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Guest
(Login jerryberry55)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 10 2017, 5:01 PM 

Its a simple concept which none of you appear to get.

Money comes from TV. Sure you can get that. Simple enough so far.

TV money goes to the ECB and this props up both the counties and recreational game. Again simple concept so hope I've not lost anyone.

Indian TV money makes up a massive percentage of ECB income on a 4 yearly basis. It dwarfs Ashes TV income. Given the way Indian cricket is going there is less interest in Test Match cricket so the TV companies are willing to pay less. This is leaving the ECB with a potential funding gap.

This means the ECB need to raise more money so we get back to the starting point, money comes from TV. So the TV channels have been asked for what will they pay more money.

The answer is they want an English version of the Big Bash essentially. Fewer teams, shorter tournament etc. Despite what you think of the current T20 blast it has no appeal to the TV companies. Too many games, too many teams, too many meaningless matches in tinpot grounds by the end of the group stages.

Give the people what they want. People turn up to T20 like we saws Friday and TV companies want a different competition. Its the only answer or cricket risks imploding.

Add in all the benefit of free to air coverage and the game is going to grow as more people will see it and more will play it and then this will feed back into the county structure and keep the 4 day game going.

We might lose 10k crowds for Yorkshire vs Notts in the blast in 2020 as it will be earlier in the year but the competition will continue for the 18 counties, people will still attend because they want to watch T20 cricket and the game will grow because of the new competition.

Sky are paying over a billion quid for the rights over 5 years. the previous deal was 260m over 4. That is a huge investment by them and no way will they let it fail which is only going to be a big help to cricket continuing to grow and thrive.

Continue as we are and the Indian TV money dropping and counties struggling financially and they wont be able to put on nights like we had at Headingley on Friday with that kind of quality.

 
 
Guest
(Login sooty-yorkie1)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 10 2017, 5:22 PM 

Thanks, but I think we're aware money, and large quantities of it, come from the tv companies.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 10 2017, 6:44 PM 

I do think that quite a few of us suspect that the new T20 competition is aimed primarily at the Indian TV market. Sky have paid a lot of money and I am sure they intend to get a large part of it back by sales to Indian TV.

I can't find the reference but I read an article outlining the matches would be played in the late afternoon UK time, prime time evening in India, which I think gives it away.

While I do respect the fact that the ECB need a revenue stream to finance their vision of English cricket I cannot respect the way they have gone about it.

Of course they won't grumble if they can fill the grounds with families and others who don't normally go to watch cricket but that is purely a peripheral reason for the new competition.

Any collateral damage to the present competition and to County Cricket in general seems to be a price worth paying in their view.


 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 10 2017, 6:59 PM 

Thank you jerryberry for your enlightening and instructive post.
I've learned something - about what you think and how you think.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Shock/Horror

July 10 2017, 7:01 PM 

That is interesting Geoff re the timings.

Early evening for us? Does that mean 4pm/5pm start? Rush hr traffic? To early for school kids and parents to get there? Would it eliminate families attending? How far in front are India (Delhi is 5 and 1/2 hrs in front, but not everywhere in India is the same)? With a 7pm start and 10pm finish, it would be 3.30 in the morning before any match played here finished in Delhi. Surely not peak viewing time in India.

I think most of us realise that the new comp is being set up purely for the expected income streams. But why do we have to dilute the existing competitions. CC down to 14 from 16 this year, with probably more cuts to come. They have also already announced that the existing T20 comp will be reduced to 10 games from 14 in 2020, and the 50 over comp becomes a second X1 comp in 2020, as it will be run simultaneously with the city based T20 comp.


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Jul 10, 2017 8:40 PM


 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 10 2017, 7:16 PM 

Problem with getting old, I know I read it on-line and I think it mentioned a start as early as 4pm. It was a press statement from the ECB I'm pretty sure.

I searched for the article a few days later but couldn't find it.

I hope I'm not getting a complex!

I know there are aliens out there trying to poison our minds but they haven't got me, honest.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Shock/Horror

July 10 2017, 7:26 PM 

IF the matches are going to be 4pm starts, then that would have a massive impact on attendances.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 10 2017, 7:58 PM 

This isn't where I read it but this is from the Chronicle explaining the new league to Durham fans.

Quote:

Will matches be played on a Friday night?

Not often. A couple of years ago the ECB got all excited about Friday night games but in typical cricket fashion it’s been tried for a bit and now we’re onto something else. No doubt the new format will change again in 2023 for the new TV deal.

Games will now be played in a 38-day block during the school summer holidays. Durham chairman Sir Ian Botham has even talked about ditching the post-work start times for 4pm games.

Unquote.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Shock/Horror

July 12 2017, 9:39 PM 

19500 sell-out on Friday at OT. The biggest crowd, outside London, ever for a T20 match.

Wonder if they will get 1/2 that amount in 2020 when Manchester plays Leeds!!!


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Jul 12, 2017 9:42 PM


 
 
East Coast Type
(Login EastCoastType)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 1:27 PM 

Jerry Berry presents a very logical argument above. I had a number of thoughts when reading it, including the observation that increased revenue does not necessarily mean increased profitability in 'talent' businesses.

