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2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017 at 3:24 AM

WRF  (Premier Login AlexRoberts)
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Jul 14-18, 2017 - 2nd Test at Trent Bridge, Nottingham

ENGLAND from: Joe Root (capt, Yorkshire), Alastair Cook (Essex), Keaton Jennings (Durham), Gary Ballance (Yorkshire), Jonny Bairstow (wkt) (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Liam Dawson (Hampshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Mark Wood (Durham), James Anderson (Lancashire), Toby Roland-Jones| (Middlesex)

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Guest
(Login ExiledinNotts)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 8:05 AM 

We are going to Trent Bridge today for this, hope England bat first.

 
 
Tom
(Login whiterosetom)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 8:13 AM 

Looking more overcast for this test. I think Broad and Anderson will do some damage here. Apparently there's a bit of green in the pitch too.

I don't mind who bats first as long as I get to see plenty of Joe, Jonny and Gary over the weekend while i'm not working. Ballance could do with a big score.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 8:39 AM 

Unchanged team for England.

I think picking Dawson as a third all-rounder is being greedy.

We should be looking to give the chance to an extra specialist batsman.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 8:53 AM 

An extra specialist batsman? We already have 7, why would we need an 8th?

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 9:02 AM 

7 specialist batsmen??

I make it 4, plus 4 all rounders in Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, & Dawson.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 9:31 AM 

If Stokes and Ali didn't bowl and Bairstow didn't keep wicket they'd all still get in the team as batsmen, that's why I'd class them as specialist batsmen.

If we need a batsman coming in at 8 then the top 7 haven't done their job! I'd personally like us to try and find an out and out spin bowler. With a fully fit team of Ali and 7, Woakes at 8, Broad at 9 I'd hope we'd be able to give a run to someone who's sole purpose it is to bowl spin.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 9:31 AM 

Thanks for your usual reaction EYT.

Thanks for your more considered reaction Stu.

If Root or Cook were to break a finger, I hope it doesn't happen, I think we are vulnerable and we need to identify who might come in.



    
This message has been edited by Coastalview on Jul 14, 2017 9:37 AM


 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 9:38 AM 

Put it this way...of our top 8 batsmen, seven either have, or could, play the role of specialist batsman for England, if they didn't have the bowling or wicket-keeping skill as well. Bairstow has played as a specialist batsman, so has Ali, making at least one hundred at the top of the order; and Stokes would probably be picked as such, even if unable to bowl at all. Dawson plays that role, plus occasional spin, for Hampshire.

The question is...have we compromised the quality of the bowling / wicket-keeping by requiring most of them to bat?

I would say, in Ali's case - no, we haven't. He's at least as good as most of the off-spinners down the years, the Hemmings and Miller and Emburey. In Bairstow's case, well, he had a pretty good game with the gloves at Lord's, even if he's no Knott or Taylor or Russell (or Binks).

Stokes, as 4th seamer, is wxcellent, even if he doesn't bowl as well as Botham or Flintoff. Compare the Barry Knight and Ealham and Pringle, of yesteryear! There is no comparison.

Dawson, I would suggest, is a strange selection. I don't get it at all. When you've got all these all-rounders, this is the perfect time to pick a specialist spinner, even one who can't bat. Jack Leach's name screams at you.

I shall be present at my favourite Test venue on Saturday and Sunday.


    
This message has been edited by DaveMorton on Jul 14, 2017 9:39 AM


 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 9:41 AM 

I guess its really about the quality of the all rounders - are they good enough to be in the side as batsmen. You wouldn't say that a South African side with Kallis in the top six only had five specialist batsmen because Kallis also turned his arm over - his batting average was in the mid 50s after all.

In the same vein, although Bairstow keeps wicket, his test average of near 40 (and in the last year or so much higher than that) suggests that he would get into the side as a batsman. I am not sure the same applies to the other three however. Moeen certainly gets into the side now on current form. Stokes plays brilliant innings but averages in the mid 30s. Dawson is there as a bowler primarily, yet he regards himself as a batsman who bowls a bit. Interesting when you consider that his first class batting average is the same as Rashid's, and Rashid would always say that he was a bowler first and foremost.


 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 9:42 AM 

I think my explanation is more than considered, giving my reasons why our 7 specialist batsmen are more than enough and my belief we need to try find a specialist spinner.
I don't believe you can possibly pick any team worrying a batsman might break a finger during it.


 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 9:49 AM 

Hasn't Moeen done enough to be classed as the specialist spinner?

Job done we've found him. And he can bat...

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 10:13 AM 

I think we are all being a bit pedantic, and it is our personal judgement whether an all rounder is a specialist batsman or not. I class a specialist batsman as one who only bats, but others do not, which I suppose using my own criteria makes Root and Jennings all rounders.

So do we have just 2 specialist batsmen, 4, or 7 as some suggest.

Either way I think we do not need 4 seamers and two spinners, surely 4 seamers and 1 spinner is sufficient, unless it is really going to turn, then 3 seamers and 2 spinners will be needed. But that is maybe a seperate argument.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 10:16 AM 

Alastair Cook has a test wicket don't forget, we're down to one specialist now! happy.gif

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 3:31 PM 

Joe Root's fascination with Liam Dawson continues to baffle me, can anyone else give an explanation?

 
 
Steve C
(Login stevecowton)
Assistant Moderator

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 3:55 PM 

..he doesn't get on with Adil Rashid.....?

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 4:10 PM 

Bizarre selection, assume they thought they would have someone who could hold up an end. Not happening at this level. Certainly don't think Rashid is the answer in England either.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 4:58 PM 

Top catch down leg side by the bloke who can't keep wicket apparently.

We have a funny old team. A keeper who people think cant keep, a front line spinner with a ten-few who people think isn't the number one spinner and a second spinner picked to provide stability and depth in batting who goes around the ground and gets a pair.

Just as well we don't pick our full strength side

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 14 2017, 6:19 PM 

Pretty obvious that JB has put in a lot of time to his wicket keeping and he can now considered an excellent keeper, in my opinion.

I don't slavishly listen or watch every ball but I haven't heard the various pundits doubt his abilities lately.

Reference my earlier post about the broken finger, my point was who would be selected to replace one of them if they were to miss the rest of the series.

We could do with giving Malan or a.n other a chance to stake a claim, not least for the Ashes squad.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 15 2017, 9:22 AM 

I don't quite see enough Yorkshire games to be certain of this, but my impression of JB when he first came into the team as wicket-keeper was that he didn't miss much when he was standing back. It was standing up where he struggled. And that included his work around the stumps in general, which often made him look generally "untidy".
Later, and particularly with England, he seemed to miss chances when standing back - or not even move in some instances - which suggests to me that he was too tense. Wicket-keeping is an odd activity in that you have to concentrate on every ball and yet be entirely relaxed. If you're not relaxed, the ball just doesn't sink into the gloves properly (I really, really do know this and have the odd bent finger to remind me of it).
I've commented before that when Jonny "returned" from England to the Yorkshire team at Edgbaston a few years ago, he suddenly seemed a great deal happier. He looks happy and relaxed with England now. I wonder if Root's captaincy has been the trigger.

 
 
 
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