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Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 2nd ODI

March 6 2017, 8:17 PM 

Very tricky situation re Buttler.

England have invested so much in him that they are loathe to drop him, especially as they probably see him as the next white ball skipper when Morgan goes.

I think he is suspect against spin, and the cleverer bowlers in general are getting his measure and can often restrict his run scoring.

More of a T20 player in my opinion but almost certain to limp along until after the Champions trophy.


 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: 2nd ODI

March 6 2017, 8:24 PM 

Neary 4500 runs, averaging 43+....that's some limp!! Can't quite believe what I'm reading on this thread now.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: 2nd ODI

March 6 2017, 8:27 PM 

3rd highest strikerate in ODI history (minimum 500 balls). Plodder!

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 2nd ODI

March 6 2017, 8:43 PM 

Buttler averages 46 at a strike rate of 130 over the last 2 years..............drop him!!

Jason Roy, only player in history to average over 40 at a strike rate of over 100.........not as good as Bairstow......drop him!

Alex Hales, averaging over 40 with 96 strike rate over the last two years........rubbish!


 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: 2nd ODI

March 6 2017, 9:00 PM 

I wouldn't consider dropping Buttler. Whatever we might feel about his keeping, he can do things with the bat that no other England player can equal - albeit on an irregular basis.
Bairstow is an exceptionally fine limited overs cricketer; almost as good as he is a Test player. I would hope that he might find a role in the side - possibly as keeper-batsman. Buttler playing as a specialist batsman at three four or five with Bairstow as keeper-batsman around seven might be worth considering.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 2nd ODI

March 6 2017, 9:04 PM 

England's RPO is the highest of any team in the last two years of ODI's, why are people possibly thinking the issue is with the batting? Conversely their bowling RPO is something like 9th..........it's pretty obvious where our limitations are!!

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Stats

March 6 2017, 9:04 PM 

Neary 4500 runs, averaging 43+....that's some limp!! Can't quite believe what I'm reading on this thread now.

I can only see 2283 runs at an average of 36.82 for Buttler!

Jonathan Trott is top of the England ODI batting averages at 51.25 why on earth was he ever dropped!

At some stage you have to drop a player if he isn't doing his job, Buttler needs an innings, this year!

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: Stats

March 6 2017, 9:22 PM 

My apologies, I quoted his List A stats. Do you really think he should be dropped though? Every other team in the Champions Trophy would be delighted if it happened.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Stats

March 6 2017, 9:22 PM 

Jonathan Trott wasn't dropped, he left the Ashes tour in 2013 before the ODI's for reasons I'm sure we all know about and his comeback lasted all of 2/3 tests against the West Indies in 2015, he then retires from International cricket. He wasn't available for any ODI's between these two series.

I was joking earlier when I asked if some on here were England selectors in the 90's, now I see people calling for players, with incredible records, to be dropped off the back of 3-4 matches. I think some on here actually might be.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Stats

March 6 2017, 10:23 PM 

Bairstow actually played a few ODIs in 2016.

198 runs at 28. SR 78.

Buttler 573 runs at 57. SR 131.

So despite Buttler's poor start to 2017, i don't think this is a guy 'who just has a little bit of potential but hasn't actually done anything'.


 
 
Lew
(Login Lewis_116)

Re: Stats

March 6 2017, 10:28 PM 

We have so much depth in ODI cricket.

Roy Root Stokes Buttler and Morgan pick themselves.

That leaves one position. Personally I would stick with Billings. He is worth the investment.

You then have Hales Duckett Bairstow Livingstone. All of them could walk into most teams.

Personally I am not a huge Ali fan and would rather give Livingstone a go, using him as the second spinner - though I am basing that on two good performances with the Lions which may be premature.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Trotty

March 6 2017, 10:39 PM 

How soon we forget!. My main point though was about Stats. Stats are history it's performances now that matter.

You round it down to 3-4 matches, actually it's more like 9-10 matches since Buttler had a half decent knock for England!

At some stage it becomes unfair on other members of the squad if they perceive whatever they do to get into the team, it will never be enough.

This is the White Rose forum and people posting have every right to push Jonny Bairstow's case. Hopefully without being trolled.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Trotty

March 6 2017, 10:45 PM 

I think it is only 4 matches.

90, 63, 57, 25, 31. The previous scores are hardly terrible.


 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Trotty

March 6 2017, 11:16 PM 

It's very simple. Ultimately a player is dropped if they can't score the runs. The only issue is when should that happen.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Trotty

March 7 2017, 8:32 AM 

If only it was simple....

Surely there has to be some element have having another alternative player not in the team but in form?

In India last winter we kept dropping batsmen from the test side and replacing them with others who were out of form like Duckett and Ballance to the point where we picked Buttler as a batsman when he hadn't played a first class game for a year.

In that case it was lack of credible options that meant all options got a go irrespective of form. Here we have a bloke not in the side in peak form but he can't get in. Yes, some of the players in front of him are undroppable but not all and what happened to squad rotation that was preached so often to give rests to players and to ensure we had quality back up in event of injury?

 
 
WR_Metcalfe
(Login WR_Metcalfe)

Re: Trotty

March 7 2017, 10:22 AM 

I think I may have started this bit of a discussion. I think Buttler is a good ODI batsman, but, seeing as these matches are not exactly of the highest importance, I would like to see the team rotated to see how everyone can perform. I would select Bairstow for Buttler, Dawson for one of the spinners and ideally Ball for Finn. Ball is injured so I don't know if they'd give Curran a game or not.

These matches are for establishing the squad for the Champions Trophy. I don't think England learn that much from playing an unchanged team three games in a row.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Trotty

March 7 2017, 8:42 PM 

I watched Jason Roy bat in 5 First Class innings during 2016. Bearing in mind that it was a bat-dominated season, thanks to the no-toss rule...well:

1 and 4 v Yorks at Headingley
2 and 9 v Lancs at Old Trafford
0 v Yorks at The Oval

Possible conclusions:

1. Sample size too small. I just caught him on bad days.
2. He doesn't really try in FC cricket.
3. He has a more positive attitude, more confidence, in the List A version.
4. The way they bowl, and the field-placings in FC, don't suit his batting method.

If #4, then, why don't they bowl like that at him (and others) in List A cricket? And set the same fields which, of course, they are allowed to do?

You will understand why I belittled his talent, without checking on his white-ball record. I know he scored 52 off 48 balls in the 2nd ODI in Antigua. I watched it! To me, he could have been out about twice every over, mixed in with some fine strokes, a sumptuous straight-drive in particular. And I accept he's good at the little dinks and ramps and sweeps which are important (and which I enjoy BTW) in one-day cricket.

I often think that if teams simply set the FC field - 3 slips, gully, short-leg - and bowled FC lines and lengths, then they would do better than spreading them out and giving singles everywhere. But, I suppose, if my tactic were to go wrong, it could go wrong big time!

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Trotty

March 7 2017, 9:12 PM 

I like Roy and Hales as an opening partnership in white ball cricket for England.

They play high risk shots obviously and it won't come off every time but it's spectacular when it does.

I think Roy will play less and less red ball cricket, unlike Hales who probably still sees himself as a test match opener.

 
 
 
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