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Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 11:30 AM 

I'm sure you're right, there's a new audience out there. However t20 has already tapped into that potential, and I suspect many will just transfer from those games to the new competition, and the figures for BOTH competitions, compared with present t20, will show the real progress.

I chatted to one of the 'new' spectators in a pub in Leeds last year. Someone I knew, who asked where I'd been that day, and tried to come to terms with the idea of anyone watching four days cricket on the trot. Oh yes, she'd been to Headingley, her office went for an after-work trip to a t20. 'It was nice. We didn't watch the game though.' That sort of support is a pretty fragile basis for the game's future.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 12:08 PM 

Also ---- 3 groups of 6 from 2020 for the county based T20 comp, so less matches, less "bums on seats" and less income from that comp.

The combined figure from both comps could be more or less the same, especially if as Idleman says, punters switch to the new comp, as there are 2 less matches at Headingley in one T20 comp, and 4 more matches in the other franchised T20 comp (if we get a franchise - which is not guaranteed).


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Mar 20, 2017 12:11 PM


 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 12:19 PM 

James - what makes you think ANYONE (who doesn't currently watch cricket in one form or another) will turn up to watch a City franchise? It is not the English way. Both rugby codes went to the brink of franchises, both pulled back from that brink and kept the traditional clubs. In England. The Welsh franchises are not loved.

Yes, it may work. There's only one way to find out. But if it doesn't work, the damage will be serious. We, as cricket fans, are inured to turning up and watching groundstaff pull covers on and off all day. How many wet and cold nights will the 'new' supporters bear before deciding something else is more fun?

 
 
Steve C
(Login stevecowton)
Assistant Moderator

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 12:43 PM 

i think it will depend entirely on who the new Franchises can recruit..
If they can get Dhoni, Afridi, KP and Chris Gayle et al then i DO think people will turn up....

Its not just new cricket fans - it's existing cricket fans that have no interest in Yorkshire i'm afraid.
At the moment the domestic game is sleep walking into extinction - artificially buoyed up by Indian TV rights.
I'm afraid that doing nothing is not an option.

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 12:44 PM 

Having had a little more time to reflect upon what was said at the AGM about the nature of the proposed new 8 team T20 competition, I have begun to realise the significance of the potential media contract.

The key issue, it seems to me, is that it is the terrestrial (free-to-view) providers who are being courted and who are showing such interest.

That would suggest that there would be several benefits to cricket as a whole, which I do not think have yet been brought into sharp focus.

Firstly, the new audience would be able to see the games at no cost beyond that of their television licence fee.

Secondly, cricket, albeit in a bowdlerised format, would be back in the public domain and seen more widely and be more accessible to those who do not want (or cannot afford) to pay for their televised sport.

Thirdly, it would have the impact of advertising cricket to an audience which is currently deprived of any contact with the game beyond listening to it on the radio. In terms of attracting the next generation this must be a positive good.

Fourthly, as the new tournament is limited to a closely defined period of time, far from transferring allegiance from the established T20 competition to the new competition, it may have the capacity to attract new followers to come along to CC, 50-over and conventional T20 fixtures, at other times (outside the 8 Team Competition Fixture Period).

All in all, it seems to me that it has the potential to put cricket back in the public eye, in much the same way as it was back in the 1970's when the 45, 50 and 60 over competitions, though often televised, attracted enormous crowds to one-day games between the counties.

As I said in my first posting, so much will depend upon the details of the final package, but at present I see more positives than negatives from what is being proposed. It seems to me that the ECB, together with the Chairmen and Chief Executives of the Counties have been involved in some pretty sophisticated thinking in developing this model to this point.

Qualified support and critical assessment is what the administrators need. If cricket-lovers have questions or concerns, it seems to me, that they can best engage in the development by addressing them to the chairmen and chief executives of their county club, who, I suspect, would welcome all such contributions provided that they are addressed in a courteous and not antagonistic manner.

E-mailing and texting makes this sort of communication easier and I find that the direct approach is generally well received.


    
This message has been edited by BrickyardBoy on Mar 20, 2017 1:20 PM


 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 1:20 PM 

As reported, Mr. Denison has expressed support for the ECB position largely because of the need to find a new audience for cricket.

Fine.

