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5th Test | India v England at Chennai (Match Thread)

December 16 2016 at 4:34 AM

WRF  (Premier Login AlexRoberts)
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5th Test: India v England at Chennai, Dec 16-20, 2016

ENGLAND: AN Cook, KK Jennings, JE Root, MM Ali, JM Bairstow†, BA Stokes, JC Buttler, LA Dawson, AU Rashid, SCJ Broad, JT Ball
INDIA: M Vijay, KL Rahul, CA Pujara, V Kohli*, KK Nair, PA Patel†, R Ashwin, RA Jadeja, A Mishra, I Sharma, UT Yadav

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Old Feller
(Login Old_Feller2)

Re: 5th Test | India v England at Chennai (Match Thread)

December 16 2016, 8:28 AM 

Dawson gains a totally unmerited IMV first test cap.
I hope I'm proved wrong but has any spinner ever been less deserving of an England cap?
Yet again Cook fails & Root falls in the 80s.
That currently is the difference between him & Kohli.
Kohli goes on to make a ton whereas Joe doesn't.
Was it another dodgy DRS decision?
What about benefit of the doubt to the batsman?
If you tot up the DRS decisions in this series I wonder which side has benefited the most?
It would be ironic if it's India after their long term refusal to allow it to be used.

 
 
Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: 5th Test | India v England at Chennai (Match Thread)

December 16 2016, 10:52 AM 

Joe has to deal with a higher quality of bowling than Kohli.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: 5th Test | India v England at Chennai (Match Thread)

December 16 2016, 11:45 AM 

Don't think it's the quality of bowling or his ability that's the issue. His conversion rate is well below what it should be for someone so good.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: 5th Test | India v England at Chennai (Match Thread)

December 16 2016, 11:56 AM 

To be honest the difference between 88 and 100 is neither here or there. Sometimes think a better stat would be to look at conversions to 150. They tend to be match defining.

Hard to say what Root should have done differently today. Was a fair shot. He just failed to connect properly

 
 
Roundhegian
(Login Roundhegian)

Re: 5th Test | India v England at Chennai (Match Thread)

December 16 2016, 12:29 PM 

"Ability" includes the ability to avoid the losses of concentration that lead to dismissal by an unforced error.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 5th Test | India v England at Chennai (Match Thread)

December 16 2016, 12:51 PM 

No, but the difference between 88 and 180 is the difference between 400 and 600 and severely reduces the chances of winning.

I've heard Graeme Swann say in the past the Root isn't the fittest in the England squad but he gets away with this due to his natural ability. Although he certainly doesn't look over weight maybe he could sharpen his fitness up. This would certainly help his concentration.

 
 
Guest
(Login Jacobus24)

Re: 5th Test | India v England at Chennai (Match Thread)

December 16 2016, 1:37 PM 

The marked difference between Kohli and Root in this series i would say is that India have had the ability to maintain pressure, whereas England haven't displayed this often enough. Root has had to work harder for his runs and India have to be given credit for this.

 
 
JollyD
(Login JollyD)

5th test India vs England at Chenai (match thread)

December 16 2016, 2:30 PM 

Joe Root is the best batsman produced by Yorkshire for a long number of years. Yet we have a raft of posters on this forum queuing up to criticize him for scoring only 88 !
Like all players he will occasionally suffer a lapse of concentration which may result in his dismissal. It is hardly a treasonable offence. To suggest he lacks fitness does not accord with the number of sharp singles he takes. Someone quotes the opinion of Graeme Swann. Could we be reminded how many centuries he scored for England ?
The heat and humidity are intense and I doubt whether any of us has the least idea how difficult it is to bat for a long period in such conditions.
Judging by the Indians' celebrations, his is still the most prized wicket.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 5th test India vs England at Chenai (match thread)

December 16 2016, 2:38 PM 

Well, that's that then JollyD we should ignore the opinions of those who've played with him and have inside knowledge of the England dressing room just because they haven't scored a century for England. Although to be honest, am not sure what relevance that has, maybe you could enlighten us?

