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Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: new stand

December 23 2016, 10:54 AM 

This is not a brown field site. There are lots of complications (not least overcoming planning policy barriers to building on what is a protected playing pitch), so I suspect the banks take account of this when calculating the value of the land for borrowing purposes.

 
 
Peter (Don)
(Login Yfactor)

Re: new stand

December 23 2016, 3:40 PM 

YCCC don`t own the Hotel or the new Pavilion which we have to pay rent to the University to use. The rest of the site comprising cricket field and stands must be a valuable asset but would its sale pay off borrowing of £25 Million plus? I think its only the goodwill and support of interested parties such as Leeds Council and the ECB, who want Test Cricket to continue at Headingley, which will keep us afloat.

 
 
Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: new stand

December 23 2016, 6:46 PM 

I don't think any significant sympathy from the ECB would be viewed with much tolerance up the road at Durham.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: new stand

January 4 2017, 1:09 PM 

A report is going to next week's plans panel recommending approval for the stand application. As we know, the other two applications for building on the green field/belt sites have been withdrawn. There is also a report with a confidential appendix which presumably outlines the legal advice which led to the applications being pulled.

None of this solves the finance issue!

 
 
Ball Sup (Phil)
(Login ball_sup)

Re: new stand

January 4 2017, 8:16 PM 

We (YCCC) have an existing debt we can't possibly pay back.
So, we (YCCC) are looking to borrow more money.
To build a stand that spectators of another team (ECB) will use.
And ...... for that reason, I'm out.

Phil
Twitter @ball_sup
Blog Address
http://www.ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: new stand

January 4 2017, 9:01 PM 

It's a shame but it's hard to disagree with Phil.

For Leeds Rugby the priority has to be the decaying South stand. Their side of the football stand is fully usable and provides more seats than the replacement would.

For YCCC they have to turn a pigs ear into a silk purse to either fool or satisfy the ECB that the stand is fit for purpose come the 2019 World Cup and then the next staging agreement. They were promised a grant of £4M by the council to make this happen.

There has to be something going on in the background for both clubs to stick with this joint application. Maybe some foreign owners are moving into Rugby league, or Mark Arthur's busking was more successful than we ever imagined.

Whatever it is we certainly don't need any more debt and if it does get built they need to ensure it pays its way and come up with innovative ways to use the facilities on non match days.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: new stand

January 5 2017, 9:58 AM 

Agree Phil. To much debt already that will never be paid off, to take on any more, to update a stand that will only be fully utilised for three matches a year maximum.

 
 
JollyD
(Login JollyD)

New stand

January 5 2017, 10:49 AM 

while fully appreciating the comments above, I think the following should be borne in mind.
Part of the cricket side of the stand has already been condemned as unfit for use. It is likely that the deterioration would continue until the stand has to be closed entirely. This would have an impact on both cricket and rugby. Headingley would lose international cricket after 2019 just when Yorkshire gained control of the lucrative income streams from sales of food and drink.
The rugby side of the stand, which is full on match days, would remain attached to an unsafe appendage. How long could that continue ? It is in the interests of both parties to try to secure funding for a full replacement, probably with naming rights as several other counties have done already. With sport all the year round at the stadium, Headingley is uniquely well-placed to attract a sponsor to benefit from regular TV coverage.
Finally, I note that the plans for the new stand include a first level 500 seat restaurant area overlooking both pitches. This facility would have the potential for 365 day use bringing in extra income.

 
 

Spire Tyke
(Login SpireTyke)

New Stand

January 5 2017, 12:15 PM 

Just imagine, 500 portions of fish and chips, mushy peas, bread and butter and scraps!

 
 
Papag
(Login Papag1)

Re: new stand

January 5 2017, 12:43 PM 

Well summed up Phil, debt will come back to bite many clubs 100% certain and not just ours its mad to just keep inflating it

 
 
ball_sup (Phil)
(Login ball_sup)

Re: new stand

January 6 2017, 11:31 AM 

Some of the posts have the feel of ..... Leeds Rugby & YCCC have no option but to build the stand.

In particular - a feel of - in order to get a 2019 World Cup match & to get Test matches.

Where's the end of the tunnel? Must we take out a new loan every four years in order to get the next shiny thing? Someone needs to say - stop the world, this business model is crazy, I'm getting off. I'm saying it.

But, go on, I'll bite.

If the ECB need a new stand at one end of Headingley.
So, they can play THEIR World Cup.
And THEIR Test Matches.
Then THEY should pay for it.

