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Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Back to the test

November 28 2016, 6:10 PM 

India make it look so easy while we make it look so hard. The batsmen are reaping the pressure they sowed in the first innings. Ashwin and co can bowl away to attacking fields without a care in the world.

As expected it seems they are better than us in these conditions and we haven't helped ourselves by our abysmal batting.

Will get up in the morning, just after lunch their time, hoping against hope that Root is still batting, and that Hameed is fit to bat. Perhaps Buttler will be about to launch a stunning counter attack leaving India to get 250 on a minefield!.

I don't even believe my own optimism anymore, more likely the game will be over or India will be well on the way to chasing 50 odd to win.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Back to the test

November 28 2016, 8:24 PM 

Sadly Ballance and Duckett have been found out at this level but I think they were probably both the best options when the party was selected. You can't expect all your fringe players and new squad members to hit it off from the start but the problem with this tour party is that only Hameed has stepped up whilst Duckett, Ballance, Ansari, Batty, Ball and Finn are not really contenders for a test place.

The error in not picking the best wicket taking spinner in the country is being exposed. Leach should have been a formality ahead of Batty and Ansari but they both play in London under the nose of the management of course. As does Finn who flatters to deceive in my view.

But the answer some punter was suggesting on Talksport (who had stopped wittering about football for 5 minutes) is not Bell or Pietersen. Bell has had a dismal county season and his selection would have sent out the wrong message to all county players.

It's also clear to me that there is a gulf between the two divisions as Duckett has proved. So talk of Bell Drummond, Billings or the laughable Northeast along with Westley or Clarke are all premature until they have some did 1 runs to show ability at a higher level than their current standard.

So who are the best alternative batsmen in the top division? Middlesex won the title and Robson and Gubbins were their openers who did well enough. Why not recall Robson who may be better second time around? Lyth is a better player and fielder but perhaps less suited to playing spinners in India. Vince has had a chance and not taken it. Lancashire have one talented player and he's in already. Davies or Roy at Surrey may be better in one day but still better options than some tried already. Hales wants to pick his tours and has had a chance and Trott and Trescothick are no longer wanting to tour as well as being a tad old now.

It's a worry that there is no one hammering at the door and whilst they will be in div 2 next season, surely Stoneman Jennnings or Borthwicks runs at Durhsm should have seen at least one given the chance? Or have the ECB got a complete downer on Durham and nicking their players might have led to central contracts for one or more of them to ease their financial plight?

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Back to the test

November 28 2016, 8:57 PM 

I hear it might be possible for Hameed to bat at some stage tomorrow but then be effectively out for the rest of the tour.

I hear what people say about the inadvisability of calling for replacements but all things being equal, if he is in the Dubai already, and as it's an opener we are talking about, I think Keaton Jennings is a good shout.

After all didn't Alistair Cook get called over from a Lions tour in the West Indies to make his debut in India. And look what happened to him.

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Back to the test

November 28 2016, 8:59 PM 

Duckett may not be up to it. My own guess is that he'll be a one day international for a long time but is technically not a test player. However an Indian tour is unique and we shouldn't write him off on the basis of that. A month or two back we were welcoming a new star and still fantasising about Yorkshire signing him. Now he should be on the scrap heap.

 
 
Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: Back to the test

November 28 2016, 10:42 PM 

Duckett was mentioned as a potential replacement for Hodd by quite a few on here last season rather than be a top order batsman. Tests are being played during the T20 group stages so it would have worked out well for the club had he signed.


    
This message has been edited by Jacobus24 on Nov 29, 2016 7:02 AM


 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Back to the test

November 29 2016, 7:59 AM 

Where there's life there's hope. Fantastic effort from Hameed.

Rashid in a world of his own, again.

 
 

Guest
(Login matthefish2002)

Re: Back to the test

November 29 2016, 10:17 AM 

Sorry to read Hammed is out of the rest of the tour.

 
 
Leg Glance
(Login legglance)

Re: Back to the test

November 29 2016, 11:09 AM 

Is there a chance Joe will be opening the innings for the rest of the tour?

 
 
Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: Back to the test

November 29 2016, 11:14 AM 

Atherton and Hussain want Billings called up.

 
 
Lewis
(Login Lewis_116)

Re: Back to the test

November 29 2016, 8:48 PM 

Vaughan was also going on about Billings. To me he's nowhere near what we need.

I would go for Gubbins if anyone.

Whilst they are there call up Leach. Batty serves little purpose. Not convinced Ali deserves to bat in the top 6 either.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Back to the test

November 29 2016, 10:09 PM 

Billings is reputedly the bees knees when it comes to playing spin.

