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Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Bayliss

December 15 2016, 9:59 AM 

Thirdumpire, if you want players selected based on Div 1 form. Why should Jake Ball who took 49 wickets at 23 in only 11 Championship matches, be nowhere near India at the moment?

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Bayliss

December 15 2016, 11:03 AM 

Did you watch the last test? Nothing against him in England but in India he is excess baggage with Finn or was til Sanderson's body soreness

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Bayliss

December 15 2016, 11:16 AM 

Erm you're wanting players selected based on their Championship performances. They select someone who excelled at that level. He then has a poor Test. So it was a bad selection?

Shocking aftertiming.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Bayliss

December 15 2016, 11:40 AM 

Agree with Dwight here!

How can you pick Roland Jones (54 wickets @ 28 with SR of 53.5) over Ball (49 wickets @ 23 SR of 42) based on county form alone?

I don't think Ball could be accused of doing too much wrong in the 18 overs he's bowled in India and earlier in the tour, he was excellent against Bangladesh in the ODI's.


    
This message has been edited by EastYorkshireTyke on Dec 15, 2016 11:49 AM


 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Bayliss

December 15 2016, 11:51 AM 

As long as the management TEAM has all bases covered, that should be okay. Bayliss has no knowledge of English cricket, but Farbrace does.

I think the weakest link in the chain is James Whitaker, who watches even more county cricket than I do - and almost as much of Yorkshire! I hesitate to rubbish anyone who has played the game at that level, but I really do question Whitaker's judgement of players.

I cannot get my head round the selection of Hales for Test cricket. Vince I had seen little of, Ansari and Duckett hardly at all. We were all familiar with Ballance's struggles, and with Rashid's weaknesses as well as his strengths, but the batting and the spin bowling were both poorly selected before the tour even started, and many of us said so at the time.

The selectors' successes - Hameed and Jennings - were accidents rather than planned. However, we returned from South Africa with questions over 3 of the top 6 batsmen, and these seem to have been all resolved, assuming Bairstow bats in his county position of 5. His keeping has improved, too, though Jimmy Binks he never will be.

Mark Butcher has called for Jonny to play as a batsman at 5 and Buttler to keep wicket at 7. "Do it now, you know that's how it's going to be." But, if Jonny is a better keeper than Jos, why not have them in the side, as they are? Buttler now needs to play some County Championship cricket instead of swanning off to the IPL, or they should forget him as a Test contender.

For this summer, I would be inclined to play all three openers, Bell at 5, Jonny B at 7. Then there's Ali at 8, or a real spinner lower down, with a strong hand of seamers. We will win in England, and we've a good chance in Australia, where Rashid comes in to the reckoning again - perhaps.

There is also a whole bunch of players just finished on the Lions tour, who have a strong case to make. Young batsmen, two wicket-keepers, two spinners and a whole pile of seam bowlers. I note Tom Helm is being 'fast-tracked'. I think he made his FC debut at Headingley two seasons ago, and impressed then. There's also the Currans. Loads of good cricketers everywhere. The Counties ARE doing their job.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Bayliss

December 15 2016, 11:53 AM 

This all boils down to how much statistics alone should guide selection and where identifying players who can succeed at international level becomes a crucial skill.

In general, sheer weight of runs and wickets are a good guide. There are far more players who have succeeded at Test level on the back of excellent county statistics than those who haven't. Everyone cites Vaughan and Trescothick, but there are ten times as many players who were able to translate a prolific county career into a good Test one.

 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: Bayliss

December 15 2016, 12:04 PM 

As 3U said (& I've said before) it took about 1 over of watching Ballance in the run chase against Middlexsex to see that Gary was completely out of form yet England picked him for the winter. When the team needed another spiiner the last player you'd expect was Dawson. As a result England went into the last test with Moen & Rashid as the spin option. Both ended up bowling far more than they should have. Those two errors alone show that Boycott isn't wrong to cricitise the England management

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Bayliss

December 15 2016, 12:37 PM 

I came to the same conclusion at the Middx game as well, although watching Willey trying to work the ball around was if anything even more painful!

Gary of course is an interesting example. He was picked as someone who was a prolific run scorer. He has arguably been stuck with because of his perceived "class" when he has been out of form or when he has appeared to be coming into form. He has also been messed about with in a way that other players haven't (Bell pretty much refused to move up the order for a lot of his career) again presumably because they thought he was mentally strong enough to withstand it. They clearly made the wrong call. If only they had asked for our advice!

Dawson is even more baffling. He is at best an average spinning all-rounder a bit like Yardy or Snape. A good enough county pro, maybe quite useful as an ODI player but nowhere near test class. His stats are decidedly average, there is nothing that I can see that he is a talented under-achiever, so you are left with the "mental toughness" argument. All well and good but if the potential is not there in the first place then why are we going there!

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Bayliss

December 15 2016, 10:24 PM 

As well as mental toughness top class players need the ability to overcome any weaknesses which will inevitably be highlighted due to television coverage and endless analysis when they reach Test level.

Jonny Bairstow was found wanting against short pitched bowling early on but managed to overcome this particular weakness.

Joe Root has had several minor technical issues which he has managed to find the answers to.

On the other hand Gary Ballance was found out against leg side deliveries, which he just couldn't, and still can't seem to stop himself guiding into the hands of leg slip.

Adam Lyth similarly just can't keep his hands in his pockets when faced with an away swinging new ball early in his innings.

It's an over simplification of course but if your trying very hard not to do something you can end up doing it anyway, or finding another daft way to get out because your mind isn't clear.

 
 
 
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