You, yourself, highlight the fact that the conditions in India can be difficult and that Joe Root suffers lapses in concentration. Maybe fitness is a reason for it? But no, just because you don't like someone's opinion it should be ignored.

 
 
PaulYorks
(Login paulyorks)

Re: 5th test India vs England at Chenai (match thread)

December 16 2016, 3:00 PM 

Bizarre to accuse Joe Root of all people of a lack of application. This is a man who has shown a well-documented and obsessive determination to improve from an early age. He's one of the few players to play all three formats, and is top of the England batting and bowling averages for this series, and our leading run-scorer. I would be surprised if he neglected his physical fitness if it were such an obvious 'quick win', given everything else we know about his character and accomplishments.

Graeme Swann retired exactly 1 year after Joe made his test debut, so I think there's a limit to the 'inside knowledge' he can boast in this instance.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 5th test India vs England at Chenai (match thread)

December 16 2016, 3:32 PM 

Root has scored half tons in 11 games in a row v India. We seem to be nit picking at his faults and weaknesses which clouds over the real reasons why the team has struggled. Trust me, it's nowt to do with Root not converting 50 into 100 but more to do with some others in the team not performing. You would never know if they were unfit as they are not in long enough for anyone to find out.

The problem isn't Root not converting his scores. It's the fact the bowlers and catchers have allowed Kohli to do so. If you let a team get 600 you are never going to win. And in this series I suspect Joe has been unlucky with some drs dismissals

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 5th test India vs England at Chenai (match thread)

December 16 2016, 4:16 PM 

4 modern day players widely regarded and talked about in the same bracket are Kohli, Root, Smith and Williamson.

their 100/50 conversion rates:

VK 15/14
JR 11/26
SS 16/18
KW 14/24

People might call it nit picking and you know what, Joe Root will be the one above all others who wants to change this but those statistics can't be ignored.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 5th test India vs England at Chenai (match thread)

December 16 2016, 5:41 PM 

Why not show us the same stats for the others in the England top order although in some cases getting to 50 alone might be the problem!

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Lies, damn lies & statistics.

December 16 2016, 5:53 PM 

That certainly is one way of looking at it to advance your theory, but what about those 26 fifties! Surely those first 50 runs are just as valuable as the 2nd 50.

You could say for instance:

Innings 50's Percentage of innings scoring 50 or more
VK 89 14 15%
JR 96 26 27%
SS 87 18 20%
KW 103 24 23%

Probably best to stick to the offical averages.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Lies, damn lies & statistics.

December 16 2016, 6:21 PM 

So if you're better than your teammate's theres no need to look at ways of improving your game?


 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Lies, damn lies & statistics.

December 16 2016, 6:39 PM 

That certainly seems to be the argument some are making here Dwight.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Lies, damn lies & statistics.

December 16 2016, 7:14 PM 

Some are just pretty sure that Joe Root is doing the best he can with the skill he possesses and feel he should be supported.

He wants to bat positively and move the game on which sometimes gets him out before reaching the personal milestone of a century. Pretty sure he doesn't do it on purpose.

Some, and if the cap fits you can wear it, just want an arguement!

Perhaps we should bring Trott back at number 3 to provide the conversion rate you seek.

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Lies, damn lies & statistics.

December 16 2016, 7:18 PM 

I don't have much doubt which side of this debate Joe himself would be on. Of course it's a flaw at the moment, a minor flaw in a great player, but a flaw nevertheless.

 
 
CB
(Login BoomerC)

Re: Lies, damn lies &amp; statistics.

December 16 2016, 7:56 PM 

Whatever the stats, Joe Root is a mighty prodigious talent and though still a youngster by comparison to many of his peers, he's a work in progress at this level who will get even better with time and match experience!

Awesome cricketer, Yorkshire & England be proud!


    
This message has been edited by BoomerC on Dec 17, 2016 10:20 AM


 
 
 
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