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JollyD
(Login JollyD)

Team in decline

July 1 2017, 9:41 AM 

At last, and not unexpectedly, we have some detached objectivity from Dewsburian. No-one cares more than the players about their loss of form, both individually and collectively.
They are also hurt by the abuse occasionally shouted from the members' enclosures. They feel that the members, at least, should be more supportive in troubled times, not less so.
I recall that David Byas, when captain and then manager, referred to those who hurled insults from the anonymity of the crowd, as 'the hyenas of Headingley'.
I hope that on this forum, at least, we continue to offer support to players who have already given us much pleasure and no little success in recent times.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Team in decline

July 1 2017, 11:35 AM 

I mentioned during the RL cup match v Surrey that Mark Butcher said he liked to play at Headingley in those games because the tension in the crowd transmitted itself to the players and made the opposition's task easier.

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: Team in decline

July 1 2017, 11:45 AM 

That doesn't surprise me at all. I sometimes wonder how players can ever enjoy playing at Headingley.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Team in decline

July 1 2017, 11:52 AM 

No-one is disputing that we do not support the team even in the bad times, but that does not change the fact that we ARE a team in decline from where we were a couple of years ago. Some of our supporters are concerned about that, but we still back our players at all times and hope that they will come good at some point in the future.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Team in decline

July 1 2017, 12:20 PM 

I'm not trying to bully anyone into withholding criticism where it's due. I've made plenty myself in the past. But Butcher's remarks were helpful because they suggest a way the "supporters" can actually support the team.

 
 
LUTyke
(Login Y4EV)

Re: Team in decline

July 1 2017, 4:15 PM 

Definitely share peoples concerns and welcome people for sharing them, but I do get a feeling quite a few members of our fanbase are pretty quick to knee jerk reactions (I would include myself in that until I calm down a couple of days later). For example I think it would be foolish to get shut of Lees and Leaning when they still have a lot of time on their hands, but yet there's threads on here suggesting we do just that. A player or aspect of our game could be doing generally ok but then one or two dissapointing outings and suddenly it's a major concern. I think we also have to take into account a few of our out of form players have come back from injury and long spells out of the team (e.g. Jack Brooks).

I suspect this is the case with a lot of fanbases, and I'm not suggesting all or even the majority of Yorkshire fans are like this. Interesting to hear about crowd tension at Headingley being so regular, didn't know that. I would suspect a lot of them are you ger supporters who do not get a cricket atmosphere. I wonder if the lack of success from certain Yorkshire based football teams (one in particular comes to mind :L) is a contributing factor lol.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Team in decline

July 1 2017, 4:55 PM 

Read those words the next time you get the urge to start another relegation thread!

 
 
risep
(Login risep)

a team in decline?

July 1 2017, 4:56 PM 

It did seem rather worrying on Monday, and the short bit of Tuesday when there was any play, that the body language of our fielders was not encouraging. As has been mentioned, there was very little noise, some slightly pedestrian fielding and not much to cheer about either.
But Surrey is a strong batting side, Brooks appeared to have an off day (was he fully fit? he seemed to come in off a short run), no Sid and Rash didn't appear to have adjusted back to the CC. It was my first sight of Coad though (living on the South coast I can only manage one or two home games a season) and that was impressive. Fluent, smooth action and he seemed to be the best hope of a wicket. He should have had three but saw a slip chance grassed by Adam Lyth - to the disgust of spectators around me. Is it fanciful of me to imagine that there is something reminiscent of Brian Statham about Coad?
The best fielding in my view came from Root and Handscombe - they were energetic, enthusiastic and always tried to lift the team. I also wonder why Lees has been banished to cover point - it doesn't seem to be his natural position or one he relishes.
When we finally got in to bat, our openers didn't look too comfortable. Joe Root looked a class apart, even though he only faced about eight balls. And Lees did hit one very handsome straight drive to the boundary before the rain returned.
But six hours each way is a long drive to see that........the next time will be in September when we face Warwickshire when at least my wife will share the driving.