I hope as many people as possible will come to experience the passion we all feel for cricket.
It seems a little unusual, however, to look to grow the game by reducing the number of County Championship fixtures, devaluing the 50 over competition and marginalising the existing, successful, 20 over competition.

I understand why Yorkshire must echo the orthodoxies of the ECB but I sincerely hope that enough County Clubs, free of our obligations to the ECB Chairman, might dare to question the prevailing view and by so doing help to maintain a County structure, which has been the bedrock of our continuously evolving game for 140 years.

If the new 20/20 competition fails, then English cricket will struggle to recover; if it succeeds, then the County structure will be destroyed. How long this might take is arguable. My hope would be that I wouldn't be around to witness it, but I suspect five years would be sufficient.


 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 4:57 PM 

From this mornings YP

“........It would be like hosting four additional one-day internationals a year, and although there wouldn’t be a Yorkshire team as such, it would be a team run out of Headingley......"

So we DO lose our identity, despite several previous utterances by the Chairman & the Board that they would only support the new competition if we did retain our identity.

So we spend 16.5m to enable us to host non Yorkshire matches on our ground!!!

 
 
James
(Login ElTwis)

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 5:22 PM 

We build the stand to ensure the non yorkshire franchise and the international matches contribute to yorkshire finances. To me the franchise team is no different to allowing a concert to take place at headingley except with the added benefit of acting as a gateway into cricket for non cricket fans

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 6:46 PM 

James

I agree.

The bottom line is that a new income stream has to be secured. Without income sufficient to cover costs the whole of professional cricket collapses.

As I see it the income from this competition will allow YCCC together with all 17 other first class counties to continue to play Championship, 50-over and T20 cricket, without any loss of identity whatsoever, should they wish to do so, for five years of the contract with the successful bidder, in the first instance. That someone else with a different identity wants to pay YCCC in return for the use of its facilities is wonderful news. It creates another income stream. The more the merrier!

There are many questions yet to be answered regarding the proposed 8 team T20 competition, but if it comes off, then it will produce funding to carry the thing forward for at least five years.

I am not aware that any other source of finance has so far been identified. Any suggestions?

Similarly, without International Cricket, YCCC cannot meet its current financial obligations. Bluntly, it will "go bust".

With the new stand, it will secure the continuation of International Cricket and, given its catchment area it will be in a strong position to act as a venue base for one of the new T20 teams, thereby generating further income.

To play an active part in the transforming cricket economy, Headingley, as the infrastructural asset, has to be "tooled-up" to do the job. It has this in common with any business which does not want to cease trading.

"Tooling-up", always requires investment, and this usually means going to the suppliers of money in order to borrow. There is nothing unusual or irresponsible about this; it is, put simply, economic activity.

Perhaps, it all seems to be never-ending; that no sooner have we met one set of criteria, we find that further investment is required to meet still further new demands, but that is, again, in the nature of development.

Of course, it has been all the more difficult for YCCC, because after more than 100 years of trading, the Club owned nothing. This was a very sad indictment of how the Club, the most successful on-field Club in the history of the game, had been mismanaged for so long. We decided, then, that we would borrow to invest in order to survive. It would seem logical to me, to continue along that road for so long as it is possible.

Make no mistake, the alternative is to "shut up shop". Is that really what we want to do?



 
 
Pyrahtechnics
(Login Pyrahtechnics)

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 7:14 PM 

“........It would be like hosting four additional one-day internationals a year, and although there wouldn’t be a Yorkshire team as such, it would be a team run out of Headingley......"

So we DO lose our identity, despite several previous utterances by the Chairman & the Board that they would only support the new competition if we did retain our identity.

So we spend 16.5m to enable us to host non Yorkshire matches on our ground!!!

The above quote is open to interpretation. I highly doubt it would cost £40-£60 to watch an enhanced T20 competition (outside of London certainly), to me using ODIs as a comparison is a way to get supporters on side.

If the powers that be have done their homework, they would know that the Leeds based Netball and Rugby Union sides rebranded themselves as Yorkshire Jets and Carnegie respectively. Yorkshire is a far known brand than L**ds and if the ECB want commercial success, then a Headingley based T20 side will be known as Yorkshire.


