The issue with Anthony McGrath is transparently clear to me, he isn't enjoying it and its crippled his batting. Thanks Anthony can we try someone else.
Martyn Moxon, more difficult OK its been nearly awful but the players have shown grit and determination and not a little talent at times and we are still there, if we can get a decent overseas bowler and keep the ones we have we could even challenge for something next year.
if even just for the rule that when Martyn goes the team go on to win a trophy in the next year
This message has been edited by AlexRoberts on Sep 27, 2009 9:30 PM
if they are to go then you need to make sure you have someone lined up to replace them who will be better.
No point sacking them now and then spending ages looking around for a replacement only to find there are no options or worse options.
Captain is easier as we have a squad of other players already to choose from.
Sayers - pros are he is the most cerebral player and has rediscovered his 4 day form to guarantee him a CC place. Cons are he is not in the one day team and why risk losing his rediscovered form by giving him the captaincy?
Gale - pros are he is a regular in all forms of the game and appears to be the sort of guy who would not be phased by captaining the side. Cons are he has never struck me as someone who would be tactically astute.
Rudolph - pros are he is a certainty in all forms of the game and he has the greatest experience in the team and commands the respect of everyone. Cons are whether he will be hear next season if some rumours are correct and also whether the captaincy burden would upset his game as it has mags.
Hoggy - a return to the days of Gough as skipper when the jovial former england fast bowler leads the team from the front with passion and heart on his sleeve. Cons are his lack of past leadership skills, his one day irregular appearances and the fact that its too soon in the memory since Gough led the team with no success. Would being skipper guarantee his services next year?
And the only other option is to do a Durham or Somerset and get an overseas player in as skipper - Graeme Smith for example. Not too sure of any fast bowlers who would make a good overseas option and captain.
As for replacing Moxon I would suggest a complete outsider as we did with Clark a few years back. Yes there was relegation but there was also a title and some fresh blood from outside the cosy old boys network is what is needed now more than ever.
So, if both do go then I hope the committee already have names in the frame and its not Adams!
I don't think either should "go."
I'd like Mags to step down or be relieved of the captaincy and go back to being the mainstay of our midle order, and I'd like Moxon to stay as coach. You only have to look a the talent in our seconds and Academy to know that there isn't much wrong with the club as a whole. We just need a captain that can instil confidence in the players, and go into every single session of every single game with a clear idea of what we need to achieve and an aggressive sense of purpose...
I totally agree with Steve - Moxon must stay. As he has correctly stated, there is a lot obviously right with coaching and development at the club given the Academy and 2nd team success. I'm not sure that he is naturally a figure who leads from the front and that is why we need a strong captain. In any case that's not his job - the captain leads tactics on the field.
I'd love to know what others think is in the job description of Director of Professional Cricket. To me that is about organising the development of all the pros at the club, not just the first team. In a lot of ways that actually seems to be going quite well!!! Perhaps some of the "must go" posters would help me understand their case by saying what they would do better. It's easy to say get rid, not quite so easy to define the alternative solution!
Sack the board, sack the coach.....it's a familiar moan from the terrace-side classes. There may be occasions when it proves effective but I doubt that this is an instance.
Yorkshire are clearly hampered by financial constraints - witness Moxon's face when Charles Colville suggested to him during the interval of the Glos game that Yorks could 'splash the cash'. A new coach will not solve that problem.
I think most people on this site welcomed Moxon back to the club at a time when we knew the club was struggling. It is no great surprise that he has been unable to lead us to greater glory from the position he inherited. Indeed it may be some credit to him that we have held on in the first division. I certainly wouldn't have fancied our chances of an immediate promotion from the second division.
As for Anthony McGrath I do agree that we should ask him to step down. A good captain should show leadership in the field; take wickets through imaginative captaincy; and inspire the team to play dynamic cricket. I think it's clear to most that our skipper falls some way short in all these categories. It's not clear at this point who should take over, but that does not refute the need for a change.
As for our overseas player, I would favour playing without an overseas and investing the money in Shahzad, Wainwright and the rest, if that enables us to maintain our current squad.
