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Team in decline

June 28 2017 at 10:49 AM
Stu  (Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

We appear to be a team in decline, in all aspects of the the game.

Bowling ---

Siddy in his last year, and already feeling the strain. he asked to be left out for the current match as he felt unable to bowl 40 or more overs.

Brooks, Patto & Bresnan `s performances well down on last year, maybe age beginning to tell on them also.

Plunkett, Willey & Rashid hardly ever play for us now (four CC matches between them all season).

Batting ---

Apart from one exception, who will be missing from now until early September, we have no one reliable and playing up to their undoubted ability.

Bresnan`s dip in bowling form has also, unfortunately coincided with a dip in his batting, which means not as many runs from the middle order as in the last two or three years.

Fielding ----

Does not appear to be as sharp as it used to be. Catches going down regularly, and the ground fielding has deteriorated alarmingly.

I am sure we will not go down, as Somerset & Warwickshire are far worse than us, but my pre-season prediction of 3rd or 4th is now looking wildly optimistic, and 5th or 6th more likely.

Why the decline. I will be interested in posters opinions.

New coach not up to the job?

No specialised bowling coach could account for the drop in our bowling performances. Last season we had the best seam attack in the country, we are a long way from that now.

I believe, we do need to give AG some time to get into the job, but a couple of "yorkies"at Essex seem to have got up to speed a lot quicker. Look at the progress they have made in a very short time. Division Two last year, possible Champions this year.

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(Login marskeman)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 10:53 AM 

see my post on my first match.


Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 11:19 AM 

Just the life-cycle of a team. Compare England rugby after winning 2003 World Cup, and I'm sure there are lots of other examples from soccer.

The best teams have a nice mixture of ages. Liverpool FC even used to pension off good players only just past their prime, so the mixture always stayed about the same. YCCC have almost managed this, with the exception of the pace bowling attack. It needed just one of the Sanderson, Hannon-Dalby, Lee group to make it, and we would have been fine.

But now the ageing attack is wilting, if only a little, and suddenly our batsmen (minus England players) find themselves under scoreboard pressure which, until now, had been something WE did to others.

Our production line of young players should see us through any potential crisis over the next few years, but there's no guarantee against relegation. Somerset are a very good side and they could go down because, in their case, it's the batsmen who are in decline.

What is important is that fielding standards do not slip, and it is this aspect that worries me most. We were so flat in this game; I never even heard Bairstow, and only Lyth a couple of times, in contrast to the buzz down at Somerset, where Hodd and Carver were particularly lively, and Rafiq passionate and noisy.

We don't seem to be getting much from our Aussie. I suppose there had to be ONE who wasn't a big mouth.

(Login Seadog73)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 11:34 AM 

Sadly the only was was down from the peak of 2014 and 2015. However I don't think we've declined as much as some think, this team will still destroy the opposition more often than vice versa. There are promising replacements for the ageing bowlers (Coad, Fisher, Wainman, Warner) and now may be the time to play two of them at any one time rather than just one. The batting doesn't actually worry me that much, with Brook and Kohler-Cadmore now providing competition for places which wasn't there before. We can still win the title, but right now I think we'll finish second or third.

Tyke 1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 12:43 PM 

I wish I were as optimistic as you Seadog.

Our seam attack is in trouble. Anno domini is doing its sad worst. The youngsters can be over-egged. Coad has made splendid progress and will prove to be an excellent replacement for Patterson; but he lacks pace and I suspect may struggle to sustain his volume of wickets on harder midsummer wickets. Fisher remains a work in progress. I have high hopes of him but not for 2017.
The others you mention are either support bowlers or else unproven at first team level.
Looking around, several of the First Division seam attacks are more potent than ours - Middlesex, Surrey, Essex, Somerset,

The batting is out of form but may recover its potency in the near future. At least most of them have youth on their side.

Like Dave, I worry about the fielding, which lacks mobility in the deep; worse, the catching has become more fallible this year. Lyth has dropped quite a few he would previously have snaffled and there have been others close to the wicket who have proved frail.

We may have to reconcile ourselves to two or three years of patient rebuilding. I have every faith in Moxon and Gale. I suspect though that there be one or two discontented sailors on board HMS Yorkshire.

This message has been edited by Tyke1950 on Jun 28, 2017 1:01 PM

(Login Bear4)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 2:28 PM 

The fielding is certainly a worry. Can anyone explain the thought process of converting Alex Lees from a pretty good slip to an average outfielder, especially at cover point?

(Login harg49)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 4:32 PM 

Just come back after a few days visiting friends in Essex and met a few jubilant local cricket fans, there is some astonishment but now real belief that this will be there year, so yes there has been a huge uptick in results since Silverwood and McGrath started working together. You have to take into account though that apart from Cook (and he has been available for all of the first 8 county games)they are not troubled by International selections so have had the advantage of playing a settled team. Further the bowling was identified during the close season as needing improvement hence the recruitment of Wagner, Amir and the young South African off spinner Harmer who seems to becoming increasingly proficient.It does help when you are able to go out and buy the finished product, our own Yorkies have to develop the talent.

(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 4:58 PM 

Coincidence or not? No test calls for Essex and top of the table, perhaps having a settled side helps.

Having said that Warwickshire & Somerset also have no test calls, and both are cast away by a long way at the bottom of the table.

Tyke 1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 5:21 PM 

...and a few decent home grown Essex players as well.

Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 5:31 PM 

Some mention on another thread on the same lines intimating that the decline has been going on for some time and only some great individual performances have bailed us out.

I tend to think that a fair number of matches turn on a couple of individual performances.

There's been some crazy results so far this season with teams getting well beaten and immediately turning it round and doing it to another team in the next match.

Only Essex have bucked the trend so far and we have to play them twice yet.

I think we will be in the mix come the end of a season when we will be in a better position to judge.

(Login Alibor2)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 6:09 PM 

After the problems which our team encountered against the Middlesex seam trio of Murtagh, Finn, Roland Jones and newcomer Higgins at Lords, the Essex opening pair are going along merrily amassing 300+. Makes you wonder about our batting decline? Hopefully, if they do play tomorrow, the top order will show more resolve, especially with the addition of the two England stars.

(Login marskeman)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 7:30 PM 

essex have a decent opener called cook.

(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 7:44 PM 

We get hammered by Middlesex, and Essex doing a very similar job on Middlesex, and we still have Essex to play twice.

Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 8:22 PM 

But that's a good thing Stu!. They lose Cook and start playing rubbish, we find some form and confidence and overhaul them on the last day of the season. How nice would that be.

Essex now doing what Surrey did to us and going for quick runs.

Nick Browne was talked about for England a couple of seasons ago, perhaps his time has come!

Paul D
(Login pdowgill)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 8:28 PM 

We are in decline and have been since the end of 2015 - last season lower order batting saved us. I wonder if Gillespie was aware of this? I could not understand how Gale go the post, what qualifications did he have exactly? Willey was an interesting 'buy' - another one who has not really developed (is he currently really any better than Rhodes?). Also others such as Lees have just not developed as expected - is it a mental problem? Rashid is an interesting case, with Crane developing quickly i think his place in the England set up will not last too long - I am not convinced by him as a 4 day bowler, so where is out next leggy? Not relegation this year and possibly 5th but next year....

(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Team in decline

June 28 2017, 8:33 PM 

A team in decline can be a sign of an ageing team or a team with players out of form and not reaching the dizzy heights of their peak.

I think of our team only Siddy is in the twilight of his career although it's fair to say others like Bresnan, Patto and Brooks are not going to get a lot better and push for international recognition. Others like Ballance, Lyth, Lees, Leaning, Rashid, Willey, should all still have ambitions to play for England or the Lions but few have the form currently to justify.

I discount Root and Bairstow as they are England players who we occasionally see.

So I'm not sure we are a team in decline as much as a team out of form and not quite firing. This gives me the hope the current team can come good again whereas an ageing team is unlikely to do so. You only have to remember how quickly Gale and Mags faded away and retired when they knew time was up.

So, form is temporary but can those missing it find it again as soon as we want?

If not the talent is still in the pipeline as Coad and Brook and Waite have shown this season

(Login JollyD)

Team in decline

June 28 2017, 10:42 PM 

You pose a lot of questions, Paul D, most of them, I suspect, rhetorical. The one about Gillespie's possible awareness that the best was past is interesting. What is certain is that under his tutelage the team became practically unbeatable. If they couldn't win a match, they made sure they did not lose it. This no longer appears to be the case. Nor do visiting teams now appear to fear 'fortress Headingley'.
To answer one of your questions, within the club's junior system are two promising leg break bowlers, one aged almost 17, the other 15. They have a long way to go but both are economical wicket takers.

(Login Y4EV)

Team in Decline

June 28 2017, 11:41 PM 

Win one game and we'll suddenly be in the mix again.

(Login Y4EV)

Team in transition

June 30 2017, 4:06 PM 

Ok, so we're probably all accepting by now that the team is in a transitional stage right now, with the seam attack aging, batting not at peak form etc. But it's not all doom and gloom. It's been a great season in terms of the amount of talent coming through, Coad, Waite, Carver and Brook all looking promising at the start of their career, the signing of Kohler-Cadmore is a positive signing for the future as well. We still have a lot of quality in this team, but a lot need to find form sooner rather than later. It will be a worry when we're not able to rely on Balance and Sidebottom to get us out of the red. I think the last thing we need is a toxic atmosphere developing across supporters and the team as a result losing more and more confidence. If we can't win the title, which is looking less and less likely, then we need to believe we can do the next best thing and finish a respectable 2nd or 3rd. If we can do that, and with the talent breaking through, it's still a very good time to be a Yorkshire supporter.

(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Team in decline

July 1 2017, 12:55 AM 

In the last four seasons, Yorkshire have twice won the title and had a second and a third place (the latter in dubious circumstances). The expectation that success will carry on indefinitely when 3-4 key players have been taken from the team by England is unrealistic.
Some of the batsmen are not in the best of form, but that is something that happens. Ask Haseeb Hameed, who was an England opener five minutes ago but seemingly can't buy a run. Or Nick Gubbins, who has been widely touted as a potential replacement for Hameed and yet still has a f/c average that is 0.5 below our own Alex Lees. Or the much-fancied Tom Abell, whose last five f/c scores are 6, 4, 0, 0 and 0.
Some of the bowlers are underperforming, but one of them is certainly exceeding expectations and there are others in the wings.
I think we need a bit of perspective. No team in sport is invincible forever. It just doesn't happen. As LUTyke says, let's not add spectator toxicity to the mix at this point, especially as it's the halfway stage of the season and the county, while underperforming to some extent, is still a full 53 points above the relegation zone.

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