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Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Day 4

November 20 2016, 8:09 AM 

Credit where credits due, I haven't seen it yet but another 4 wickets for Rashid this morning. His test bowling average is just over 40 now so another small step towards respectability for a leg spinner.

Dare I say it he is becoming an integral member of the team, in this series at least.

Hope we get a fascinating finale rather than a damp squib for the rest of day 4 and hopefully day 5.

 
 
Guest
(Login Fozzie1973)

Re: Day 4

November 20 2016, 12:29 PM 

Decent effort by England today showed a lot of fight, losing Cook at the death probably going to be decisive but at least they go into the last day with a fighting chance of saving the game

Top effort from Cook & Hameed showed great concentration to bat for so long

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Day 4

November 20 2016, 7:54 PM 

Think there might be a few more shooters about like the one that did for Hameed on the final day so it's going to be tough. But where there's life there's hope as they say.

Don't expect England to hold on, but if they do go down, I hope they make India fight for every wicket. Especially as I have a long car journey in the morning and I like to be entertained.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 9:51 AM 

Bairstow really needs to be batting higher than 7, preferably at 4. If that means he can't keep too then so be it, although shouldn't be an issue if England are batting first.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 10:59 AM 

Buttler will no doubt come in for Duckett. Bayliss has said that Bairstow will keep whatever, which has to be the correct position. His keeping has been excellent this winter, and excellent in this match.

It is a matter of debate as to whether Buttler is the better keeper, but given his lack of match practice it would be madness to bring him into the fray as keeper now.

 
 
Leg Glance
(Login legglance)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 1:22 PM 

I would say that Jonny's keeping, whilst still developing, has improved enough to declare him as markedly ahead of Buttler with the gloves on.

The sadder fact is that Buttler, a player who rarely plays 'proper' cricket, and has a poor record when he does,is even being considered as a Test batsman.

Are there any players on standby or playing elsewhere who could provide a better option?

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 1:44 PM 

Wicket-keeping is a different matter - neither candidate is up to traditional test standard, though Jonny seems to be making progress. As a batsman however, despite Buttler's brilliance in white ball cricket, I can't see how you can make a case for someone with a first class average of 32. That's four better than Andrew Hodd, who has scored the same number of first class centuries, and poor old Hoddy gets stick on here for not being good enough to bat number seven for Yorkshire. I suspect the best man for the job in the current situation is probably Ian Bell.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 2:12 PM 

Yes, its a worry when Bayliss is forced into making a judgement on the basis of Buttler "looking pretty good in the nets"

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 2:39 PM 

You talk of Jos Buttler's average as a factor why he shouldn't be considered yet believe the solution to be Ian Bell who averages 27 in India (he also only averages 17 on the spinning tracks of the UAE). Now I'm a big Ian Bell fan but even I'd struggle to justify going back to him based on that record.

 
 
Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 2:46 PM 

You're probably right. I hadn't looked Bell up and had the impression that he had done a bit better than that. I don't actually think averages are that important, for me it was just an illustration of the fact that Buttler is nowhere near test class as a batsman. If Jonny wasn't p[laying, Buttler could take his place and bat at eight. He'd come off once in a series. To suggest he should have a batting place is nonsense, and the fact that some pundits are suggesting it shows how much their lives are dominated by the shorter forms of the game these days.

We have said often enough that England don't have a quality spinner. Is it now the case - possibly as a result - that they don't have a quality player of spin bowling either?

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 4:41 PM 

The Lions should be in their training camp in in the UAE by now, I think Bayliss should think about calling up someone like Westley or Bell Drummond to join up with the England team. Surely either of those would be a better bet than Buttler, the 3rd test doesn't start until Sunday so there is time for some acclimatization.

If Duckett and Ballance are deemed to be too out of form to be picked then we certainly need someone else in the mix just in case one of the top five pulls a fetlock.

Anderson bowled well but he scored zero runs, we missed Woakes's batting and he has to play, probably instead of Ansari. Root could take up the slack to help out Ali and Rashid in the spin department.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 4:54 PM 

"Root could take up the slack to help out Ali and Rashid in the spin department."

