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Breaking news on Headingley future

March 28 2017 at 11:11 PM
Brian  (Login NewBrian)

 
It's good and hopefully secures international cricket. Details available in the am.

The Yorkshire Post has full details tomorrow.


    
This message has been edited by NewBrian on Mar 28, 2017 11:12 PM


 
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Ball_Sup (Phil)
(Login ball_sup)

Re: Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 7:46 AM 

I NEED to build an extension on my house. Because I need a Man Cave. With state of the art TV & Satellite systems linked to all Worldwide Franchised T20 broadcasts. I'm going to put a refrigeration unit in & a wall of Craft Beer kegs. With high abv heavily hopped IPAs on tap. I NEED this & if I don't get it, I'll have a right old tantrum.

No matter what I tried, I couldn't afford to pay back the extra £100 per month that remortgaging would cost. So, the nasty bank wouldn't lend me the money to build the Man Cave I NEED. But, I've had the last laugh. Another bank are going to build the Man Cave & own it. And, then they'll rent it to me for £120 a month. Which is much better for me.

We're all good here.

Phil


    
This message has been edited by ball_sup on Mar 29, 2017 7:48 AM


 
 
just grazing
(Login Justgrazing)

There goes £1.3million

March 29 2017, 8:42 AM 

The banks are lending at extortionate rates above base rate at the moment so the best the club could hope for from a private funded lease arrangement would probably work out, if we are fortunate, around 8%. Borrowing £17 million at that rate would cost around £1.3 million in interest repayments (lease) without denting the capital sum though as it is leased we will be paying for the stand into infinity without ever owning it.

So we have sold the soul of county cricket for £1.3 million a year from 2020 and already spent that amount 3 years before we have received anything. It's going to make a bit of a hole in our £3000 annual profit over the next few years.

Headingley has become a series of vanity projects that are sucking the life out of the club. We should have cut it loose 20 years ago. Now its's time to cut our losses and get out.

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: There goes £1.3million

March 29 2017, 8:53 AM 

".....cut our losses and get out". And do what?

 
 
just grazing
(Login Justgrazing)

Re: There goes £1.3million

March 29 2017, 9:01 AM 

There are over 800 outgrounds in Yorkshire. I'm sure our board can come up with a solution without committing financial suicide.

 
 
YorkTyke
(Login YorkTyke)

Re: Breaking News on Headingley Future

March 29 2017, 9:24 AM 


 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Breaking News on Headingley Future

March 29 2017, 9:44 AM 

Truth is that we don't really know the precise detail of what has been arranged here. The fact that LCC has to get agreement from its Executive Board presumably means that they are either acting as guarantor should the clubs be unable to pay the rent, or maybe LCC will pay the lease and then collect the rent from the two clubs? From what the YEP is saying, the rent would be paid over a period of time - so is this in effect a buy to rent arrangement - borrowing by any other name?

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: There goes £1.3million

March 29 2017, 10:35 AM 

"There are over 800 outgrounds in Yorkshire. I'm sure our board can come up with a solution without committing financial suicide."

Given such an apparently obvious solution, it is rather surprising that the YCCC Board have not adopted it already. However, as it stands, this suggestion seems rather short on detailed analysis.

Which of the "800 outgrounds" is being proposed? At the AGM, Martyn Moxon explained, in a response to a question from the floor, that Abbeydale Park in Sheffield (presumably one of the likelier "outgrounds") is not used even for 2nd XI Fixtures as the playing facilities do not come up to the required standard. Presumably, the same would be the case at the other grounds, with the possible exception of Scarborough. It follows that development would be required, starting from an even weaker base than Headingley; and, of course, such development would need investment.

Am I missing something?


 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Breaking News on Headingley Future

March 29 2017, 11:22 AM 

More debt, more debt, more debt - all to stage ONE GAME OF CRICKET PER YEAR. Perhaps.