One fact worth thinking about re our low number of wins. Three of the teams above us in the table won only one more game. Perhaps winning in the current CC on flat and placid pitches is not as easy as some would seem to think. Only Durham seem to manage it regularly, and their bowling attack must be one of the best in the CC for years
Despite many complaints from various posters on this site, my self included, we have got the second highest number of bowling points in Division One this season. Perhaps after all our bowling attack is not that bad?
No bowlers on the team with an average under 30, a team average over 40 and we managed to bowl only two sides out twice. Besides gaining bowling points is much to do with taking wickets as it is with how long the other team bats. Almost every team we played this year was still batting at the 120-over mark, so we had more opportunities to gain bowling points because our bowlers were so inept.
If we don't add at laest two quality bowlers next year, it will only get worse.
Alltering the square to produce result wickets next season has to be the priority,not changing captain or coach.Any in coming captain would find it just as difficult to win games on the dead Headingly wickets,the test pitch is the only one not have been relaid and its the only result wicket left.
Lets learn from this season,fix the most important thing first and thats the wickets.
Find it strange there is some who believe we should go without an overseas player. Why not go the whole hog and abolish anyone who was not born within the ridings?
We've been down the road of playing with one hand tied behind our backs before and it brought nothing good and eventual revolution.
Doesn't even have to be one player we sign. Other counties dovetail overseas signings. I'm sure it would not take Einstein to employ two if needs must.
Agreed we need quality, but in this day and age it might take two to cover a full season.
If 17 other counties think they can, I'd hate to be the only county who think they can't, or are so arrogant to believe they don't need a little outside help.
We essentially played without an overseas player this season, for all Rana Naved contributed. (He only took 10 wickets in the FOUR! CC matches he played.) And where did it get us:? 7th place and no trophies!
You cannot compete in the modern County Championship without an effective overseas player.
I have no particular insight into the County's finances but I'm not getting the impression that there is a huge kitty for the players. If funds weren't quite tightly constrained, I doubt that either Hoggard or Shahzad would be looking at the possibility of moving on.
I guess that quite a skilled juggling act is going on in order to balance the books and keep everyone happy. Rashid and Bresnan's 1 day contract with the ECB will help inflate the kitty but hard decisions will still need to be taken.
Hopefully it will not come down to releasing players in order to secure the services of an overseas player; however this must be a possibility. I wouldn't even dispense with a car park attendant in order to pay for a player such as Rana! We must be very sure that the overseas player/s we employ will give full value to the club for most, if not all, of the season. If we can't find such a player/s then don't bother. I'd rather we ensure that players we have brought through our own academy system remain at the Club. If the choice is to be between an overseas player and our own home-grown talent, I have no doubt which I would opt for. Shahzad in 2010 is likely to have more impact than anyone other than the very highest quality import. International class seamers available to play for most of a season are as rare as hen's teeth. Anything less than that would be a duff investment.
Not really sure why our finances should be any worse than most other counties and they ought to be better than most to be honest.
Lancashire are almost ready to transform Old Trafford yet I'm certain they will offord an overseas player next season. Durham are looking to continue to expand at the Riverside yet continue to sign up anyone they think they need. Surrey have rebuilt the Oval yet seem to sign up lots of the best players but somehow manage to turn them into under-achieving division two players.
We surely have the money to keep what we have AND sign up one or two world class overseas players to cover the full season?
Kenny, the reason why our finances are more constrained than anyone else is largely due to the debt we have on our balance sheet. We bought our ground in 2005 in order to keep our staging agreement for international cricket until 2019 - otherwise we would have lost it! That involved a £9m loan from Leeds City Council. We are also carrying a c£5m loan from HSBC from the time the club got into financial difficulty when building the East Stand. In addition we have borrowed extra monies (c£4.5m) to exit the contracts with LCF&A (Paul Caddick) thus allowing us to build the new Pavilion. The result is a need to find around £900k in interest payments every year just to stand still!
Despite this, we have delivered 3 successive profits in 2006, 2007 and 2008 through sheer hard work and prudent management. 2009 will be another successful year thanks to the Ashes Test - all 3 days of it! That said, we have no Test Match in 2011 so we will need to be very careful in managing our cost base going forward.
