, until the relationship between the Counties and Team England is rebalanced, the best YCCC can hope for, given its key role in developing cricketing talent, is a life with few County Championships and periodic relegation to Division 2; it follows that we might as well concentrate on playing excellent cricket and similarly accept that we are not often going to be pre-eminent in the County Championship.

Short of going down the silver collecting route adopted by friend and foe alike, and importing "has beens", "never wases" and mediocre mercenaries I think we have little choice but toplay the best cricket we can from within our own developmental approach and live with the consequences. It will be much better cricket and much more fun to watch. I buy my annual subscription and turn up both at home and away as often as I can to be inspired by good cricket. For me, the result is not unimportant, but it is of secondary importance to the quality of the cricket.

Cleasby, can you remind us when you last, if ever, got a prediction correct? Why do you bother, you know nothing about the game.



edited 12 times by Maan in 5 minutes

Maan, you are fast becoming the resident wind-up merchant. Methinks you may be an alien from another Yorkshire cricket forum. Why don't pay attention to the cricket rather than attacking other posters? (one in particular)

Don't worry on my account Niall.
The Maan's an idiot,who I tried to educate elsewhere,when he was embarrassing himself.
Sadly,like many ,he ended up making a complete fool of himself,as he now continues to demonstrate with his insults and provocation.
He knows nothing,can offer nothing,and I'll not be responding to his nonsense.
Best to ignore fools like him,and they'll soon fade away.

"...and I'll not be responding to his nonsense."

Calling the "maan" a complete fool, embarrassing and an idiot, would seem to a response of sorts.

You need to learn let well enough alone.