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The last of the ( magnificent ) seven: who was the best?

October 13 2009 at 9:02 PM
Dave  (no login)

 
Well, with the releasing of Hoggy that completes the end of the era of seven wonderful Yorks fast bowlers who were all with the club in 2001:

Gough
White
Silverwood
Sidebottom
Hamilton
Hutchinson
Hoggard

All have (or ended their playing careers with) a f-c bowling average in the 20s , all played for England (except Hutchison ), on their day all seven were match winners.

But who was the best ? I imagine the consensus will be between Gough and Hoggy but if he had not been injured Paul Hutchinson might have gone on to be the greatest of them all. Back in 2000 he had taken 148 wickets at about 22 with seven five fors and a best of 7-31.

So who do you think was the best ?

 
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Steve C
(no login)

oooooo. That's good.

October 13 2009, 9:35 PM 

I just know that Dpressed is going to leap in and say G*ugh, so I'll beat him to it.
Of all those players, I actually think that Craig White was probably the best cricketer among them. On his day he was probably the fastest of them all (although Gough might disagree). When fit , which wasn't as often as it should have been, he was accurate and hostile and always seemed capable of taking a wicket. I think it was unfortunate that he settled into the role of first change, tending to bowl long containing spells with an old ball. I would have loved to see him used for short atacking spells and told to attack more often.
He was also of course a fine batsman, and one of the few Yorkshire players (of that time) capable of changing a game in a couple of hours. I fear his body let him down, and I also wonder whether he had quite the bloody minded ruthless determination required of a World Class sportsman of the very highest rank. Perhaps he wasn't quite Australian enough - too often he seemed satisfied to do "okay".
Of the rest, I loved watching Hutchison bowl - but he could be infuriatingly wasteful. We really were spoilt for choice in those days - how quickly they all disappeared..

 
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dpressed
(Login dpressed)

Re: oooooo. That's good.

October 13 2009, 11:30 PM 

My first comment is that by 2001 Hutch was effectively gone (due to injury), as was Gavin Hamilton. One reason I dislike G**gh was that one the day we received the trophy Darren was out with the Essex team (his mate Grayson) rather than the Yorkshire team. G**gh actually only played a cuple of games for Yorks that season due to test matches.

Agree that White could be the best .... we really missed Craig's bowling afher the body game up.

Ryan was involved in 2001 ... but his best days were still to come ... arguebly after he moved to Notts.

There is another bowler that hasn't been mentioned ..... when Hoggy was called up half way through the Kent game a ginger haired trialist was brought in ... name of Steve Kirby ..... funily enough I was looking atthe Glouc thread on a general forum .... the highest rated player was one Steve Kirby.


 
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Tyke 1950
(no login)

Re: oooooo. That's good.

October 13 2009, 11:58 PM 

The one I expected to be most successful was Chris Silverwood - strong, fit, mature, shrewd - and then it seemed as if someone told him to bowl fast and he lost a lot of his devil! Most odd.
Paul Hutchison was lovely to watch in full flow- a highly strung and fragile thoroughbred.
In my view, Gavin Hamilton the bowler far exceeded Gavin Hamilton the batsman - but he lost his way in a moment it seemed. Tragic for him and a really serious loss for Yorkshire.
Of the seven listed, Sidebottom impressed me least - but we didn't see the best of him at Yorkshire. Compared to Hutchison he seemed clumsy and guileless - he ceratinly learned!!
Craig White was a special favourite. The spin bowler who became a demon quickie! He could conjure up magical spells of bowling which turned games - but his cover drive on the up was a joy. His destruction of Surrey in a one-day semi-final was so wonderful! I remember a murderous assault at Leicester in a Sunday game at around the same time. Yet he seemed prone to bouts of self-doubt and when playing for England (sometimes with distinction) gave the impression of not believing he really belonged.
Matthew Hoggard looked a carthorse when I first saw him play in The Parks at Oxford. When he played for England I doubted the wisdom of the selectors - yet his statistics speak volumes. He had the knack of finding ways to take wickets. At his very best he had mesmeric control of swing and was too good for the even the greatest batsmen. He seemed to acquire a curious detachment from affairs, as his powers waned. He would pace about the outfield uttering turette-like noises in a most disconcerting way, which emphasised his growing reputation for eccentricity.
I would choose Darren Gough as the best of those listed. He made the very most of his ability and played with a swagger and zest that was as irresistible as his smile. He was certainly cocky and irritating in his arrogance - but almost until the end, he had so much to be arrogant about! He was a cunning and clever bowler. He wasn't a natural athlete but acquired the self-discipline to hold his demons (probably kebab shaped!) at bay. He had real charisma! He had some enemies but how often do you ever hear his contemporaries belittle his contribution to the teams he played for?
We've had some terrific seam bowlers at Yorkshire in the last 10 - 15 years. (I'd probably add Kirby to the list offered for consideration.)
For me, Gough was the best and, in my opinion, the best since Fred with Chris Old only a little way behind.

 
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NIck Hobbes
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Re: oooooo. That's good.

October 14 2009, 12:58 AM 

Gough, Hoggard and Sids, in that order.

 
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triple centurian
(no login)

Re: oooooo. That's good.