 
 
James
(Login ElTwis)

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 9:13 PM 

It won't be yorkshire as it's a separate entity and will in all likelihood represent Durham too. For similar reasons it won't be Leeds. There might be value in being the Headingley...Redsox or something equally ridiculous. That or something non geographic which would be an alien concept to us but something that wouldn't then be off putting to anyone wherever they are

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: A very informative AGM

March 20 2017, 9:41 PM 

I haven't the energy levels and don't want to run the risk of RSI if I start to enter this debate but suffice to say, if the game moves on then we have to be part of it and we are in a better position owning our own ground with debt as opposed to Mr Caddick owning it and having no desire to develop a ground for a game he has little interest in.

Ultimately, we are playing catch up after decades of under investment and we are lucky to have a generous backer for our debts as long as we don't have to accept all that he wants when it comes to running the game.

I don't like franchises but sometimes you have to try something to get the evidence it's not working

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Interesting.

March 20 2017, 9:43 PM 

So the story is the Counties are presently being kept going by an ECB which itself has got fat and bloated on money doled out from the ICC. Most of which ultimately comes from television subscriptions from all those immensely rich Indian folk.

Not sure I can fully buy into that scenario, perhaps the ECB should question whether SKY and Waitrose are pulling their weight!

Borrowing 16.5m, and the rest, if things go over budget, to guarantee an income stream of 1.3m a year over a 5 year period doesn't make economic sense. Not if we will get the 1.3m anyway for just nodding when the ECB tell us to nod.

Test match cricket is about to die we are told so any possible income from holding tests and other International cricket after 2019 is purely speculative. I haven't seen any figures for possible income from the new T20 competition and I think equating each one to the equivalent to an ODI is far from the mark. They don't last all day for one thing.

You are certain to lose revenue and spectators from the devalued and slimmed down ordinary T20 competition and playing the 50 over competition on out grounds will mean less cricket and less revenue for Headingley.

Vague promises of untold riches and lucrative income streams from selling our own brand pork pies and cups of tea at inflated prices from 2019 are laughable.

Yes, I do want to see a nice new stand, but the club need to come up with a much better economic case.



 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Interesting.

March 21 2017, 10:58 AM 

From Cricinfo.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/1087871.html

"Only weeks left" is the headline, but how many weeks??

Perhaps the unbiased view, without the emotion of being a supporter of the club? Not a lot of support for the idea in the postings afterwards either.


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Mar 21, 2017 10:59 AM


 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: Interesting.

March 21 2017, 11:54 AM 

My main worry about the new competition is that the ECB will use it to again cut the number of championship matches.

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: Interesting.

March 21 2017, 12:09 PM 

The George Dobell article on Cricinfo is hardly breaking news. In fact, it is merely a report of what Mark Arthur told YCCC members at the AGM on Saturday last.

 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Interesting.

March 21 2017, 12:09 PM 

Quite likely.
Soon enough the number of county championship matches will be reduced by virtue of a reduction in the number of county clubs.

 
 
WR_Metcalfe
(Login WR_Metcalfe)

Re: Interesting.

March 21 2017, 12:39 PM 

Viewing the proposed T20 competition as a concert or similar, another income stream alongside the current YCCC cricket, is a good perspective. However a concert doesn't remove our best players from our squad to hire them out to a drafted franchise.

I don't want to see Buttler playing for whoever 'we' are, whilst Jonny Bairstow is off playing for London.

 
 
Guest
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Interesting.

March 21 2017, 2:12 PM 

"The George Dobell article on Cricinfo is hardly breaking news. In fact, it is merely a report of what Mark Arthur told YCCC members at the AGM on Saturday last."

Correct, that was why I posted the link, so those who were not there get a grasp of the situation. However, neither Mark Arthur or George Dobell state exactly how long the timescale is for the phrase "only weeks left". I think September is the last date that the development can be started to be completed on time, but no idea when the finance has to be in place. I assume PDQ as before the finance can be approved there will have to be an EGM.



    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Mar 21, 2017 2:14 PM


 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Interesting.

March 21 2017, 5:59 PM 

According to David Hopps on Cricinfo, Sussex seem to have caved in to ECB blandishments. The departing Sussex chairman's comments are an object lesson in how to surrender whilst sounding like a fool.
Only Essex, Kent and Surrey left now.


 
 
 
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