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Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Jack Leaning

March 13 2017, 10:18 PM 

Checking Jack Leaning's figures from the links on WRF (see Cricket Archive thread), I note that he has a career FC average of 31, with 3 centuries from 40 matches, which may not be Rootish, but is very respectable.

List A average is 35 with a strike-rate of 86, which is exceptional, I would think.
Likewise his T20 stats, with 29 runs per innings and 134 per 100 balls.

Joe himself in his first 3 seasons (36 FC matches) averaged 38, with 4 centuries.
His List A average up to that time was 35, same as Jack's now.

Even great players need time to learn.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Talent and application.

March 13 2017, 11:14 PM 

Your doing a good job of building Leaning up, and I too hope he has a cracking season in 2017 and indeed a great career with Yorkshire.

However similar the stats may be by the same stage in his career Root was already playing for England.

I don't profess to be a great judge of character but my one doubt is whether Leaning, and I'll bring in Will Rhodes here too, can make the most of their talents.

I can't explain it any more than by saying that neither player appears, to me anyway, to play cricket at a high enough level of intensity.

I know they are both young and they've been a bit in and out of the side. But Leaning has his first team cap now and he should be stepping up, not just with his batting, but in the field.


 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Talent and application.

March 14 2017, 1:00 AM 

I took my Joe Root stats up to the end of the 2012 season, his third for Yorkshire, during which he scored his 222* at Southampton - the innings which convinced me that we had produced something very, very special. So the figures I quoted include that innings, but he had NOT yet played for England.

He was capped by England in India the following winter, which is proof that he was ahead of where Leaning is now. I was not trying to suggest that Leaning, or anyone else, is a second Root. If you had to be as good as Root to play for Yorkshire we would, I suggest, have had only three batsmen in our history: Sutcliffe, Hutton, Root.

What I was trying to say was that EVEN a player as good as Root takes a bit of time to come to terms with FC cricket. Others come close but never make it: think of all the Vic Cravens and Scott Richardsons, Gary Fellows and Chris Taylor. Good players, all, but unable to bridge the gap. There is no guarantee that Leaning, or Rhodes, will ever make it all the way. But Leaning already is a capped Yorkshire player, as you pointed out, and now he has a measure of England recognition, too.

He has also taken some fine catches close to the bat, both in slips and under the helmet. I'm less sure of his outfielding, where he seems not the best mover, and that might count against him for the white ball stuff. Though he's better than Alex Hales!

 
 
Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Talent and application.

March 14 2017, 1:28 PM 

Jack Leaning is a difficult one. On the one hand I think he has done enough, significantly more than Craven or the others mentioned, to suggest he should be an asset, and those who last season wanted him ditched are unreasonable in ignoring that. On the other his more recent red ball performance last year was pretty dire, and at times you thought leaving him out was almost a kindness. The writing was on the wall when the management left him out of the last match when we were desperately short of batting.

Clearly he is worth having for t20. I also think his best performances mean that it might be premature to write him off without another run in the championship side, but my fear is he's lost something, or as can happen, his weaknesses have been spotted by county bowlers. Of Craven, Richardson, Fellows and Taylor, none had really put in match championship performances of the quality that Jack has. I think only Taylor was offered a contract elsewhere. If Jack was released, several counties would chase him. If I had to find a comparison, I think he's closer to Matthew Wood than any of them.


    
This message has been edited by Idle_man on Mar 14, 2017 1:29 PM


 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Talent and application.

March 14 2017, 2:18 PM 

Yes, I thought of Matthew Wood as a comparison, too. And he scored three Championship double-centuries for Yorkshire (correct me if I'm wrong), which is three more than Brian Close scored!

I had similar thoughts on first seeing Wood as I had, later, seeing Root. It made me more cautious about proclaiming the 'obvious' genius of Joe. Matthew made runs, attractive runs, big runs. I was 100% sure that he would have a long career with England.

But then he would have a dreadful season, when he looked as though he couldn't bat at all, followed by another successful one. Overall, I suppose you would say he had a very decent career as a FC cricketer - about on a par with Ashley Metcalfe? - and I took much pleasure from watching him play.

I hope Leaning does as well. I hope he does better. I think county bowlers DID work Wood out. He was wonderfully strong off his legs, excellent cutting and pulling, and they just bowled length, in the corridor, and waited for him to nick off. For all his talent, he never quite came to terms with the bread-and-butter ball.

The depths Jack hit last year were reminiscent of Wood. It's up to him (and to Will Rhodes) to sort out the technique, get the head right, and do it. I believe he can, but I don't KNOW that he will.

