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Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 14 2017, 11:43 AM 

It is not really a matter of captaincy experience, though that can help, but rather an issue of the ability to think tactically in the context and under the pressure of a game.

Some very good captains had little experience of captaincy before assuming the role at international level. The most obvious example would be Ray Illingworth, who during his years before going to Leicestershire had precious little captaincy experience with Yorkshire, but was widely regarded as being one of the most astute tactical thinkers in the game. Shortly after he had joined Leicestershire (as their captain), the then England captain (Colin Cowdrey) sustained an injury and Illingworth (perhaps as a spot-gap), as opposed to the massively experienced Close, was called upon.

The rest, as they say, is history.

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 14 2017, 1:10 PM 

There was no chance of Close. They'd only just sacked him.

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 14 2017, 2:43 PM 

"There was no chance of Close. They'd only just sacked him."

Precisely. Cowdrey was very much the establishment choice and the feeling at the time was that Illingworth's appointment was of a purely caretaking nature. He would make way for Cowdrey as soon as the "great man" was fit again.

Cowdrey, of course, was another highly experienced county captain, a former amateur and a public school and university product.

Illingworth had come up through the professional ranks and was certainly no establishment figure.

I quote:

"But it was only by a succession of improbable chances that he (Illingworth) became England's captain. May and Dexter had to leave the game early. Smith and Cowdrey, though neither could be called a failure, had to be judged not quite up to the job. Close had to have a spectacular and unnecessary row with the Edgbaston crowd, and with the London authorities. Then Cowdrey, restored to office, and seeming set for the job for several years, had to injure himself. Even then, Illingworth would hardly have been considered for the captaincy had he not had a disagreement with Yorkshire, when Close was still in command there, which led to his joining Leicestershire and captaining them...(perhaps, Brian Sellers, after all, did Illingworth the turn of his life); and even then, though this can hardly be called luck, Illingworth had to show not only shrewness in captaincy, which few doubted he possessed, but talent as a player which he had not consistently demonstrated at Test level, before. There were those who thought, in 1969, that Pocock, of Surrey, was as good an off-spinner, and with more before him. One of the reasons it is difficult to have a regular bowler as captain, is that it seals off a place, unless the attack is unbalanced.

.....Illingworth's response to this problem was to score a great many runs, in the middle of the order, often when the side was in trouble.....As a captain, he was inclined not to bowl himself enough, but with his skill in other departments, this hardly mattered (except no doubt to poor Pocock) and he was always worth his place in the side....."

Gibson, Alan "The Cricket Captains of England" (Cassel Ltd 1979), p.211-12.




    
This message has been edited by BrickyardBoy on Feb 14, 2017 2:44 PM


 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 14 2017, 3:46 PM 

He was also lucky that the vacancy cropped up when he was in the side, which had been an off and on business. In this sense he also benefited from the accident which happened to Fred Titmus in the West Indies the previous winter, thus removing the regular first choice off-spinner.

Once he had his feet under the table though, Raymond was in a different league to Cowdrey or Dexter.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 15 2017, 2:29 PM 

Joe Root's first press conference as England captain today at Headingley.......what a disgrace!

Strauss (who doesn't even want him as captain, as we all know) and the ECB have obviously thought he isn't worthy of holding his first press conference at the Home of Cricket, Lords, as he isn't from the South.

A bad start for the captain with his employers already undermining him!!

 
 
Baildonian
(Login Baildonian)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 15 2017, 4:22 PM 

We can't have it all ways! We complain long and hard that the ECB is London-centric but when they let the new England captain speak for the first time at his 'home' ground we still aren't happy. Personally I think it is a good endorsement for Headingley that it has been used for this occasion. Also wasn't there some suggestion that it meant Joe wouldn't have to be away from his new family for too long?

 
 
CaravanShaker
(Login CaravanShaker)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 15 2017, 4:27 PM 

I suspect EYT was not being entirely un-ironic.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 15 2017, 5:23 PM 

EYT was being humorous and taking the mickey out of some other postings, and I personally found it quite amusing. Not serious at all.
After all EYT would NEVER EVER criticise the ECB, as his previous postings constantly show.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 15 2017, 5:29 PM 

Root was interviewed on Sky with the old stand in the back ground with no signs of demolition, but a new blue sightscreen has been put up, above the existing white bits, immediately behind the bowlers arm, completely obstructing any view. Looks like no-one will be having the best view in the ground next season.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 15 2017, 5:43 PM 

Thanks for explaining the irony.

Thought he'd just flip flopped his position again!

 
 
Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 15 2017, 5:43 PM 

If they'd started demolishing it, are you sure you'd be able to tell?

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 16 2017, 12:06 PM 

Demolitions cost a fortune. They wont touch it unless and until the funding for its replacement is secured (or if things are literally hanging off it)

 
 
Tom
(Login whiterosetom)

Re: Congratulations (and good luck)

February 16 2017, 1:40 PM 

Maybe they were hanging on for them strong winds we were forecast, that would be a much cheaper method.

Is there a chance of Yorkshire Carnegie clashing with any matches next season? If memory serves correctly I think it was the one day cup semi final that clashed with the Rugby last season. (My abiding memory was of an elderly drunk Gloucestershire fellow wondering where he'd gone wrong when he rounded the corner and instead of seeing the cricket pitch opening up in front of him, saw a rugby match kicking off instead.)

It would be slightly surreal with no stand separating the matches.

 
 
 
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