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4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016 at 1:05 AM

WRF  (Premier Login AlexRoberts)
Owner

 
Dec 8-12, 2016 - 4th Test at Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai

India from: V Kohli*, R Ashwin, RA Jadeja, B Kumar, A Mishra, Mohammed Shami, KK Nair, MK Pandey, PA Patel†, CA Pujara, KL Rahul, I Sharma, M Vijay, J Yadav, UT Yadav

England Squad: AN Cook*, MM Ali, JM Anderson, JM Bairstow†, JT Ball, GS Ballance, GJ Batty, SCJ Broad, JC Buttler†, LA Dawson, BM Duckett, ST Finn, KK Jennings, AU Rashid, JE Root, BA Stokes, CR Woakes

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This message has been edited by AlexRoberts on Dec 8, 2016 12:34 AM


 
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Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 8:14 AM 

Pencil in Jennings at least. 50/50 for Broad doesn't sound too promising.


http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1071078.html

 
 
WR_Metcalfe
(Login WR_Metcalfe)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 9:34 AM 

KL Rahul is likely to come back in for KK Nair and open, with PA Patel moving down the order. Mohammed Shami is doubtful, with B Kumar the most likely replacement.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 2:09 PM 

Shami being out would be quite a big blow for India, I believe. One of the surprises has been that India's fast bowling has been faster - and often better in the conditions - than ours. B Kumar is one of several namesake medium-pace swinging trundlers; also well suited to Indian conditions, as you would expect, but the bad news for England might be that Shami's absence simply brought forward the introduction of the off-spinners.

How many left-handers in the England team this time? They could pick NINE from the players still out there! Cook, Jennings, Ali, Duckett, Ballance, Stokes, Ansari, Broad, Anderson.

The greatest number of possible right-handers is eight, I think: Root, Bairstow, Buttler, Dawson, Woakes, Ball, Finn, Batty.

Have I forgotten anyone? And I know Ansari is not going to play, but he is still out there, I believe.

Does this surfeit of left-handers stretch to other sports? I remember being told by a football coach that it was hard to find left-sided players, but that was years ago. There seem to be very few left-handed golfers at the top level, but what about tennis and boxing?

Does a leftie tennis player have an advantage? Southpaw boxers used to be seen as difficult opponents. The left-arm bowler in cricket has an advantage, so long as he remains relatively rare, but the leftie batsmen seem disadvantaged, in India anyway, because of the rough created by right-arm bowlers.

Why has this happened in cricket? Yorkshire fielded an all left-handed top 5 last season, and we were not alone in this disproportion. This is so far removed from the statistical norm as to raise questions. Sample size, I know, but it's quite a decent sample size.

I'm baffled, me!

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 2:48 PM 

I can't believe a man of your sagacity could ever be baffled. (A bit of Christmas spirit)

It has to be something to do with how they first pick up a bat surely. It's not as if many, or any for that matter, are actually left handed.

Maybe they learnt face to face with someone or watching on TV and they would be the mirror image to a right hander.

I've just experimented and it does feel strange but not impossible to hold a bat left handed, as long as nobody bowls at me that is.

 
 
Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 2:49 PM 

I don't know why there has been a change - I agree there has. But left handed batting is in a different category from tennis, as two hands are involved, and you can make a case that a 'left-hander' is using his right hand more than his left. I don't know that full left handed batters, bowlers, throwers, are more common than they used to be. Don Wilson did the lot left handed, as did Darren Lehmann (can't remember which arm Jake throws with), and outside our ranks there was a bloke called Sobers, I believe. Ryan is fully left-handed, but I think he's the only one of our current crop. My memory is Phil Jacques did the lot left-handed, who am I forgetting since him?

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
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Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 3:03 PM 

Mitchell Starc.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 3:17 PM 

Karl Carver bats and bowls left, as well as Ryan (but not as well, if you see what I mean!) and so too David Willey, but I think all the other current Yorkshire 1st XI left-handed batsmen throw/bowl with their right - Lyth, Lees, Ballance, Gale, Rhodes...

I thought the choice of being left handed, as a batsman, was no choice. It is to do with eye-dominance.