October 14 2009, 7:56 AM 

best in their career or best in a Yorkshire shirt?

Not sure either of Gough or Hoggard would class as Yorkshire greats over their career as most of their best years were spent with Team England (or injured in Goughs case).

I would also factor in several other areas when deciding such as loyalty (Gough loses out for going to Essex), commitment, variety and contribution to the club.

White was the most talented all round player of the bunch with his fielding, spin bowling and batting being better than all the others (virtually put together). He has captained the team and also now the 2nd team where he is bringing on the next generation. His fast bowling and reverse swing were just as quick if not quicker than the others mentioned and he could have achieved so much more if injuries did not hamper him.

I would rank White ahead of the others, Hoggy second, Gough third (he thought he was better than he actually was) and for variety Hutch 4th to give the left arm option ahead of Sids who as has been mentioned already only really improved when moving away.

 
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Gary Ashton
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Re: oooooo. That's good.

October 14 2009, 8:58 AM 

Interesting thread with some interesting responses !......I would vote for Gough just slightly ahead of White

 
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stephenf
(no login)

swing and seam

October 14 2009, 9:15 AM 

technically gough because he is the only one on this list who could switch comfortably and consistently between swing and seam bowling, and also had other variations delivered consistently and effectively

 
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Steve C
(no login)

Interesting stuff

October 14 2009, 10:18 AM 

It would be lovely to know more about the influence Craig is still having on the next generation of young players.
I wonder if Bressy will ever be as good as Craig - or does he have the potenial to be better...?

 
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tony cronshaw
(no login)

The Best?

October 14 2009, 11:23 AM 

Not sure!

Hutichinson was something special.

Silverwood the most consistently pacey.

Gough, probably the cleverest and certainly the noisiest.

Hoggard, strangely detached.

Hamilton; so much unfulfilled potential.

White, on his day, the quickest of the lot.

Sidebottom, oddly injury prone!

Kirby, the most aggressive and probably the most determined.

And by the way, let's not foget "Jack" Hartley; the most consistently whole-hearted.

 
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dpressed
(Login dpressed)

Re: The Best?

October 14 2009, 11:43 AM 

I'll add a bowler who would probably have been a Yorkshire favourite for years ... but unfortunately came through at the wrong time ..... this bowler's first 2 first class wickets were Brian Lara & Mike Atherton and he went on to play 1 day cricket for England. the guy left Yorks in 1997 & has just retired from Glamorgan .... his name is Alex Wharf.

btw at times PJ Hartley was our pace atack in the early 1990s but by 2001 had retired after 3 years down at Hampshire ... thankfully Jack's last championship game for Hants was against Yorks so everyone could give him a well deserved good send off (My only visit to the old Southampton ground & the last match there ... Yorks won off the last possible ball of the game)

 
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(Login stu789)
Assistant Moderator

the best

October 15 2009, 11:14 AM 

My choice.

The quickest was White with Silverwood a close second.

The best 1 day bowler was Gough and the best CC bowler was Hoggard.

Siddy was poor when at Yorkshire but improved immensely after leaving.

Hutchinson was erratic but could be devastating very occasionally.

Kirby was hostile and bowled great spells at times but erratic and loose most of the time.


 
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dpressed
(no login)

Re: the best

October 15 2009, 11:42 AM 

This thread had brought back a couple of memories ... both against Worcs

The first is Hamilton who was having a 'good day' when bowling in a Sunday league game at New Road. Seeing my mate scoring Gav came up & asked 'what are my figures please' .... as with most Yorkies I was sad when 'the yips' got the better of him. As Hami was someone who always gave 100% he was liked by the vast majority of members

The 2nd was Hutchison ... aka the shooting star. In 1999 or 2000 Yorks played against Worcs at Headingley. It was a warm clammy morning. Hutch took a number of wickets. One stands out as one of the best I've ever seen. The batsman left a delivery alone as it was obviously going down the leg side. ... only for the ball to 'boomerang' back in & bowl (york) the poor batsman who just stood there completely & utterly bemused ... the original banana ball

 
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dpressed
(Login dpressed)

Re: the best

October 15 2009, 11:46 AM 

btw My take on White was that whilst there was the odd really fast ball his biggest posivite was that he was quicker than he looked ... many of Craig's wickets were got by balls that the batsman played too late .... again a shame that the body couldn't last.

 
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Steve C
(no login)

Hah!

October 15 2009, 11:52 AM 

Now I KNOW you're lying.
"A warm clammy evening". At Headingley?

 
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dpressed
(Login dpressed)

Re: Hah!

October 15 2009, 12:34 PM 

Now I know that people dont read my postings on here .... I said a warm clammy MORNING ... Worcs batted first ... from the scorecard my guess is that the batsman was Leatherdale

http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Archive/Scorecards/68/68199.html

btw Hutchison was bowling up the hill from the Football Stand End


    
This message has been edited by dpressed on Oct 15, 2009 12:36 PM


 
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Lynn
(no login)

Re: Hah!

October 15 2009, 12:38 PM 

We love your post, Dpressed.

 
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Lynn
(no login)

Re: Hah!

October 15 2009, 12:39 PM 

And your post(s)

 
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