It's like me deciding to buy a £1 million house rather than a £100,000 one, just in case Prince Charles might fancy a night's stay sometime. In fact, I rent for £400 per month, and there's no room for ANYONE to stay! And I don't owe anyone a penny...

It's not as though, historically, we played all that many games at Headingley. I checked on 1957 (60 years ago) and of the 14 County Championship home games, only 3 were at Headingley, with 3 each at Bradford and Sheffield, which were also the venues for the two matches (!) against the touring W Indies. Headingley, of course, got the Test, a total of 14 days' first class cricket for Leeds.

There were 2 Championship games at Scarborough + the festival fixtures, and one each for Middlesbrough, Hull and Harrogate, where Yorkshire also played a 3-day fixture against a very strong RAF XI.

Chris Waters seems to think that Headingley is synonymous with Yorkshire cricket. I wish we could get out of there, but we're now caught up in a spiral of debt, and it's going to kill us. I cannot begin to understand how owning the place could be thought a good idea. If you own a house you can sell it, and you benefit from inflating prices. Neither applies here.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 1:31 PM 

from the YP article

".....The club would pay £17m in rent over a period of years and Leeds Rugby £18m, with the rugby operation providing a further £5m......."

How many years? It sounds like a further 17M debt to me.

There will be an EGM for approval according to the article.

Probably about £2m a year going forward, going out in lease payments and interest on existing loans.




 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 3:11 PM 

As far as the club is concerned paying a lease is no different to borrowing the money unless I am completely misunderstanding this. I think the reason for this model is that the Council would not gift the £4 million nor would they lend it to the club. In this way, the Council act as guarantor but are able to say that they are not lending or giving money away.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 5:39 PM 

From todays "Press"

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/cricket/yorkshire/15186780.Yorkshire_receive_Headingley_cash_boost/?ref=mac

An interesting last para

".....With such a busy international schedule at Headingley that summer, Yorkshire are planning to move some county matches to the regenerated Bradford Park Avenue, last used for first-class cricket in 1996."

So we go £40m into debt so the ECB & the ICC can use our ground, but we have to play OUR matches elsewhere!! It gets dafter by the minute. Something drastically wrong with that!!


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Mar 29, 2017 5:41 PM


 
 
Ball_Sup (Phil)
(Login ball_sup)

Re: Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 5:51 PM 

We could Cut our Losses & stay put. That is an option. Don't build a stand which the ECB need, but YCCC do not. Be positive. Live within our means. Become a Cricket Club again. Turn Rump Headingley into a superb place to watch YCCC County, 50 over & T20 Domestic Cricket.

I sympathise with the view that Headingley has become a Vanity Project. My spin is....

Denison & Arthur do NOT want their legacy to be the end of International Cricket at Headingley. They're desperate men. They'll gamble anything to avoid that "legacy". Even gamble the very existence of the Club. Pushing it into unsustainable debt.

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

County Matches played elsewhere

March 29 2017, 6:10 PM 

The situation regarding the need to use outgrounds for County Fixtures, due to the scheduling of a Test and three ODI's at Headingley in 2019, was very clearly explained at the AGM. No-one demurred.

However, concerns regarding security of parked vehicles in Bradford were raised.

Perhaps, it is necessary to revisit the reasons for investment at Headingley.

The underlying rationale is one of producing sufficient revenues to facilitate the continuation of professional cricket in Yorkshire. If that is best done by hosting Tests and ODI's at Headingley, then it would appear that development would have achieved its aims.

The question behind all of this is, "Does YCCC want to be involved in all brands of cricket"?

The answer given by members at General Meetings of the Club has, so far, been that it should.

So the Club then becomes a business which engages in the provision of Tests, ODI's, International T20's, County Championship, ListA Fixtures, T20's and will look to become a venue for one of the 8 city-based T20 "franchises". In other words, the game has moved on and YCCC has moved on with it.

Headingley is not just a County Ground like Grace Road or New Road; rather it becomes an international standard cricket stadium, which can host any of the various types of fixture. The income from all these sources is then used to keep YCCC solvent.