By the way, it will be interesting to see how well Jennings and Hameed and Gubbins do in 2017, because the bowlers will not be unprepared for them. Darwin rules, out there.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Talent and application.

March 14 2017, 5:59 PM 

Wood and Metcalfe had similar career averages (33 and 34), which in the final analysis are not that great. Metcalfe played a lot more games of course.

 
 
Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Talent and application.

March 14 2017, 6:41 PM 

And Jack's, aged 23, is 31. 3 hundreds, 8 fifties in 63 innings. Be very unwise to write him off, but he can't afford another first-class season like 2016.

One of our issues concerns batting order. Leaning achieved his best results at no 5 or 6. He then got promoted to the vacancy at no 3, and hasn't really been the same since. Similarly Will Rhodes has batted just about everywhere except the no 6 slot he seemed destined to inherit, and which he held in the Academy and England Under 19 sides. However neither could really justify occupying 5 or 6 against some of the others who would like those berths. Tim Bresnan surely did enough last season to be batting above 7, and I still feel Gary Ballance's best place is 5. What we lack is a real number 3. There's a young man called Joe Root, I believe, who would be ideal.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Talent and application.

March 14 2017, 10:42 PM 

Starting to feel like the season is just around the corner.

For a couple of CC games neither Leaning nor Rhodes will probably get a look in anyway if JB and JR are available for selection.

There's Handscomb to fit in too, as well as Willey and Plunkett, depending on fitness.

I suppose it's a sign of the times that one or both of them might not feature much in the CC but, a la Tymal Mills or Ben Duckettt, could still make a big name for themselves in one or both of the white ball competitions.


 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Talent and application.

March 15 2017, 2:55 PM 

The season is just around the corner - 18 days to our first match.

Ronchi & Henry snapped up by Leics & Derby, but still no T20 signings for us though. It looks like we are going to settle for just Hanscombe.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Talent and application.

March 15 2017, 3:12 PM 

Still time of course, but funny that most of this thread is about who we leave out to accommodate Jack Leaning but we assume that a second overseas player must be a better bet. Jack averages 30 and has a strike rate of 134. Ronchi has a slightly better strike rate (141) but averages 20. I always feel that a second overseas is desirable but not at any cost.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Talent and application.

March 15 2017, 5:41 PM 

There is room for both Jack & a second overseas.

I was thinking along the lines of Lyth, Willey, Leaning, overseas, Ballance, Hanscombe, Bresnan, Plunkett, Rashid, Rafiq, & Fisher.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Talent and application.

March 15 2017, 5:47 PM 

Excellent line up Stu.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Excellent line up

March 15 2017, 6:56 PM 

Perhaps the line up would be better with a Caveat on the space left for an overseas player. (i.e world beating overseas, or Indian captain, or South African Superstar.

After all there's one or two hit and miss overseas out there.

Presume replacing the hole with Lees would make it a poor line up!

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: Excellent line up

March 15 2017, 7:04 PM 

He's a Yorkshire player now so let's get his name right - Handscomb. Apologies for pedantry!

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Excellent line up

March 15 2017, 7:46 PM 

OK Seadog. Pedantry rules ok!!

 
 
sid
(Login sid-don)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Excellent line up

March 15 2017, 10:04 PM 

Stu: That's a title challenging team. With Lees instead of the second overseas I still think its a title challenging team and its a bit more 'Yorkshire'.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Excellent line up

March 16 2017, 11:17 AM 

The overseas batter just puts the icing on the cake. Agree, Lees will not weaken us to much though.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Excellent line up

March 16 2017, 12:47 PM 

Slightly off-topic, but personal to me, if you look up Kane Williamson on Wikipedia, you will see that he's wearing Yorkshire kit in the photograph, which was taken at Scarborough.

Fame at last! Or proof that Wiki really is cash-strapped, coming to me for permission rather than using an agency photo.

If proof were needed that there are no guarantees in cricket, Kane's figures for Yorkshire don't quite reflect the talent, which I think we all recognised. Pujara struggled in his early innings, and the Big Show was mainly a No-Show, until he played a match-changing innings at Scarborough, and a match-winning one-day ton at Worcester, which I also attended, unusually (free ticket).

And now he could get a Test century, which will be marked with a squadron of pigs fly-past.

 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: Excellent line up

March 16 2017, 4:00 PM 

Congratulations for your Wiki recognition DM.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Excellent line up

March 16 2017, 9:05 PM 

As longs as it's Wikipedia and not Wikileaks you are moonlighting for!

 
 
 
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