The final pre-Sky deal for football (with ITV) was £47 million for four years (about 500k each club per year). It has increased to billions in the 25 years since, yet profitability for many clubs has been elusive, some are almost ruined and in 15/16 the top flight as a whole again made a loss. While Deloitte sees better days going forward, the main reason for the losses has been, of course, wage growth. Between 2008 and 2013, a staggering 99% of revenue growth was accounted for by wage growth alone.

There was a slight smell of desperation in the announcement of the city-based tournament the other month - it sounded a surprisingly underwhelming proposition - which will have raised the eyebrows of the player agents within cricket.


 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 2:16 PM 

Yes, the issue is that all the new revenue will largely be needed to buy in the expensive t20 clowns for the new circus in town and most will be overseas with a few Indian trundlers included to appeal to the Tv viewers in Delhi and Mumbai. Not everyone can have a Kohli or a Rohit Sharma.

How much gets to the counties and to young English players is the issue for me as surely we want our players qualified for England to benefit and go on to the national stage?

Would the Indian viewer be bothered about a Roses match in t20 with Root and Bairstow v Buttler and Anderson if there is no Indian batsman to see?

Explains why I don't watch too much of the IPL....

 
 
Tom
(Login whiterosetom)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 2:34 PM 

Judging by social media the Indian fans are very much bothered about Root and Bairstow, ThirdUmp. They're still superstars in their main sport and they have a huge fan base over there.

They're probably less concerned about whether they're both playing together for Yorkshire or against eachother for the London Lions and Glasgow Gladiators though.


    
This message has been edited by whiterosetom on Jul 13, 2017 2:35 PM


 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 3:01 PM 

It's going to need more than those on social media to watch though in order to recoup the layout.

But agree who they play for may be immaterial to the Indian population but very material to me and you!

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 3:03 PM 

Merely describing jerryberry's argument as "logical" doesn't make it so. To confront just one of the more glaring "leaps" of logic, consider the following sentence:

"Add in all the benefit of free to air coverage and the game is going to grow as more people will see it and more will play it and then this will feed back into the county structure and keep the 4 day game going."

This skims over the central problem of the whole debate: the tension between T20 and "proper" cricket. Would the end-point of this development be as jerryberry describes it or would it result in what Amrit Mathur has described as "a complete takeover of domestic cricket by T20 cricket, with the undermining and devaluing of first-class cricket" ("How good is Indian Premier League cricket for cricket?", Hindustan Times, 4 May 2017)?

That has to be a key question, but it is simply sidestepped. It is also not clear what is meant by county cricket "imploding".



The full text of Mathur's article is here:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/ipl-2017/ipl-must-pass-rahul-dravid-s-test-of-lifting-indian-game-opinion/story-HdlR3UqDXzU6YZGd06DnrN.html


    
This message has been edited by Dewsburian on Jul 13, 2017 3:41 PM


 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 4:22 PM 

ThirdUmpire --- "Would the Indian viewer be bothered about a Roses match in t20 with Root and Bairstow v Buttler and Anderson if there is no Indian batsman to see?

None of the test players will be playing in the city based franchise comp. The ECB have already stated that it will be held at the same time as test matches.

Apart from that, IF they were available, they may well be playing for a completely different franchise as Surrey or Birmingham may have snapped them up first. In fact its very unlikely that Root & Bairstow will be playing for Leeds, or Buttler & Anderson playing for Manchester. We could also have a situation where Liam Plunkett, or one of the other Yorkshire players, hits the winning run for Nottingham against Leeds, and that would really **** me off. That also leads to another question, who are they contracted to, us for 4 months of the season, someone else for the other month??


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Jul 13, 2017 4:31 PM


 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 4:33 PM 

But it's three years away Stu and by then the money from a t20 franchise in the uk may appeal more than an ecb central contract for some in terms of salary and playing time. Root will be 29 but knackered from globe trotting in winters with England. Others like the bowlers such as Stokes may feel the four over stint is preferable to 25 overs a day.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 4:45 PM 

Good Point, TU, and probably true, as money seems to be the main driver at the moment for most cricketers.



    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Jul 13, 2017 4:48 PM


 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 6:17 PM 

Will there even be Manchester & Leeds franchises? London could have 3 (Lords, Oval & London Stadium). Edgbaston is a shoe in as probably are Rose Bowl & Cardiff. That leaves 2 between Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham & Chester Let Street (+ Bristol & Taunton)

 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 6:18 PM 

Will there even be Manchester & Leeds franchises? London could have 3 (Lords, Oval & London Stadium). Edgbaston is a shoe in as probably are Rose Bowl & Cardiff. That leaves 2 between Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham & Chester Let Street (+ Bristol & Taunton)

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Shock/Horror

July 13 2017, 6:22 PM 

Of course there will be. Otherwise your split below is very southern skewed and for all the counties to have agr ed to it there has to be some regional presence throughout the country.

Three in London is too daft even for the ECB

 
 
 
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