It is a fundamentally different way of looking at things.

A by-product is that professional cricket will played in more places in Yorkshire; perhaps this is no bad thing.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 6:37 PM 

The debate appears to be splitting into two completely different views.

On the one side we have the "cut our losses and run" point of view with no further debt.

On the other side we have the "speculate to accumulate" point of view.

The EGM, that the club HAVE to call, as they are going into debt of more than 25m, and they can not do that without the consent of the members, WILL decide the outcome.

Just hope that everyone who can vote does, and then we all accept the decision whatever that may be. It will be to late to change our minds afterwards or reverse the decision.




 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 7:00 PM 

The problem, BB, is that the income from these high profile games seems hardly to cover the cost of putting them on, let alone the millions that have already been spent (wasted) on ground improvements to qualify Headingley to be allotted those games.

Now we've come so far, it probably makes sense to go that extra mile (or million). And if the spin-off is that it will force YCCC to play at so-called outgrounds, then that's an unexpected benefit.

There could be a problem with parking on Canterbury Avenue (is it called?), but there is no problem with street parking at Scarborough, and Abbeydale Park always seemed to have enough space inside. Harrogate is no hotbed of crime, either, and I parked easily enough just outside the ground on my last visit in 1994 or 95, would it have been? Richie Richardson was playing.

Actually, one of the plus points of Headingley is the safe and plentiful street parking, and its proximity to dining facilities and shops and, of course, public transport. That whole package is not matched by ANY other major cricket venue, and probably only by Hove of all the minor ones.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 7:48 PM 

Seems to me that worrying about parking safety at Bradford Park Avenue in three years time is the least of our worries! I would love to see the hard evidence that cars are more likely to be stolen in that part of Bradford

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Parking

March 29 2017, 8:14 PM 

Perhaps members could park in crime free Leeds and be bused over to Bradford with a police escort!

Come on, you know Scarborough makes sense for the extra matches! Fish and chips and ice cream!


    
This message has been edited by Coastalview on Mar 29, 2017 8:16 PM


 
 
Saltburn senior
(Login Saltburnsenior)

Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 8:57 PM 

Indeed Martin - there are more immediate concerns ! I've just read through the posts on this topic and really cannot understand the attitude of those who appear not to accept the realities of the current situation. I suspect I am in a minority but I believe the Board have addressed the issues sensibly and correctly and they have my backing. They have reported developments to the membership as and when appropriate in my view, and I am satisfied that matters can safely be left in their hands going forward.
More years ago than I care to admit to, I studied 'A' level Economics and whilst I would not claim any expertise in this field still recall one of the maxims of the Tutor - "Bygones are forever bygones". Applying this maxim to the current Headingley issues (and posts on this Forum), I would say that whatever should or might have happened 20 years ago is totally irrelevant in the context of decisions to made now.
DM -it's unusual for me to disagree with your assertions but I do feel that the analogy of your personal financial arrangements with those of YCCC is a little mischievous and provides little help to the current position and the decisions which needed to be made.
I admit I DO like Headingley as a venue for both Yorkshire and International cricket and am grateful that the situation of 60 years ago as described by DM no longer exists.
As indicated earlier, so far as the proposed development is concerned, I support the Board, endorse their handling of matters to date and trust them to act in the interests of YCCC and its members.

 
 
Ball_Sup (Phil)
(Login ball_sup)

Re: Breaking news on Headingley future

March 29 2017, 9:26 PM 

Go on then.
When Caddick owned bits of Headingley, we were told - Yorkshire must own their own ground & the facilities. It was the only way forward for the Club.

Now we've done the hard yards & we do own the ground. To be told - someone else (Caddick Two) must own bits of Headingley & the facilities. It is the only way forward for the Club.

Come on Board Apologists. Which one is it?

Me, I'm not having it.....

Phil

 
 
 
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