Call me Crazy.

Phil
twitter @ball_sup
Blog Address
http://www.ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: new stand

January 6 2017, 11:51 AM 

Surely the bottom line is that the stand needs to be knocked down sooner or later - whether or not it is replaced. It is clapped out and there are health and safety concerns. We can cordon it off for a while but sooner or later it will have to come down. The rugby side could do their own thing I suppose, and we could just have terraced seating on our side?

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Health & Safety

January 6 2017, 5:40 PM 

Does it all have to be knocked down! Is there a report somewhere that asserts the whole structure is dangerous! Or will be within the next 5 years or so.

Or does it suit the narrative to imply it is past saving and the only option is to shell out a fortune the club doesn't have, for a new stand that may be used for 5 or 6 days a year, if we are lucky enough to keep 6 days International cricket a year.

Concrete failure on the front of the top deck seems to be the immediate problem. Perhaps that level could be taken down, it doesn't seat very many people anyway.

If the club had loads of money of course we'd love to see a sparkling new stand, as long as it was used for other things throughout the year.

But we don't, and the plans should be shelved and the £4 million grant, if it's still available, should be used to get the best out of what we have. Making use of modern temporary seating and modular hospitality facilities for the very few days a year they are needed.

 
 
YorkTyke
(Login YorkTyke)

Re: New Stand

January 6 2017, 7:34 PM 

The ECB have told Yorkshire that they have to upgrade the stand otherwise future allocation of test matches at Headingley are in doubt. Without the revenue from international matches at Headingley Yorkshire's planned schedule to pay off the current debt goes down the pan :-http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/clear-risk-to-headlingley-stadium-s-future-as-international-sporting-venue-1-8319181

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: New Stand

January 6 2017, 8:16 PM 

It is in both the Cricket and Rugby clubs interest to lay it on with a trowel when appealing to the city councils civic pride with reference to the possible loss of International status for Leeds.

The ECB want to reduce test match grounds from 9 to 6, they have already canned Durham. Building a new stand, which might turn into a very expensive white elephant, still will not guarantee Test cricket after 2020.



 
 
Ball Sup (Phil)
(Login ball_sup)

Re: New Stand

January 6 2017, 8:35 PM 

Possible responses to the ECB threat to take International Cricket away from Headingley if the new stand isn't built include....

Go on then. It's one of your heartlands for players & fans. Kill it.

....you can have that one on me ....

The business model is crazy. Counties take on unserviceable debt. In the hope they'll be allowed to pay for an International match. Yes, really. Stop now. Moratorium. The intention was never to drive Counties to extinction via debt. It ain't working. Show some leadership. Stop. ..... etc.

Phil
Twitter @ball_sup
Blog Address
http://www.ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: Health &amp; Safety

January 7 2017, 10:02 AM 

The present stand is owned exclusively by the Rugby side. YCCC only have the use of the seating facing the cricket ground. The area owned by YCCC starts at the front of the stand (i.e. the remains of the old cycle track). Consequently, the landlord issues presented by the current stand are not faced by YCCC. The rugby club have their problems to solve in this matter. The question must be to what extent YCCC need to develop the area in front of the stand and the feasibility of doing so, if it is necessary, independently of the Rugby Club.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: New Stand

January 7 2017, 10:03 AM 

But we are different from Durham as we have a generous benefactor and guarantor to support our loans and he also happens to be in high places at the ECB so whilst he may have some heavy conflicts to manage I think if we cannot afford to pay our debts then the guarantor becomes liable. Well that's what Amigo loans tried to tell me last year, much to my surprise as I was not even aware I had agreed to act as a guarantor.....

 
 
Ball Sup (Phil)
(Login ball_sup)

Re: New Stand

January 8 2017, 8:41 AM 

There is a key fact I would like to alert WRF Contributors to.

Everyone you know today will one day die.

Sorry to break it to you. Including Graves. Maybe "The Trust" will afford us some protection. But, we have a mortal benefactor. Once the unseemly rush for his estate begins, a debt is a debt.

Phil
Twitter @ball_sup
Blog Address
http://www.ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: New Stand

January 8 2017, 9:26 AM 

The guarantor only relates to external loans as I recall. And I suspect that the trust was created in part to satisfy the banks that they could call on something else if Graves was no more. The debts we have directly with the trust are surely unaffected?



    
This message has been edited by Martinh00 on Jan 8, 2017 9:32 AM


 
 
 
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