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Dave
(Login rognumber)

Concerns regarding our overseas batsman

June 22 2017, 10:20 AM 

So the question is what's going wrong...I thought Handscomb was doing ok until I checked his CC average - if u take away his 101* against Lancs it's means he has 338 runs @ 30.7
Pretty useless with our fragile batting !

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 10:32 AM 

An average of 40 is not really good enough for an overseas player - because this is what we expect of our domestic players (Lees and Lyth normally average this for example). I noticed that Handscomb had a poor return when he went to Gloucestershire (?) a couple of seasons ago, but since then has very much been the coming man- it is hard to argue with the signing based on his Test Match form, and the fact that we are keeping him for much of the season. He can have a storming back end and all will be fine - I hope so!


    
This message has been edited by Martinh00 on Jun 22, 2017 10:32 AM


 
 
garywilson
(Login garywilson2)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 10:34 AM 

The batting in general has been a worry for some time . The cracks papered over by some outstanding individual efforts . Bairstow a couple of seasons ago. Ballance now . The question is why have none of the big hopes really prospered . Lees and Leaning for example . One has already been left out for a debutant and the other may soon lose his place .
Add to that the fact that Lyth seems to be struggling . Gale too lost form last year before retiring . Some people were calling for him to leave himself out and bring in Leaning who is now out of the side too.



    
This message has been edited by garywilson2 on Jun 22, 2017 10:38 AM


 
 
Dave
(Login rognumber)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 10:36 AM 

Yep if Ballance goes to the Tests then Handscomb needs to start scoring heavily to give us any chance

 
 
PaulYorks
(Login PaulYorks2)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 10:48 AM 

I remember from my playing days that Aussie batsmen often struggle here in the early part of the season. Hopefully Handscomb will improve as he acclimatises. Sangakkara, Chanderpaul and Vilas are all much older than PH, and the first two in particular have a lot more experience in English conditions.

 
 
Dave
(Login rognumber)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 10:54 AM 

That's an interesting observation Paul. However with half the CC matches now gone it does not give PH much time. So perhaps we need to sign someone with the experience of English conditions of they are going to be able to contribute the whole season

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 11:25 AM 

Can we forget this idea we can solve the problem by signing more players.

We need the ones we have got to be available, do better and compete.

In this last game we left out Leaning and there is already TKC now in the wings who has first team experience elsewhere.

We have Bresnan unavailable for family reasons. We have Enid Blytons famous five away with England and we have to leave out Rafiq and Fisher already.

It's down to the current squad to get us out this mess.

 
 
twenty2guns
(Login twenty2guns)

Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 11:47 AM 

Looking at the averages none of Lyth, Lees and Leaning can have any argument if they're dropped. Lyth, 291 runs in 7 games with 100 coming in one innings.

The bowling averages for Brooks and Patterson are also a cause for concern.

The only players who can be happy with their performances so far are Ballance, Coad and Sidebottom.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 12:01 PM 

Yes, If we were selecting on merit & current form, Ballance, Coad & Siddy would be our only 3 players, and one of them may be missing after our next two matches.

 
 
garywilson
(Login garywilson2)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 12:03 PM 

Another thing is that young batsmen just coming into the side are unknown quantities for the opposition and thus sometimes score a lot of runs before the bowlers and coaches of the other teams find a weakness to exploit . The second season can often be hard and i think this has been what has happened to some of our bright prospects .

 
 
littleoldme.
(Login littleoldme.)

Lord's

June 22 2017, 3:39 PM 

I was at Lord's and there is no doubt it was a crucial toss to lose. When they racked up 446 there was little sign of the uneven bounce our batsman had to endure over the course of Tuesday and Wednesday. . ... .For me it was always going to be lost the toss, lost the match. There is no doubt too that the very hot sun really baked that pitch and if you "moaners" have ever played the game you will know that it aint too much fun when the ball hits a crack and whistles past your nose only to be bowled next ball when it rolls along the ground past your ankles!
A Buchan

 
 
littleoldme.
(Login littleoldme.)

points penalty

June 22 2017, 3:51 PM 

For me that was not a 4 day track and Middlesex should docked points for producing an unfit wicket! Lord's is their home ground although they are at the mercy of the MCC groundstaff and should be facing a points penalty for this farce of a pitch!
A Buchan

 
 
Brian
(Login NewBrian)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 4:05 PM 

Didn't they score 446 on it?

 
 
Guest
(Login pdowgill)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 4:28 PM 

13 batting points out of a possible 35 with only Somerset & Warks worse (both played a game less) I think says it all - Surrey up next have 22, so it does not fill me with confidence that we can match them. Tyke1950 comments are spot on.

 
 
Tyke 1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 4:53 PM 

Littleoldme was right about the crucial advantage of batting first in this match and, indeed, the result could have been different if the Yorkshire batsmen enjoyed first use of it.
However, this shouldn't disguise the plain weaknesses of the team selected. The seamers performed well but were clearly outbowled by the splendid Middlesex unit. Ballance excepted, no batsman had the determination or skill to withstand the pressure exerted on them.

It occurred to me that Yorkshire should play Patterson or Coad; not both. At the moment, Coad looks the likelier proposition. Perhaps Fisher should have played instead of Patto.
A further observation. Coad is a good young prospect, but, like batsmen, the limitations of bowlers are quickly identified by opposing teams. He lacks pace and hasn't as yet learned to be as guileful as (say) Murtagh. On hard, flat mid-season wickets he'll find wicket taking much more difficult. His big challenges are coming up very soon. I hope he can show the resourcefulness and determination to push on.

 
 
Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 5:15 PM 

Interested in the comments on the pitch. Though they did indeed score 446, it's worth remembering that Middlesex lost their last six wickets for about 100 in little more than a session on day 2, a performance which was on a par with our efforts which followed. I'm not saying there aren't issues relating to batting - there are - to be addressed, but everything went the way of Middlesex this time.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 5:36 PM 

Agree re the toss and the wicket. Day 1 it was great for batting on, days 2 and 3 it was a minefield.

4 wickets on the first day, 26 in the next 5 sessions and their batting was not much better than ours on the second day. We do still have major problems with our first five, with one exception, and we did not bat well, but the quickly deteriorating wicket did have an affect on the outcome of the match.

 
 
littleoldme.
(Login littleoldme.)

170 overs

June 22 2017, 6:57 PM 

That wicket broke up after about 170 overs. Check out Jack Brooks dismissal in the 1st innings! It rolled along the ground before taking out his middle stump. Nick Cook and Jeff Evans ( the umpires) should mark their pitch report very low marks. We have batting and bowling points to regulate the pitch and in my opinion that track was substandard and we should be reading about a pitch penalty for Middlesex this morning.
A Buchan

 
 
Jay
(Login overman8)

Re: Championship | Middlesex vs Yorkshire at Lord's (Day Three)

June 22 2017, 7:57 PM 

You complained about others 'moaning' but that's all you seem to be doing in regard to the pitch. We lost simple as, some of the batsmen didn't help their cause either with some terrible shots.

 
 
 
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