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Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 8:32 AM 

Poor old Gary is on a hiding to nothing it seems.

Watched the highlights last night and I thought he batted better than anyone else except Root. Certainly the dismissals of Ali, Cook, Stokes and even Bairstow were softer than his.

Unfortunately, like the Bairstow keeping problems of last year, which has now hopefully been laid to rest, the pundits have their story and will write it anyway. It could be worse, he does have Dawson to share the column inches with.

Although I would dearly love to have him back captaining Yorkshire I for one hope he makes a decent score in the second innings and cements his place over the rest of the series.

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 8:58 AM 

Yes, you've got to hope for Gary that he plays a match saving, or at least face saving innings. He's unlikely to get another chance. The most likely outcome is that he finishes up like Mark Ramprakash, scoring runs all over the place without the selectors paying the slightest attention. And of course, for us rather than him, that's the ideal outcome.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 9:23 AM 

Dobell made a good point that whilst his technique may make him vulnerable to one type if delivery and particular modes of dismissal, he doesn't get caught in the slips as often. I If he had been out caught in the slips driving off the front foot he wouldn't be as conspicuous.

 
 
Old Feller
(Login Old_Feller2)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 11:03 AM 

Whilst I understand some of the criticism of Ballance why are Jennings, Dawson & Wood not coming in for similar if not more severe criticism?
I have to say that If Liam Dawson is the answer I am flummoxed as to what is the question.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 11:12 AM 

Cricket Writers on tv this morning seemed to mention a dozen options.

Bell Drummond, Clarke Westley Lawrence Hameed Malan Vince Hales Lyth Robson Burns Duckett but it's funny how a bloke with two double tons and a decent left arm spun option is never mentioned as he's deemed a bit unfit. Samit Patel must wonder how on earth Daeson is ahead of him at the momrnt

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 11:23 AM 

The options are certainly there -Stoneman can be added to that list.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 12:23 PM 

I agree that Gary is becoming the scapegoat. They play him in the wrong position and he, unsuprisingly, fails, then there are calls for him to be dropped, although he was the second best player in the England innings. Other players in the team also fail to perform, but no mention of them losing there place. Why not play Gary at 5, drop Dawson and bring Stoneman in at 3. Do England really need 4 seamers and two spinners plus the occasional spin of Joe.


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Jul 16, 2017 12:23 PM


 
 
Jay
(Login overman8)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 2:29 PM 

I agree Ballance is coming under some unfair scrutinity, particularly when considering that Jennings, Dawson, Cook and Wood have all been ineffective.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 4:06 PM 

I would certainly go for either Stoneman or Malan at 3, Root 4, Ballance 5 etc.

It's probably too early to tell but Bairstow's batting may, perfectly understandably, have dropped off a bit from last years high as his keeping has improved.

Depending on the pitch drop one of the bowlers, Dawson in this case.

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 16 2017, 4:54 PM 

You would imagine Woakes will come straight back in once fit, presumably for Dawson or Wood.

 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 8:26 AM 

The formula of Stokes at six, Bairstow at seven and Ali at eight has worked excellently in the past and, in my view, should be returned to.
Six specialist bowlers is one too many. I have a high regard for Dawson, who is a splendid county cricketer but he ought not to be in the side.
The best way to retain a second spinning option whilst adding an extra specialist batsman to the team would be to select Patel.

Currently, my preferred top order would be: Jennings, Cook, Root, Ballance, Patel followed by Stokes, Bairstow and Ali.

Though things may change quite rapidly in the coming months, I would supplement this eight players with Woakes, Broad and Anderson.

If Woakes continues to be unavailable then, for the time being, I would revert to Finn.

Winter tourists - all the above plus Wood, Porter, Stoneman and Foakes.

 
 
Tom
(Login whiterosetom)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 10:50 AM 

We all know Cook can stick around, and Root is class but is anyone else capable of the attritional stuff? England could do with an Amla type batsman right now.

 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 11:31 AM 

Jennings and Dawson must be left out of squad for next tests. Stoneman should come in as opener followed by Malan, Root, Ballance, Bairstow, Ali, Stokes, Broad, Wood and Anderson. If extra spinner is needed then Rashid should be included in 12.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 11:43 AM 

Need the man Chris Woakes back fit.

Failures again for Jennings and Ballance. Once they ditch Dawson, three batting spots up for grabs. What a mess.

 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 11:52 AM 

Yes, it looks as though we will get our captain back after another failure. They must strengthen the top order before the Winter with players who play the new ball well and avoid three left handers at start.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 12:32 PM 

Yes we must drop half the team and replace them with others who are just as poor at this level.

In danger of a return to the 80s and 90s with knee jerk panic selections, inconsistent selections and 30 players in a series.

I agree Dawson is just a wrong pick but Jennings and Ballance were both picked on merit either from recent series in India or county form. You need to give them more than two games and as I'd replace Dawson with a batsman I'm struggling to think of three obvious replacements.

Stoneman at 3 and Ballance to 5 with Dawson dropping out and then decide if Wiskes or TRJ replaces Wood by rotation in seam attack. Rested not dropped as they say.

Best batsman to bat all day still there but a few months back the other bloke you fancied for that role was Hameed and he can't buy a run this season and the t20 month is hardly going to help him find form. Now is the time for a lions match for county four day players never going to get a t20 gig. They can keep their eye in for their preferred format against decent opposition.

Ideal for Hameed Lees Brooks etc

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 12:39 PM 

You've got Ballance and Jennings as nailed on. Whereas Woakes would be in a battle with TRJ to rotate with Wood. Laughable, Woakes is a cert when fit.

Everyone fit you would think England have 8 guarantees.

Cook
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson.

Hence 3 batting spots up for grabs. They have far from solved this issue.



    
This message has been edited by Dwight_Schrute on Jul 17, 2017 12:48 PM


 
 
Steve C
(Login stevecowton)
Assistant Moderator

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 12:46 PM 

72 for 4.
Its disappointing but i think from here we'll need to settle for the draw...

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 1:36 PM 

For me, Stoneman at 3, Ballance to 5, & Dawson out. Woakes back in for Wood when fit.

If Ballance keeps failing at 5 then look to bring someone in for him. Similarly with Jennings. No idea who, as there are several batsmen who look a million dollars at county level, but can`t buy a run in the test arena.

I believe Jennings was dropped first ball in his first test then got a century (don`t quote me on that, as may not be correct). Without that let-off, he would have had single figure scores in his every test innings bar one in the last test, so not exactly setting the world alight, but needs a few more chances.


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Jul 17, 2017 1:50 PM


 
 
Fraisse10
(Login Fraisse10)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs South Africa at Trent Bridge (Match Thread)

July 17 2017, 1:50 PM 

Bairstow showing no cricket brain or application whatsoever.

 
 
 
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