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Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 18 2017 at 4:08 PM
Lew  (Login Lewis_116)

 
Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?

 
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Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 18 2017, 4:25 PM 

Stoneman or Westley look likely to be the replacements for Dawson & Ballance for the next test, according to Bayliss.

From cricinfo

"......Surrey's Mark Stoneman is the most likely replacement. Trevor Bayliss, the England coach, admitted after Trent Bridge that Stoneman and Essex's Tom Westley had been discussed as options ahead of the series and should be considered "on the edge" of the team........"

Westley would be my choice, wearing my Yorkshire hat, then he misses the match at Scarborough against us.

Without the YCC cap on, Stoneman would be my choice of the two.

Lots to choose from, and they all look like a million dollars in CC, but look completely clueless when pulling on the England shirt and going up a level.


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Jul 18, 2017 4:28 PM


 
 
l
(Login legglance)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 18 2017, 4:37 PM 

There's certainly a dearth of CLASS batting talent with the ability to knuckle down and grind out an innings.There are plenty of 1/2 season wonders, plenty of hype from ill informed commentators who see very little County cricket and latch onto the current flavour of the month and over hype them.

Whether of not they then begin to believe their own publicity is moot but the evidence is that very few progress to real, top class,consistent status so that would be the case for me.

As a traditionalist the curtailment of 'proper' cricket, the ever changing emphasis by the ECB to promote and develop the one day and T20 stuff, at the expense of 4 day cricket, is reaping it's own reward in terms of test players.

To a degree bowling is similar whatever the format, take wickets or contain.

Batting is not and this mantra of "that's the way we play" is nonsensical, immature and short sighted.The fact that it seems to be condoned by Bayliss et al only serves to perpetuate the myth that it's OK to play like that.

Well,as we saw yesterday and on many other occasions, it's far from alright. Do the ECB think the crowd would have left early in droves yesterday were England to finish on 150 -3 at the end of the day?

Of course they wouldn't but maybe, just maybe, that audience are not the one the ECB is bothered about.


 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 18 2017, 6:46 PM 

I don't think it is only one thing but could it be that with tools such as super slow motion and the incredible close up pictures they can get nowadays that the analysts are getting better at pin pointing any weakness in batting technique.

Sky seem only too happy to draw attention to any possible defect of new England players and only the very best are able to change their technique after being found out.

 
 
twenty2guns
(Login twenty2guns)

Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 18 2017, 7:08 PM 

In short, the answer is yes.

As soon as there's any assistance in a wicket, for seamers or spinners, wickets start to tumble. Batsmen don't have the ability, or inclination, to try and battle through a difficult period. The only answer they have is to hit out, which may come off now and again, against county bowlers, but not against an international bowling attack.

How often do you see an innings like Lyth's 100 against Lancashire earlier this season, I'm not, for one moment, suggesting that Lyth be recalled to the Test Team.

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 18 2017, 7:37 PM 

I can name plenty of batsmen in county cricket who can build a test match innings: Sangakkara, Chanderpaul, Collingwood, Trott, Trescothick.....oh, hang on 😉

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 19 2017, 9:00 AM 

Which says experience is needed for tests rather than youthful promise.

Hence Malan or Stoneman rather than Clarke or Hameed....

 
 
Guest
(Login sooty-yorkie1)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 19 2017, 9:07 AM 

It'll be interesting to see the results from the rest of the summer before worrying too much about any national batting problems. I'm not sure I heard too many complaints post Lords nor too many if we win the next game.

Reading a report on cricinfo that seemed to suggest yo-yo results in test match series were becoming the norm. One team would win by a large margin then lose by one in the next.

 
 
East Coast Type
(Login EastCoastType)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 19 2017, 9:44 AM 

Not sure that is true, Sooty. England collapsed in the second innings and that didn't go without comment. It was also recognized that Root had a couple of lives early on in his 190 in the first innings.

More generally, it has been talked about for some time that Strauss has never been replaced and that 2 or 3 of the top 6 in the order are often passengers. Ballance was thought to have been part of the answer for a year until he faced the top attacks. Jonny's return has been one of the only factors compensating for these problems.

Attempts to play spin in the winter were also noted.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 19 2017, 11:23 AM 

Batting sides have ALWAYS collapsed on tricky pitches, against good bowling. But perhaps, in days gone by, they had more resources at their command, having learned to play on uncovered pitches, and with only one form of the game to master as they grew up.

There is a wealth of batting talent in County Cricket, all the ones mentioned, plus Adam Hose and Liam Livingstone, who have emerged only recently. Obviously we have high hopes for Harry Brook.

But, by marginalising the Championship, by depriving it of its best players, by playing nearly all the games in April, May and Septemmber...the ECB has deprived the young batsmen the chance to learn that particular craft.

I believe it to be deliberate, they want it to fail, Graves, Harrison and Strauss. Then they can introduce a franchise layer of 8 First Class teams and the 18 County Clubs will effectively join the Minor Counties. They're doing it first with T20. 50-over and First Class will follow. You'd better believe it.

 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 19 2017, 11:57 AM 

Dave, I DO believe it.
It's gratifying to know that someone sensible also shares my conspiracy fear.

 
 
Guest
(Login sooty-yorkie1)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 19 2017, 12:00 PM 

ECT, I'm not sure I've seen criticism of the county game though. Criticism of individual players and their performances, yes. But structurally of the game, no.
I think it's too early to start to talk of it, like I said another yoyo performance by both teams and all will be forgotten. A lot of it is knee jerk reaction to fill in column inches. Let's give till the end of the summer before we start chopping and changing and worrying too much .

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 19 2017, 12:31 PM 

Within minutes of the game ending, Nasser Hussain was blaming England's defeat on County Cricket's inability to produce players. I don't remember him claiming the Lord's victory as a triumph of our system.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 19 2017, 12:57 PM 

"Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years."

I'm not sure that's an entirely fair point. Cook and Root went straight into the test side before they'd played much county cricket and probably would have been good enough in any era. When Bairstow was involved with the Lions, he was involved in a sort of "shoot-out" with Stokes and James Taylor. To be fair to him, he more or less won that, but that doesn't mean Stokes isn't a good batsman, whose defence has often looked sound in testing conditions, or that Taylor wouldn't have been if he'd stayed fit and well.
I think the different formats have a lot to answer for. It was hard on the likes of Colin Cowdrey that they might have to finish a county match in Kent one day and be at Old Trafford the next to prepare for a test match (and all before motorways). But at least they were playing substantially the same game when they got there. A batsman facing bowlers around the 85 mph mark is making decisions that are barely conscious. It's not entirely surprising that their brains occasionally slip into "whack it out of the park mode" at entirely the wrong moment. For that reason, I'd have thought the coach should be emphasizing the slower, less attacking, more attritional side of test batting. You don't really need to tell these players to attack because it's what they do naturally - and simply have to do in two formats of the game.


 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

July 19 2017, 1:00 PM 

Dave, I also believe it and it is good to know that someone else agrees with me. I have though given up the fight to preserve the CC and all the comps. as we know it, as Harrison, Strauss, Graves and the rest will kill the county game whatever the true supporters think or do.

 
 
 
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