[To check which of your eyes is dominant, with BOTH eyes open, line up your finger with a vertical line, edge of door or whatever. It will appear a bit transparent, as your non-dominant eye sees past it, but when you close each eye in turn, it will remain lined up with your dominant eye, but appear to move sideways for the other one. If you close both eyes, you won't be able to see it at all.]

I was shown this by an archer, who was telling me how to hold a bow, and whether to draw the string with the right hand, or the left. The stance is similar to a batsman's. As a right-hander and right-eye dominant, I was instructed to hold the bow with my left, draw the string with my right, which hadn't been my initial thought.

 
 
Guest
(Login BCTyke)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 4:02 PM 

Thanks for that Dave - very interesting.

I am right handed, but find it ok to bat eother hand (equally badly!)

Just tried your test & yes, my right eye is dominant, even though it is much poorer vision

I think I was taught at school to bat RH, but am naturally LH bat.

How odd.

 
 
spanishnick
(Login Spanishnick)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 4:29 PM 

Im right handed. In the hot summer of 1976 I had to spend almost the entire season batting left handed. I had a broken right arm and the pot came upto my bicep in a sort of right angle. It was set perfect to play a backward or forward defensive shot but useless for trying to hit owt off the square. Don't think I scored anything other than singles for about 8 weeks. Funny though, these days on the beach I can still play left handed quite well but its not pretty to watch.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 5:02 PM 

Maybe the eye dominance changes when you reach a certain age. Perhaps Galey could try and change hands and make a playing comeback.

As Gary Ballance isn't likely to be doing any proper batting for a while maybe he should try it too!.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 7:26 PM 

Nice analysis Dave but you omit Rashid I think.

It's interesting that I often think of Yorkshire having a plethora of left handlers with Lyth, Lees, Gale, Ballance, Siddy, Willey, Lehmann, Head yet in the current squad half of the test right handed batters are Root Bairstow Rashid with Plunkett in the odi reckoning.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 7:39 PM 

How amazing that of all the players in India I should forget our Rash!

 
 
Tom
(Login whiterosetom)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 7 2016, 8:37 PM 

I read somewhere that one reason lefties are more prolific in sports could be that right handers are more common. At amatuer level atleast, there will be more right handed bowlers and batsmen and so they become more predictable to play against and thus left handers find it easier to excel. By professional level in most sports there is roughly an even split compared to the general population where right handedness is obviously correct. I mean, more prevalent.

Take the above with a pinch of salt. I may have read it in a respectable scientific paper, on the other hand I may have read it in heat magazine. I can't recall.

 
 
WS55
(Login WibseySimon55)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 8 2016, 12:28 AM 

I think it is probably to do with how the different sides of the brain process information from the nerves and senses.

High skills in hand-eye coordination probably go with a dominant right (or left, I can never remember) hemisphere, and this creates a disproportionate number of highly-skilled left handed players.

 
 

WRF
(Premier Login AlexRoberts)
Owner

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 8 2016, 12:35 AM 

India from: V Kohli*, R Ashwin, RA Jadeja, B Kumar, A Mishra, Mohammed Shami, KK Nair, MK Pandey, PA Patel†, CA Pujara, KL Rahul, I Sharma, M Vijay, J Yadav, UT Yadav

England Squad: AN Cook*, MM Ali, JM Anderson, JM Bairstow†, JT Ball, GS Ballance, GJ Batty, SCJ Broad, JC Buttler†, LA Dawson, BM Duckett, ST Finn, KK Jennings, AU Rashid, JE Root, BA Stokes, CR Woakes

 
 
Leg Glance
(Login legglance)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 8 2016, 5:41 AM 

Jennings gets 50 on debut after being dropped on 0.Has looked solid with a couple of decent drives.

A surfeit of openers? If he and Hameed worked out how about Cook,Hameed, Jennings, Root as the top 4?

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 8 2016, 8:30 AM 

Reverse sweep to bring up his century. Well he's had a bit of luck but sounds pretty solid since then. Good start but still waiting for England to stuff it up.

 
 
Old Feller
(Login Old_Feller2)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 8 2016, 9:00 AM 

Well done Jennings, maybe now the selectors will believe in form shown in the first division.
I still wonder how Leach would have fared.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 4th Test | India vs England at Mumbai (Match thread)

December 8 2016, 10:25 AM 

Starting to look like a pitch where you would like to have 3 spinners in your team. Oops.

 
 
 
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