If that's true then with a first class batting average of just 33.03 I would suggest he must be pretty suspect when it comes playing quick bowlers.

He is a div 2 player with a record much inferior to Duckett.

They've taken what they have seen in T20 and 50 over cricket. I very much doubt any of them have seen him in a first class game.

However, he appears to be one of the chosen few, must be cos he's got nice teeth, so they are pushing him.

If the England selectors go for it we are truly doomed.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Back to the test

November 30 2016, 1:20 AM 

Deeply flawed selection in the first place. I didn't comment on Duckett because I had not seen him. How does a guy get runs in County cricket without being able to play a simple defensive stroke with a straight bat?

Joe Clarke I have seen, and Brett D'Oliveira for that matter, batting well against Rashid at Scarborough, and both are right-handed. I saw Bell-Drummond as a 17-year-old make a rather scratchy century for England U19 at Scarborough, and he's a right-handed specialist opener.

Gubbins and Jennings proved their worth beyond doubt, but perhaps this is not the time to introduce yet another inexperienced left-hander to be tortured by two off-spinners and an out-of-the-rough Jadeja. Even Cook is struggling to cope.

Billings I have not seen, that I can remember. It's amazing how many Kent players get a mention, considering they've been one of the worst teams in Div 2 for the last few years. Why not Fabian Bloody Cowdrey, then? I'm sure Rash would carry his bags for him.

So for me, on what I've seen, it's either Bell or Hildreth, of the older brigade, or Clarke as the best of the kids. Or possibly return to Robson, who did look good (for the first time ever!) against us at Scarborough.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Back to the test

November 30 2016, 8:38 AM 

Yes there was a time when all of the Kent team had been given a game..... Cowdrey (Chris not Colin), Ealham, McCague, Igglesden, Min Patel, Amjad Khan, Ed Smith...... all of whom did not last that long.

The selectors clearly liked the grounds on Kent when doing their research.

 
 
Old Feller
(Login Old_Feller2)

Re: Back to the test

November 30 2016, 9:58 AM 

Jennings and Dawson brought in to replace Hameed & Ansari.
So still no place for Leach!
But at least Jennings is an opener & form an erstwhile first division county.

 
 
Old Feller
(Login Old_Feller2)

Re: Back to the test

November 30 2016, 10:53 AM 

Maybe this is why there is no place for Leach, from an article in ESPN today:
"....Dawson was preferred to Jack Leach despite claiming only 20 Championship wickets in 2016 at a cost of 43.85 apiece. Leach claimed 65 Championship wickets at an average of 21.87 - no England-qualified player claimed more in Division One - but his Somerset captain in 2016, Chris Rogers, suggested he had "emotionally… a bit of a way to go" before he was ready for international cricket. Dawson is the better batsman and fielder, though, and is seen as a reliable, defensive spinner. His attitude impressed the England management when he played limited-overs cricket earlier in the year."

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Back to the test

November 30 2016, 11:36 AM 

I had not thought of Dawson, but he's an orthodox right-handed bat, who can open, and surely no worse a bowler than Ansari, whose very modest career returns (bat & ball) have been achieved at Cambridge Univ or at Surrey, in Div 2 until 2016.

Jennings, though left-handed, is at least a thoughtful, orthodox opener, much like the man he replaces. Same steely character, too.

 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: Back to the test

November 30 2016, 11:50 AM 

Its obvious that those picking players for the tour don't watch any county cricket. Anyone who saw Ballance's attempt to hit out on the last afternoon at Lords whould have realised that poor Gary was completely out of form. Yet they still picked him for Bangladesh. As I've said before this was bad for England & also for Ballance. Hopefully Gary will be able to get back to scoring runs for Yorkshire in 2017.

 
 
Roundhegian
(Login Roundhegian)

Re: Back to the test

December 1 2016, 11:25 AM 

Good article by Vic Marks in the Guardian with some very valid criticisms of the England management.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/30/keaton-jennings-liam-dawson-england-india

 
 
WR_Metcalfe
(Login WR_Metcalfe)

Re: Back to the test

December 1 2016, 11:47 AM 

I think too much weight is given to a players 'other skills' at the moment. A batsman should be judged on his ability to score centuries and a bowler on his ability to take 5 wickets. If the six best batsmen are all left handed, then the six best batsmen are all left handed. Selecting a player based on his handedness is foolishness in the extreme.

In what world are Ansari or Batty likely to take 5 wickets for England? Do you have faith in Duckett or Buttler to score a century in India?

 
 
 
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