Because of the new work permit regulations restricting Kolpaks and overseas players (with limited international experience), the growth of the IPL, the fixture congestion caused by additional worldwide tournaments and the incentives now offered for playing young English qualified players, there is a real gold rush for talented players. We have had more approaches in this season for our bowlers than the last three years put together. Salaries are escalating as a result and we cannot keep everyone. We are working hard to secure our young talent but will not be bounced by agents who are only interested in short-term deals and/or huge contracts.
It doesn't take a genius to read between those lines. It's a sad day when cricket becomes as agent-obsessed as football. I think Stewart is right to state it so clearly - of course we wantto keep our best bowlers - AJ and Hogmeister - but not at ANY price...
Once again thanks to Mr Regan for taking the time and trouble to post on this site. As usual there is an obvious desire to do what is right for Yorkshire and some solid commercial common sense. We would all love Hoggy and AJ to be with us next year, but Mr R is right not to give in to the agents. Where would it end? Sadly the finances aren't great and the long term future of our great club is dependent on good financial control. If he gives in now, the problem merely escalates. Whilst Hoggy and AJ have every right to do what they think is best for themselves and their families, I hope that both remember what a pride there is to play for Yorkshire. Sometimes there are things more important than money!!!!
If any county can afford to take the long term view it is surely YCCC.
In this context the needs of the Club must always come before the aspirations of individual players.
To paraphrase the words of Brian Sellers, If the player.... "doesn't like it, he can B----r Off, and anyone who agrees with him can do the same!"
As I understand it the player in question did just that and some would argue that the decline of YCCC can be dated from that event.
I take a different view which conceives that Yorkshire's problems really started with the sacking of Close which was nothing to do with any contractual differences, but rather was tied up with Close's view that one-day cricket was not really worth the candle.
As I observe the promotion of T20 from a stand-point of bewilderment and loathing, I cannot but reflect that DBC has been proven amply correct.
YCCC has been around for a long time, long after the individuals who were fortunate enough to play have passed on.
Mr Reagan is absolutely correct to say that he and the Board will take a measured view and will not be pressured by agents concerned only with their own "bottom-line"!
the really sad part is that I suspect in some cases the agents involved are former players who have served Yorkshire well over many years. I think Richard Blakey is one who is (or was) operating in this capacity.
I don't know who Hoggy and Ajmal have as agents but i do seem to recall that Blakey had linked up with a number of our players.
Its disappointing that the agent role has crept in to cricket like it has in football but it was inevitable with the increased money on offer.
However, its a shame that the agents don't use their connections to increase the players personal wealth through other means instead of hawking them out to other counties for higher salaries and then taking their 10% cut on the deal.
if we dig our toes in and say we will not deal with agents we will never sign anyone as virtually every pro player has an agent. we just have to identify who we want and pay the going rate. we have to accept that in a short career players will try to get the best contract they can get. and that will inevitably mean dealing with agents.
well in that case we had better be creative in how we are going to finance contracts as it appears as though paying players over-inflated salaries via the normal means is not an option.
The Younus Khan deal 2 years ago seemed to involve some funding from the local Asian community from memory.
If we cannot afford to sign new players then keeping the decent ones we do have is vitally important. If they have had heads turned by other counties offering higher salaries then are we happy to be held to ransom?
case study 1- Middlesex offer Shahzad 10k more a year than he is currently on at Yorkshire. His agent comes to the YCCC Board and says what are you going to do about it? We up his salary 10k to keep him. Hoggy then does the same. As a result membership fees go up 10%.
or do we just tell the agent to get lost and persevere with our youngsters?
I suspect Hoggy and Shahzad would stay at Yorkshire if they could get the same financial offer as another county would give them. However, there is then the knock on effect on the other players who come out of contract at the end of next season.
There may be some short term pain to help overcome the long term gain of owning the ground, having new pavilions and better conditions at Headingley. And now you know why the club want to maximise revenue streams from Headingley and not see money go to Scarborough despite its romanticism.
So if any of you have a spare million perhaps you could donate to help the club pay salaries for the players we want for the next few years.