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Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: none english players

January 5 2017, 8:00 PM 

Signing Keaton Jennings would be hugely beneficial and i don't see much difference in him and a Kolpak.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: none english players

January 5 2017, 8:24 PM 

The days of season long overseas professionals have long gone, so I wouldn't mind so much if Yorkshire were able to pick up a very high quality Kolpak to provide us with the sort of season stability that Lehmann gave us (or even Rudolph). What I don't like is an average (but proven) Kolpak displacing an up and coming player.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 12:07 AM 

Couple of shrewd pick ups from Hants in fairness. Might even keep them up..

 
 
Lewis
(Login Lewis_116)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 7:41 AM 

in fairness to Hants they have developed two English players in recent seasons and also have some good young players in and around the youth set up such as Alsop and Crane.

I personally think one Kolpak feels OK. Two just seems a bit unfair and unbalanced.

That said if they now sign an overseas player as well 3 of their 11 would be overseas players.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 7:54 AM 

The complaint about Kolpaks was that they were a cheaper alternative than developing your own players. There is no disputing the excellence of the likes of Hall and Rudolph and Henderson, nor of the two Hampshire have just acquired, in addition to Ervine, McLaren and Berg already there. Not sure if McLaren is their registered overseas man, but I think they had Fidel/Tino in that position?

Hampshire have produced almost no England players in my lifetime, and absolutely not a single outstanding one. Of all 18 Counties, I think they're alone in this respect.

The comparison with Keaton Jennings does not bear examination. Durham invested in him, as a teenager, as we did in Ballance. He was years away from being a 1st XI County player when he first turned out for them, and now he is scoring runs for England. Secondly, his mother is not only English, but from County Durham.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 8:08 AM 

"That said if they now sign an overseas player as well 3 of their 11 would be overseas players."

They have already signed an overseas..........George Bailey.

Oh plus they ALREADY have Fidel Edwards and Sean Ervine playing as Kolpaks.

That's 5 non English qualified players!

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 9:13 AM 

Counties such as Hampshire, Glamorgan and Leicestershire seem to have trouble growing their own players and have historically needed to top up with solid county pro's.

Instead of taking cast-offs from the bigger counties the state of South African cricket and the economy means that some world class players are available, relatively cheaply, and available for the full season.

Once a team looks that way and has a link formed with coaches, or former players acting as agents it must be difficult to say no.

The ECB needs to revisit the money held back for fielding Kolpaks and consider increasing it.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 9:32 AM 

"world class players are available, relatively cheaply"

I'd suggest that at £500k over 3 years Abbott is far from cheap.

 
 
Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 9:52 AM 

Keaton has a father who is a passionate South African and won 14 caps.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 10:06 AM 

Indeed, Jacobus, and if he had stayed in S Africa another couple of years and completed his cricket education there, he would have been in the same category as all those Kolpaks, or as KP. But he didn't. He developed into the player he is now by turning out for Durham 2s, by playing - and failing! - for the first team, until he finally made his breakthrough.

The point I am making is that he didn't turn up in England as the finished article, unlike Kevin Pietersen, or Jacques Rudolph, to give but two examples. English County Cricket was Jennings' finishing school.

 
 
Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 10:49 AM 

Chris Jordan was born in Barbados and the reason he was educated in Dulwich was for the money he could potentially earn playing county cricket and then for England. I don't identify with any of this and when the ECB continue to meddle with the county structure they end up pushing people away from supporting England.

 
 
ball_sup (Phil)
(Login ball_sup)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 11:23 AM 

I'm going to paraphrase. But, there are two ways foreign international players can get a County Contract.

1. Via the Work Permit route. The ECB allow each County one player for the Champo. That player must be an established Test Player, fulfilling specified criteria essentially based on playing a lot of recent international games.

2. Via the Kolpak route. The player must have played in some international games. But, not a lot & not recent. And must have quit international cricket.

That's the law/regulations. But, people do see the Kolpak route as a loophole.

But, YCCC have recently been exploiting another loophole - the English Passport. Neither Jake Lehmann nor Handscomb would qualify for a Work Permit under 1. And, they're not renouncing The Baggy Green. Although not qualified to play for England, they hold English Passports.

Again, nothing wrong with that - it's the law/regulations.

I've always felt that overseas, quality, international players enrich the County game. And, (despite supporting a predominantly Yorkie born/nurtured only policy) I'm very comfortable that YCCC have had Overseas Gunslingers. However.....

I didn't like the Lehmann thing - an overseas, non capped, yet to make his way player keeping a YCCC nurtured player out of the team. Me no likee. At least Handscomb has played Test Cricket. Not enough to get him a work permit under normal circumstances. His flag of convenience passport has done that.

Phil
twitter @ball_sup
Blog Address
http://www.ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk


 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 11:40 AM 

The passport/visa issue as I understand it is purely about immigration rules. I used to work at the university, and whilst it was straightforward to employ EU or UK citizens to academic positions, it was much more difficult to employ "third country" people as they are known. Here, the question is about whether by employing that person we were displacing someone of UK or EU nationality. So the question is really about the uniqueness of expertise - is the Mathematics Professor from the US providing skills that are not available closer to home?

I guess the same test is applied here - the fact that a player has played (substantial) international cricket is in effect evidence that they are not displacing anyone else with equivalent skill levels. If you have an English passport, no justification on skill level is required. However, isn't this just an administrative issue? It may be true that Hansdcome and Lehmann might not be appointable given their lack of international experience, but as a club we are recruiting them in the hope that they are on the cusp of breaking through. We are not appointing people who we expect to be average county pros. On that basis I think it is perfectly legitimate.

 
 
Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 11:41 AM 

Lehmann didn't keep any homegrown players out of the team as Leaning wasn't doing his job well enough.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 11:44 AM 

"But, YCCC have recently been exploiting another loophole - the English Passport"

An English passport is hardly a loophole!

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 12:59 PM 

I didn't know there was an English passport. Where can you get one?

Jack Leaning will score loadsa runs in 2017, but only if he plays.

 
 
Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 2:50 PM 

I'd prefer Handscomb to keep wicket and bat 5, so if Leaning or Ballance can cope with being at number 3 then that would help Fisher get into the side which would be a long term benefit. If Jennings is signed you could still play Leaning at 6 which would help in home conditions.

Lyth
Lees
Jennings
Ballance (c)
Handscomb (wk)
Leaning
Bresnan
Rashid
Patterson
Brooks
Sidebottom






 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 4:05 PM 

Jennings has a new contract at Durham and is now in the England team. Forget about signing him.


 
 
Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 4:27 PM 

That news came out in August before all the mess happened, he'll still be available when England play one day cricket and there is no guarantee he'll be good enough to play Test cricket for a sustained period of time.


 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: none english players

January 6 2017, 4:30 PM 

You've left Hodd out, Jacobus.

 
 
 
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