When will we learn that part time spinners aren't any sort of solution, Root would just be milked.

I suspect Woakes will play, probably instead of Broad, who is injured.


 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 5:05 PM 

I guess Woakes comes in for Broad and Batty for Ansari unless they opt for more seamers in which case Ball. The bowling side is pretty straightforward

As for a replacement for Duckett, it may well be the right call to bring in someone else, but only if we actually have any confidence that the likes of Westley and Bell-Drummond are going to be any better than what is there right now. Nobody can say that Duckett is out of form - his problem is technical. There may be no alternative but it isn't ideal is it?

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 5:23 PM 

I would be very surprised to see England pick more than 2 spinners for Mohali. Root could hardly do worse than Ansari if called upon to bowl a couple of overs here and there. I know he was sick but he looks short of confidence.

If they can get Broad fit enough to play that would be a bonus, he bowled well in the 2nd innings despite his injury.

 
 
Guest
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 5:30 PM 

In my view England will be best advised making the best of the talent already available in India. These players are acclimatised and have been focussed on the specific challenge for several weeks.
I see no advantage either for England or the players concerned if Westley, Bell-Drummond or somebody else is drafted in. The likelihood is they will struggle as much as Duckett and some of the others.
Back in September, I would have been tempted to take Gubbins, but the selectors opted for Hameed and have been proved right. If Gubbins were available and match fit, he would be the only player I might consider drafting in at this stage.

The selection of Buttler looks inevitable. I wish him well but feel the task is almost unfair on him. He's played one first class game in the past year and has a poor sub-continental record. Unless England select him to bat at four, his presence in the team will require unsettling changes to the batting order.
Sadly for him, there's only one Jonny Bairstow and he will be playing as England's wicketkeeper-batsman for a long time.
His enormous consolation is that he is a superlative white ball player, likely to make enormous sums of money and gain enormous kudos in that form of the game.

So long as his self-confidence isn't shot to pieces, I'd stick with Duckett and invest in him for the future.

 
 
Gary Watton
(Login GaryFulford)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 9:31 PM 

That defeat was effectively an innings defeat, as England's two measly totals didn't exceed India's first innings. Twas good to see the Tyke trio make good contributions. Bairstow should be bumped up the batting order, with Buttler replacing Duckett. I would like to have seen Duckett flourish, but he is following Ballance and Vince (and Hales) as another top order flop in recent months. England I'm afraid couldn't bat against a spin dryer, let alone a spin bowler.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Day 4

November 21 2016, 10:03 PM 

Butlers lack of first class cricket is partly his own fault for playing in the IPL with the ECB approval.

Injury in some one day games also kept him away.

If he is the answer then it's not at number 4 with bairstow at 7 continually left stranded with a tail that collapses like a set of dominoes. I know it's tough keeping and batting in India but surely the leading test run getter in this year needs to bat higher

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Bump him up the order

November 21 2016, 10:14 PM 

If I understand the reasoning correctly Bairstow is batting at 7 to give him time to recover from a long spell keeping wicket. I think in this team his natural position would be to bat at 5.

If England have been in the field for most of the day then you would think the no 5 batsman shouldn't usually be called on to bat until the next day.

If they have only had a session, or a session and a bit in the field, then why wouldn't he be ready to bat after a couple of hours rest.

We might of course have the odd collapse where he is batting without much of a break, but in that situation he is just the man to stop the rot.

 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Bump him up the order

November 21 2016, 11:55 PM 

The engine room at 6 and 7 has been highly effective. Don't tamper with it.
England are not in crisis mode and don't require wholesale change.
Let' s see where we are after Mohali.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Bump him up the order

November 22 2016, 6:19 AM 

Well he's already effectively batting at 6 due to Duckett or Ballance failures.

It's hardly a wholesale change to move a player up the order. It's to avoid a situation where his runs are not left out in the middle when he runs out of partners.

 
 
 
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