 
 
peter
(Login wakefieldfan)

the good of yorkshire cricket

July 1 2017, 6:53 PM 

Is now the time to NOT renew the contracts of England players and concentrate on the first team and not team England . rashid a player who does not want to play for Yorkshire root who only plays when ecb says yes , and bairstow who just does what the ecb says willey cant get into a test side ,plunkett who cant get into a full strength England side .

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Team in decline

July 1 2017, 7:30 PM 

"Is now the time to NOT renew the contracts of England players and concentrate on the first team and not team England?"
No, that would be completely insane.
"rashid a player who does not want to play for Yorkshire"
Have you any evidence for that statement?
"root who only plays when ecb says yes , and bairstow who just does what the ecb says"
That is true of all the centrally contracted players. Hales and Broad only play for Notts when the ECB says they can. Do you think Notts should have fired them?
"willey cant get into a test side ,plunkett who cant get into a full strength England side."
When did any county offload players simply because they can't get into the test side? And since you seem to want to sack the players who do get into the England team, then presumably you'd be getting rid of the entire playing staff!

 
 
East Coast Type
(Login EastCoastType)

Re: Team in decline

July 1 2017, 8:06 PM 

I think the truth lies between what peter and Dewsburian say. I am sure playing for Yorkshire is affected by being in the England circus - just human nature to be a bit distracted / less focused and it is not helped by the ECB's high-handedness. None of this would be a problem if we had, say, two players in the England teams. The problem is that 6 are, with some playing in more than one format. It can't help the Yorkshire team that no-one ever know who is playing from one week to another.

 
 

Alex
(Premier Login AlexRoberts)
Owner

Re: Team in decline

July 2 2017, 5:06 AM 

An interesting thread with many, and often diverse opinions.

I see Yorkshire's struggle as a confluence of events, with an obvious decline in the skill set of some of our players and a hopefully only a temporary loss of form by others - but most importantly I blame the catastrophic and destabilizing effects of losing six first-team players to the ECB.

It is obvious that Yorkshire are disproportionately effected by the England call-ups, which is exacerbated by a fixture schedule that appears to be randomly generated by someone who suffers from the Dunning-Kruger syndrome.

While club management can address the decline in performance of players by recruiting reinforcements, little can be done about the seemingly serendipitous decisions that the ECB makes as to which of our BEST players will or will not be available to play for Yorkshire. A system that has turned the county scene into crap shoot, where the best teams are in effect penalized for turning out the best players. And while I certainly appreciate that the clubs depend on the ECB for critical funds, I am also convinced that the current ECB central contract system, seemingly random fixture list and “trickle-up” business model is not sustainable, and will eventually destroy the credibility and integrity of the County Championship as a sporting competition.
















 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: Team in decline

July 2 2017, 7:17 AM 

Reading some of the comments on this thread, I do not agree with any thoughts that some of our players are less supportive or enthusiastic about playing for Yorkshire than others, including all of those in international squads. It s frustrating when the ECB mess them and us about and seem incapable of arranging fixture lists which take more account of counties and their supporters. The coming three months will put more pressure on our county squad but I am hopeful that we will do better in the CC than the last two matches and that we will have more to cheer about, including the further development of some of our younger players.


 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: Team in decline

July 2 2017, 8:04 AM 

The only factor which can realistically be addressed is the schedule, and in fairness to the ECB, they are trying different schedules every season at the moment - eventually they will stumble upon the right formula. Alex mentions central contracts being unsustainable - how exactly? They've been in place for nearly twenty years now and overall they've been a big success. They provide a great incentive to county players to work hard, improve their game and be ambitious because there is suitable reward for doing so. In that sense they encourage and promote excellence. Central contracts also free up funds at counties for developing more young players, which is how it's worked at Yorkshire. In fact, Yorkshire is probably the best example of the central contracts system working exactly as it should do. The system is certainly misused from time to time, but it's here to stay and rightly so.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Team in decline

July 2 2017, 8:48 AM 

If Gary Ballance bats to his potential for England it could be the case that Yorkshire will be without their 3 premier batsmen, not to mention their Captain, for many seasons to come.

This will leave us with more than our right arm tied behind our back but our left arm too when it comes to competing in the CC.

In my view their should be a mechanism to allow any team thus denuded of their resources to at least recruit and play a second overseas player in the CC.

As this is an unlikely scenario I think MM should be seriously looking at going down the Kolpak route for one seriously good batsman, if one is available for next season.

The issue around the 3 other players involved in red ball may well have peaked with so many good young players coming through.

 
 
Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Team in decline

July 2 2017, 8:56 AM 

Warwickshire are a team in decline. There's little comparison between their championship performance and ours. Similarly their age profile and ours is not the same. Yorkshire are a team underperforming, which is not the same thing.

As far as points made are concerned, my feelings are:

There is a genuine concern about our opening partnership, but the two players are division 1 openers of some quality. The answer lies in getting them back to form, not discarding them, or 'motivating' them with a spell in the seconds, unless that achieves the return to form required, which I don't think it will.

The middle order without England players is bound to be a problem. Jack Leaning, despite his 100 at Old Trafford, is just about the one first team regular whose fundamental quality is in doubt. As others have said, still a make or break season for him. Handscomb starting to deliver fully, a couple of typical Bres performances, an effective entry to the team from Brook and/or TKC, would all make a lot of difference.

The bowling is ageing certainly, but Coad and Fisher are looking capable of maintaining standards into the future.

I don't think we have 'players who don't want to play for Yorkshire'. There may be difficult individual moments - and one we're all thinking of when this accusation crops up - but a player who didn't want to play for us would have left. They'd find counties easily enough. And the management would probably have encouraged them to go.

And lastly, despite my anger at some ECB decisions, a serious falling out with them would be a disaster. Playing for England is the players' greatest ambition. They're not going to be happy if their employer is negative about that. Some of the suggestions made, which would amount to a declaration of war, would lead to a player exodus.

 
 
risep
(Login risep)

Re: Team in decline

July 2 2017, 10:53 AM 

Re the Kolpak route just brought up in this important discussion.
Younus Khan recently retired from all in international cricket. He's already played for Yorkshire, knows the ropes, the players, the pitches and although he may not improve the fielding, can dominate bowling attacks, especially in the CC.
Wile age is against him (as with most of us) he could be a suitable stopgap for a couple of seasons? After all he's probably about the same age as Sangakkara......

 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: Team in decline

July 2 2017, 11:39 AM 

Whilst I agree that arrangement of fixtures is not simple, it could be improved. For example, the last round of CC matches started last Monday until Thursday. The first test starts on Thursday, so why could the next round not have started on Saturday until Tuesday? This would have given supporters two weekend days of cricket. The teams in the one day final could have been allowed to start Sunday or Monday or the Final could have been arranged as highlight for September, as used to be the case.
It seems to me that ECB does not have much regard for teams and supporters of counties who have many international players.


    
This message has been edited by Alibor2 on Jul 2, 2017 12:03 PM


 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Team in decline

July 2 2017, 1:29 PM 

I suspect we can actually improve the relationship with the ECB by standing up to them. If the ECB tell us a player is free to play in the IPL in a particular period but not free to play for Yorkshire, then we should challenge them over that. I doubt if the sky will really fall in.

 
 
East Coast Type
(Login EastCoastType)

Re: Team in decline

July 2 2017, 1:51 PM 

I think certain England cricketers have a responsibility as well regarding the way the game is being run. For example, Root should have wanted to and insisted on him and Jonny playing in the Lords match last September. He is an intelligent man so will have recognized that the integrity of the first class competition was being damaged by the ECB's actions - which, for me, was a much more important issue of whether we won it or not. He, more than any other player, has the power dictate to the ECB - he has more power vis-a-vis the ECB than any of the counties. It wouldn't have killed him to play the match - he could have even had a big slice of his fielding time covered by the 12th man.

 
 
 
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